“Men often make a mistake by thinking that they are in control over their lives, but upon closer inspection they realize they gave that up as soon as they conformed to society’s rules and expectations of their gender.”
In recent years there has been more and more articles on the state of white, heterosexual men and boys. These articles peaked in 2009-2010 after male unemployment spiked and women officially outpaced men in the workforce. The general question has been “what is going on with boys and men and why are they struggling so much?” (If you are a gay man or man of color, this post relates to you as well, but I imagine that you are facing much more than just this stuff).
(Check out these older posts for a good backstory on the subject: Start with a funny post–Ode to the White Whipped Male by Mark Morford of SFgate. Then read The End of Men, which essentially explores how the balance of power is shifting toward women. And a superb and confronting follow up by Ann Freidman in the American Prospect called “Not the End of Men” where she cites that gender stereotypes are responsible for the man crisis going on).
Is there truth to these articles? What is really going on with men now? Are we still suffering? And finally, if there is merit in the press about boys and men, what do we do about it?
A lot of people have weighed in on this subject. Here are a few perspectives followed up with my own.
This year, in a new book called the Demise of Guys author Phil Zimbardo claims that the reason boys and men are flailing so hard is due to arousal addiction, specifically the rampant overuse of video games and online porn. I can’t argue with this one, especially in younger men. However, these behaviors are symptoms of something deeper.
Experts like Dr. Michael Gurian say the reason men are suffering so much is because boy brains are different than girl brains and schools are designed to support girls learning style more than boys. Thus boys end up lagging behind. According to Gurian, this eventually leads to more men not finishing school thus falling “behind” in nearly every area in life. Gurian’s work makes sense and he’s on to something important.
Then, there’s Warren Farrell, who’s most recent book The Myth of Male Power suggests that boys and men are seriously lagging behind women academically, economically, socially and psychologically. He says that men in 2011 are where women were at in 1961. Doah! In my ongoing coaching and counseling with men and couples, I couldn’t agree more.
I’d like to build upon what Farrell has found. Here’s my take…
The biggest obstacle facing men today
is their own conditioning.
Sadly, instead of growing up to be a healthy human being, men are conditioned to grow up to be “men,” which immediately limits their options to an incredibly narrow range of masculine ideals and behaviors and how the culture defines being a “man.”
The main conditioning influences for boys are: other boys/men, their dads, TV/internet, movies, politics, and sports. Most of which still define masculinity as: Tough, strong, powerful, brave, figure it out on your own, suck it up, man up, stop whining or crying about it and get on with it, lead, don’t be a pussy, don’t act like a girl, don’t act gay, don’t act weak, don’t whine, don’t cry, money equals success, win at all costs, competition is good, be a good man, etc etc.
“don’t act like a girl, don’t act gay,”
So for a boy to survive and not be rejected by his peers and culture, he has to conform.
As these boys grow up into men, they allow someone else define who they are and how to be. As a result, men abandon and disconnect from themselves, which calcifies slowly over time. A common remedy is to medicate away this truth through addictive behaviors such as porn, drugs, alcohol tv, and technology. Men then buy what’s expected of them as their ability to listen to their own inner authority fades and thus the hamster wheel continues.
If a brave man sees through this trap, he can realize that the culture’s version of masculinity doesn’t fit for him and he can then choose to be the author of his way of being. Ironically though, if a man decides to leave the gender box behind, he will face the same gauntlet of judgment he experienced as a boy that put him in the box in the first place—more conditioning. He will be a threat to other men who want him to conform. It’s almost cult-like to remain in the gender box. Most gender-compliant men and women want other men to stay in the man-box club.
So his own conditioning becomes the tie that binds him and his fear of shame, humiliation, or ridicule is the only thing stopping him. Remember, it’s not our fault. We men didn’t choose to adhere to the man-box when we were young, we were subjected to it like cattle being herded into a pen. We had to agree. We conformed in order to avoid more shame or humiliation, and to be accepted.
For a man to even question this conditioning stuff threatens the very foundation he has built his ego around. If he wants break free from it, it will likely be an epic journey. It has been for me.
Where does this gender conditioning start and how did we get here?
I’m with researcher William Pollack who believes it starts in boyhood with the “boy code.” Pollack says the boy code is..
