Noah Brand finds out that women aren’t perfect, either.
This post was previously published at No Seriously What About Teh Menz.
Beware what books you read when you’re fourteen. Wait… just about everyone reading this is long past fourteen. Too late, then.
When I was fourteen, I read Jailbird, by Kurt Vonnegut, and it remains perhaps my favorite of his novels. Vonnegut was, of course, one of the secular saints of American literature in the 20th century, and I’ll lick any man in the joint who says different. But damn, he missed the boat on gender issues a lot.
There’s a passage where the protagonist references, among the embarrassing and regrettable episodes of his past, a blatantly misogynist song he learned at college:
It was a song to be kept secret from women. It may be that no woman has ever heard it, even at this late date. The intent of the lyricist, obviously, was to so coarsen the feelings of males who sang the song that the singers could never believe again what most of us believed with all our hearts back then: that women were more spiritual, more sacred than men.
I still believe that about women. Is that, too, comical? I have loved only four women in my life—my mother, my late wife, a woman to whom I was once affianced, and one other. I will describe them all by and by. Let it be said now, though, that all four seemed more virtuous, braver about life, and closer to the secrets of the universe than I could ever be.
He goes on to describe how he and his college buddies were terrified of women and what women might expect of them as men and as lovers, a fear that found its expression in jokes and songs degrading women. As he puts it, “It might properly be compared with a song making fun of lions, sung by lion hunters on a night before a hunt.”
That was a very easy sentiment for a fourteen-year-old boy to recognize, and after the manner of boys that age, I took Vonnegut’s statement about women entirely at face value. (I am eternally grateful I didn’t read Atlas Shrugged that summer. I’d probably be an asshole to this day.)
Naturally, this led to some seriously embarrassing problems relating to girls over the next several years of my life. I’m sure many of our female readers will remember me or one of the million boys like me from their high school years: blindly chasing after a perfect female image we kept on a pedestal, and simply pasting one girl’s face after another onto this idol. I stalked, I obsessed, I wrote love letters that would give diabetes to a bowl of butterscotch pudding. I feel like I owe an apology to every girl I fixated on in high school, one in particular who probably knows who she is. I’m sorry I was an addled adolescent asshole. It seemed like a good idea at the time, what with the hormones and the Vonnegut and whatnot.
Meanwhile, my mother was a professional guru. She literally made a living just being wise and enlightened. She used to occasionally list her occupation as “cult leader” on forms because, well, fuck forms. People came from all over to study with her, and one evening over dinner she told me a story that, in the manner of the best gurus, completely shook up my worldview in one minute. To roughly quote her:
One of my students came up to me at the retreat. She was in tears, she was so upset. It seems that at last year’s retreat, she’d met this man, another student, and they had an affair. And it was a really bad idea, and it wasn’t good for her marriage or his, and he’s kind of a jerk, and it ended badly and she regrets ever doing it.
But now she’s run into the same guy at this retreat, and she says she knows she’s going to have another affair with him, even knowing in advance it’s a terrible idea. And she’s crying and beating herself up, asking, “What’s wrong with me? Why am I doing this to myself?”
And I think about it for a minute and I tell her, “Well … girls are dumb.”
That was a bolt of lightning to me, and one that was long overdue. In giving that woman permission to own her own foolishness, to see it as mere foolishness rather than a deep personal failing, my mom also opened my eyes.
Girls are dumb. Girls are every bit as prone to ill-considered dipshittery as boys are. Girls are not fucking magic. They are not Tolkien elves who always move gracefully and do everything better and whose farts smell like cookies. Yeah, I know how embarrassingly obvious that sounds, but at the time, that was seriously new information to me.
My relations with women improved dramatically after that, and I became more feminist than I had been after some unfortunate early encounters with overzealous young true believers. It took me a while to actually subscribe to the radical notion that women are people, because I’d been operating on the assumption that they were elves.
I suspect a lot of guys walk a similar path. Some, burdened with the girls-are-magic theory, do what the boys in Jailbird did and try to replace reverence and fear with hate and contempt. Others walk what they imagine to be a nobler path, paying tribute to the perfect goddess that they’re projecting onto some poor human girl who didn’t ask for it. And some, like me, eventually figure out that pedestalization is bullshit, love is something that happens between flawed and fallible human beings, and girls are dumb.
