Sarah Beaulieu wants us to stop talking about the things men do wrong, and start talking about all the things men do right.
I certainly had a lot of reasons to be angry. I was sexually assaulted. By a man. By two men, in fact. One of them was my own grandfather. The other was a high school friend. The aftermath of these experiences left me broken and betrayed, not knowing how to trust, love, or be loved.
I was angry. I listened to angry feminist folk music. I read and discussed feminist theory, patriarchy, and sexism. I was on the hunt to expose bad men, and because of that, I found signs of their bad-ness everywhere. Every look, every comment, every gesture was a sign: men were just rapists waiting to happen.
But I had it totally wrong. Even if one (rightly) assumes that men commit most sexual assaults (http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/), the truth is that most men are not rapists.
Of course, I had a right to be angry at the men who hurt me. But I didn’t have a right to hold all men everywhere responsible for what happened to me. And by being angry, I was shutting down the possibility of love. As I became stronger and more whole, I opened my eyes to the love of men in my life. It was abundant.
For example, my brother steadfastly believed what happened to me and validated how much I was impacted by being molested. The simple act of witnessing me in my pain helped me heal. And so did the mac and cheese he made me when I was sad, and the hours of Nintendo-playing we did when I was too down to do anything else.
My husband taught me that love can be a constant fuel. He taught me that you can get angry, have conflict, resolve it, and love each other throughout. He taught me to love myself, and care for myself. He takes care of me despite my fierce independence. He turns up the heat when it’s cold. He walks the dog when I don’t want to go outside. He puts gas in the car. He volunteers with White Ribbon Project, a group of men committed to ending sexual violence.
My best male friend from college was by my side through the darkest days of my healing journey. After every therapy session, he helped me process what I was learning about myself. He saw me through the powerful emotions that went along with those lessons. He told me he loved me 10 times a day. He stood by my side when I told my story for the first time in public at a Take Back the Night event on our campus. He learned that while he couldn’t “fix” me, he could love me, and that his love would help me become whole again.
Simple acts of friendship and love are powerful tools that help survivors of sexual violence trust and heal. Men love survivors of sexual violence every single day. Most men are horrified by sexual violence and its impact on those they love. They want to help, but feel powerless – and afraid to say or do the wrong thing. If we want men to join the movement to end rape and sexual violence, we have to stop talking about all the things men do wrong, and start talking about all the things that men do right.
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photo by hansvandenberg30 / flickr
About Sarah Beaulieu
No reason you can’t be BOTH an angry feminist AND love men. They are not inherently mutually exclusive. Perhaps rare in practice, but not impossible.
Exactly. my husband and I are angry feminists and I ADORE men, and hate seeing them hurt by patriarchal notions about how men are supposed to be. I love my kind gentle father, my flamboyantly gay (and smarter than anyone else in the world) younger brother, my gentle youngest brother who stood up to a boy who was trying to kiss a girl without her consent but worries that girls won’t like him because he’s not big and macho, my beautiful androgynous sweet as sugar and tough as nails husband. I love all these men and more.
First, Sarah…thank you for sharing. You not only made some excellent points. You touched on some very important issues between the lines as it were. Women who have been hurt by men and then turn angry. Who walk with suspicion of every man. Become abusers of innocent people. So many times in my life, I have been victimized by a woman remembering the ghost of another man in her memory that was not me. In doing so, you do nothing but further the damage done to you and spread it to others. I am a human being, not a born criminal because of gender. Thank you for finding your way to that idea and sharing it. It is greatly appreciated.
Look, don’t get me wrong,it is a good thing that Sarah realizes that all men aren’t baseless animals,it really is. But if someone else, let’s say a recent immigrant, said to you that ,”You know I used to hate all Americans because of what one American did to me,” would you be so empathic and sensitive to them? The obvious downside to what Saran admitted is that it reveals just how desperate men have become for affirmation. It is such a low bar.
