You say one thing. But what the rest of hear is something else entirely.
—
When you say, ‘I don’t believe in feminism, just gender equality…’
I hear:
“I want all of the benefits that come from gender equality, but wish to distance myself from the associated stigma that, through this very statement, I myself am propagating. My reasons are thoroughly selfish. This is most likely a selfish and intellectually dishonest act of image crafting. Respect that. Feminism means you have to respect that because I said so that’s why.““
And when you say, “Whatever. I just don’t believe in labels. Labels are used to divide people.”
I hear:
“I do not believe in words that have been stigmatized. By which, I mean that I do not want to apply any to myself.I will gladly, through this act of rejection, further stigmatize this word and the many millions of other people it applies to, because I think it will make other people like me more.”
And when you say, “I think it’s more inclusive to call myself a humanist, but not a feminist.* Feminism has become a bad word.”
I hear: “I surely mean well, and I make a completely valid point about connotative meaning in a living language. But I am incredibly naive about the future prospects of any other word chosen to represent the same concepts, particularly given my own willingness to cede the fate of its predecessor. I have also very likely prepared an incredibly moving speech about how marginalizing one of the most important forces of progress in human history somehow makes me more enlightened, inclusive and progressive than people who do not.”
If the statement is made by a woman, I note that they are quite often followed by:
“You, lady, are exactly the reason I do not want to be identified as a feminist. Here you are, pointing out how ridiculous I sound. That isn’t very feminist. Feminism means agreeing with all women, always. Except feminists.”
Or:
“You, sir, are a misogynist. Any man who disagrees with me is a misogynist. I just don’t want to be associated with feminists, because they go around saying ridiculous things, like calling all men who disagree with them misogynists. This is why I am not a feminist and you are a misogynist. Feminism means men agreeing with all women, always. Except feminists.”
Or: “You, sir, are a misogynist. How dare a man point out the denotative meaning of a word, to a woman, when that word is feminism? It is sexist to say that word to a woman. Besides, I already know what it means. I just don’t want to be associated with feminists, because they go around doing ridiculous things, like calling every man who disagrees with them a misogynist.”
If the statement is made by a man, I note that they are usually followed by a demonstration of social cognitive bias far too long to approximate here.
Well, sometimes they hear other things. When I told my friend Joanna Schroeder of The Good Men Project that I was about to write this post, she said, “Let’s also be honest about why some women don’t want to call themselves feminists: they’re afraid boys won’t like them!”
Sometimes I just hear, “I like to think of myself as purple.”
*Do note, of course, that the two are not mutually exclusive. Though there are several definitions of humanism, the one most people mean in this context encompasses feminism as a core belief. Nearly everyone who claims to be a humanist in this context is also, by definition, a feminist. It is the hesitance of so many people to acknowledge this that troubles me. For the record, I myself rather happily identify as both.
I’m noticing a lot of non-feminists defining feminism, and it seems to me that if you want an accurate definition of feminism, you should ask a feminist. Likewise, as a carnivore, it would be disingenuous of me to say that I would never become a member of PETA because PETA’s mission is to elevate the rights of animals at the expense of humans (it’s not). Or, as a litterbug, to say that I would never celebrate Arbor Day because Arbor Day promotes the reproduction of trees at the expense of humans (it doesn’t). So why, as someone who does not… Read more »
Frankly, I find your equivalences and your “carnivore” metaphors there to be bogus- I would point out that feminism is an ideology and/or an ideological affiliation: It is not an existential identity, nor a fixed objective quantity. With respect, a person can understand an ideology, its structuralism, and the idiosyncrasies in its manifestations & adherents without being an affiliate or a believer of it. It’s utterly false to suggest that the only people who understand and can negotiate an ideology’s framework & mechanics are its disciples and not its detractors. You’re suggesting that only insiders can understand and criticize, and… Read more »
Do you want to know what I hear when someone says, “I don’t believe in feminism, just gender equality”? I hear: “Feminists are right about one thing: gender roles are the problem, and both sides have grievances. But, no one should be feminists. Nor should anyone start calling themselves something ridiculous like a “Masculinist.” You can’t be for the rights of one side or the other. If you are truly for “equality,” you have to be for the rights of BOTH; you have to address every unfairness – whether it be an unfairness towards women, or an unfairness towards men… Read more »
I don’t call myself a feminist because feminism is structurally racist and white men have a louder voice in feminism than black women do – and most white female feminists are fine with that.
I don’t call myself a feminist because feminism is a creationist religion that imposes, on all cultures everywhere, a binary unidirectional model of gendered oppression that is based on racist white liberals’ understanding of how racism works.
I don’t call myself a feminist because white people (who have physically engraved their ideas into my flesh for centuries) insist that I must. Kunta. Kinte.