—Photo: paranograf/Flickr
Wow, such a good, i mean great read, i applaud my brother dude! amen! thank you for this article! now this is truest most accurate article ever.
Amen brother. Your headline was misleading (I can only imagine how many people followed the Google trail to lambast you as a misogynist) but your argument is spot on.
Women are just as fallible as men. So don’t put them on a pedestal. Instead respect them as equals.
I’ve always wanted to be an elf!
Of course, I make just as many mistakes as anyone, and my farts don’t smell anything like cookies. Sorry, Boyfriend 😉
Noah, your mom’s sentence was keen and insightful.
But for putting it in a more gender-neutral tone, I think it’s better said this way:
“Girls can be dumb – just like anybody else”.
And I’d like to add this: “Attraction can make us dumb, really dumb. And when we mistake it for love it’s even worse, because we see it as better or nobler than really is”.
For the record, I’m incredibly mystical. I sleep on a bed of elves, ride a unicorn to work and shit rainbows. Get your facts 100% straight before you start writing pieces like this.
Artemis; RC institutions shouldn’t be forced to pay for BC. Misogyny.
Conservative women can be slimed with the worst obscenities and it’s okay because they’re not really women. Not misogyny.
Got it.
Copy. Eagle has proven himself to me.
I’m suggesting he improve his public image to folks in general.
I’m already convinced.
But if he thinks the current situation is copacetic, that’s fine with me.
Richard, you are the only one convinced that Eagle is a misogynist. Anyone else reading posts from him and you know who the real misogynist is.
What you think has been proved and what has actually been proved is entirely different.
Interesting. I thought that all men were taught what Rush Limbaugh is saying: that any woman who wants a life other than being a barefoot and pregnant baby-machine was a slut and a whore.
Its okay, wouldn’t be the first time someone has made that generalizing presumption about men.
Rush Lumbaugh is a hot air filled pundit who’s only popular due to the next shocking and politically incorrect thing he says.
I would rather have my brain drilled into mush than be taught the morals of Rush.
Count me as another man who could care less about Rush’s views on morality and women.
Edit: Sorry, it’s Rush Limbaugh.
Eagle. When are you going to post your contemporary records of your outrage at Maher calling Palin a “cunt”, Letterman joking about Willow Palin getting knocked up by A-Rod, and Schultz’ referring to Laura Ingraham as a “slut”?
Pixels are free, you know. Surely you can prove that you’re not an unprincipled misogynist.
Sooner would be better.
Richard: “Pixels are free, you know. Surely you can prove that you’re not an unprincipled misogynist.
Sooner would be better.”
Ah, so this isn’t sarcasm. You are actually demanding.
In which case, leave me alone. You can’t make me adhere to your lofty standards.
Read my damn articles on this site.
I don’t agree with those people either. There I said it. Now leave me alone with forcing me to adhere to lofty standards regarding whether or not I’m an unprincipled misoganyst since you don’t know a damn thing about me or my personal life.
Eagle: Pixels being free, there is no cost to you to post contemporary records of your outrage at Maher calling Palin a “cunt”, Schultz calling Laura Ingraham a “slut”, and Letterman joking about Willow Bristol getting knocked up by A-Rod.
If you post those, you can show us you’re not an unprincipled misogynist.
Richard: “If you post those, you can show us you’re not an unprincipled misogynist.” Um…Richard, I hope this is sarcasm because I don’t take too well to you or anyone calling me an unprincipled misogynist or assuming that if I don’t post detailed accounts of me calling out the people you mentioned that I’m an unprincipled misogynist. I sincerely hope this is sarcasm because if this isn’t, then…well I don’t know what to say except you really disappoint me. You should’ve known whether or not I’m an unprincipled misogynist by reading the articles I submitted. Besides, I don’t agree with… Read more »
The notion that Eagle, or anyone else, has to ‘prove’ anything to you is highy amusing, Richard. You have quite an opinion of yourself there.
Nah, guys are much dumber than girls.
Girls are smart enough to use their social skills to manipulate men to do things for them.
Girls are smart enough to marry-up and make sure they are financially taken care of.
How is this not misogynistic? Wild generalizations that apply to, what, 10% of women (not girls)?
I know literally tons of women who have not married up. In fact, out of all of my peers who are married… all of them are more financially sound and higher paid than their partners. They secured their own future AND support the guys.
