She thinks real friendships don’t have boundaries. The GMP Relationship Rx. Team begs to differ.
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Dear GMP: Known my SO for 2.5 years as a friend. Got into an exclusive relationship 5 months ago.
He has lived next door to the same person for 18 years. She is a divorced woman. Same age. They have a very close relationship in that they have gone on walks, to movies, to dinner, watched each other’s kids grow up etc. They text or message almost daily, several times a day. They have never been intimate.
Before he and I got involved intimately, I told him that I was not comfortable with their level of interaction and she would need to back off. He assured me that she would once we were in a relationship. She has not. It continues. One day while I was at his house for 12 hours, she either knocked on the door or messaged 7 times. 7 times in 6 hours. I got upset. She has messaged me and tried to start trouble between us. I showed him her messages and told him she is not being much of a friend if she is trying to start trouble. It continued.
He suggested we go to a Counselor. We did that. Counselor said we needed to set boundaries, he needed to tell her what they were and he needed to enforce them. We did that a couple weeks ago. She has since replied that true friendships do not have boundaries and she was not going to be a part of it. So she still does as she pleases and refuses to stay within the boundaries.
What next??
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Dr. Shannon Kolakowski replies:
When someone refuses to honor the boundaries you set, the next step is often to discontinue the relationship. Sometimes it’s a temporary break, sometimes it’s permanent. He can tell her that until she respects the boundaries he set, then there can be no friendship and no communication.
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To end the relationship means to not engage with the other person. This means if she texts, no answer– or block her number. If she knocks on the door, don’t answer. Her behavior will eventually stop. If it doesn’t, he can look into moving to a different neighborhood. Not responding to someone is the clearest way to set a boundary– it shows you are not including them in your life while the inappropriate behavior continues.
If your significant other isn’t comfortable doing this, that’s his choice. But in that case, this means he will lose you. That’s your boundary to set with him.
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Honor Dads, A GMP reader, offers his take:
Boundaries are based on the knowledge that human beings are created to act responsibly within their free will. When we don’t, we become controlled (or controlling), guilty, powerless, and in some cases, addicted. You said she “does as she pleases and refuses to stay within the boundaries.” Healthy boundaries aren’t a “time-out” that she can wiggle out of like a petulant 4 year old. They are about owning your own space, and your actions when that space is violated. They’re also about effectively communicating how that other person’s behavior affects us without placing blame. Here’s a good formula – make some quiet time to write it out:
1) “When you…” (describe their specific behavior)
2) “I feel…” (briefly and honestly describe how it makes you feel or makes you react)
3) “What I want is…” (describe the do-able desired behavior from that person)
4) “I’m ultimately only responsible for me, so the next time this happens, I will…” (briefly spell out YOUR next steps in response to THEIR action).
A healthy boundary is also not a threat – though she probably won’t like it. She doesn’t have to. You are reclaiming the power of your decisions, and that makes some folks uncomfortable. To start, practice healthy boundary setting in your new committed relationship. Then when you’re up to re-visiting your issues with her, talk it through with your SO as team. Good support systems make for better boundaries and he’s obviously an important part of the solution. Learn more by searching for Dr. Henry Cloud, who has written a number of great books on the subject.
GMP readers are welcome to offer their two cents. Email [email protected] if you’re interested.
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Learn more about the GMP Relationship Rx. Advice Column.
Photo: Conway L/Flickr
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To my mind, no matter how lengthy the friendship, if the guy has tried to set boundaries with this woman now, present day, this year, this week, this hour, then she needs to respect that. Friends care about each other, friends respect each other’s needs and changing lives (where needs alter naturally according to life events). Basically this woman is not his friend, she has become emotionally dependent on him, probably wants him, and will destroy every relationship he tries to have. Friendships are free and flowing, they are about mutual regard and respect. She does not respect him or… Read more »
I am obviously a male, married. My best friend was a female from high school. She crossed the boundary expressing she wanted sex. I said no. She honored that. However my wife was furious and demanded I end the relationship. I struggled deeply with this as she was a dear friend who brought me so much insure and advice that I simply have never been able to replace. I ended the friendship as my wife demanded and I’ve resented it because my wife has a male best friend. I’ve never demanded she end it or invaded their relationship. I believe… Read more »
I know this is nearly two years ago, but can I just offer my thoughts as this kind of happened to me (I’m the wife, tho). The fact that your friend would even ask that in the first place is a blatant disrespect of your wife. Why stay friends with someone who disrespects the person you love? You’re married. I assume you love your wife. You’re purposely putting yourself in a situation (with the friend) that you know is wary. She stopped asking for sex now..what happens on the day that you’re having a fight with your wife? I’m not… Read more »
Boundaries are the fence we erect not to keep others out, but to delineate our own space. We are the sole enforcer– it is not up to those we set boundaries with to respect them, unless they do it of their own volition because they want to remain in our lives. In the original letter–“Counselor said we needed to set boundaries, HE needed to tell her what they were and HE needed to enforce them. WE did that a couple weeks ago.” The SO in this relationship is the one to set the boundaries with HIS old friend. The current… Read more »
What has the response of the guy in all this been? The friend is said to have violated these boundaries… to me this is unfair if the man has been complicit as well. I can imagine him saying ‘I didn’t want to go have drinks with her, but she insisted!’, in which case it’s his fault for not committing to the boundary and patronizing both women. Without key information about the guy in this situation there’s no real sense of who needs to change what. He could be a duplicitous ass. Or the girlfriend could be overreacting, or the friend… Read more »
Reading all those comments…unbelievable. The one who is violating boundaries is the new GF. This is a close friendship of 18 years ! And everyone thinks its ok she should just…back off ? From a friendship ?
