“Did you get a sense of where she was at already before introducing what was wanted next?”
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Dear bro, We don’t know each other. I first heard of you on reddit when your wife posted your spreadsheet. I watched as your attempt to hurt her blew up on the Internet and in your face. Though we’ll probably never meet, I can say this for sure, I’ve been you, I feel you, and this isn’t going to get better before it feels worse. Here are a few things to hopefully help on the hard road ahead.
1. It’s ok to feel hurt, to feel lonely, and to feel rejected. It is hard to pursue sex, to achieve the union of people, souls, and passion. This is one of the loftiest goals and one of the most innate and primal desires. You are not bad for wanting it. Maybe no one ever told you that before. Maybe you’ve only heard sex discussed or even had it as an expected end result. It is more than that; it is the chance to be human and god, spirit, and animal. It is a transformational experience every single time. Every one. Seriously. As such, it is wrapped in many barriers, including our own skill and ability to connect.
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Learning how to sense an up or a down vibe in your partner before asking, for anything, is a big part of keeping a union flowing strong and groovy in and out of the bedroom.
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2. That brings me to my next point–connection. I don’t know what your life is like day to day with your wife. Your sheet reduced your interactions to a sketch of two stick figures, one asking a question and the other either saying yes or no accompanied by an investment in something other than you.Looking at that, I’d say if you wanted to get to a yes, if you wanted to enter her body and connect on a visceral level, to feel her against you– what did you do to connect to her as an entity in the room first? Did you get a sense of where she was at already before introducing what was wanted next? There were several entries where you mentioned her saying she had just worked out and felt sweaty. Here’s the thing. Working out can release some of the same pleasurable brain chemicals that vigorous sex can. You may have inadvertently been asking her to ramp up when she was already in a recovery zone. Simply put, it might have been like her asking for you to hop to it right after you just came. Learning how to sense an up or a down vibe in your partner before asking, for anything, is a big part of keeping a union flowing strong and groovy in and out of the bedroom.
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3. You were hurt and dismayed. You felt like less than a man. I can go off here about sexism and expectations, how you need to grow up and not look to sex to validate you. I could but I’m not going to do more than mention that briefly because you know what, I get it. All that stuff is heady. It’s political. It’s not where you were at when you sent your sheet.
The thing you need to know is you can never achieve anything with someone by tearing them down.
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Where you were probably at was feeling less than, feeling small, feeling unheard and uncared for in the way you wanted. So you did what many people do in their low moments. You lashed out. You picked a moment when she would have many things on her mind besides you to channel a portion of your hurt at her. You wanted her to feel as injured as you’ve felt till now. If she wouldn’t give you pleasure, she would share your pain.
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I get it but let me tell you now, that road never contains joy again. Whether you two work it out or start over, know this: you will feel many challenging moments with one another. People are challenging. Partners are challenging. Sex is challenging. The thing you need to know is you can never achieve anything with someone by tearing them down. It’s that simple. It’s always your job to not only have wants, dreams and desires but to inspire the best in those how’ve partnered with you. Even when, and especially when, they are not seeing the dreams you dream of. Anything short of that is going to leave you feeling like a boy stomping your feet yelling “It’s not fair!” Is that the self-image you want? You won’t always get what you want but you can always choose how grand and substantial you choose to present yourself as you go for it.
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Follow @Orin_Explains
Other Articles on GMP by Orin J. Hahn at:
The Experience That Made Understanding Women Easy Enough for a Man
A Lifetime of Gifts Change Everything
Forgiveness: How to Move Forward
Photo: As seen in: Huffington Post, The Concourse, The Guardian
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Honestly I can not really tell from reading the spreadsheet whether or not he gives or gave her the chance to ‘desire’ him? Or, if he was trying to seduces her nicely and fulfill her sexual needs and help her to become aroused and ‘into it’. How can anyone tell? As a woman I admit there were times I gave lame ass excuses to my Ex husband not have sex, but when I finally addressed the reasons why he was already angry. That was my fault. And to make problems worse, fact is when I went through this, he always… Read more »
Nicely done, Orin. He was a dick for publishing it, but it captured so much of what we men, and the hungry ones, feel frequently. You’re point about his efforts, his timing, and him not *ever* getting what he was after by tearing down his wife… Brilliant.
So where is the letter to the woman who did the same thing a few weeks later when her husband kept refusing her sex? When her friends said that she was justified for doing it because he wasn’t taking care of her needs, where were the Tumblr feminists to remind her that she’s not entitled to his body? Why does the woman get the majority sympathy in both cases?