Your first mistake is bringing racism into an issue that affects everyone regardless of colour, culture, religion or race. Gender rights has NOTHING to do with race or racism & everything to do with the desire for men & women of all races to be able to enjoy equal opportunity, freedom & choice regardless of where they were born, the colour of their skin or what genitals they were born with. If you weren’t a racist yourself then you’d understand that the quest for equality is about equality FOR ALL; men & women from all races & all walks of… Read more »
There’s actually a legacy of racism and homophobia with feminism as within our culture generally, but I don’t think that legacy is worth dismissing the entire framework over. Intersectionalism is a relatively new area of study that seeks to identify and address these biases.
Would this same line of thinking be applied to the civil rights movement? I don’t hear people say they support equality of race but they don’t support the civil rights movement. Or people usually don’t say they can’t support the civil rights movement because of some of the extreme voices in the movement or because it’s “anti-white.” Would someone say they are a humanist and therefore can’t support civil rights activists because the movement isn’t inclusive enough?
I think it is a false equivalency there, and the wrong metaphor. Feminism, feminists, and feminist ideology are not the exclusive uniform impartial arbiters & guardians of equality, justice and ‘gender rights’ – They are not indispensable and interchangeable with ‘the civil rights movement’ – It’s like saying because Marxists and Marxism believe in social justice, then if you don’t believe in only their concise ideological interpretations of class and economic theory then you’re really not for social justice. Just because feminism views itself as the only legitimate portal for its notion of social justice does not simply make it… Read more »
“*Do note, of course, that the two are not mutually exclusive. Though there are several definitions of humanism, the one most people mean in this context encompasses feminism as a core belief. Nearly everyone who claims to be a humanist in this context is also, by definition, a feminist. It is the hesitance of so many people to acknowledge this that troubles me. For the record, I myself rather happily identify as both.” I can’t help but liken that to someone saying if you believe in one God and follow a morality code written in a really old book, then… Read more »
” “Let’s also be honest about why some women don’t want to call themselves feminists: they’re afraid boys won’t like them!”” Does it ever occur to feminists…that the reason so many women don’t want to call themselves feminists, is because feminism has PLENTY of BAD feminists who really add to the stigma of the label? And worse, the good feminists largely stay quiet and act like “not all feminists are like that”. Take a lesson from how muslims are acting right now in regards to ISIS, how so MANY of them distance themselves and call them out on their failings.… Read more »
“Men are only feminist to get laid”
Joanna, this is what you sound like.
I fight for men’s right, I fight for women’s right. And when media have a article about women craving respect or justice about something I might comment, and when I do that I’m being accused of being a feminist, whether I’m for gender equality or feminism. So men bully me for it anyways. So darn stupid.
How does a post like this get past the editors
Yes I have the answer
CLICKBAIT.
Strawman: The Article!
When you say, ‘I don’t believe in feminism, just gender equality…’ I hear: “I want all of the benefits that come from gender equality, but wish to distance myself from the associated stigma that, through this very statement, I myself am propagating. My reasons are thoroughly selfish. This is most likely a selfish and intellectually dishonest act of image crafting. Respect that. Feminism means you have to respect that because I said so that’s why.““ I’m curious how you managed to get all of that out of “I don’t believe in feminism, just gender equality…”. This sounds like you’re saying… Read more »
Let’s face it, even if “feminism” as a term had not been tainted by all of its less noble usurpation over time, it still has its etymology. “Fem-” means female, after all, in exclusion, and opposition of “andr-,” or male. This may not seem important to those who would define feminism as a pursuit of gender equality, but what it necessarily implies is that the pursuit of gender equality is defined by only female concerns of equality. It implies that women uniquely suffer from the inequalities of traditional “patriarchal” culture. In its infancy, this made perfect sense, since women were… Read more »
“During this time, however, they’ve endured a position of moral inferiority as the so-called “privileged” gender–men are bad for being unfair to women, and they are wrong for not just changing the status quo, since they hold all the power.”
Paul, this is a classic example of a traditionalist cultural norm posing as progressive. The Woman As Moral Guardian is a core feature of traditional gender norms. Ninni Tokan explored this a couple of years ago. http://www.pellebilling.se/2012/03/gastblogg-ninnitokan/
(Translation is near the bottom of this post: http://www.genderratic.com/p/1431/misogyny-%E2%80%93toxic-femininity/)
Well said.
So when somebody shares an opinion you disagree with, you imagine something they didn’t actually say in order to better reject it? Instead, why not just ask them to explain why they feel that way, listen to them and try to understand? From there, you could discuss your differences, sway them to your side or adjust your own beliefs.
