Hugo Schwyzer explains how a dad who relies solely on emotional validation from his daughter (instead of his wife) might be causing unforeseen harm.
My daughter Heloise is nearly three. She’s tall and talkative for her age, and a source of wonderment and delight to her mother and to me. But as cute and charming and funny as she is, she is no princess. Or, to put it more accurately, she may occasionally dress up as a princess–but I am not her prince.
In August 2009, I posted a piece on my own blog, She’s got you wrapped around her finger: fathers, daughters, and a variation on the myth of male weakness in which I noted the extraordinary number of folks who expressed to me their certainty that I would treat Heloise as a flawless angel whose whims I could not help but indulge. But there’s an even more troubling aspect of the father-daughter relationship that needs calling out.
Becoming a parent for the first time in one’s forties has myriad advantages, not least that I’ve had the opportunity to watch a great many of my peers “do it all first.” (I have three high school friends of mine who are already grandparents.) And I’ve seen, a time or nine, an unhealthy triangulation occur with dads, moms, and their daughters. While the dangers of physical incest and abuse are real, there’s a kind of emotionally incestuous dynamic I’ve witnessed over and over between fathers and daughters, one in which dads seek from their daughters the validation and affirmation that they feel they are entitled to, but are not receiving from their wives.
Little children adore their parents. Really, it’s a lovely thing to come home each day and be welcomed, as I invariably am, with gales of excited laughter and delight. My daughter’s love is an impressive thing to feel. No matter what has transpired during the day, no matter what I’ve said or done (or failed to say or do), Heloise seems to adore me. It’s a wonderful thing, and I eat it up with wonder and gratitude and delight.
Of course, spouses aren’t the same as children. My wife loves me, a fact of which I blessedly have no doubt. But she most certainly doesn’t have me a on pedestal, doesn’t think I’m flawless, and doesn’t greet me with shrieks of joy everytime I walk into the house. Eira engages with me as a partner, and she challenges me and pushes me and asks me for things; I do the same for her. In a good marriage, iron sharpens iron, and the more friction in the sharpening process, the greater and more enduring the heat. Anyone who’s met my wife knows that she’s a tall, strong force of nature. (This is a woman who can dress down Israeli soldiers on patrol and make them blush apologetically. If you know the men and women of the IDF, you’ll know how astounding that is.) She loves me and she encourages me as I do her, but she doesn’t conceal her displeasure when she’s unhappy, and she doesn’t come rushing to me like something out of a Marabel Morgan book when I enter the house.
Here’s the thing: some men play their daughters against their wives, mistakenly believing that the way in which their daughters see them (as heroic and perfect) is the way that their spouses ought to as well. If a man hasn’t done his “work”, he may find himself looking at his daughter, gazing up at him with adoration, and he may start (resentfully) to contrast his girl’s fierce and uncomplicated devotion with the somewhat less enthusiastic reception he may be getting from his overworked and exhausted wife. In most cases, this doesn’t mean the papa will turn to his daughter sexually, though it surely, tragically, maddeningly does happen more often than we like to think about. But he may find himself relying more and more on the affirmation he gets from his adoring baby girl.
A wife’s affection needs to be earned anew each day; it requires a husband (I’m writing this, of course, from a heterosexist perspective) who can pull his weight in housework and childcare and the emotional maintenance of the family. Marriage is, as we are invariably reminded, hard work. Getting a small child to adore you is not anywhere near so difficult.Many husbands do tend to think that merely being married (or living together) entitles one to expressions of devotion from one’s partner.They buy into a myth about men and women, one that suggests that it’s a woman’s job to soothe, to affirm, to encourage, and to manage her husband’s emotions. Think of the execrable bestseller by Dr. Laura, The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. Dr. Laura often suggests that if a woman doesn’t validate “her man” well enough, then she’s to blame if he looks for that validation somewhere else. Men have needs, Dr. Laura insists, and the greatest need they have isn’t for sex, but for a woman’s affirmation and admiration. If they aren’t getting that from their wives, they will invariably find it from another woman.
Men’s capacity to self-soothe is just as great as women’s, and women’s need for affirmation is just as great as men’s. That ought to be a given. But Dr. Laura does speak for a great many people who have bought into this delusionary understanding of what it is that men are entitled to. And men who do believe that they are being deprived of what is rightfully theirs may indeed go elsewhere. Disastrously, for fathers of daughters, that “elsewhere” may be to their little girl. Again, that doesn’t mean physical incest in every, or even most, instances. What it means is that a great many dads (and it wasn’t until I became a father to a girl myself that I realized how common this was) start to rely more and more on the simple intensity of their daughter’s love rather than doing the much more difficult work to remain connected with their wives. I’m certainly not saying every father of a daughter does this, but it is common — and if you ask the mothers of daughters, as I have, you’ll hear plenty of anecdotes about this.