I think you’ve got to understand the context of patriarchy here, ogwriter. Imagine being constantly taught that all men are threats– that we need to be careful not to be assaulted, be careful not to be raped, that we need to look attractive because men have “power” inherently are our sexuality is our “power”, but if we look “too sexy” we’re asking to get hurt and we’re called bad names… Imagine constantly having to look behind you when walking, carrying pepper spray and keeping your keys between your knuckles, having to fear being stalked if you’re “too nice” to the wrong guy just once… imagine realizing that you will get paid less for the same job, that your gender predominately serves as decoration if the world runs according the media, imagine not being as strong as most of the people around you and having to be on guard… feeling a resentment towards men is a natural reaction towards trauma. Far more reasonable than Americans feeling anger at all Muslims and middle easterners after the actions of a handful of people on 9/11, and millions of Americans did just that.
You really think men don’t also feel they aren’t strong enough to deal with an unprovoked attack? (Most men aren’t.) That they don’t have to wolverine their keys into their fist for reassurance while walking home? I’ve done that more times than I’d care to mention. There was an article on GMP recently to that effect (specifically about the habit of improvising your keys into a weapon). Perhaps you should read it.
Funny thing is, we’re able to deal with it without managing to demonise an entire gender or come up with some silly concept like “rape culture”. In fact, if we showed the same kind of resentment that feminists showed towards men, I suspect another double standard would rear it’s ugly head.
So please – don’t lecture us about this stuff. We’re far more aware of it than you could ever realise.
OirishM
Of course many are not aware of what men go through. The fact that a man is more likely to suffer random physical violence is lost on most females. Also, rape is a more visceral type of violence, so it seems to command more of the attention or compassion. Getting your skull bashed in with a beer mug or metal bar could definately hurt or possibly kill you but it isnt as bad as getting raped, right? I think the number one cause of death for young black men in America is murder but it sure doesnt seem to get the same attention that rape of white women gets. Im with you in that I am FAR more aware of the possibility of random violence. Unfortunately intimately aware.
I walk around wolverine style, especially at night. I don’t think many people really understand that the majority of random physical attacks in public are against men.
It’s not a matter of men versus women but since you’re framing it that way – who is doing the murdering and bashing in of men’s skulls, mostly? Women? Or men?
You don’t think someone getting their skull bashed in would get sympathy? Really?
I have never heard of people being blamed for what they wore or what they drank or how they acted for getting their skull bashed in with a beer mug or metal pole. Or of police being told to discourage people from reporting those assaults. Can you explain when this happens, with links, thanks.
Oh, and – obviously – brutal violent attacks (besides rape) happen to women too. What do you think the two women a week dying of domestic violence are dying of?
If you do your research, rather than relying on feminist propaganda sites, you will discover that over 30% of the victims of domestic homicide are men, at the hands of women. You would also discover that men are the victims of domestic violence 50% of the time – its just that men don’t report it for fear of being (1) arrested (2) laughed at (3) ignored.
Women are also violent, to men and to each other. And if you find yourself having to report violence against you, or seeking protection against violence, you will find that it is mostly men who come to your aid. The feminist ‘women good, men bad’ polemic that you are subscribing to is sexist, self serving and false. Human beings all have the capacity for violence. Some do it physically, some do it psychologically and some get on internet sites and perpetrate social violence by villifying entire groups of people.
Yes I am perfectly aware of that thanks for your condescending and completely random assumption.
So 70% are not men at the hands of women, yes?
Yes, women are violent too. Who says they’re not?
Who says “women good, men bad” please? If YOU do some research I think you’ll find that this is not a feminist view at all. Please quote with links all these representative feminists says women are good and men are bad. Thanks.
If you think challenging domestic violence when it happens and criticising those who do it is vilifying all men then that says a lot about you, but people aren’t going to stop standing up for victims of violence – of all genders – just because you’re too uniformed and/or stupid to understand what people are actually doing, and why. Sorry but the victims of violence are more important than your delusions I’m afraid.
You do not represent all feminists. I have clearly heard from some feminists “All men are rapists” “All PIV sex is rape” “Men start ALL the wars”, etc. Why is your version of feminism correct and theirs isn’t?
“I have never heard of people being blamed for what they wore or what they drank or how they acted for getting their skull bashed in with a beer mug or metal pole.”
I’ve heard men be told they were idiots for walking alone at night, heard they were idiots for getting drunk near a woman and being raped by that woman. Victim blaming affects BOTH genders. Men who have called up a domestic abuse hotline because their wife/gf abused them have been TOLD by the hotline that THEY, the MAN was the abusive one and given the information for perpetrators and NOT victims.
