Harry Was Wrong: Lust Doesn’t Have to Ruin a Platonic Friendship

One of our great myths about men is that lust invariably cancels out empathy.

There are few more famous snippets of film dialogue than this exchange from the 1989 Blly Crystal and Meg Ryan classic, When Harry Met Sally:

Harry: You realize of course that we could never be friends.

Sally: Why not?

Harry: What I’m saying is — and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form — is that men and women can’t be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.

Sally: That’s not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.

Harry: No you don’t.

Sally: Yes I do.

Harry: No you don’t.

Sally: Yes I do.

Harry: You only think you do.

Sally: You say I’m having sex with these men without my knowledge?

Harry: No, what I’m saying is they all want to have sex with you.

Sally: They do not.

Harry: Do too.

Sally: They do not.

Harry: Do too.

Sally: How do you know?

Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.

Sally: So you’re saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?

Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail ‘em too.

♦◊♦

I was a 22-year-old graduate student when the film came out, and I’ve long since lost count of how many heated discussions I’ve had about platonic friendships in which those unforgettable lines were quoted. Most of the arguments (I’ll bet you’ve had a few of these debates yourself) center around the question of whether “Harry” is right that straight men always want to have sex with their female friends.

What gets missed in all this is that Harry and Sally (and most of us) implicitly agree on something: sexual desire makes platonic friendship impossible. Sally denies her male friends all want to have sex with her; Harry insists that they do. But in the film—and, unfortunately, all too often in real life—no one asks the most important question of all: why can’t you be friends with someone to whom you’re attracted?

In the modern world we expect men and women who are in long-term romantic relationships to be friends. Husbands and wives will often say affectionately of their spouses, “We’re not just married to each other, but we’re good friends.” That’s part of our contemporary ideal of companionate marriage. It’s evident to all that men can be friends with the women with whom they are currently sleeping.

But what about a heterosexual man and woman who’ve never been sexual with each other? Conventional wisdom claims their friendship will only work when neither lusts after (or has a crush upon) the other. Since, as Harry says, men “pretty much want to nail” every woman they know, this makes friendship impossible.

We assume that male sexual desire is so powerful that it overrides everything else, including friendship.

We assume that male sexual desire is so powerful that it overrides everything else, including friendship. One of our great myths about men is that lust invariably cancels out empathy. Call it the sexual equivalent of being unable to walk and chew gum at the same time: Harry, Sally, and too many of the rest of us were raised to believe that men can’t experience lust and practice non-sexual friendship simultaneously.

The truth is that men and women alike are capable of being platonic friends with someone to whom they are powerfully attracted. That’s true regardless of the reasons why someone can’t act on his or her desires. Perhaps it’s because the attraction is one-sided, or perhaps it’s because one or both of the friends are in monogamous relationships with other people. Sometimes the attraction is openly acknowledged, more often it’s something of which both are aware but about which there isn’t necessarily much need to speak.

There are a couple of keys to making a platonic friendship work despite the presence of sexual attraction. First off, it helps to demythologize sexual desire. Too many of us speak about attraction as if it were an irresistible and destructive force, like a tornado or a tsunami. If you’ve genuinely fallen in love with a buddy who considers you “just” a friend, that’s one thing. But if all that’s happened is that you find yourself sexually attracted to someone who isn’t attracted to you (or isn’t your significant other), it’s worth saying so what? We’re hardwired to be sexual creatures. But we’re also equipped with the ability to “override” those desires for a host of other reasons—including preserving friendship.

Too many of us speak about attraction as if it were an irresistible and destructive force, like a tornado or a tsunami.

Second of all, we need to remember that most of us are taught to sexualize emotional intimacy. We get close to someone of the opposite sex (assuming we’re straight or bi), and we find ourselves fantasizing about them. But while some of what we’re experiencing may be a natural physical reaction, some of it is the result of our cultural programming that tells us that intimacy must always be sexualized or romanticized. What often happens is that an initial “flare” of sexual interest quickly diminishes—if we give the relationship time to grow.

I know that my life would be infinitely poorer if I’d limited myself to being friends only with those people to whom I was not in any way attracted and whom I was certain were not the slightest bit sexually drawn to me. This is a particularly important issue for me because I’ve known I was bisexual since my teens, something I wrote about here. One of the things about experiencing sexual desire for both men and women is that I learned early on that if I were only going to be friends with folks to whom I couldn’t possibly be attracted I’d need to limit myself to hanging out with close blood relatives. That doesn’t mean I was attracted to all my friends of either sex, not by a long shot; it did mean that when I was younger, sexual desire was enough of a constant that I learned it really didn’t need to (and I couldn’t afford to let it) get in the way. In time, I realized I could even have a sexual daydream about a platonic friend—and still empathize with them and hear what they were saying to me. Attraction might linger, but I found that if I gave the relationship time, it would often drop to the level of background noise, like the sound of a radio playing at a volume low enough for a conversation to happen.

I saw When Harry Met Sally when it first came out 22 years ago. I remember debating Harry’s words, sure that he was both right in one sense (in my early 20s, I did want to sleep with a lot of my friends) and wrong in another (I was just starting to know that unrequited lust, however real and powerful, did not invariably poison friendship). 1989 was half my lifetime ago, and as the years have passed, I’ve become more and more certain that while Harry wasn’t necessarily wrong about what men want, he was utterly wrong about those wants meant for friendships between men and women.

