The Unbelievable Secret to Getting More Sex

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Most people aren’t getting enough sex, and they don’t know what to do about it. Dr. NerdLove steps in to examine the problem and offer solutions.

One of the ongoing complaints I see amongst my readers and in society in general is sex. Most people aren’t getting laid enough… and they don’t know what to do about it. Whether it’s a case of chasing after numbers, finding a no-strings-attached hook-up, a lack of nookie in a committed relationship or even just managing to lose one’s virginity, it often seems like sexual fulfillment is something that happens to other people.

It’s a constant source of frustration, angst, even self-harm in men. It’s led men to drink, drugs and dodgy sub-reddits.

But no longer.

Today, I’m going to do something that nobody else has done: I’m going to give you the secret to getting all of the sex you can handle… and I’m giving it away for free ((So many jokes…)). No sales pitch. No “free-sample-now-pay-for-the-rest.” No dodgy links. Everything’s on the up and up.

I warn you now: it’s not going to be easy. But I think you’ll agree with me that it’s worth it.

Ready?

 

The Single Biggest Impediment To Sex

You want to know the main reason why sex seems so damned difficult to come by unless you’re one of the blessed few who seem to have an intrinsic grasp of social dynamics?

It’s women. Kinda.

More specifically: it’s the way that society has treated and socialized women for literallyhundreds and thousands of years. Over generations, society has placed barrier after barrier between women and their own sexuality. In fact, the dominant narrative for the last two hundred years has been that women are inherently the “purer” sex, the ones who are biologically inclined to monogamy, who are the less lustful of the species.

Women – and society – have been taught that sex is a masculine trait; men are satyrs who can barely control themselves while women are tasked with having to guard not only their own virtue but regulate men’s sexuality as well, because Lord knows men can’t, bless their hearts.

In fact, until relatively recently, female sexuality was an oxymoron. The idea that women evenwanted sex was a heretical thought.

 

Women As Non-Sexual Beings

It wasn’t always thus. In fact, in the western Classical Age, women’s sexuality was considered to be in many ways superior to men’s. In Ovid’s Metamorphosis,  Tiresias is called upon to settle a bet between Zeus and Hera: who gets more out of sex, men or women?1 After spending years transformed by the gods into a woman – never let it be said that the Greeks didn’t believe in rigorous study – Tiresias had an answer: a woman’s pleasure from sex wasnine times more intense than a man’s.

“Oh yeah? Well my satisfaction is OVER 9000!!!!”

Medicine and fertility treatments of the time – well up until the Middle Ages – focused on the importance, even necessity of women’s sexual pleasure in order to ensure conception… the female orgasm was considered to be as important, if not more so, than the man’s.

Not, mind you, that this meant that women’s sexuality was embraced or approved of. The madonna/whore dichotomy was well and truly in place early on. In the Talmud, Adam’s first wife Lilith is expelled from Eden for trying to take the superior role in sex – riding her husband rather than laying back and thinking of Babylon; after her expulsion she goes on to lay with the wild beasts of the desert and becomes the mother of demons. Eve’s sin – giving in to temptation – is the burden of all women. The Malleus Maleficarum – the official witch-hunter’s guidebook of the early modern Catholic Church – tells stories of lustful witches who steal men’s seed, stamina and even their genitals through sex. 

The idea of woman-as-insatiable-temptress lasted right up until the 19th century when suddenly the narrative shifted. Now it was no longer that women were lustful and needed to be controlled; now the story – especially promoted by proto-feminist movements and Protestant Christianity and eagerly adopted by Victorian England – was that women were the purer gender.

This idea would go on to shape not just the perception of women, but the understanding of human sexuality.

 

Science, Evo-Psych and The Power of the Cultural Narrative

We like to think that we’re a logical species – that we see the world with gimlet-eyed clarity and a belief in science and evidence above all else. After all, we’ve tamed the deserts, charted the oceans, harnessed the atom and conquered outer space… clearly we are a people of lucid cognition who see only what is real, untainted by superstition or cultural prejudice.

Except this isn’t true. We let confirmation bias control much of what we believe, even down toour science. Much of our belief about human sexuality – the importance and universality of monogamy, for example – stem from the Flintsonization of primitive cultures. Darwin was a notorious prude and this directly influenced his interpretations of evolution, as well as the interpretations of those who came after him. We ascribe modern morality and concepts to our paleolithic ancestors because we believe that it was always thus.