Princess culture is huge for little girls, as surely anyone who spends time around children between three and eight knows. I’m convinced that princess culture is in part fed by fathers’ longing for validation. After all, princesses need princes; giving your daughter her princess fantasy is a way for a man to feed his own longing to feel like a handsome prince, indispensable and heroic and good. The gulf between the “handsome prince” in his daughter’s eyes and the loved but decidedly imperfect man in his wife’s eyes grows greater and greater. All the more reason to do what more than one man I know has done, and spend one’s family time basking in a daughter’s affection — and then, after the kids have gone to bed, spend time compulsively using internet pornography. And of course, there’s almost no time spent actually engaging, face-to-face and eye-to-eye, with one’s wife.
This doesn’t mean that we won’t ever let Heloise dress up as a princess. But it does mean that as devoted to my amazing, lovely, grace-filled daughter as I am, I’m very clear that in that relationship, validation needs to be a one-way street. Plenty of daughters grow up with a sense that they are somehow responsible for taking care of their fathers emotionally, for being the good and understanding woman in his life (as opposed to the mother/wife figure, who is invariably cast as judgmental and cold.) To do this to a daughter is child abuse, and I am determined not only not to do it myself, but to call out other fathers of daughters when I see the signs of what can only be called emotional incest.
Heloise may or may not choose to play at being a princess as she gets a bit older. (We’ll neither forbid nor encourage it.) But in her little games, I will not play the part of the prince. I’m a father, and that is something utterly and wonderfully different. And if I need validation, I need to go and get it from my equal, my peer, and my partner — the spouse who will make me earn that validation, as she should.
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photo: marismith/flickr
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92 Comments on "You’re Not Your Daughter’s Handsome Prince"
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in the above article the daughter’s age is merely 8-10 yrs. can anyone tell me if emotional incest can be performed by a divorced father on his 17-18 yr old daughter? please reply asap
so what can a daughter(16-17 yrs) do on her part to solve this problem of emotional incest especially when her father is divorced or single if she is experiencing this thing in her family? i mean she obviously can’t talk to her father about this, saying “dad, stop incesting me emotionally.” mr. hugo has given a problem of fathers doing this to their daughters, but can anyone tell me how can a daughter avoid this on her part? please feel free to answer this question if anybody has come up with any ideas.
[…] I’m noticing more and more these days that we women (my perfectionist, Virgo self included) have a hard time letting go of being a ‘good girl.’ You know, the one all in pink who sits quietly in church, never tells a lie and is the apple of daddy’s eye? […]
Freddie Kruger and Holger Dick are the best.
Oops. Failed to delete my last word salad sentence. Editor – if you can. please do. Thanks!
Hi, Liz —
See above. “This” meant, roughly, the whole dynamic I was describing, where older guys could be close to their daughters more easily than to their wives.
On the “Sexual abuse is bad” front, we’re in agreement.
I recognize — from my disastrous experiences dating a couple different single dads of teenage daughters — that emotional incest is a real problem. However, I disagree agree with this author’s presumption that unconditional love is not necessarily available to a spouse – whether male or female — from the other spouse. Don’t get married if you are not madly in love and you don’t adore your spouse above all others. Don’t get married if you are not able and willing to demonstrate to your spouse your love and admiration freely, easily and often.
This is a manufactured issue to pick on men. Where/when has any relationship expert documented this supposed father/daughter issue as being the cause of a large percentage of major problems between husbands and wives, but not the same mother/son issue?
Eric M. – Actually, the mother/son issue causes more problems than the father/daughter issue, however, both can be traced back to husbands not loving their wives properly. I cited the dysfunctional mother/son issue in a prior port on this thread.
“both can be traced back to husbands not loving their wives properly.”
So, all marital problems are 100% because of “husbands not loving their wives properly?”
That could only be true if all wives are literally perfect. What evidence do you have to substantiate that?
Here I thought that the common problem was that men tend to be emotionally withdrawn, and that children often miss the intimate contact with their fathers. And yet Hugo adds his voice to the chorus telling fathers not to get too close to their children, waving around that vague suspicion on pedophilia for men who “like their children too much”.