Feminists may not explicitly espouse such views, but they insist on challenging traditional ways of valuing men while refusing to allow men to challenge traditional ways of valuing women. It is really better to be obedient to the law? More men are criminals. If you value the first, and believe the second, what does that mean? Men are not allowed to ‘make up’ for any of the ways in which they are clearly doing more damage to the world on the feminist scorecard. Actually saying, yes, men are more often criminals, but *also more often heroic* is considered sexist by most women I know. It leaves pro-feminist men in a trap where they can only feel men are worse.
Also, I meant to say “wear.”
Can I ask how much have you engaged with the topic of rape culture?
I used to think it sounded crazy but the more I learned, the more I changed my mind.
I’m not wild about the terminology personally, but what it refers to, I absolutely recognise. And we DO need to be able to talk about it.
well I don’t blame you for feeling that, but don’t blame me ( or us, men ) either for not feeling bad because of your fear of men. If a woman run away after seeing me and she think I’m a rapist, why would I feel bad? Its her problem, not me. Let her run. I know I’m not a rapist so I don’t care.
So you women can fear men anywhere anytime you want, thinking all of us are rapist and mindless simple minded creatures, because I DON’T CARE. I’m happy with my life and with ONE woman I love, and she love me and she doesn’t think I’m a rapist, because I’m not. So I don’t care , sorry.
No offense.
I don’t understand how focusing on all the things men do right ends violence against women. Men – and women for that matter – *should* do what”s right. That’s just bog standard human decency. We can show appreciation and gratitude to both men and women in our daily lives, but shifting our focus from the pandemic of male violence on this planet and focusing solely on all the good men do, handing out cookies for what is basic human decency? How is that going to solve male violence?
Violence isn’t going to be “solved.” We won’t ever see an end to violence; all we can ever hope for is a reduction in violence.
If you see the problem as solely violence by men against women then you’re misunderstanding the problem. If you think pre-judging men as violent, and treating them as such, is going to help things, you’re misunderstanding the problem. If you think only focusing on the negative is going to lead to positive change, you misunderstand the problem. If you don’t understand about male alienation, then you’ll continue to misunderstand the problem. If you think calling out men without also addressing women is going to solve violence, you misunderstand the problem.
“Come and see the violence inherent in the system.” – Dennis, bloody peasant
It’s not a matter of prejudging. We are talking about violence by men against women, so we are talking about how to tackle the specific individuals who perpetrate it.
When you say “without addressing women”, in what ways do we need to “address” women in order to stop violence against women?
Actually up to 50% of DV is reciprocal last I checked, and the women who hit their partner FIRST were more likely to be injured more. Basically a lot of violence starts with a woman hitting a man, he hits back, his hits are stronger (though women do a lot of damage too, especially with weapons). So one of hte BEST things we could do to reduce violence against women is tell women NOT TO HIT MEN to avoid provoking a retaliation. If all women stopped hitting men, it would drastically reduce violence against women. Note, the other 50% or so wasn’t reciprocal, this isn’t to say all women are to blame since pretty much half, or more didn’t hit first. Of those who did hit first it doesn’t excuse the retaliation strike unless that was self-defense, in the reciprocal cases both partners are victim AND perpetrator.
Good luck at ever seeing this on a campaign poster even though it’s one of the best ideas out there, the rule of nature dictates if you throw a punch you better prepare to receive one and hitting your partner increases your risk of being hit back dramatically, it’s pretty much instinct for someone to protect themselves but often a scuffle breaks out which very very quickly can escalate. A single punch can kill, if he or she hits the jawbone right it can knock someone out, they fall back, hit their head n die. I’ve been slapped n punched by women before for no decent reason, I wasn’t threatening them, I wasn’t harming them, I laughed over a joke that wasn’t about her OR women and copped a punch by one woman. Luckily I can control my temper, but do that to another person and they may not. Hell if a guy did that to another guy chances are they’d be hit back hard. Most perpetrators of violence were probably victims at one stage and reciprocal fighting in a relationship happens quite a lot, why am I yet to see this on an ad campaign?
Everyone needs to be taught to stop hitting, stop abusing, all genders, all ages, all races.
…but shifting our focus from the pandemic of male violence on this planet and focusing solely on all the good men do, handing out cookies for what is basic human decency? How is that going to solve male violence?
Who said anything about focusing solely on all the good?