This is never more evident than in evolutionary psychology. The goal of evo-psych is to show that our modern behavior is inborn, that everything from whom we’re attracted to, to social dynamics, is born out of evolution instead of societal change. Women, for example, are built for monogamy and are less interested in sex in general – so the theory goes – because sperm is metaphorically cheap while eggs are expensive; there is less metabolic cost to men for producing sperm, while women not only generate the ovum, but place their health and safety at risk by bearing the child. It follows, then, that men are naturally not inclined to monogamy because their lizard-brains tell them that they need to spread their cheap sperm far and wide to better maximize their potential for offspring. Women, on the other hand, hold back sex in exchange for status, protection and resources; they want to maximize their individual offspring’s chances to survive… and sexual access is the currency they have to offer.

It’s a lovely theory, one that just feels right. We all know men are hornier than women after all…

Except it’s not true. Not only are women not less sexually inclined than men, but neither are they naturally monogamous. Female primates don’t actually trade sex for protection and support; in fact, it’s more beneficial for the female to mate with many males because of the way it obscures paternity and helps prevent the threat infanticide from males who might want to make her fertile again. Humans in particular are built for multiple partners; male genitalia and sexual response are designed to flush out the sperm of other males.

The “eggs are cheap” theory falls into a logical fallacy known as post hoc ergo propter hoc – “after this, therefor because of this”. It’s backfilling the origins of modern sexual behavior by establishing a seemingly logical “reason” for its existence. But we’ve seen over and over again that, in fact, human sexuality has far less to do with reproduction than evo-psych would have us believe.

We let the cultural narrative control how we see the world and that belief affects everything else. Scientists have long said that males of almost every species are the sexual aggressors, because we’ve long believed that males are the universally dominant gender. But because we believe this, we overlook evidence to the contrary. When we study animal reproduction, we often focus on the actual mating… but not on the behavior that leads up to it.

In his book What Do Women Want? Daniel Bergner interviews scientists who study sexual behavior in animals – and the results are interesting. Even in species as diverse as rats and rhesus monkeys, the female does the majority of the initiation for sex; rather than letting the pheromones produced by estrus do all of the work for her, she must entice the male into mating. More often than not, the male’s contribution to sex involves being a passive actor, only coming to action when called upon.

This blindness persists even into human sexuality. One of the biggest “discoveries” trumpeted around the Internet in 2009 was the stunning revelation that the human clitoris is actually much, much larger than previously thought – extending far into the body and actually bifurcating into branches and wrapping around the vagina like a pair wings.

… if I make a “Cthulu lies dreaming in sunken R’yleh” joke, ya’ll are going to kill me, aren’t you?

… if I make a “Cthulu lies dreaming in sunken R’yleh” joke, ya’ll are going to kill me, aren’t you?

Except… this wasn’t really news. In fact, this had been discovered and published in medical journals more than 11 years earlier when Dr. Helen O’Connoll studied the clitoris in an MRI. And yet, this fact was ignored in medical textbooks and anatomical illustrations until recently. For reference, the penis was mapped via MRI in the 1970s.  The clitoris was treated as a vestigal organ at best. While thousands upon thousands of pages have been written about penile surgery – especially about restoring or enhancing sensation, the majority of medical information regarding the clitoris and clitoral hood consisted of dermatology.

Why? Because the clitoris’ only purpose is sexual pleasure. And we, as a culture, continue to be incredibly uncomfortable with the idea of female sexuality or women having sexual agency.

Good Girls Go To Heaven/Bad Girls Go Everywhere

To be a woman in the modern world is to be placed at odds with one’s own sexual desires.

In the opening chapters of his book, Daniel Berenger talks about an eye-opening study regarding the differences between female and male sexuality. Dr. Meredith Chivers, a professor of Clinical Psychology at Queen’s University conducted a study of the sexual response in men and women, comparing one’s subjective arousal to the actual arousal as measured by blood flow to the genitals. Subjects – men and women of various sexual orientations – would watch an assortment of videos of 90 seconds each- heterosexual and homosexual couples having sex, nude men, nude women, men and women masturbating and a pair of bonobos mating. Between each clip, they would be shown a video of a nature scene to return their arousal level back to baseline normal. Each subject had a keypad on which they would rate their feelings of arousal. As a result, Chivers had records of each participant’s subjective and objective arousal.

