We invited our friends, fans, writers, and reviewers to an early preview of the upcoming movie, Welcome to the Men’s Group, and offered some questions to get them started on their articles. A couple of our twitter followers watched the movie together and shared their thoughts on the condition of anonymity.
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How does this movie also speak to the fear of being a father, or being a stay-at-home father?
Do you see men making a conscious effort to not be their father?
LD: Yes, the movie highlights both the fears of being a father and being a Stay-at-Home-Dad.
Based on the men I know, they consciously and sometimes unconsciously want to be both like their fathers and also very different from the destructive or disappointing qualities their fathers possessed. Even for men that didn’t know their fathers, it’s very important to know who they came from because it informs them of their own identity and sometimes their purpose.
JB: Definitely to the first question.
But no, men are not making a conscious effort to not be their father because they are not aware or focused on this aspect of their lives.
What does caring about other men really mean? Calling them out on their BS? Yelling at them? Offering to help? Trying to dig deeper into the issues?
LD: It means not having superficial relationships and bonds because those are everywhere and we’ve all had enough of that. It means being loyal, reliable and supportive in a way that men can’t normally ask for. It means actually being able to talk deeply about anything at all, allowing each other to put the facade away for a moment, not devaluing each other with sexist commentary that implies a man is acting like a female.
While you may keep a man’s secrets, you encourage him to be a man of integrity and to do the right thing.
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And once you’re in a good place, challenging each other to be better men. While you may keep a man’s secrets, you encourage him to be a man of integrity and to do the right thing. You call him out on his bullshit even if you have bullshit of your own because it only makes you both better to be honest about it and grow into better habits.
JB: Caring about other men really means offering an emotional and supportive outlet in lieu of having to pay a psychologist.
Why are there so many pressures on men to create a façade which they then work really hard on not having crumble?
LD: Being a man, as I’ve learned from my boyfriend, means having certain if not all of the badges of honor which can also be thought of as competitive advantages. Career, women, the ability to please women sexuality, enough money to take care of a family (nice home, great neighborhood, the best schools, gifts for your wife, vacations, etc), the ability to stand on your own two feet apart from your father, especially if he was highly successful.
Your self-esteem and social status can be rooted in whether or not you measure up and how many of these competitive advantages you have. It’s the responsibility of the man to have all of this together and to always be in control of it. And as women we depend on men in many ways and we’re fully allowed to depend on men, but the opposite is not fully accepted. A man loses his status as a man if a woman makes all the decisions, if he doesn’t provide for the family in masculine-sanctioned ways or if he shows feminine-sanctioned qualities such as vulnerability, in need of support.
JB: I believe it is societal and that men are raised this way by parents or society as a whole.
Why is nudity disturbing to us, even when it is clearly not sexual and
maybe especially when it isn’t sexual?
LD: I was overwhelmed by how averse all the men were in the group to Carl getting naked in front of them. I thought at most they would think it tickling and entertaining, but I was confused that all these men knew each other so well, this was right in line with Carl’s personality (haha) and the group was committed to being open-minded.
Michael would not have discussed wearing women’s panties or his two years of impotence/not being able to have sex with his wife even if it was a lie.
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Nudity in America is supposed to be kept behind closed doors because nudity is always sexualized in our minds. We are socialized to see nudity and think of sex and extreme intimacy. Not wanting to see someone naked means not wanting to think of them sexually or to have such intimate knowledge of them. For those who are afraid to themselves disrobe, nudity is about how honest, exposed and vulnerable they are willing to be with themselves and others about who they are at their core. Who they are in their rawest form and how comfortable they are with being judged at their most vulnerable.
JB: Because most people are embarrassed in their own skin and seek perfection, which they feel they do not possess.
What topics did the guys talk about that wouldn’t have been discussed in a mixed gender group? Why?
LD: Anything related to dicks. ie: Presidents wanting to see if their dicks were bigger than their fathers’. Men wanting to see if their dicks were still there. Michael would not have discussed wearing women’s panties or his two years of impotence/not being able to have sex with his wife even if it was a lie. Larry might not have revealed that he was committing fraud or that he was overwhelmed by all his responsibilities in life.
JB: Suicide and problems with their relationships.
How do cultural expectations of gender play into a diverse group of men like this when they get together? How do men “perform masculinity”? How do men break out of that?
LD: The characters of Eddie and Mohammad appeared to be performing masculinity informed by their characters’ respective cultures. They were being very good about showing machismo and or dominance at all times. Eddie had strict rules about being the primary breadwinner in the household and not allowing a woman to kick a man out of his own home regardless of the circumstances. Mohammad was very callous with all of the men, not very sensitive or open at all and said to be narcissistic and emotionally unavailable to his wife. They rarely broke from these performances of masculinity.
Michael’s version of masculinity was having one hand on the bible and being a faithful husband and family man, he broke out of this by living a double life where he was the complete opposite of who he pretended to be, even resorting to wearing women’s lingerie to deal with his impotence.