Don’t buy it, fellas. Shower your girls (and boys) with love. It’s one thing kids can never have to much of.
Typo: Jews’ deaths (not death).
“The issue that Hugo cites: Skipping over one’s wife or husband and developing the much easier love/cherish relationship with one’s children, at the detriment of one’s marriage relationship (which comes drip by drip, until the marriage goes over the cliff), is something to be careful and aware of.”
If this were truly how it was presented, I doubt if anyone would have much of an argument. But, the argument isn’t presented in a balanced, rational way. It’s got the trademark anti-male prejudiced spin, obscuring any potential valid thought. Any argument wrapped in prejudice and will lose any value it may have.
“So, this falls into the category of Good Things, Taken Too Far, Can Become Bad. (An example is peace at all costs, becomes appeasement, like Chamberlain’s enabling of Hitler -> 6 million Jews’ death.) ”
Godwin’s Law is vindicated again.
That’s not what he said. Don’t pretend you all don’t understand his article. He did an excellent job .
Great post, Hugo. I see this dynamic play out in much of the family work I’ve done. As others said, I do see it on the other side too: mothers using sons to meet their needs.
I do think the potential sexual dynamic is different, given how women are sexualized globo-socially, resulting in greater levels of father-daughter incest. But that’s aside from the point you are making.
Anytime a child is used to feed the emotional soul of a parent/adult, there are negative results.
The Pressmans of Rhode Island, who wrote “The Narcissistic Family, Diagnosis and Treatment,” cite that parents who require their children to meet their adult emotional needs (which is the opposite of the proper order of things – it’s parents who should be nurturing their children), end up creating the next generation of narcissists. The children are, in essence, used up….drained….their cores are not infilled. And then, these empty cores become encapsulated as they age. Voila. Narcissists beget narcissists.
I haven’t read that book but thank you for the very interesting info.
Narcissists beget narcissists
sorry, confused by what you mean by your reply. I found the information that Danna referenced in her post to be thought provoking and interesting so I thanked her for it.
Single-parent families, especially, create an emotional environment in which human beings are prone to unintentionally slip into such distorted and confusing cross-generational relationships.
[…] You’re Not Your Daughter’s Handsome Prince (Against Emotional Incest) […]
I’m not buying the statement that Hugo knows men who spend their family time basking in their daughter’s affection then compulsively using internet porn all night.
Guy 1- “so Bob, how was your evening?”
Guy 2- “Pretty good Mark! I selfishly let my daughter lavish me with affection then went on a 6 hour 4Loko fueled porn bender after she went to bed!”
Does ANYONE have conversations like this? We’re treading into the realm of the ridiculous.
It’s ridiculous to you only because you must not have intersected with this type of behavior. (That makes you lucky.) It’s way more prevalent than you think. (Except men who do this don’t confer with each other about it. They do it under the radar for the most part.)
“It’s way more prevalent than you think. (Except men who do this don’t confer with each other about it. They do it under the radar for the most part.)”
If this statement is true, what is your evidence? Or, did they just teach you this in Gender Studies?
Sorry but I cant’ find any evidence here that quantifies your statement. All you’ve listed is a story of one accused man (although he denies it). But, even if he’s guilty, that doesn’t show that he fits the description in this male-bashing article.
Jean,
Based on your statement, your evidence is based on selected blog postings and your own opinion. Got it.
haha. nailed.
“I will not play the part of the prince. I’m a father, and that is something utterly and wonderfully different.”
Don’t worry. When she is a sullen and hostile teenager, there will be no risk of her thinking of you as a prince.
Touche! Pretty funny and true, too, M!
[…] last column, You’re Not Your Daughter’s Handsome Prince focused on father-daughter relationships, warning my fellow dads against seeking emotional […]
[…] last column, You’re Not Your Daughter’s Handsome Prince focused on father-daughter relationships, warning my fellow dads against seeking emotional […]
Danna, please don’t let these males, get you to turn on women, when this blog is really about men and daughters. Sister girl, please be strong and keep focused. These men are angry because their male pride has been attacked. Don’t turn it around on women. We will discuss women on another page.
I’m waiting on the creation of the Total Douchebag Speaks column, where we can stash this asswipe’s garbage.
hear hear.
Wow, what hot tempers some of us have. Please don’t use offensive language on this blog.
Thank you for writing this. I believe this type of behavior is a manifestation of the objectification of women and girls, and that we are so immersed in this culture that many men have never learned to relate to a woman as a human/emotional peer, instead holding women to an ideal of perpetual beauty and kindness. A pretty little thing or an object that exists solely to make him feel good.