Male response tracked closely to their reported sexual identity; gay men were aroused by gay porn and nude men while straight men were aroused by the hetero couples and the women; their subjective and objective arousal levels matched. Women’s… did not.

In fact, the records showed that women were far more aroused than men by a wider variety of images. Regardless of sexual identity, the female subjects were aroused by the sexual activity; the lesbian subjects were aroused by the male homosexual porn and the hetero subjects were aroused by the sapphic lovers and scenes of women masturbating. And yet the levels of subjective arousal reported by the participants varied. Again, the men’s self-reported arousal levels matched their recorded blood-flow… but the women’s were often contradictedby their own bodies.

There have been other studies that strongly suggest that the cause for the discordant results is that women are socialized to be disconnected from their own sexuality – that men are allowedto sexually in tune with their own wants and lusts while women are not.

Considering the way that society responds to any suggestion that women are sexual creatures, this is hardly surprising. In the 1940s and 50s, Alfred Kinsey conducted the first comprehensive study of human sexuality and published his findings in two books. The first, Sexual Behavior In the Human Male was a runaway success, turning Dr. Kinsey into an overnight celebrity; quite the unexpected reception for a dry tome full of charts and statistical data, written for the academic and scientific community. The second book however, Sexual Behavior In The Human Female did not get the same response. In fact, public outcry against his findings – that women masturbated, that most women had pre-marital sex, that a surprising number were lesbians or bisexual and had same-sex experiences – was so intense that there was a Congressional inquiry into his finances. He lost his grants and his job and died in poverty. The backlash against his findings and his study was so great that it hampered future research into human sexuality for decades. 

Society, in effect, attempted to bury the Kinsey reports because they didn’t like the way it disrupted the social narrative about female sexuality.

Even as social mores changed with rise of feminism and the Sexual Revolution in the 60s, women who were overtly sexual were portrayed as having something wrong with them; they clearly had been abused, or psychological problems or were otherwise just “damaged goods”. The idea that they might have sex for pleasure’s sake was anathema. Women, we are told over and over again, require emotional inspiration for sex; even the classic “Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex (But Were Afraid To Ask)” insisted that “before a woman could have sexual intercourse, she must have social intercourse”. The infamous 1989 Clark/Hatfield study continues to be held up as “evidence” that women don’t like sex the way that men do despite the problems with its methodology and the subsequent studies that refute it.

Even today, society pushes back hard against women owning their sexual interests… even as women are encouraged to take active control of every other aspect of their lives. Every few months it seems, somebody notices that the sexual culture has been changing, especially on college campuses. It seems that not a month can go by without another article tut-tutting and pearl-clutching over the rise of “hook-up culture” and the “dangers” it’s presenting to young women.

Even the New York Times couldn’t get away from the slut-shaming; while the first few stories talked about young women who were engaging in sex because they felt like it, the second half was equal parts finger-wag and tragedy porn, a mélange of regrets, tales of woe and rape. The message was unmistakable: these poor girls, ruining their lives because they were fucking like men.

The point was driven home later by Newsweek editor-in-chief Tina Brown:

I found this tragic because it basically says that these girls are completely editing out tenderness, intimacy, excitement, somebody respecting them

Yes. Women deciding that they wanted no-strings attached sex meant that they were cutting themselves off from intimacy and permanently marking themselves with a scarlet “S” that would forever prevent some man from considering them a viable future spouse. In 2013.

Of course, it certainly doesn’t help when you have politician after politician actively punishing women for having sex for any reason outside of missionary-position-and-strictly-for-procreation. First it was the conservative outcry over – get this – birth control pills, something that hasn’t been controversial  since Griswold Vs. Connecticut  (1965) made it legal for married couples and Eisenstadt v. Baird (1971) made it legal for everyone else. Rick Perry decided to lead the nationwide charge against women’s sex lives by mandating getting a stick shoved up one’s hoo-hah as an unavoidable prerequisite to getting an abortion and then closed 99% of the abortion clinics in Texas. And as goes Texas, so goes the rest of the nation; Virginia, Wisconsin and Michigan were quick to follow with their own version of the trans-vaginal ultrasound laws as a way to punish all those sluts for their sluttish ways.