We learned that Tom had in more ways than one broken with the masculinity facade: he wasn’t into sports and guiltily enjoyed being a SAHD.
In decades past, Carl would’ve had his manhood judged for wearing his lavender shirt.
Larry played the role of primary caretaker which would traditionally be female role in addition to his masculine role of primary breadwinner.
Neil broke with the masculine performance by taking a dance class that seemed to be grounded in sensual, feminine movements. He also spoke to Mohammad’s wife on the phone for two hours at a time discussing her feelings and emotions–which would generally be classified as a feminine trait.
JB: Men seem to perform masculinity through their work and letting a job define them. They can break out of that by focusing on life totally and what other ways they can live and be happy.
How do the pressures of physical appearance/health play out with men?
LD: Male attractiveness is six pack abs, a swimmer’s body, and upper body muscles that look great in a tight fitted shirt or bare. Muscles are a reflection of masculinity. Health-wise, men are supposed to consume masculine foods and drinks while at the same time remaining healthy enough to be and appear stronger than women. We always ask men to lift heavy objects so if they can’t do those basic male tasks, they lose that competitive advantage.
JB: It appears most men ignore the pressures and are in denial relative to health issues.
How do we recognize and deal with mental illness when we see signs of it in our friends? How do we treat mental illness differently in women than men?
LD: I think it takes a lot to notice mental illness in friends. Some people hide it well and only show it in private, keeping up the facade. When symptoms are noticed, I don’t think most people realize it’s not just a passing bad mood or tough time. And if they do learn it’s mental illness, few people are equipped to deal with the overwhelming burden it is.
So conscious masculinity would mean to me defining for yourself what masculinity is instead of just accepting what society tends to pressure us to believe.
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So I would say we don’t deal with it at all. Both men and women suffer in silence through so many things. And both men and women are prescribed pills for any feelings they may be having instead of effective counseling. The one thing about men is that they may have less opportunities to talk about their feelings openly with friends without the assistance of things like alcohol. Men are just not allowed to be overwhelmed with feelings to the point where they need outside help. They are more at risk for being judged for this than women.
JB: It appears that many people do not recognize and do not deal with mental illness in friends or family because they are not equipped with the education they need to do so. In women, mental illness has always been thought to be something in a woman’s head, whereas now with men, mental illness is treated as such, an illness.
What is “conscious masculinity?”
LD: I’ve never heard this term before, but consciousness is generally meant to imply an awakened or enlightened way of thinking as opposed to being asleep or running on auto-pilot and allowing external factors dictate your thoughts and actions instead of your internal voice. So conscious masculinity would mean to me defining for yourself what masculinity is instead of just accepting what society tends to pressure us to believe.
JB: It’s a male being conscious and aware of his maleness.
What would be the difference between a men’s group and a group of guy friends getting together to talk about things on a regular basis? How important is the structure?
LD: The purpose of getting together and the expected activities that would take place. Male friend groups are generally casual, informal opportunities to do stereotypical male activities–drink beer, watch sports, play sports/hobbies. I don’t think guys get together for any other reason. Men’s groups are more formal, more purposeful, supportive in some way—deeper sharing and bonding is supposed to take place. Stereotypical feminine activities like talking about feelings are allowed. They’re usually centered around self-improvement in some way.
JB: The difference between a men’s group and a group of guy friends getting together to talk about things on a regular basis is the “trust” factor. The structure is very important and crucial in any group.
Any other thoughts about the film?
LD: The movie was very funny, entertaining and moving start to finish. I like how it reflected that men can get together for the purpose of cooking good food and talking about feelings and at no point did I feel like they were any less masculine for it. They were still regular guys, the talks didn’t solve their problems like a magic wand and opening up/trusting was still a challenge even for well-established members, but it gave every guy somewhere to go to fully express themselves. They got something they didn’t have at home or in their daily lives, and you could see they enjoyed the monthly commitment. I know a handful of men who could benefit from groups like this that are not based on religion or hobbies, where the whole focus is opening up, talking about feelings and caring about each other.
The Good Men Project will be hosting an exclusive Panel Discussion with the writers and producers of Welcome to the Men’s Group. For updates and an invitation to the online event please register below.
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Photo: Youtube/The Men’s Group Channel
I dunno. I’m not sure if this is not just painting another myth of who men are. In the previews, in the discussions, there is nothing that I recognize, nor do I understand why these men are in such chaos, so fearful of speaking to each other. I’ve been in locker rooms for the most of the first half of my life. Seen more naked men then I can count. Seen all of my friends naked, but if I were in a men’s group, in some guys living-room, and a guy decided to run around the room naked I’d be… Read more »
“Nudity in America is supposed to be kept behind closed doors” is a modern phenomenon. I grew up in the 60’s and it wasn’t out of the ordinary that men were naked with other men. Closed doors? Confuses me because our society, where it stands now, promotes very revealing clothes … “modesty” is something that our current society doesn’t care much about.