“…a set of rules and expectations that come from outdated and highly dysfunctional gender stereotypes: the idea that boys need to keep their emotions in check; that violence is an acceptable response to emotional upset; that their self-esteem relies on power; and that they must reject any and all signs of “feminine” qualities.”
For boys who never question the boy code, it slowly turns into the “bro code” or the man-box as they enter adulthood. When men stop questioning their own gender conditioning, it keeps them stuck in an immature stage of development that Sociologist Michael Kimmel calls “guyland.” Guyland is when a man refuses to grow up and then behaves in ways so as to not be seen as unmanly, gay, or feminine
The solution?
The way out of the man-box is straightforward and yet, will require more “work.” Men who don’t like the idea of more work won’t be up for it, which is completely understandable. Most men I work with are stressed, maxed out, and have very little room to do more stuff that’s “hard.” Notice the irony here. Men will work hard in their jobs, sports, or manual labor all day long, but when it comes to the deep personal work, men avoid it and many don’t even know it’s an option. It’s actually difficult to see there’s even another way.
So, for the small number of us that want to be our full selves and have full choice on how we want to live, and to be deeply fulfilled, the answer is to do your inner work.
That’s right. The remedy to this lack of freedom that male conditioning engenders is to dive inward through things like high-quality therapy, coaching, being mentored, men’s groups, reading, writing, art, music, wilderness, spirituality, shamanism, Ayahuasca (and other plant medicines), or a modern day rite of passage. Because as we dive inward, we gain new awareness. With new awareness, come more choices. We start to see there’s another way to live outside of the cultural man-box.
This takes courage, for a man will have to take two huge steps:
1) Acknowledge that he veered off course in the first place and quietly agreed to someone else’s version of masculinity. In other words, acknowledge that we are in a box that we didn’t author or design.
For example, once we simply acknowledge that we’ve been in a box created by our culture, we can begin to break free from it. We can also learn to embrace the inner aspects of ourselves that we’ve avoided because our culture shamed us for it. The real us can begin to emerge.
2) Move toward being a more integrated human being. This includes growing ourselves up, dismantling our own internal gender bias, and integrating three main aspects of ourselves:
a. The hurt little boy living inside of us.
b. Our feminine side.
c. Our masculine side.
The inner child
Growing ourselves up is critical to being an adult. Try being a parent. One of the first things we learn as parents is that we aren’t very grown up sometimes. We act like children, throw tantrums, and get our feelings hurt just as easy as kids.
Because most men don’t do inner work (largely because their conditioning won’t allow it), it can be assumed that most men have a hurt little boy inside who often runs the show, specifically in relationships.
By growing ourselves up, we can begin to meet the demands of our life from a place of maturity and responsibility. Rather than shaming each other into “manning up” we simply grow our fragmented self up, one step at a time.
The inner feminine
We all have masculine and feminine traits inside of us. Most normal men have completely cut themselves off from anything that resembles feminine so as to fit into the man-box. Had you told me I had something called an “inner feminine” living inside of me twenty years ago I would have made fun of you.
“Had you told me I had something called an “inner feminine” living inside of me twenty years ago I would have made fun of you.”
Yet once I began to really work on myself in psychotherapy, I eventually saw how my inner feminine held the key to getting out of the gender box that kept me stuck, unsatisfied, and alone.
My work with my inner feminine has allowed me to reclaim all of the sensitivity in me that was shunned as a child. I also realized that I was indeed capable intimacy and relationship. I learned that I was very intuitive, creative, and emotional. By accepting this part of me, I could begin to access the “real me.” My inner work with her is ongoing.
Finally, once we embrace the conscious feminine hidden within we can stop being at war with the feminine on the outside—mother, girlfriend, wife, and even the earth.
The Inner Masculine
By “cleaning up” his masculine side, a man might have to confront real issues about where he learned masculinity—namely his own father and other men who were in positions of power as he grew up.
And if a man can confront the cultural box of masculinity, his own internal masculine files will need to be updated. This includes his relationship to shame, and power/agency.
If we find out we have been in a box, and dive inward, we’ll eventually find shame. Most men bury shame so far down, there’s zero awareness that it’s there.