But where would all of the slut-shaming be without a generous dose of hypocrisy to go with it?

Women are allowed to be sexual… but only in prescribed ways. Their sexuality is to be a performance, something done in order to please men, not for themselves. The nude women that bedeck the scenery of Robin Thicke’s “Blurred Lines” are decorative, not empowered; their sexiness is there to affirm Thicke’s desirability and virility. The Daily Mail – a UK tabloid that is, frankly so shitty that wrapping fish in it would be an insult to the ocean, takes great glee in drawing attention to nip-slips, muffin-tops and the occasional oops-no-panties moment for female celebrities. It loves nothing more than criticizing them for their shamelessness & lack of decency – as well as not keeping their bodies to the desired standards of Daily Mail’s readers and editorial board.

…and few celebs are willing or able to slap back as effectively or awesomely as Amanda Palmer did. Warning, very NSFW

Geek culture similarly has a love/hate relationship with women’s sexuality; they may love the sexy cosplayers but only in as much as they gratify men’s interests… and even then they’re suspect. Adrienne Curry gets held up as an “attention whore”2 and “fake” geek girl whenever she attends San Diego Comic-Con in skimpy costumes. Cosplayers who portray sexy characters, Rule 69 versions, or otherwise show “too much” skin are simultaneously lusted after – witness the number of “hottest cosplayer” photo galleries – and accused of only being there to bolster their number of Facebook and Instagram followers. As though someone who’s “only in it for the attention” is willing to shell out the hundreds of bucks for a SDCC pass, fight through the Thunderdome that is the Comic-Con hotel-reservation system3 and spend countless hours and dollars creating costumes just “for the attention” rather than a way of embodying and expressing their love for the characters they adore….

It isn’t helped any when men themselves are socially resistant to sexually aggressive women. A large part of why women aren’t willing to approach men they’re interested in is because men react badly to such a violation of the social narrative. When women make the first move, they’re often seen as being slutty or overly-aggressive. Those men who don’t respond with immediate distaste tend to overestimate the women’s interest in them and react accordingly… which is to say, trying to spelunk her tonsils with any portion of his anatomy he thinks she might take.

Small wonder then, that women – even in this day and age, when more and more young women are discarding traditional definitions of “feminine behavior” and forgoing dating for casual relationships in college – are still uncomfortable with the idea of fucking as care-free as men do; not only do they bear the majority of the physical risk but the social risk as well.

The Secret To Getting More Sex

So now that you’ve stuck around this long, let’s talk about what all this means to you.

If you’re looking for more casual sex, whether it’s a fuck-buddy relationship, a same-night hook-up, or just no-strings attached sex, you’re going to have your work cut out for you. The level of cultural conditioning that we’ve received – women and men – is difficult to unravel and work through… even when you know it’s there. There are a large number of women who want a casual hook-up but feel uncomfortable pursuing one because of social opprobrium, even in 2013. Women are continually subject to messages of denial and shame when they step out of the traditional gender roles of sexuality and this directly affects their relationships… and yours.

(As the official NerdLove Celebrity Patronus Dan Savage has said many times, part of why American culture’s so screwed up over sex is that “Canada got the French, Australia got the convicts and America got the Puritans”.)

So what can you do about it?

Understand That Women Want Sex Too

As far as advice goes, this seems like a “duh, George” moment if ever there was one. But one common sticking point I’ve seen over and over again is accepting the idea that women are as much sexual beings as men are. All too often, guys have a hard time expressing their desires or even wanting to admit that they have them. They often see their own sexuality as problematic and assume that women are naturally going to be offended by it because they’re so much less animalistic or base than men, or that they have different needs. Except it’s not true; women want to get laid just as much as men do and for the same reasons. Sometimes they want emotional intimacy or to feel desired. Sometimes they’re bored and it’s something to do. Sometimes it’s a way of proving something to themselves or to others. And sometimes they’re just horny and want to fuck.

Accepting that women are sexual beings, just as men are, is an important part of being able to relate to them sexually and to be able to communicate with them. It’s not a negotiation or trade of value for value, it’s a collaboration; you’re both interested in something that’s fun and feels good, here’s what you both bring to the table, are you interested?