Beautifully said, Michael. The listening part is always the difficult trick, yes? And its the only way to make peace and healing happen.
It is a challenge. Reacting defensively when someone disagrees with us is an easy trap to fall into. Curiosity can be one of our most powerful weapons against perceived threats to ourselves or our values.
When someone does that to a feminist its called a straw feminist.
Does that mean when its done to a feminist critic its a straw feminist critic?
If it’s the Andrea Dworkin version of Feminism, no thanks. Where do Libertarians fit into this scheme of things?
“Nearly everyone who claims to be a humanist in this context is also, by definition, a feminist.”
Except that the larger, louder, brasher stream of current feminist thought is all about advancing only women’s interests…….many times explicitly at the cost of men in general. Deep in the core of that stream is that women are inherently victims…….never needlessly cruel or callous.
But if you see all genders as equal, you need to see the good and bad of human nature as evenly dispersed …..not mainly the province of one or the other of the main gender streams
When I say “I believe in gender equality” I mean that I want social equality between male and female survivors of sexual and domestic violence. In particular I want male victims to be as visible and to have the same access to services as female victims. This puts me in opposition to a movement which has created and promoted services for women only and, by framing sexual and domestic violence as “violence against women”, has erased male victims. When I say “I believe in gender equality” I mean that I think that the violence that most often happens to men,… Read more »
That’s the beauty of democracy, we’e allowed to think and express what we want.
Doesn’t automatically mean you’re right, though.
I think the end of your first femsplanation because I said so that’s why pretty much sums up the whole article.
“Let’s also be honest about why some women don’t want to call themselves feminists: they’re afraid boys won’t like them!” I always find it troublesome when somebody frames any critique or rejection of their ideology (or religion) as logically, intellectually or morally illegitimate; that the only ‘honest” reason someone would reject it must therefore be based in fear, ignorance, wickedness, greed, or covetousness of power. Depending on how one or another person defines feminism, feminist ideology, and its structuralism there are plenty of legitimate reasons to dispense with its concise worldview and its gendered interpretations of causality. By the same… Read more »
Maybe you oughta get your ears checked then. You appear to have a hearing problem.
I am a woman and I DO NOT BELIEVE IN FEMINISM- in it’s current form!!! The reason the term “feminism” is stigmatized, as you claim, is because it is inconsistent with true gender equality. Most feminists are ONLY concerned about fighting for the rights and some extra privileges only for women- even (especially) at the expense of men and boys. They see a female:male ratio of 60% to 40% in terms of enrollment and graduation rate and they want the margin to be even wider by advocating for more girls and women to push out boys and men. They see… Read more »
Wow. Just wow. You rock. I try to be the kind of man who can see women with the same understanding and fellow human love that you have toward men.
My only quibble is that feminists cannot have it both ways. Either they are in it to fight for only the rights of women or they are for GENDER equality. If they are for the securing of women’s rights alone, they need to make that absolutely clear. And in that case, men have to form their own group to fight for their rights too in areas where THEY are disadvantaged (education, the misandrist sentencing system- males receive, on average, 63% stiffer penalties than women for committing the same crime, unemployment- the male unemployment rate is higher, homelessness- the overwhelming majority… Read more »
Right on. 50 years ago I would probably been willing to refer to myself as a feminist, but I’ve had way too many encounters with feminists using flawed studies and cherry-picked statistics to harm men. I’ve met too many that got giddy at the notion of castrating men and eliminating males from the gene pool. Not to mention the ones that advocate extremist positions like California’s new only yes means yes law to combat sexual violence without any interest in getting men’s opinions on the matter. Because we’re apparently all rapists. The word shouldn’t be important, it should be important… Read more »
While I agree that there are many concerns with many member of the feminist movement today that have made me wary about associating with the movement, have you actually read SB967 (the aforementioned “Yes means Yes” law?) There’s really nothing in there stunning or otherwise problematic. Colleges can still use preponderance of the evidence, like they always have, to address sexual assault cases. In a court of law, the prosecution would still be required to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not have affirmative consent from their partner. So it doesn’t even address the he-said, she-said. What’s… Read more »
“And if we do start seeing cases start cropping up where it starts going “well we were making out pretty heavily, and our hands were all over each other, but he didn’t verbally ask me if he could put his hands on my butt, so he sexually assaulted me” this law will get rescinded pretty quickly. ”
I doubt it. Before this law, the campus sexual assault case hearings were already a kangaroo court joke and that whole debacle didn’t get changed for the better.
That was more or less already the case. And you’re being rather naive if you think this is going to be enforced equally both ways. Rape laws have never been equally enforced anywhere that I know of.