Interested in a different view from another man? Read Damon Young’s “Platonic Schmetonic”

About Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo Schwyzer has taught history and gender studies at Pasadena City College since 1993, where he developed the college's first courses on Men and Masculinity and Beauty and Body Image. He serves as co-director of the Perfectly Unperfected Project, a campaign to transform young people's attitudes around body image and fashion. Hugo lives with his wife, daughter, and six chinchillas in Los Angeles. Hugo blogs at his website

Comments

  1. Siobhan says:

    I think it’s also important to put desire into context and understand it. I read somewhere else (I think the Daily Telegraph, ugh) where a guy was writing that he wanted to screw every woman he knew AS IF it was an overwhelming urge. But it obviously wasn’t. I know I can’t sit in a meeting, or have a conversation with a member of the opposite sex without speculating on what it would be like. But speculation is not desire. It’s not even fantasy. It’s something the back of the brain does while wondering how much longer this loser is going to keep talking — “and I wonder what he would think if I just pulled his pants down and blew him.”

    We have become so immersed in the message that all sexual thoughts = dirty that it’s easy to confuse the two.

  2. Annika says:

    Harry says, men “pretty much want to nail” every woman they know, this makes friendship impossible.
    –> if that was true, I would have had waaaaay more sex in my live than I actaually had…! ;-)

  3. I totally think it is possible to be friends with someone after having a sexual relationship with them.

    My wife has had a close male friend since junior high. They became friends with benefits when they were about 20 and have maintained that kind of relationship off and on ever since. And they are still good friends, but it never went beyond FWB, even though I am sure they love each other a lot.. Whenever my wife was in a LTR, she would go back to just being friends with him, but as soon as she was single again, they would take up where they left off sexually. He has been married but in an open relationship for over 20 years.

    My wife tells me her friend is one of the best lovers she ever had. And yes, he has a much larger penis than I do; God didn’t use a cookie cutter when he made us and I am definitely average in that department. But I find this a healthy thing and am not threatened that my she has loved this man in one way or another for most of her adult life. In fact, she has my permission to resume a FWB relationship with him any time she wants, and though I know this interests her, it is something she has yet to act on and maybe never will. Like most things in life, it all comes down to timing and opportunity and the choices we make. It is also one of our fantasies to one day have a threesome with him.

    • Hater4Hire says:

      Damn, Edgar. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but it sounds like you are in an awful situation. Your wife is telling you that a “friend” she has had sex with off and on for years is the “one of the best lovers she ever had,” and you’re still cool with her going to him? And you want to be around while he has sex with your wife? You’re nuts, dude. Tell me, why even get married? Honestly, I’d be willing to bet that they are probably still doing it. I feel for you. I really do.

  4. AnonymousDog says:

    I think that once two people have sex, their relationship will be forever changed, whatever it may have been previously. They may remain friends, but the relationship WILL have changed. That’s the issue that you don’t really engage, Hugo, and it’s the thing that people worry about.

  5. Jimmy says:

    Im friends with plenty of women who I would have sex with the moment they asked me to. That doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy spending time hanging out with them and talking to them or that we’re not “real” friends. It also doesn’t mean that I pursue them or show that I’m attracted to them. It just means that I’m attracted to my friends and would sleep with them if it somehow wouldn’t ruin our friendship.

    • Hater4Hire says:

      Bullshit. That’s simply not how it works. You’re telling me that when it is you and one of your female friends, and she is wearing something skimpy, you’re not thinking about having sex with her? You’re probably not “real” friends either. Chances are you get pushed to the back burner when she has a new bro around…or you push her to the back burner when you have another dame around. Would you do that to your boys?

  6. Soullite says:

    The only females friends I have are women that I’ve slept with. I won’t start up a ‘friendship’ with a woman. I might end up there after we hooked up or dated, but I’m not going to start out with a friendship. It isn’t what I want, and I don’t owe her my friendship any more than she owes me sex.

    If I know a woman won’t sleep with me, then I don’t want her to be my friend. That’s the problem with this argument: if you like someone enough to be their friend, but won’t sleep with them, then at some point you made a judgment that they aren’t ‘good enough’ for you. Either they aren’t attractive enough, or they don’t make enough money, or whatever. Why would I want to be friends with someone who didn’t think I was good enough? Why would I want to be friends with someone *I* didn’t think was good enough for me? If you aren’t getting what you want out of a relationship, then leave. Nobody has any right to try to keep you in a situation where you aren’t happy.

    It isn’t just about the male sex drive. I think this argument over-all severely underestimates male pride.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] famed exchange in When Harry Met Sally about the possibilities of male-female nonsexual friendship: Harry Was Wrong: Lust Doesn’t Have to Ruin a Platonic Friendship. [...]

  2. [...] since we’ve discussed sex in the Wednesday Weigh-In. Over the Good Men Project, Hugo Schwyzer challenges the conventional wisdom that you can’t be friends with someone to whom you’re sexually [...]

  3. [...] This is a painful situation. I hope all ends well for you. Good luck.Powered by Yahoo! AnswersDonald asks…In the News….Duct tape anyone?"Anger linked to women's heart problems" – Rueters htt…t problems" – Rueters http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070122/hl_nm/anger_heart_dc It's stuff like this [...]

  4. [...] Point Counterpoint! Here is the other view: Lust Doesn’t Have to Ruin A Platonic Friendship [...]

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