Be Non-Judgmental

A major impediment to women’s sexual interest is social. A woman who expresses herself sexually is branded as a slut or a whore; a woman who has too much sex – for suitably random values of ‘too much’ – is seen as worth less or “damaged”. All too often, if a woman is overtly sexual, society is quick to assume that there’s something wrong with her or that she’s doing damage to herself; almost every hand-wringing article about “hook-up culture” in colleges worries about how these women are ruining their future potential. Strippers and escorts, so goes the common assumption, are only doing their job because “daddy touched them” or they have unspecified “issues”.  Amanda Knox’s sex life (**Gasp** she bought a vibrator! She had one night stands!) was used as “proof” that she was mentally unhinged and thus a murderess; even after her acquittal, she’s forced to justify her sexuality to the media.  Even women who simply approach men rather than waiting for men to make the first move are shamed for aggressively pursuing what they want.

One of the sexiest aspects of a modern man is someone who can accept a woman as she is without judgement. It’s fine for her to be the aggressor; it feels good to be desired. Whether she likes to be overtly sexy or not doesn’t speak to the quality of her character, nor does it imply anything other than “she likes to feel sexy”. It doesn’t matter if she’s had one partner or many; it’s only important that she’s into you.

Fight Back Against Rape Culture

I’m a big believer in enlightened self-interest. It’s good to do the right thing just because it’s right… but sometimes it’s worth noting that doing the right thing is good for you as well.  Case in point: Want to get laid more? One of the key reasons why women aren’t as receptive to casual sex as men are is because of the risk to their physical safety. Part of the solution then, is to help build a world where women can feel safe. When harassment is brushed off as “he’s paying you a compliment” or “boys will be boys”, when a rape victim is almost always automatically blamed for her own assault and someone drinking, hanging around with men or is dressed provocatively is seen as “asking for it”, we’re fighting against our own interests. The tolerance, acceptance and even normalization of rape and rape culture all contributes to a world where women are in danger just by virtue of being women. Speaking up when someone is being harassed, calling out rape jokes and bad behavior, supporting women even in the face of being dismissed as a “white knight”, even something as simple as practicing and encouraging enthusiastic consent are all ways of pushing back against rape culture.

Be An Ally

Yes, I’m advocating being a feminist ally because it’ll help you get laid. Remember what I said about enlightened self-interest? It applies just as much here.

Guys get caught up in the myths of feminism and the idea that it’s about taking something away from men – as though privilege is a zero-sum game. Feminism isn’t about hating men or putting men into a submissive role or taking over the world. It is – as the famous quote goes – about “the radical idea that women are people too” and treating them accordingly… and that helps men as well.

There’s a phrase in feminism: “The Patriarchy hurts everyone.”  Every time a man laments that women won’t make the first move, he is lamenting the gender roles that the patriarchal system enforces. Every time he wonders why women aren’t as interested in sex as men are, he’s staring down at behavior enforced by the entrenched structure. Every time a guy is given shit for acting queer, called a fag or is told he’s being a little bitch, he’s being punished for acting outside of the strict definition of “MAN”.

These are all things that feminism is trying to change. Fighting back against the “traditional” definitions and restrictions of gendered behavior frees women and men.

And it helps both men and women sexually. One of the most important victories won by feminism was the right for women to control their reproduction. The introduction of hormonal birth control was a critical factor of the Sexual revolution; when women were able to have sex without the risk of pregnancy, it opened up the world to them. Not only were they able to embrace education and careers without concern about their lives being interrupted by pregnancy, but it also enabled them to pursue relationships – casual and otherwise – with a freedom that they didn’t have before. The conservative push to roll back all of those hard-won victories will directly affect men just as much as women. 

The adage that a rising tide lifts all boats applies to equality as much as it does to finance. Helping work towards equality and social change is in your own best interest.

And besides: allies are sexy as hell.

 

Originally appeared at Paging Dr. NerdLove

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About Harris O'Malley

Harris O'Malley provides geek dating advice at his blog Paging Dr. NerdLove, as well as writing the occasional guest review for Spill.com and appearing on the podcast The League of Extremely Ordinary Gentlemen. He can be found dispensing snark and advice on Facebook and Twitter (@DrNerdLove.)