Cookies? You know that whole “asking for cookies” thing does happen sometimes but it’s becomes such a cliche now that I’m seeing more people trying to dangle cookies over people’s heads in hopes they will reach for them (so they can then launch into preprogrammed “calls outs” about people asking for cookies) then I see people actually looking for cookies. The people that are cookie baiting need to get over themselves.
As Nick says the it probably won’t be solved, but it can be reduced.
But the way it can be reduced is being actually looking at the ENTIRE PICTURE of violence. Sure it looks nice to claim that the entire picture of violence is “its something that men do to women” but we know full well that that is not the case. Yeah you can argue about how “most violence is male against female” but there’s two things about that.
1. Unless you can prove that 100% of violence is male against female you are already missing part of the picture. At the very least you are missing female against male violence and pretty must most if not all violence among LGBT couples.
2. Even in the subset of violence that is male agaist female there’s going to be more to what’s going on behind that violence than the latest theory on patriarchal violence that basically says, “he did it because he wants to control her”.
@Nick: You’re more patient than I am because at this point I’m almost convinced that people aren’t “misunderstanding the problem” anymore. They are actively twisting the problems around to fit their own predrawn conclusions.
“Even in the subset of violence that is male agaist female there’s going to be more to what’s going on behind that violence than the latest theory on patriarchal violence that basically says, “he did it because he wants to control her”.”
Can you expand on this? Why else would someone bully, abuse, or beat their partner, besides control? Thanks.
I’m talking the difference between bullying someone because they want control over their relationship and bullying someone solely because they are a woman. In the former that person is going to bully and abuse no matter what gender identification their partner goes by.
Let me ask it this way.
When a woman is abusive to her man do we go on about how she wants to control men? Not just a generic want to control the life of her partner but actually say that she does it because she wants to control men?
When anyone bullies and abuses anyone it’s to control them.
But why are they controlling them? Is it because they belong to specific group? Is it because their victim simply exists within the abuser’s life, etc….
“When anyone bullies and abuses anyone it’s to control them.”
Reciprocal fighting differs here where both are trying to control each other, both abusive to each other. Far different to the line of thought of the patriarchal man of the house controlling his wife for instance.
Archy…The point I am trying to make Archy is that from the perspective of the other as it relates to dominant culture, whites are making some choices about how they approach bridging the racial divide that are hidden from view.
These choices hide behind the mantel of fear of the black person, which instinctively many white people relate to instantly.
You say that you are afraid of being called a racist. Why? What could possibly happen to you on an online chat venue? You can’t be sued, so whats up? Aren’t you equally afraid of being called sexist or anti woman or any of other creative descriptions feminism has used to shut up men? If so, and it seems so judging by your responses to posts, you plow ahead anyway speaking your mind.
Probably more confident speaking on gender issues, racial issues are still quite a mystery to me and I prefer to shutup n listen there whereas with gender I actually know quite a lot more, regularly talk about gender with both males n females. I guess I also see it as blacks being the minority so I feel I should let THEM speak more? Being called a racist would be annoying but it’s more that I don’t want to speak wrongly and end up pushing someone out because of it especially if I don’t know much about their issues.
It wont. Nor will seeing everything men do as wrong, we’ve been giving women a free pass on their violence for 30 years and it hasn’t reduced it, it’s increased it. Violence is committed by people, and their violence has to be addresssed, but it is not committed by all people nor is it committed by a single gender. If you want to reduce violence (as opposed to just jumping up and down about it and projecting it onto the opposite sex) you need to understand what it is and what causes it, and that isn’t gender.
Danny…Do you actually believe the chronic denial of the impact of violence committed by women is accidental…STILL? Damn,no wonder this car remains stalled on the side of the road.
Oh make no mistake when I said ‘You’re more patient than I am because at this point I’m almost convinced that people aren’t “misunderstanding the problem” anymore. They are actively twisting the problems around to fit their own predrawn conclusions.’ I meant that on a personal, one on one level.
Meaning that I’m sure there are individual people that may not recognize how damaging it is. I’m still still willing to give them bit of benefit of doubt.
But large organizations that supposedly exist for the sake of helping all victims? Hell no they know better by now. At this point if the organizations like UN or Amnesty International were to suddenly pick up on male victims and try to play it off like it’s a new thing (like how people think men didn’t start having body image issues until about 10 years ago) I’d be pretty pissed.