For example, growing up I got shamed for being a sensitive emotional boy. Because I wasn’t allowed to feel my reaction to being shut down in this way, I buried it deep inside and postured over it. Thus, as an adult, I’ve had to bring my shame into the light. I have had to reconcile that disowned part of me that feels ashamed of who I am. I’m also reclaiming being sensitive and emotional.
Men will also have to confront their own use of power and what power means. Learning how to own our power (trusting that we won’t hurt others) is critical for an adult male. Men typically either abuse power or shy away from it. Each man will have to find out how to wield his sword with mind, heart and soul. Right use of power includes having agency— what William Farrell calls “control over one’s life” or what Nelson Mandela called “being the captain of my soul.”
Men often make a mistake by thinking that they are in control over their lives, but upon closer inspection they realize they gave that up as soon as they conformed to society’s rules and expectations of their gender. This can be seen in men who feel “obligated” to work a certain job or get married and have kids which, in a traditional sense is still the pinnacle of male “success.” However, as Warren Farrell points out, this isn’t true power. True power for a man is about having agency over his life.
Instead most men are a slave to their gender’s expectations of success—house, cars, high paying jobs, marriage and kids. Heterosexual men will even compete for the status and approval of each other by climbing even higher on the gender latter. The classic “American Dream” is one example that keeps men developmentally, psychically, and spiritually way behind women, and men don’t even question it.
Growing ourselves up in these three areas helps us find the way back home to our “real” selves. By doing our inner work, we can learn to be ourselves and no longer get caught up in what other men or women think of us. We can find the authentic expression of us, no matter how masculine or feminine we are and learn to live from that place. This I believe is where we begin to redefine “the masculine.” Rather than try to “act like a man” or “get masculinity right,” we aim instead to be an integrated human being.
“when men listen to someone else define manhood for them, instead of using their own intelligence and being the true author of their own life, they end up buying the culture’s narrow version of masculinity without question”
Remember, when men listen to someone else define manhood for them, instead of using their own intelligence and being the true author of their own life, they end up buying the culture’s narrow version of masculinity without question and then raise their kids that way. And when men and women tell boys that they need to act like a boy or man, we build fences around them like cattle, and then complain when they don’t act like their gender. With this approach adults and kids lose. Ouch.
For brave men who want to be in control of their life, the path will be to transcend the gender box and dismantle their conditioning. This is path to more and more personal choice and freedom.
Finally, as we raise our boys, we owe it to them to be very mindful of the ways we collude with the boy code and the man-box. Let’s aim higher and go deeper by supporting our boys in being who they naturally are.
Join the Raising Boys community here.
photos:
—stevendepolo/Flickr
–fluffisch/Flickr
Best article ever! Thank you Jayson. Your podcast and courses are helping me so much right now. You don’t even know!!! deepest bow of gratitude to you my friend.
It’s worth noting, I think, that my book, The Decline of Men, fits–conceptually and chronologically–between The Myth of Male Power (which was written by a male former feminist) and the End of Men (which was written by a woman). It’s clear from the mostly cogent discussion around Gaddis’s able recap of the state of the modern male that many of the issues I wrote about are still being debated and worked out. But I hope that one thing we can all agree on is that the boxes that men and women live in are cut from the same cardboard. My… Read more »
Thank you for writing this. Men have become worthless and cruel in their efforts to be a man. This needs to change!
As a mom, having raised a daughter and now a son, I think these are all interesting comments. As an over 40 female civil engineer working in a male dominated industry I can see where you are going with this – but I want to point something out. The fallout from the baby boomers. Jason’s comment is key – those men that are from about 40 – 75 are a mess. They have been living a lie (on many levels) and now the next few generations are paying for it. The women in this age group are also a mess.… Read more »
I am 64. I spent much of my life as a Lighting Designer in the same industry as you. I don’t recognise the people you talk about. I ran my own practice with a good balance of male and female designers. I saw no scared women.
I would like to request women stop saying an area is “male dominated”. “Male dominated” just leaves the comment open to the worst possible interpretation (e.g. like men bullying the women to demoralize them and quit so they can have their male privilege in tact). In fact it may well be the case that the men are very respectful to the women who work there and even help them and would not do anything to discourage additional women from applying — but they didn’t and so that’s why it’s staffed by more men than women. So if you mean that… Read more »
Again Jason, you’re spot on here. Our culture sees so much of the external that we lack the emotional maturity to move beyond the mores that define our gender. What I see is that the cycle perpetuates itself since we lack good male role models and mentors. The vacuum is then filled with two dimensional characters we see in movies, TV and video games. Thus the cycle continues. My hope is that messages like this would help break us out of this mold and become more integrated with our emotions.