Dr. NerdLove is not really a doctor.

Comments

  1. Oh boy. Dude, you make some good points here – particularly about rape culture. And I know you mean well. But this whole business of using biology and evo-psych to justify one’s own sexual habits/desires is, aside from being somewhat patronizing, just wrong. Sexual tastes are very much personal, even though to some extent, biology and culture help to shape them. Bottom line is, no matter what your sexual tastes are you can find some primate species or human culture that behaved that way, but it doesn’t mean “that’s how we naturally are.” There’s no such thing as “what women really want” because we’re all different. And the same goes for men.

    As a woman, I am definitely a sexual being, and I am definitely naturally straight and monogamous. My tendencies have nothing at all to do with being ashamed of my body or concerned with keeping any sort of sexual “purity.” It’s simply what I prefer. I find sex in the context of a committed, trusting, emotionally connected relationship the biggest turn on ever, and I find sex with strangers a complete turn off, so I have no desire to do the hookup thing. This does not mean I think that I speak for all women or judge any woman who feels otherwise. My point is simply that just because a woman doesn’t want to have sex with you doesn’t necessarily mean she’s at all worried about purity or in the grip of a patriarchal society. And it’s rather patronizing in itself to imply that.

    Likewise the outrage directed at women who are are “sluts” may have reasons behind it that aren’t rooted in puritanism (even though I certainly agree that the puritan attitude does exist). I think the majority of people, men and women, ultimately want stable relationships that have a high degree of intimacy (including but not limited to sexual intimacy). Traditionally, women were the keepers of the flame in that department while men were considered to be clueless about such things, and would wait until they found a wife and “settled down” to learn a thing or two about intimacy – even if they had to tell themselves they were being dragged into it kicking and screaming. I think we can agree that these rigid gender roles are not good for anybody, but when people see women being sexually promiscuous, I think there’s a bit of fear there: if women aren’t the keepers of intimacy and stability in relationships, who will be? This fear may or may not have any justification, but I think it’s an understandable fear that really has nothing to do with purity.

    I’ve also read the study about women being aroused by videos that aren’t consistent with their orientation, and was very amused by the conclusion that this was because women are disconnected from our sexuality. To me it’s a simple matter of empathy vs. objectification. When I see people having sex onscreen, even if they’re gay and I’m straight, my immediate reaction is to put myself in their shoes and try to feel what they’re feeling, as opposed to just projecting my own fantasies onto those people. It doesn’t surprise me at all that women would be more inclined to have this reaction – whether this empathy is biological/maternal instinct or because (again) we’ve culturally been the keepers of the flame for empathy and intimacy, it’s not disconnectedness from sexuality.

    Like women, men have sexual tastes that are their own – whether it’s dictated by biology or culture or whatever, it really doesn’t matter. We are who we are, so we have a couple of options: 1) find a partner or partners whose sexual tastes match our own, 2) compromise with somebody and don’t consider it the end of the world if you don’t get everything you want, sexually, and perhaps even get something out of the experience that you didn’t expect. And 3) give serious and conscious thought to your sexual habits and whether they are really healthy for you – whether you’re a man or a woman. And if you decide something is or isn’t right for YOU, then change it if you want to and if you can. But telling other people that your own habits are the “natural” and correct ones isn’t going to change anybody’s mind (or body). It just creates more shame and alienation on the part of people who don’t fit your definition of “natural.”

    You do make a good point that, for women who do want to have more casual sex, rape culture is a problem and simple common sense/safety awareness prevents a lot of women from hooking up who might otherwise want to. So fostering more trust is good. But it’s not going to turn all women into a bunch of horndogs. I would also add that as it becomes more socially acceptable for men to express passion and emotion in other ways besides sex, men may become less dependent on it. Bet you hadn’t considered THAT, now had you? It’s women that need to change our sexual habits, eh? 😉

    Anyway, just some food for thought.

    • Cornelius Walker says:

      Just out of curiosity, how would you be able to tell whether you are “naturally” monogamous or whether years of cultural conditioning, starting pretty much from the time you were born, had shaped you thus? Don’t you find it the least bit curious that your preferences, which you consider “natural,” just happen to fit the cultural narrative prescribed for women?