How many men a week die at the hands of a female partner please? Thanks.
I’ll give you an answer to that question as soon as you tell me your purpose in asking it.
I am interested to know whether it is greater or fewer than 2 a week in the UK.
I am interested because it’s quite important, don’t you think? You’re talking about how serious violence against men is – and I’d like to learn more about how many people die of it.
Just wanted to make sure you weren’t baiting me into a “but women have it worse” ploy.
Now as to your question I don’t know the numbers. But even without exact numbers it is clear that female against male violence is happening.
However I do notice that you mention killing when I and ogwriter were only talking violence (killing is a form of violence but not all violence is killing).
ht tp://www.ncdv.org.uk/maleDVweek.html According to this website it’s 1 every 3 weeks, not sure how many of those are female perpetrator.
http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/9/C/B/%7B9CBFDFE5-F9B2-4FEB-A14A-3166810B564F%7Dtandi255.pdf
In the AIC paper, 20% of the perpetrators were women.
Finding the data is tricky though since most tend to focus on women.
Danny…the problem is Danny that these individuals who are benefiting from the doubt,” innocent” they may be, are directly linked to the values system that groups like Amnesty International and the UN base their principles around social justice for men and women.It is because of these individuals that these groups, inside and outside of America, have constructed their failed policies about rape, sex trafficking and DV. Do you really imagine that the POTUS positions on rape and DV and gender are incidental to the UN?
Danny a unilateral multilevel movement is underway that is designed to solidify feminism as a international authority in the world. Electing a feminist president is a part of that plan. Although the truth is we already have the first feminist president in office now.
Over the last fours years we have seen the implementation of part of that strategy with the rise of MSNBC, and the Huff[ Post as important feminist news voices or propaganda sources-whichever you prefer- and the placement of feminists personalities like Rachel Maddow, Melissa Harris Perry on these shows(and they are news SHOWS that are every bit as unbalanced as Fox News). We saw how powerful this combination was during the election during when the feminists agenda expressed through these media outlets was made more important than unemployment-which affected the majority of the nation. This was no accident. Party platforms are formed by and reflect the most powerful voices in a given party;and feminists interests took center stage in the election, trumping everything else.This was a major demonstration of power and intent. This kind narrow gender prescription for progress will get worse when a ‘real feminist” woman;-a white middle class, upper class, highly educated woman becomes the president. You think thing s are bad now, just wait…and it won’t be an accident either.
Danny a unilateral multilevel movement is underway that is designed to solidify feminism as a international authority in the world. Electing a feminist president is a part of that plan. Although the truth is we already have the first feminist president in office now.
They may not be actually trying to plan and push for it but it’s for damn sure on their wish list (mostly like because they have it in their minds that a feminist president is the only way to get things fixed).
…and feminists interests took center stage in the election, trumping everything else.This was a major demonstration of power and intent…
While simultaneously saying they have no influence…
I would agree that women could do a better job on focusing on the things men do right and giving men credit for it. I don’t think this completely fixes the problem because we still need to talk about and be open to talking about the things men may do that aren’t great. But I also think that men are very senitive to the things they do that may hurt women that they are not very open to talking directly about these things. And that is just as much a problem as women not being open to talking more about what men do right.
Oh right, yes, my two male colleagues were really respectful and polite all day, not groping me or insulting me, at all, and I forgot to give them a special cookie and a pat on the head for it.
I mean they obviously didn’t give me a medal or a cookie or anything for being respectful to them, but that’s obviously completely different because.
What the hell are you talking about?! I’m a 5x year old blackman living in America,what do you imagine I don’t already know and haven’t experienced about pain in America? Dear lord child are you for real? I’ve been robbed at gun point and had friends raped by a white WOMAN.You are presumptious even beyond fault. Why don’t people like yourself understand the nature of abuse and life? It’s like your stuck in in groundhog day.Women abuse too! I have just as many reasons to be concerned about my personal safety as you do.Your fears are no more important than mine.
You have much more reason to fear for your safety as a man as men make up the vast majority of victims of violence adn murder.
Not that it’s a contest anyway, because men being killed hardly invalidates the importance of violence against women, but in any case… which gender is mostly committing those murders?