As a father of daughters and long time husband of my first and only wife, I can’t begin to explain how ridiculous and misandristic this opinion is.
Dean of the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, Roger Martin, was speaking on design thinking when he shared:
“The two most dangerous two words to innovation are ‘prove it,’ because nothing new can be proven in advance. It can only be proven over the passage of time.”
This idea, meant to be applied to business innovation, can be applied to all paradigm shift needs, including gaining clarity on how important a husband’s and father’s love, cherish, respect, and authenticity, in it’s proper order and amount, is.
Statistically, 0% of marriages end in divorce because fathers are too close to their children. Hence, the writer’s entire philosophy here is out of touch with reality or motivated by something other than a desire to help fathers. LACK of closeness and support is far, far, far more likely to cause marital strife than too much.
Eric, I respectfully disagree, however, you are somewhat more correct when it comes to a father loving his daughters (appropriately) over a father loving his sons, as a counter indicator that the marriage will end in divorce.
Reason: A marker of a male abuser / narcissistic sociopathic husband is his heavily favoring male children.
Also, there’s no one keeping statistics on this. Any stats on this subject would be anecdoctal, and not “scientific.”
Reasons for divorce are published in quite a few places. If closeness to children was a cause above 0%, there would be evidence of it somewhere but there isn’t.
“Reason: A marker of a male abuser / narcissistic sociopathic husband is his heavily favoring male children.”
The same is true of female abuser narcissistic sociopathic wives w/r/t to female children.
Donna —
I concur with your remarks about the value of a father’s love. However, I don’t see why you imagine an understanding of that value has anything to do with any “paradigm shift.”
The lifelong value to a girl from the love of a good dad is nothing new whatsoever.
LOL!!
Th
It’s 2012. Why not join us?
Eric: Your key words: “…my first and only wife…”
I applaud you. You most likely are loving your wife and daughters just fine, and in the proper amounts and order of priorities, which is why you can’t relate to that which Hugo writes.
It will take a leap of empathy to believe that a component of many divorces is a husband’s taking the path of least resistance to get his emotional needs met by his daughter’s worship, (as daughters do), instead of by continuing to woo his wife, which is much harder.
A lot of distorted weirdness in that presumptive remark, “much harder” for a man to woo his wife . . .
You make it sounds as if wives are battle axes!
You make it sound as if fathers find pleasure in courting their own child.
I disagree with your point of view of husbands and wives.
So, this has nothing to do with fathers relationship with their sons or daughters. If there is a problem in the marriage, it will be manifested in other ways.
I’m not a huge fan of Freud, but a lot of people give credence to BOTH the Oedipus Complex and the Electra Complex. I saw both at play in my family growing up.
Media Hound, stop taking the light away from men.
Oh man, you got to love when people starting quoting movies as the basis of their beliefs.
Joanna, it is a movie, iow , it isn’t real. Why would you equate a movie (fiction) to something in reality.
Movies often tend to be a mirror of the broader culture or society, so it’s not totally unheard of to use pop culture as a comparison to how people relate to each other in real life.
Thank you, Joanna, for bringing up The Philadelphia Story. I’m a literary/cultural critic and teacher who is getting more and more into cinema now. As my scholarship often deals with gender/sexuality, I’m always pleased to find a book or movie that can help me in my work and my understanding of the way the world works.
Excellent article, so true! Some men often seek for validation from their daughters and the image of “daddy´s litlle girl”. As I grew up I realized in certain way that I wouldn´t be my dad´s “young wife” (speccially once he got divorced) .
Aagblog —
I’m just curious. Were you still married to this fella when you disregarded his desire to receive a phone call from home every day that he was away on a business trip?
L.
Sounds like you’re entitled yourself wanting him to initiate everything. Have you pushed him away, I think that’s the case most of the time when a man closes himself off. At some point being nice to your wife only makes her resent you more.
Sorry this is 2 years ago, but I must say, thatI love you Danna, platonically. I love my man the other way. (ha ha ha )Thank you …, thank you …. Thank you.
What you wrote was so needed. It is indeed time to stop blaming wives.
Wonderful. Wonderful!!!
Please update this blog. I have really enjoyed reading here
Liz, tell us you are kidding. Men normally don’t want their women to be overbearing, so why the sudden change. When he is at home, he doesn’t want her to nag him, so why now??????
Nagging is different from affection, nagging is trying to manipulate someone into doing something by domination. I tell you do.