So yeah, you’re wrong.
#generalization fail
kitti.
The point, as Patton said, is not to die for your country. It’s to make the other poor bastard die for his. So the question is not whether you can enlist, you can. The question now is whether women can physically qualify for the Combat Arms. So few can that it’s not worth the additional accomodation.
Women aren’t magically immune to being blown up by terror bombs in markets or schools. You’re right.
Noah, you’re core message is a good one. Which I think is more the idea that females are people. With their own sets of issues, desires, needs, functions, and mistakes. I think some men put women on pedestals while other men degrade women, both done to the point of ignoring female “humanness”. BUT, not a fan of the “girls are dumb”. And I think not too many men would be happy to see a female writer write that same reference about men. You would have gotten your point across fine with some fine tuning to your last few paragraphs. Because… Read more »
“It took me a while to actually subscribe to the radical notion that women are people, because I’d been operating on the assumption that they were elves.” >>> When you say “girls are dumb,” you are saying “women are elves, not people.” <<< "Dumb" excuses the behaviour. The kind of selfish, compassionless, cruel behaviour that you describe is not dumb. It is WRONG. Dumb is a cop out. It is typical of female entitlement and feminism. When men do wrong, throw them in jail and spit on them. When women do wrong, call them "dumb" and giggle. You want to… Read more »
Look at the example….
Two people, both married, both having affairs. The women is beating herself up mentally for falling for it again.
Guess what… that man in the situation was also ‘destroying his family’ ….
So should he also be ‘thrown in jail’ for having an affair as you suggest?
PULEESE.
No guy is in jail because he had an affair. That is total and utter BOLLOCKS.
Still asking, here and elsewhere: Who tells guys this stuff? His mother sounds like a put-together woman. She wouldn’t have done it. Anybody else?
The “girls are angelic” nonsense got started by the Victorians, who believed it because of Queen Victoria. It’s not much better than the “girls are soulless animals that only get into heaven if they have men” philosophy that the Medieval church taught.
In my experience, we run about equal. I’ve known saints and monsters of all genders, including women, men, queer and trans.
“It took me a while to actually subscribe to the radical notion that women are people, because I’d been operating on the assumption that they were elves.”
This made me so happy.
This entire article was great. Noah, you write some good stuff.
Hey, thank you. I really like the piece. Because you’re right. Girls are dumb. Guys are dumb too. But I’m glad that someone is not putting women on a pedestal. You know how much undue pressure that is on a woman? I’ve had guys do that to me and I told them in no uncertain terms that I was not an idol to be worshiped. I just wanted someone to respect me. Let me own my own silly mistakes and see me as I am – human.
Right on!!!
Woops, again. Wasn’t sure the first one hit, disappeared between “moderation” and showing up.
Sorry.
I was impressed with the use of the first-person singular. Much of the work on GMP uses the plural, leading me to ask,from time to time, “Who’s this ‘we’ you’re talking about here?” Still, the writer slides over into the plural beyond the data at several points. One’s navel, no matter how minutely inspected, does not necessarily reflect the larger world. If you think you have to write this sort of thing, keep it in the singular. I never heard–full disclosure, I’ve been in a fraternity, I’ve been a smash-mouth jock,and I’ve been a grunt–such a song. I have heard… Read more »
I was impressed with the degree of first person singular in this essay. There is a lot of work on GMP which uses the plural.
Which leads me to inquire, from time to time, who’s this “we” we’re talking about here.
Still, the writer does generalize to the plural beyond the data.
One’s navel, inspected closely, does not necessarily reflect the world.
I don’t recall the song, any song, as described. I do recall hearing a bit of obscene doggerel from one–emphasis on the singular–or another loser. But not as a social event.
Vonnegut, iirc, writes fiction.
Yeah, it took me awhile too not to put the female on the pedestal. Which is why I want them to die in the trenches and on the battlefield just like men do. I see no good reason for them not to be blown to bloody bits or have their minds savaged in defense of the national interest. A bit off the rails that last paragraph, but since we no longer need to preserve women from the rigours of reality for their wombs, I figure they should get the worst of the water carrying that men do. If there’s anything… Read more »
Or maybe get rid of conscription altogether?