I agree with many of the posters further up that positive outlook or breaking gender-norms for men is only part of the solution as the problem is much larger, than just the strait-jacket of cultural norms men face. Men also face systemic discrimination in the areas of preventative care, mental health, reproductive rights, domestic violence victim rights, parental rights, education (including many of the networking/mentoring programs that are women only), the prison industrial complex (the gender sentencing disparity disadvantages men almost as much as the racial sentencing disparity disadvantages blacks). The issue is that boys are getting if from all… Read more »
This is a great article, but I’m pretty sure that referring to gender-conforming men as “normal men” is part of the problem.
The so called ‘demise of men’ is patriarchal, femmephobic, gender-policing bullshit, and females coming to dominate the workforce and schools is also bullshit, males are still greatly and suspiciously ‘over acheiving’ in these fields
Consider the statistical data on high school and college graduation rates for males vs. females if you want know the facts. If you’d rather no know, carry on as you were.
I find it interesting that when I mentioned that women should be included in that list some folks preceded to jump all over it (and I think a few even accused me of trying to say it was all women’s fault despite my “as well”). That’s one of my problems when it comes to trying to address the things that harm men. Why is it so taboo to say that when it comes to harming men women are a part of the process too? Are we trying to address all the things that harm men or just the ones that… Read more »
Thanks Danny. This is something I’ve also brought up on occasion in similar discussions, but it seems to be something that people are very reluctant to discuss.
Seems to be a subject that can get even somewhat hardcore feminists to retort to “Boys will be boys”-argument… 😉
It’s not just that. When it comes to analyzing things that harm men, it is often assessed based on the harms it presents to women. It’s almost like if it doesn’t affect women at least tangentially, it’s not a problem.
True John.
Jason, thanks for citing what others are saying and adding your own perspective. Like all big changes going on in society the “man crisis” is really a crisis that everyone faces, both male and female. And yet men face unique challenges. We die sooner and live sicker at every stage of life and the suicide rates for men are 4 to 18 times higher than they are for women and skyrocket as we age. We need to focus both on the personal things we can do to reclaim our true selves and also change the social forces that make it… Read more »
What a bunch of horse hockey…….this article doesn’t / won’t change anything, except to the 15-16 people willing to wade through this nonsense. What this looks like to me is the usual formula – write something controversial, OR, about a subject that appeals to women from a combative standpoint – for the purpose of attracting eyeballs or lining somebody’s pockets. Regular guys don’t care about this stuff. Only some women and gays care. Kaviani sez: “Likewise, there’s a general recalcitrance among males (not just straight ones) to have to do anything. Motivation is key, but the only motivators I’m seeing… Read more »
In sintesis what is the boy crisis? boys are not conforming to societal expectations. What are they doing? the stereotype claims they play videogames and watch porn. Practically they are doing what it pleases them. So are they paying for playing…what I know WoW? well yes. Are they paying for porn? well maybe unless they get it for free. In other words, they use their money for their favorite activities. Are they harming somebody? I dont think so. So whats the problem? beside men non conforming to societal expectations, I dont see anything wrong in what they are doing. They… Read more »
I generally agree with you except that I believe that the educational system has been optimized to support the success of girls to the detriment of boys. I think this must be address to ensure that boys are actually doing what they want instead of settling for the best of what society will give them.
I think in this article, and the related articles mentioned, men are getting very mixed messages about what the problems are and what they’re supposed to do. I don’t think the advice is totally consistent. For example, the _Demise of Guys_ book focuses a lot on the idea that young men today are not finishing school, not trying very hard to get a job, not being as successful as their fathers’ generation. They just don’t have the spark of ambition any more. They aren’t going out there and taking the world by storm. So, they’ve rejected all that hard work… Read more »
wellokaythen, you do have a valid point. if we view folks as broken, they tend to think they need to be fixed and will probably pay someone to help them. true indeed. your confusion makes sense and I so appreciate your perspective here. It seems like you are saying that telling men what’s wrong with them, isn’t very motivating right? that they might already feel a shitload of shame and this could add more shame no? I do hold the high-level view that there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with any of us, however i live in realitive reality where “right action”… Read more »
“If I wrote a book with the thesis that things are actually going pretty well for many men right now,”
You would be very popular in feminist circles.