Men aren’t killed, by women, because they are men, in anything like the numbers that women are killed around the world because they are women.
Jazz…you know,folks who think that only their pain and their hurt and their difficulties in life count more than that of others make things worse for everyone.
Hello Sarah.
Thanks for sharing your story.
This article is based on a problematic premise. Maybe YOU personally directed your anger about your attacks towards all men, but that’s not what feminism is about, even angry feminism.
“Angry feminists” doesn’t even really make sense. Anger isn’t a permanent state of being. If you’re angry at sexism when it occurs, then what’s wrong with that? Anger is a normal human reaction to injustice, inequality, violence, etc. Sexism (against men or women) makes me angry. So does racism. So does poverty. I am also a perfectly happy person much of the time and love plenty of men, women, white people, and rich people.
Because being angry at racism doesn’t mean I hate white people.
Being angry at poverty doesn’t mean I hate rich people.
Being “an angry feminist” (i.e. being angry at sexism) does not mean I hate men. Or blame all men for sexism.
So I’m really glad you’ve realised what most feminists actually already know but doesn’t sexism still make you angry when it happens? I don’t really see why it shouldn’t.
Don’t the people complaining about angry feminists ever get angry about anything, ever? And if they do, does that mean they HATE a whole bunch of people? No. It doesn’t mean that at all.
Sorry to be so critical because your piece is very personal and brave, but seriously, it’s based on an utterly, utterly false premise.
Louise x
I am so tired of the assumption; every feminist is a man hater. We need feminists! Just look at all the victim blaming (rape-culture). Women are the only group who constantly have to fight discrimination regardless of color, religious view, ethnicity and so on.
I do not want to be victim, however it is devastating to read how people assume people fighting sexism are horrible people. What is bad about fighting for equality and human rights? Yes, we should talk about the good thing men does, but really, is it necessary? It should be expected. I would expect anyone regardles of their gender to treat me in a decent way. To be honest if I were a man I would be a bit insulted, like I were a creature that against all odds manage to behave in a decent way.
^^^^^^^^^^ This.
“I do not want to be victim, however it is devastating to read how people assume people fighting sexism are horrible people. What is bad about fighting for equality and human rights?”
If you bother to read many of the arguments against SOME feminists you will see it is not a problem with fighting sexism, it’s a problem of PERPETUATING sexism amongst other issues. Eg, gendering rape and DV so heavily that we end up with sexist laws that actually harm or discriminate against men.
Of all the anti-feminists I’ve seen, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any that are against equality but they are against badly implimented measures for equality (though some do generalize way too much about feminism and can’t see the good for the bad). Remember there are those who call themselves feminist who love the S.C.U.M manifesto and speak utter hatred against men, the term feminist is so loose that it ranges from egalitarians to extremists, from extremely transphobic radicals to trans-supporters.
“Women are the only group who constantly have to fight discrimination regardless of color, religious view, ethnicity and so on. ”
Constantly? Gross generalizations and exaggerations don’t help your cause, name me a single cis-female that has had to sign up for selective service? Discrimination can be high but it is not constant otherwise with such a loose label men too are under a constant discrimination in the U.S with selective service.
You raise a good point, and one that, due respect, is not so good. In regards to the point that is not good, I feel like I am banging my head against a wall, so I won’t dwell on it for long.
The good point you raise involves the issue of gendering and rape. Yes, most of the public discourse around rape focuses on women. You seem to be assuming, though, that it is women who are keeping the issue of rape against men suppressed in public discourse. I respectfully disagree. The gendering of rape defines it as something that happens to women. So if a man is raped, he is demeaned by the entire concept that rape is something feminine. That is something that we men have done to ourselves–the concept holds that a man who is raped is somehow less of a man, because only women get raped. Men have the power to change that concept.
Yes, men get raped. Quite a bit. They get raped in prison, but “prison rape” continues to be a topic of humor. Where are the men standing up to that, challenging the idea that prison rape is not funny, the way that feminists have been challenging sexist humor for at least two generations? Those men, and the women who support them, exist, but they are few in number. (The same can be said for female-on-male rape, which much of popular culture still does not view as a crime, cf. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsFunnyWhenItsFemaleOnMale)
Also, what organizations or people are standing up for male victims of rape? If you look closely at most major organizations that support victims of sexual violence, they actually don’t discriminate based on sex. It’s just that men don’t come forward. Why don’t they? Again, because they are unlikely to get any support from other men.