I think I know the answer…
Orin, I think this was a great article and that drew upon a lot of important topics. Point of clarification for those who advocate for the whole “well, it makes sense for him to keep track of her responses and share it with her so that they could have an open communication about their sexual lives and basically show that she is not being fair” (@men) For those of you who feel way, imagine that your wife/girlfriend/significant other kept track of every time you both had sex and she did not have an orgasm. Then imagine you her making a… Read more »
@natsume06, Regarding your point of clarification for men: 1. As many already has pointed out, it makes a world of difference if it is a subject that he already has brought up, or has tried in vain to bring up to discussion, or not. 2. None of the women I’ve had sexual relations with, have ever been shy to be vocal about any temporary shortcomings or disappointments in my performance regarding her satisfaction. So, receiving a spreadsheet like this would hardly contain any news for me. It would more probably be a confirmation about my nonexistent ability to do anything… Read more »
I think Orin has written a really good piece. I really do.
I have just one little irk with it. It is very easy to read it as having a built-in presumption that this was the first step the guy took to actually trying to communicate around the current state of the relationship. I don’t know anymore about that than anyone else, but in my mind it’s highly unlikely that he hasn’t actually tried to broach the subject in some kind of way, and had his concerns more or less dismissed.
I like charts and lists too, but charting the times they did have sex, and what the circumstance was would have been more constructive. Charting times he asked and she was into it makes it about him, and you only have complete control over yourself. Only recording the results you don’t want is accusatory and makes not having sex “her fault” instead of looking at the picture as a whole and learning from it. Being handed a list of the times you didn’t give someone the access to your body you owe them is incredibly insulting and not likely to… Read more »
You write that sex ‘is the chance to be human and god, spirit, and animal. It is a transformational experience every single time. Every one. Seriously. As such, it is wrapped in many barriers, including our own skill and ability to connect.’ If you’re right – and there’s a lot of people out there saying that you are – this is what makes those of us in low sex or no sex relationships want to scream with frustration. We share with you this high ideal, of joy, of total sharing, of fusion of souls. And we’re not getting any of… Read more »
Excel has a database function. He should have used that instead. I would want to know how many times I’d missed sex because of a Friend’s episode, and counting the entries on a flat sheet is very crude.
This list was not mean to communicate a problem with his wife, it was meant as the reason why he is filing for divorce to his wife. He sent the XLS and stopped answering her calls because he is done. Its a little dick but he was done the second he started the spreadsheet and this was just a way for him to see if there was anything worth saving.
Get real people, the spreadsheet isn’t likely the first attempt to show her the problem. She probably claimed they had sex enough. She probably denied having excuses. The author of this article can speak about his failing to connect with her, but that goes both ways. If its come to building a spreadsheet to prove your case, that also means she hasn’t done jack to maintain their connection either. Or do you take the sexist view that its all on the man? Where are her attempts at building connection and sexual intimacy? If all my efforts toward her are rebuffed,… Read more »
I think one of the (many, MANY) disturbing aspects to this spreadsheet, for me, is the amount of time in advance that he spent diairising these encounters. I can’t imagine anyone would be able to remember, dates, times and details so specifically, so we must assume he was keeping this diary for about 6 weeks – already disgruntled, plotting and scheming and waiting for the opportunity to prove his point – before handing it over to her. So we have a guy who is, on one hand asking his wife for sex, and on the other, hoping she says ‘no’… Read more »
“So we have a guy who is, on one hand asking his wife for sex, and on the other, hoping she says ‘no’ so he can add it to his spreadsheet, prove himself satisfyingly right and her wrong. (…) So imagine the dynamic that set up for those six weeks in June/July 2014? His energy, his attitude, his body language. I’m stunned she was able to convince herself to sleep with him once, let alone three times. She might actually be a freakin’ saint!”
Good point right there.
As someone who makes spreadsheets for reasons I’m not entirely sure of (I have spreadsheets comparing grocery costs at different locations, spreadsheets keeping track of what books I’ve read, spreadsheets of fruits and veggies and their benefits and a few more ), I really don’t think him making a spread sheet is a big deal, keeping track of how he had been turned down. I actually get why he did that part of it. And I don’ t think she should have posted it for all the world to see. But I do think that he probably didn’t encourage her… Read more »
For once I agree with you.
I do suspect that sex had become something of a bitter topic and no doubt other things going on that we can’t know.
This is also not a new thing. However this is really just gossip and there sex issues are non of our concerns.
When this was happening to me I was tempted to make such a chart. People are making a lit of assumption about this guy and I dont think they are fair.
When I was a manager, I used to document things also. People were surprised when I gave them a review that I provided examples instead of just a rough analysis of what I believed their performance was. The examples were partly for them, but also for me. I wanted to be certain that I was being fair. I think that’s where he’s coming from. He wants to make sure that it isn’t “just his imagination”.