They wouldn’t be pushing for this change if it wasn’t intended to make people who weren’t previously guilty guilty. And without any actual evidence that the change is needed or effort to provide protection for men that are accused, it’s basically just another feminist overreach.
You’re right – rape and sexual assault are typically not punished or pursued equally. And that sucks. I know far too many men who were also sexually assaulted and even raped. That’s wrong. But the fact is, more sexual assaults are committed by men; whether that be towards other men or towards women. Victims are victims, and the laws should protect all of them. Our society’s failures and prejudices does not mean that there is something wrong with the law, only the people participating in its enforcement.
Of course, in the letter of the law, they always try to make the language appear neutral and addressing both genders. In practice though, the applications of such laws are anything but neutral. A man who was Intoxicated during the course of having sex with a sober woman would be laughed out of the room if he wants to file charges much less a man who reports that his female partner did not ask for explicit consent. In a nutshell, yes, these laws are written using unbiased language but the application- which is what ultimately matters- only harms men, not… Read more »
My comments keep getting moderated (I think they’re too long) so I won’t respond point by point. For the most part, I agree with you. The law is just a law, it’s words – application is what matters, but the same problem is here today. That’s what awareness and advocacy are for. When it actually happens, people need to raise hell and keep raising hell and not let the issue disappear. The fact that the language explicitly identifies men and women (although at the same time excludes those who don’t identify as either…so yeah) instead of leaving it just as… Read more »
Amy, I couldn’t have said it better.
Wow. Your article single-handedly convinced me to re-up on my “not gonna call myself a feminist” thing. Great job! It doesn’t mean I won’t support my feminist friends and some major parts of the feminist agenda, but somebody has to keep the more reactionary proponents of feminism in check and I don’t see that coming from within the movement. If I did see it, that would be a different kettle of fish. But the extreme voices just keep on coming with too little being done by more mainstream feminists to confront those messages. A rigorous and intellectually honest critique of… Read more »
That’s actually what I hear when people say “I Don’t Believe In Feminism, Just Gender Equality…’. They’re stating an observation that feminism doesn’t “just” concern itself with equality. That problem stems from the rigid hierarchy of privilege that they espouse and how the seemingly make being male trump all other forms of privilege in every situation. Almost everything they do seems an attempt to marginalize men. Even when they recognize situations where women have an advantage that can’t be privilege that must be benevolent sexism as if sexism that advantages women is actually good. That’s the tricky part of trying… Read more »
Mark, I think you make a valid point here. There is so much value in feminism, but that value gets compromised when the extremists become seen as its mainstream voice. To the degree that those extreme voices are anti-male and not just pro-equality, feminism alienates the men who are needed to partner with women and work towards true gender equality.
I know this may trouble you to realize, but not everyone hears statements the same way you do because not everyone thinks the same way you do.
When someone says, ‘I don’t believe in feminism, just gender equality…’ I hear:
‘I don’t believe in feminism, just gender equality…’
And guess what? More and more people are hearing that statement the same way. You’re just going to have to deal with that.
Your opinion is completely valid; people are allowed to use or avoid whatever terms they please so long as they don’t mind clarifying their intended meaning. However, I think the point that the author is attempting to make is that by too easily giving up one term in favor of another, simply because those who disagree with a progressive social movement have begun attempting to portray it in a negative light, even a relatively small number of people can quickly lend undue legitimacy to these hyperbolic, negative portrayals and divide a community which shares a common goal at the same… Read more »
Exactly what avem said. Seriously Larry…
I agree with avern as well; The article itself just seems to be a roundabout way of saying that people who see it otherwise are either good-naturedly misguided, willfully obtuse, or just deluded. But whatever they may be, one thing it discounts out of hand is the notion that their reasoning, differentiation, and clarification there might actually be sincere, tangible, and well-founded.
Thank you. That is precisely right. While the definition of feminism may be the promotion of women to equality, that’s not what it sounds like to the very people that need to be reached. And – I believe that men having been forced to never have any femininity at the risk of being ridiculed and ostracized is wrong as well. Women aren’t the only ones who have suffered from a misogynistic and patriarchal society.
I hear “I don’t know what feminism actually means”, since the entire word is supposed to mean Gender Equality. Note though, I say supposed to, because so many people misinterpret the word. That being said I am one of the people that say I support Gender Equality… but you won’t hear me call myself a feminist. And that’s not because of some sort of stigma, though it may be apart of it. People equate feminism to do with females only, and there’s a point to be made that men also suffer from inequality (specifically with the legal system)… and while… Read more »
There are many things that men don’t have access to or are looked down upon because they are men. Eating disorders, rapechanging tables only in females restrooms… Finish sometimes forgets these things. That’s why many people want to be humanists because they want equality on all levels that are unbalanced in favor of the opposite gender.