If men are serious about fighting male-victim rape, they need to start fighting male-victim rape, not just complaining about it to feminists.
As if to illustrate my point, a quick Google search for “male rape victim support” turned up a front page of results for organizations in the UK. American men need to get on this. Even if all you do is refuse to laugh at prison rape jokes, it is something. Here are a few resources to get you started:
http://www.mencanstoprape.org/Resources/resources-for-male-survivors.html
http://www.malesurvivor.org
http://www.aftersilence.org/male-survivors.php
http://www.pandys.org/malesurvivors.html
The only other point I will address, even though I’ve heard it so many times and it such a ridiculous argument that it will take a miracle to talk sense to anyone, is the issue of the selective service. If selective service registration is the best example you can come up with for discrimination against men in favor of women, then we guys are doing pretty damn swell. See, there are two problems with the argument:
1. (Assuming you live in the U.S.) we have not had a military draft since the early 1970′s, and there is less than zero political will to reinstate it. I can’t speak for countries that do have mandatory military service, but many of them require service of both men and women.
2. Regarding combat roles being reserved exclusively for men, that is no longer true in the United States, and many men fought tooth and nail to keep women out of combat. Many women fought tooth and nail to be allowed in combat units. It strikes me as daft to claim women are privileged because they are, until recently, excluded from something some of them want to do.
You seem to be assuming, though, that it is women who are keeping the issue of rape against men suppressed in public discourse. I respectfully disagree. The gendering of rape defines it as something that happens to women.
Actually you are both right. The responsibility for the gendering of rape as “something that men do to women” cannot be laid completely on the shoulders of a single group. From individual people to the organzations that say they are against it there is plenty of blame to go around.
That is something that we men have done to ourselves….
If women had nothing to do with it then why are there women (even feminists) that deny the existence of male rape victims?
Men have the power to change that concept.
Now this I agree with. We have the power to change the concept. But trying to say we dug this hole all on our own is false.
Also, what organizations or people are standing up for male victims of rape? If you look closely at most major organizations that support victims of sexual violence, they actually don’t discriminate based on sex. It’s just that men don’t come forward. Why don’t they? Again, because they are unlikely to get any support from other men.
From what I’ve read of accounts from male victims that doesn’t hold as true as you may think. And to say that the reason that men don’t get help is because they don’t come forward? Well why don’t they come forward? Because in a lot of cases they are actually turned away, if they are lucky enough to not be presumed to be the attacker when they seek help. This is almost on the verge of victim blaming.
If selective service registration is the best example you can come up with for discrimination against men in favor of women, then we guys are doing pretty damn swell.
Translation: Women have it worse. The problem with Selective Service isn’t the exclusion of women in and of itself. Its the penalties that are attached to it. Yes women have their own inequalities to deal with but at least they don’t have to face the possibility of losing citizenship status, having college applications declined, applications for goverment based financial aid, fines, and jail time if they don’t sign up for it.
And who decided that women had no place in the military? Luckily more women are entering politics, although I was surprised to see the lack of women in British politics (I do not know the States too well). I don’t think it should be a case of who is worst of, men or women? However no one should rewrite history and It is just stupid to claim women and men are struggeling at the same level in for example Afghanistan (not that anyone here does) My post was not focused on the states but the world in general. (Excuse my English, it’s not my first language) And by the way I was wrong about women being the only group fighting discrimination throughout history. Homosexual and lesbians are of course another group. And I do think it is horrible that men are struggeling with rape and victim blaming as well. Sometimes it is just like it is this constant wall or competition between men and women. I think it is destructive for everyone.
‘You seem to be assuming, though, that it is women who are keeping the issue of rape against men suppressed in public discourse. ”
Where did I say it was women keeping the issue suppressed? I said some feminists gender rape, and that helps suppress it but feminism is not a term limited to women. Methinks you assume too much of what I say. I’d prefer not to have strawman arguments used against me.
“That is something that we men have done to ourselves–the concept holds that a man who is raped is somehow less of a man, because only women get raped. Men have the power to change that concept.”