What makes you think women are free of the ravages of war? Ever read about the rape conquests being conducted by armies in Africa? Do you think that Iraqi women magically avoid getting blown up by our “smart” bombs?
I agree that women should be allowed into combat. We’re equals; I have just as much right to die for my country as any man.
What makes you think women are free of the ravages of war? Ever read about the rape conquests being conducted by armies in Africa? Do you think that Iraqi women magically avoid getting blown up by our “smart” bombs? I hope that is not what wet meant because its often times that the ravages women suffer in war are the majority (and sometimes only) of the ravages we hear about. Not sure how it is now since I don’t watch as much tv but usually the coverage would amount to something like, “100 killed, 40 of them women and children.”… Read more »
A boy is often told by his parents to respect women, but why not just tell him to respect everyone? Someone shouldn’t be respected or disrespected simply because they have a vagina. Conversely, a girl is often tacitly encouraged and taught that their life goal is to meet prince charming; why is finding a man or bearing children the way to define women?
Men are stupid; so are women. We’re just all stupid. Let’s just admit it (that should be a quote from a Dr. Seuss book).
No, we’re not just all stupid. Many of us are quite intelligent and insightful. Some are downright brilliant. I am sorry if you believe you and everyone you know is is stupid, but it’s not true of everyone.
I’m pretty sure he means everyone is stupid in that everyone can be foolish at times and make mistakes. Not that all people are lacking in the mental department.
So true, Some Feminist, and I’m really glad you’re making that distinction. I never tell my boys “don’t hit girls”, I tell them that they can only hit people to protect their own bodies… So yes, we teach them to respect people equally. I think the original idea about teaching boys to respect girls was because it was generally okay to disrespect women and parents were trying to counteract that. At this point, though, I would say to respect all and have open discussions about the different types of discrimination people get… Girls being mean to boys, boys being mean… Read more »
Joanna: “I think the original idea about teaching boys to respect girls was because it was generally okay to disrespect women and parents were trying to counteract that.” The problem was, and I think you’ll agree Joanna, is that no one taught girls to not hurt boys or disrespect them. Unfortunatly, as we’re finding out now, girls can be just as malcious towards them and even violent. Now, thanks to teaching boys to always respect girls and women, not to hit them, they have no means to defend themselves when they’re attacked verbally or physically. It doesn’t help that society… Read more »
“No one has a monopoly on stupidity.” – Captain B. Obvious
Hopefully, you’ll also eventually figure out that generalization like “girls are dumb” or “boys are dumb” is also bullshit.
I don’t know generalizations like that have worked for me. It’s helped me not worry too much about others opinions
I think the point of the article, and the use of that phrase, was to emphasize that women are not some special group of people who’re somehow a step above men. They’re just people.
It’s not saying all women are dumb…it’s saying women can be dumb (just like men can be dumb).
This is pretty much the same “reasoning” piped to me by a feminist who goes around stating that “Men are rapists.” I called her out very publicly on that and we got into quite the battle over it.
Is that kind of generalization okay with you because it’s not saying that all men are rapists… it’s just saying men CAN be rapists? I shouldn’t argue against those kinds of generalizations? It’s all good?
I hate it when this happens. I’m quite sure he’s not meaning “dumb” as in uneducated, not able to learn, unintelligent. It’s a tongue in cheek way of saying, women are just as human (and messed up, silly, dumb etc) as men.
Yes, Julie, exactly. Noah says, Girls are every bit as prone to ill-considered dipshittery as boys are. Now, his mother… I’m not sure she was saying something about females and males being equally as prone to failure and imperfection… But I wasn’t in the room so I don’t know. But Noah is simply saying to take the women off the pedestals, not to deify them. I have had to do the same thing with guys. Every guy I met was “perfect” — even his imperfections were adorable and somehow just so perfectly perfect. For either sex, it’s a long drop… Read more »
Right yeah, Julie…that too. And I think Joanna’s quote from the article really clarifies Noah’s meaning with the word dumb. It’s just about saying – women are just as much flawed human beings as men are.
It was a bit unfortunate to title an article about how generalisations are bull with a generalisation, but I’m pretty sure Heather hit the nail on the head.
No he was just using to mean, “Girls aren’t exactly all that and a bag of chips you know.”
And if I’m not mistaken “Girls are Dumb” was only a portion of the title it originally ran under at NSWATM.