There is a male sex and a female sex. There is now a cultural marxist idea based on theories (projections) claiming there is such a thing as “gender” in living being — gender being a “social construction.” When we read the words “male gender” we are really reading about a social engineering belief. I’m old enough before the UN/US decided to changed “prison” to “detention center” and “personnel office” to human resources” and “the two sexes” to “the two (or more?) genders.” Also, before this top-down language engineering occurred, I had read Orwell on the use of language by social… Read more »
This is a great idea, but I for one can’t see it getting very far unless both the older and younger cohort is comprised of intellectuals with an interest in rhetoric and/or gender issues (oops, there’s the g-word again).
Yes, a lot of people over 50 could opine over the turn to shmancy fancy nomenclature, but most wouldn’t have a clue where, how, or why it originated. Most culture is like that to most people: things happen to them, they don’t know why, so they shrug and go with it.
Jayson, I am loving your articles and the conversation you are bringing to the table. Your articles really seem to get to the grit of digging your hands in to reach out to boys and men. And I love that. Your leadership in this area is very exciting!
Great article (as usual), my brother. Working with men’s groups, I have found my own challenge to be maintaining faith in many of these beliefs you suppose. So many men I work with are stuck in a victim stance-with conviction-that it keeps them from standing up and facing themselves. It’s a lot to overcome in supporting masculine transformation, yet articles like this give me more juice for the work ahead!
Wow, a lot of attempts to hijack the “crisis” theme and convince us that meddling females and their egghead minions are the only ones doing any conditioning.
Sorry, I must have missed the comments which said that only women are doing any conditioning, can you point them out for me since you have identified a lot of them. All I can see is an original post listing only men as doing any conditioning and people who correctly are pointing out that women in fact do contribute as well to the conditioning of boys/men. So unless you can point out a lot of comments saying that women are the only one conditioning boys/men I have to assume that you either don’t think women contribute to male conditioning at… Read more »
You bet women contribute. But it’s not just women.
Sorry, I’ve read a fair bit of hard right MRA misogyny online and something, somewhere, probably triggered memories of that.
This is really off in places, and a couple of things got me riled. Point by point: “wilderness, spirituality, shamanism, Ayahuasca (and other plant medicines), or a modern day rite of passage.” Shamanism? Really? This is the 21st century. And wasn’t that someone else’s culture in the first place, anyway? Strike one for the New Age – but in my experience it’s but a short step from all that to cults, pseudoscience, and other degenerative nonsense. Not good for you, I think. “addictive behaviors such as porn, drugs, alcohol tv, and technology” And over the hill come the Horsemen of… Read more »
I just want to mention that my boyfriend got into some of that New Agey drum-beating shamanistic men’s movement stuff awhile back and it really helped him work through some issues. He’s a rational, scientific guy, so on one level he knew it was all slightly ridiculous. But from a purely rational point of view, a lot of things are ridiculous. Beating a drum in the woods is a creative, emotional experience, like theater. That said, there are some New Agey groups out there that are borderline cult like, so buyer beware. if they keep telling you to spend more… Read more »
ACS, first, Easy with the shaming language. I”m stoked for you that porn is helpful. You are a rare case in my experience. I love sex and tools that help us all deepen into our authentic sexuality. However, modern day porn meets most men where they are developmentally, which is an immature version of sexuality. Many of these guys who view porn are, in my experience, in pain. Porn offers respite from that pain. It’s very effective in the short term. But ask 50 women if porn is helping their man enhance his sex life. Sounds like it is for… Read more »
Why would you ask 50 women? It’s not all about them…..Why are men to be judged by women’s criteria yet if a woman is judged by men’s criteria that’s automatically wrong? Why is a woman viewpoint the Gold Standard?