Wrong, this is something SOCIETY has done to men. Stop acting as if women have no agency in this world, women help contribute to a society which spreads these beliefs. It’s extremely insulting to blame men and men alone for it, and excuse women. WOMEN have more power than you could imagine, they are not a powerless group in the U.S, infact women hold more voting power than men, about 8million more votes. Given the power of social media both genders have quite a lot of power since it’s near fully unrestricted as speaking out against those in power doesn’t usually result in arrest/harm.
“If men are serious about fighting male-victim rape, they need to start fighting male-victim rape, not just complaining about it to feminists.”
There are already many anti-rape campaigns in existance, aren’t they already dealing with the stigma and myths against men? Although I have never seen a poster showing a male victim of a female rapist so I do question how much anti-rape campaigns as they exist now want to help men. Could you point me to the major awareness posters RAINN puts out showing a female rapist? I’ve never seen any and RAINN is one of the biggest campaigns isn’t it?
“Here are a few resources to get you started:
http://www.mencanstoprape.org/Resources/resources-for-male-survivors.html”
A gendered campaign which continues the myth of man = rapist as there is no sister campaign in existance where women are asked to help stop rape, stop raping men, etc. Without the sister campaign, this contributes to rape culture.
“It’s just that men don’t come forward. Why don’t they? Again, because they are unlikely to get any support from other men.”
I’d say because rape has been gendered for so long in the discussions, the extreme lack of accountability and awareness of female rapists plays a huge role. When you have a society which teachs men to be stoic above all else + myths of rape + stigma towards males raped by females it makes it extremely difficult for them to come forward. We’re seeing some come forward about abuse though and the occasional article on male victimization for DV for instance so maybe it is just going to take a bit more time.
“The only other point I will address, even though I’ve heard it so many times and it such a ridiculous argument that it will take a miracle to talk sense to anyone, is the issue of the selective service. If selective service registration is the best example you can come up with for discrimination against men in favor of women, then we guys are doing pretty damn swell. ”
So basically men’s issues are not very bad because womengetitworse? Gotcha. If a man fails to sign up for selective service, is he not at risk of fines, jailtime, and refused government funding?
Other discriminations exist too, such as duluth model style DV awareness and laws where primary aggressor from what I know has resulted in male victims being seen as the perpetrator. Circumcision still is routinely performed against boys under 18, and usually in infancy without their consent. This isn’t a pissing contest however of who gets it worse, but merely pointing out that both genders have discrimination and to say one has to fight constantly against it whilst the other doesn’t is foolish since the discrimination affects both. Now saying women have to do it MORE than men I could understand, but saying they’re the only group in existance to fight discrimination constantly is a major exageration.
“It strikes me as daft to claim women are privileged because they are, until recently, excluded from something some of them want to do.”
It strikes me as daft to assume women were not privileged since they weren’t actually forced to DIE for their country everytime war came a knockin. If you cannot see the privilege in that then it’s time to take a deeper look at the world. The men were privileged in being ALLOWED to fight, the women were privileged in not being FORCED to fight. Privilege is a 2 way street, sometimes men get them, sometimes women get them.
David…The selective service argument is valid and frankly I am surprised that you are not better informed. The fact is men who wish to go to college and get funded must sign up with the draft under strict penalties.Women don’t have to do that. This is a major difference between how the sexes are made available for the military.
For MANY poor white men and men of color, the military is the only viable chance they have to “make it.” For black men during the Civil war and WW1 and WW2, risking one’s life in service of “one’s country” was thought to be the best way to achieve freedom. Not just for themselves, but for their entire community. When have feminists ever had to fight in wars to be free? Never! Not everyone has it that good.
Many” women are not arguing to be allowed to fight in the military. This is just deceptive nonsense.
The actual numbers of women who are forcefully lobbying for the right to fight are relatively miniscule;especially compared the number of women who lobby for other female issues. The NOW has never seriously considered placing a priority using military service to speed or enhance the process of freedom for women.Furthermore, the number of women who have fought for this country, as compared to men, is also relatively miniscule. And it would take generations to match what men have done. it seems to me that you might want to do some homework because your information is suspect. I would agree that men need to take the lead on this prison rape issue;women are certainly not going to do it.
Which brings me to my most important point;as long as only women look out for themselves and men only look out for themselves, nothing will change. In a democracy it shouldn’t matter what sex one is.I should be just as vocal in my complaints about a rich white guy who gets screwed as I would be if a poor guy gets screwed