If there is anyone without grace, it’s her. He only sent the spreadsheet to her and it could’ve remained between them, fostering further communication to try to figure out the problem, a solution, or divorce if they couldn’t work it out. She is the one who sent the spreadsheet to the rest of the world in order to gain support in collectively bashing him!
What I wonder is this. Did he try to address this in any other way before doing the spreadsheet?
Orin nailed it!
While the trouble clearly is happening on both sides, one party is going to have to own up humbly, to the difficulties… if the other can join in, then there’s hope… if not, well, then they’ve already left the building.
You have to document these things because women don’t remember (or cop to remembering) what they do or say when it comes to other people or situations that they are unhappy with. If it was after a day or two, forget it. They will never remember what they say or do (unless its what you do to them – their memory is crystal clear then). I’ve often thought of writing it down so that they can remember but haven’t went through with it. Good for him!
Nice piece. Avoided a lot of the cliche crap I’ve been seeing out there on this subject. Well done.
I wonder about the connection they have that made a person log the data without any emotion. To me, that’s how you measure issues without getting too upset. Just write down what happened. And let’s not forget–he sent the email to her. She sent the email to the world.
This is ridiculous. Seems to me like he didn’t express himself very well, but this doesn’t look like a healthy relationship. We just have the spreadsheet, so it’s hard to say what’s really going on there. But, I don’t see you asking any questions about _why_ the spreadsheet in the first place. It seems like there’s probably been problems about this for quite sometime if a guy was willing to spend the time to make a spreadsheet to make the point. As far as validation goes. That’s BS. Sex is one of the few socially acceptable means of producing oxytocin… Read more »
there was an article on this case in salon over the last week. from what i recall in the comments, the wife is 26, travels alot for business. and that theyve not been having sex for a good number of weeks what was interesting was that while most of the notable women’s libbers commenters (who also tended to be over 30) didnt think too much of his spreadsheet, at all. they were also scathing at the wife for posting his intimate complaint to the net, and that she has already mentally left the marriage. after all, how can someone humiliate… Read more »
You forgot to mention he’s emotional abuse here – making the spreadsheet to try to shame and hurt her.
like most others on this thread i see the spreadsheet as a means to keep track off the rejections. it seems unlikely that he started logging immediately, so this probably has been going on for longer than 6 weeks. and considering after she received the sheet she immediately engaged in such a severe breech of trust – taken together both of her actions suggest she doesnt want to remain in the marriage. however even if i accept yr argument (which i dont). i see no equivalence in their behaviours, as others have said he sent the spreadsheet to her, but… Read more »
I’m not sure if this is personal for you or do you not know all the details. He sent the spreadsheet to her telling her that was the reason he wouldn’t miss her while she is gone. Afterwards, she tried to call him and he wouldn’t answer. As of her post, she couldn’t get in touch with him. She posted it online asking for advice. I don’t agree with that but that’s pretty common nowadays. She didn’t go on live TV and out him. She posted it on reddit then deleted it when it started spreading. Also, you act like… Read more »
her posting the spreadsheet was a deliberate attack and theres a good chance she deleted it, because people disagreed with its posting
“going without sex for long periods of time is not psychologically healthy”
Do you have proof of this? There are people who have lower sex drives or no sex drive at all (asexual) who are perfectly healthy. I’ve never been interested in sex and I am psychologically healthy. Not to imply that Mrs. Spreadsheet is asexual. I’m just offended at the notion at all people are supposed to want sex on a regular basis.
There is no proof. Many people go without sex for their whole lives and are extremely healthy. In fact, many people choose not to have sex to remain mentally focused.
because men aren’t permitted to work out or play sports? Phsyical activities have always been a mark of masculinity. and sports were an area in which women weren’t allowed to join in on in society so I’m at a loss as to your belief “that few socially acceptable means of producing oxytocin that men are typically permitted”. historically it was actually women who didn’t have acceptable means, not men. Those are the very things that produce this oxytocin you claim men can’t get from anything but sex. This sounds like an excuse to keep sex in the limelight… well its… Read more »
“Sex is one of the few socially acceptable means of producing oxytocin that men are typically permitted. Yes, there’s a few techniques that we could be using, but we’re not generally taught about that.” Gee Frank, what are you getting at here? Because from what I read, two proven ways to boost oxytocin in a woman are KISSING her and CUDDLING her. How are those not socially acceptable? I agree with Josh and Kare (above) – that the dude sought to shame and humiliate her. He was dumb to put such a thing in writing, especially if he sought to… Read more »