I guess it depends on whether you want to develop your sexuality in the context of a relationship with another person, or not. There is nothing wrong with solo sexuality (in fact,it’s healthy) but most people also want to be able to relate to others in a sexual way. So the question is whether spending a lot of time looking at porn helps you develop your ability to have satisfying sexual relationships, or hinders it. Personally I think it depends on each individual, but there are men who realize at some point that porn is getting in the way. I… Read more »
“I think if someone is using porn, erotica, romance novels, or whatever, to hide from others and avoid connecting, that can be a problem.” I’ve read about how excessive porn use can affect a guy’s ability to enter into a relationship with women. It gives him an unreasonable expectation of beauty and what to expect in the bedroom. When men got addicted after entering into a relationship, it negatively impacted their partners self esteem. One of the things I thought was interesting was that there was some suggestion that excessive masturbation resulted in men not able to orgasm PIV because… Read more »
What is “authentic” sexuality? For that matter, what is “fake”?
@ Jayson Gaddis “But ask 50 women if porn is helping their man enhance his sex life.” Why wouldn’t you just ask the men? Sure, some guys use porn as a substitute for women. Sometimes it’s a substitute for the woman in their current relationship. That’s why you don’t ask the women. They’ll base it on whether their man is satisfying their needs instead of his. If a man rejects his girlfriend for porn, it’s because he’s found porn more fulfilling. Why should a man’s sexual satisfaction be defined by anyone other than himself? Some guys probably fear rejection or… Read more »
“If the We is being discounted for the I, then perhaps that person should exit the relationship if he or she isn’t fulfilled instead of being a passive participant and potentially hurting the other person.”
Agreed, but both people have the option and opportunity to exit the relationship. A guy may not because he doesn’t view it as cheating. That brings up the idea of emotional cheating, which I think both genders are to some extent guilty of. I think women are more prone to that so society won’t frown on emotional cheating as much as porn (or fantasy) cheating.
John, men think they drop women b/c porn is more fulfilling, but that’s a cop out. most men choose porn over women b/c it’s easier. real relationships are freakin’ hard. it takes work to deal with another human being all day long, especially the opposite gender. porn is one-way.
“but that’s a cop out. most men choose porn over women b/c it’s easier. real relationships are freakin’ hard. it takes work to deal with another human being all day long” Even if you’re right, they still made the decision that it’s not worth it. That’s the point I’m making. Each man should be able to make his choices and have those choices respected. Regardless of the reason he may choose porn over his partner, his partner should respect his choice and if that’s a deal breaker, go their separate way. That doesn’t mean that the partner doesn’t have the… Read more »
It’s kind of passive aggressive to do something that is hurtful to your partner, like preferring porn over the relationship, then saying “well if you don’t like it, you can leave.”
I’m not talking about occasional porn use or porn use shared with a willing partner, or a situation where a man uses porn because his wife refuses to have sex or whatever, but a situation where, as you described it, the man really just prefers porn to interacting with a partner.
@ Sarah
“It’s kind of passive aggressive to do something that is hurtful to your partner, like preferring porn over the relationship, then saying “well if you don’t like it, you can leave.”
Good point and thanks. I’m not sure if that’s what everyone else was trying to tell me, but the way you phrased it really helped me understand the position. I’m still a big bodily autonomy/freedom of association guy. I think there are things that are wrong and things that are simply undesirable, but that does give me something to consider.
I think that may be what many of us were trying to say. It gets back to expectations set by the couple. If there is an expectation at the beginning of shared intimacy, and someone is cutting off with no explanation other than “you are not fulfilling me but this is, and if you don’t like it leave.” that can cause pain to the partner that will be hard to heal. Rather, why not say actively, “I need to exit this relationship because I’m not fulfilled and prefer not to be intimate with you which I know hurts, but it’s… Read more »
It was the term passive aggressive that got me. I know you brought up passive, but I never put together that the passivity could be a form of aggression and because something is not done directly to a person doesn’t mean that it’s not abusive. I knew it wasn’t desirable. I was having difficulty determining why it might indeed be wrong. I don’t know how that would intersect with a person’s right to follow their own heart or engage in self destructive behaviors. In conventional cheating, the point is usually defined as when you want to have sex with another… Read more »
“Sadly, instead of growing up to be a healthy human being, men are conditioned to grow up to be “men,” which immediately limits their options to an incredibly narrow range of masculine ideals and behaviors and how the culture defines being a “man.” If things are worse now, as you say, then this can’t be the cause, since there’s less of this than there ever was in the past. The problem is a breakdown of the family unit and societal misandry. As evidence of what has been fone to males over the last 40 years, neither the federal, state, or… Read more »
help me understand why you feel like a victim to women? I’d really like to know…
The hell? I mean I’ve seen strawmanning, but this level of straw is absolutely amazing.