I think you have all lost your human instincts and decency.
Since when does sleeping with someone mean you can control who they are seeing ?
So basically you are ruining a very good friendship, because you are not comfortable with people being close? Get a life…
“HPD lies in the dramatic cluster of personality disorders.[3] People with HPD have a high need for attention, make loud and inappropriate appearances, exaggerate their behaviors and emotions, and crave stimulation.[3] They may exhibit sexually provocative behavior, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and can be easily influenced by others. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder
Great article with practical useable advice. I hope the trio work it out.
It seems there were expectations on this woman that the friendship will turn into something else. She clearly is not getting that now he is in a relationship and that he needs space to develop that relationship. The best course of action is to be very honest about how her behavior is affecting him and his GF. The best course of action is to tell her that until she start respecting those boundaries the friendship will be pout on hold; and he has to actually stop contact with her. If he doesn’t then the new GF has to make a… Read more »
I agree with you, I think she had expectations and going by her behaviour doesn’t have much self-respect really. Someone who cares about him on any level will respect his boundaries and wishes. Someone who cares only for herself, feels entitled to him, and has very little self-control will continue to overstep. It’s why I wondered if he was afraid of her because she seems a bit obsessive and like she’s enjoying einding the girlfriend up (you know, with the length of the friendship, shared history etc.). I think, if he’s serious about setting boundaries with this woman, he may… Read more »
I agree as well. This level of violation is emotionally abusive and bordering on sociopathic. While women whose boundaries are being violated by men do have this issue compounded by obvious physical differences and the general nature of living in a misogynistic culture, men suffering the emotional abuse and violation of boundaries by women needs to be equally validated and their mental and emotional integrity respected.
I’m curious, if you honestly think that men need to be equally validated, why did you feel the need to mention “…women whose boundaries are being violated by men do have this issue compounded by obvious physical differences and the general nature of living in a misogynistic culture,” Why was it neccessary to bring female victims into the discussion? You’re acting like this is new information, it isn’t. It’s distracting and I’m sure you don’t appreciate it when people bust in on discussions of female victims with “but men!” comments. Actually, in this case it’s possibly even more irritating because… Read more »
I dated a guy like this, who was super close with a woman. Which is great and all but ultimately I decided I wasn’t into it. She would call at all hours while we were together and seemed to be the third person in our relationship. I did not feel bad when I broke it off. Some people may be ok with this but I did not feel like we were e er as close as we could be because she was always around, literally, figuratively, etc.
Do what works for you.
Some people may be ok with this but I did not feel like we were e er as close as we could be because she was always around, literally, figuratively, etc. Do what works for you. agreed, this couple’s value systems are so different, that unfortunately im not sure about this relationship’s viability. this is very similar to people who have very close, consuming, relationships with family members, with which some romantic partners struggle to accept. this couple seem to have a fundamentally different approach to life in this key area. the question is LW: what do you and your… Read more »
edit:
i meant to delete,’ even if the woman backs off, the lw will probably have’
If a man did this he would be in jail with a restraining order waiting when he got out.
I agree, Wes. I do think women are given far more leeway in terms of violating boundaries then men are. That’s a good point. Probably worthy of an article. Let me know if you’d be interested in writing about it. My email is included on the right hand side of this post,
Thanks for the offer. I really appreciate it, but Helen Smith covered it far better in her book Men On Strike. Or check out http://www.pjmedia.com/drhelen for more on this.