Hey Eric, help me understand why you feel like a victim to alien lizard people. I’d really like to know. (Well, if we’re going to put words in people’s mouths, let’s at least make them interesting words.)
You evidently don’t know what a strawman is.
Sorry for the confusion Eric, my reply was poking fun at Jayson assuming you felt “victimised by women” when you never said anything of the sort
@ 8ball
So you don’t believe that women make up 57% of undergrads in college?
I don’t think he said he was. “societal misandry”, “federal, state, or local governments”, “the gender warriors”. If I’m missing something, please explain.
If I were to be “true to myself” all the time and be apologetically male “as I and not somebody else sees fit” I would be labeled a raging misogynist. The idea that you can avoid being one by being yourself is quite untrue in my experience.
you can choose the man box or you can choose the feminist box, but just being yourself just makes everybody hate you.
faithless. your name might speak to it? if you think just being yourself makes everyone hate you, that would suck. that’s not how i see it at all. how can you move from victimhood into a place of more agency and power for yourself given the external reality?
I completely disagree with the argument that the present masculinity crisis is due to any abstract concept like man box. The crisis is mainly due to the rapid social, economic and even political changes that have been slightly unfavorable towards men and boys. They are trying hard to cope with these changes. The present economic condition does not offer the kind of opportunities that men deserve. Break down of family values and even families, have left boys directionless. To top all of it, the present political condition is all about appeasing the so-called victim groups, instead of working to solve… Read more »
Some of this I agree with, some of I don’t. However, the underlying truth is clear: every change in this society has come at the expense of men. The answer, more or less, has been to blame video-games and pornography as if they were the problem. They are not. The problem is an elite – in both parties – that shipped all of the good jobs overseas and pocketed the resulting profits. The problem is that this same elite have cheered while the girls and women of my generation focused all of their attentions on sleeping with (and bearing children… Read more »
I completely agree. The so-called intellectuals and social scientists are paying too much attention to the frivolous things like video games and pornography, and abstract concepts like social expectations, instead on focusing on the real issue underlying the present masculinity crisis. The basic fact is that no person is either good or bad, but we have a instinct to survive and propagate. If the social and other factors encourage person achieve these basic things in good manner, the we get good civilized people, otherwise we create brutes who do not care about others and society at large. As for the… Read more »
Rapses, I agree that part of the issue is social, economic and political factors for sure. I’d say “predatory corporate capitalism” to use Robert Jensen’s term is a massive factor. but even still, as an individual i have a choice on how i respond in a broken system and who to be in that system. Here’s his link: http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/04/30/anti-capitalism-in-five-minutes/ And soulite, the “elite”? who are you taking about? the top 1%? that is still by in large, white males. Everything you speak of is indeed an issue, however I don’t want people to “be good men.” that’s just another box.… Read more »
Jayson, Most of the articles related to the so-called masculinity crisis, including this article, shy away from discussing the real issues and instead focus on some abstract concepts, thereby defeating the very purpose of such discussions.
The problem I have with critiques of masculinity is that it seems that I am just trading one straitjacket (society’s conditioning) for another (your new version of masculinity). That is a reason why I never trust feminists who say that masculinity needs to be re-defined, or is toxic. To paraphrase the Who: “see the new box; same as the old box.” Maybe this is your point though: I don’t give a flying fudgestick what society says I need to do to be a man. Whether I have been conditioned or not, I don’t necessarily mind. Being the uber-masculine male that… Read more »
Jut, ha ha. i like you being you. rock on. And, i think it’s interesting how you see trading one box for another here. i don’t see that.
when I take off the shackles my culture has put me in, sure you could argue there’s just a bigger set of shackles that awaits me, ie. a bigger box. sounds like you got my point despite your comment tho. be you, period.
Jayson, Thanks for the response. Part of my comment may not have been directly in response to your point, but to those who want re-define masculinity to be more feminized. Teach boys to cry, to be in touch with their feeling, to play with dolls, etc. They just want to put boys in a different box, one that they approve of. I think that “traditional masculinity” is a fine thing to teach boys. There is a value to socialization (and, ultimately, can socialization be avoided). But, a part of that socialization is a reliance on self and an independent spirit.… Read more »
@Jut … You said exactly what I was thinking. I totally agree.
Wow! I’m so impressed with this article that I had to post a comment immediately before I had even finished reading it. (Sounds dumb, doesn’t it?) My own experience as I grew up as a baby boomer was that the stereotypical expectations that were imposed upon us boys were incredibly limited and confining. Of course, the first phony test of “masculinity” was whether or not a boy even had an interest in sports. If he just wasn’t interested in any sport, then he was a sissy and a fag. The mandatory “sports only” boys’ P.E., which definitely did NOT promote… Read more »
Letting others define you is seldom a good idea., but when boys are chlidren, what alternative exists? Chlidren need outside influences and guidance from somewhere.
I agree that U.S. males are ‘conditioned to be men,’ but that’s only the half the equation. We’re conditioned to be men, but we’re not actually ALLOWED to be men. That’s the conflict. Society has the same old expectations of us, but then denies us the opportunity and tells us we’re wrong if we try to fulfill them–and bad if we refuse them, too.
Parents must be the bedrock of children’s influences and guidance. Sadly, parents today are either stretched too thin, or too thoroughly conditioned themselves, to counteract social and peer pressures on their sons.
Note I say parents, not just dads. Mothers’ role ought to be to help liberalize and leaven the conditioning of boys, not just a. pass it on or b. totally squash it.
Copyleft, i question that we are not allowed to be men. in the one sense yes, true, the man-box is quite the machine that most folks buy, hook, line, and sinker. However, i’m not “allowed” to be who I am so I break the mold through “agency” as discussed in the post above. a truly agentic person doesn’t care who writes the script. they emerge into themselves and create their own place.
I think the point was that, when men don’t feel the need to break the mould, we are punished. Most behaviours typically seen as masculine have been criminalized and/or pathologized, especially in schools. boys aren’t allowed to be boys anyone, but are then shamed for not being boys. Is it really any wonder they grow up to be lost men or completely devoid of caring or empathy for anyone else?
“a truly agentic person doesn’t care who writes the script. they emerge into themselves and create their own place.”
Does that extend to slut shaming or female body image issues? I think a lot of times people believe that men should be able to overcome the obstacles before them so people think they are just whining while a similar expectation is not there for women.
@ Peter Houlihan It’s not that white men have it any worse or better on paper – black men are simply omitted altogether unless it’s about incarceration rates, HIV rates, or how single black WOMEN are faring (and why aren’t they marrying them?). That’s the serious irony here. White men have the (at least abstract) luxury of ivory tower reflection due to the simple fact that Western society was build for white men at the outset. White-normative remains the standard whether you actively see it or not. Latinos are an afterthought at best and Asian men are treated as docile… Read more »
There is a great reluctance, in a cash-driven society, to let anything get in the way of money as prime motivator. Anything else threatens to hurt the bottom line.
Add to this the remnant of a strong calvinist heritage, where having money meant you deserved it in god’s eyes, and you get a conflation of material success with moral character. Money IS morality, at least the practical part of morality. That’s what has to change.
Agreed Kaviani. boom!
“You’re a man! Now what? Likewise, there’s a general recalcitrance among males (not just straight ones) to have to do anything. Motivation is key, but the only motivators I’m seeing are sex and cash. Not exactly character building motivations.”
Well said!
“black men are simply omitted altogether unless it’s about incarceration rates, HIV rates, or how single black WOMEN are faring (and why aren’t they marrying them?).” Omitted from what? MSM articles? I won’t deny that. Feminist discussions? can’t speak for that, but wouldn’t be surprised. From MRM discussion? I would VERY much have to disagree with that, given the dreadful state of the black american family (Or more specifically, lack thereof) is pointed to as a cause for great concern within the MRM, both as an issue that needs to be addressed, and as a prediction of where the rest… Read more »