      I suspect that individually we are incapable of actually knowing the sources of our preferences. Not knowing the sources doesn’t make them any less valid – they are, after all, personally true – but if we assume those sources to be more culturally derived than not, it gives us some hope for combatting the negative emotional states that accompany sexual desire and expression for some women. Looking at the narrative shift from seeing women’s sexual desire as capacious and something needing to be reigned in to something more or less non-existent gives us a sense that the idea of it being culturally indicated might be more correct than not.

      • “Just out of curiosity, how would you be able to tell whether you are “naturally” monogamous or whether years of cultural conditioning, starting pretty much from the time you were born, had shaped you thus?”

        Because monogamy is HUGELY cross-cultural. Europeans, Barbarians, Indians, Chinese, Romans all have the concept of monogamy and yet hugely differ in other ways. How the heck did they all manage to come up with exactly the same idea and why is it so popular?! Because its essentially human.

        Its weird to me when people invoke the whole culture argument as if foreign cultures are completely different and alien. Their are differences but sexual feelings, jealousy, fear of abandonment, the need for security are basically human. Cultures differ on things like gender roles, how status is obtained etc. If anything our society actively discourages a lot of the basic emotions that contribute to the desire for monogamy. For instance in our society its considered good to be able to move in after a relationship ends, quickly and easily. How many people beat themselves or feel like fools because they are hung up on someone. We are not supposed to be jealous. We are supposed to be independent but its all a huge lie.

        • Cornelius Walker says:

          You’re making up facts here. Monogamy is not hugely cross-cultural, particularly when you include the dimension of time. Monogamy for women perhaps, but certainly not for men. Even in cultures where monogamy is strongly prescribed, behavior indicates that it’s not always followed.

          Monogamy doesn’t automatically follow from feelings of jealousy. We feel jealous about more than just sexual relationships, and some people with multiple partners still feel jealous about sharing their partners with others. It’s not that jealousy isn’t a natural feeling, it’s how you act on it that matters. When we say you should “move on” after a relationship ends, it’s because some people get stalky (and murderey) when they dwell on their jealousy, or leave themselves closed to forming new relationships.

          • I am not making up facts. I just have superior judgement of the same facts. Across time, space, culture, geography you name it…. monogamy describes the vast majority of human sexual experience. Its the rule not the exception. The gender binary is also a RULE not an exception. Its weird to me that you don’t get this. I feel like I am living in a world of stupidity because these type of facts are all around us. But lets get numerical. Taking each year of each person’s life that has ever lived from the beginning of time to the present, how often do you think have had more than one sexual partner at one time. My estimate would be 5% of the time at best but more likely 1%.

            • Cornelius Walker says:

              You’re making up facts, guessing, and redefining monogamy all in one go. I think you’ve just scored a hat trick.

            • @Cornelius Walker…

              Why don’t you just answer his question? Provide you own numbers.

              When some people get called out or are presented empirical data contrary to the way they think, they punt. This what you just did. You boomed a 60+ yard’er..

            • Cornelius Walker says:

              What question? You see a question there?

              Since when is the burden of proof not on the person fabricating numbers? Are you suggesting I can just make up my own statistics and it’s up to everyone else to prove the fabrication? Thank you , but I have better things to do with my time.

            • There are no “facts” in this domain so guesses are all that is possible. But I challenged you because I don’t think you can come up with any other guess that anyone would consider reasonable that contradicts what I have stated.

              You have presented no facts. You have presented no definition of monogamy. You have criticized me without even elaborating on the meaning of any of your criticism. Its not even possible to guess at your argument because you don’t make one.

            • But let me present some facts:

              India exists. Monogamy is widely practiced in India. Now and in all RECORDED history. I place a lot of weight on actual recorded history and little weight on the musing of anthropologists. Now there are subculture in India that had other sexual practices. But again monogamy is the rule.

              China is the same. Japan the same. Rome the same. Greece for women at least was the same. Jews, Christians, Vikings (the history channel lies) and on and on it goes. Monogamy, monagamy, monagamy, monagamy. One partner at a time. Now there are exceptions…in China the upper classes practice polygamy but its the exception…not the rule.

            • Cornelius Walker says:

              and THIS is why I didn’t bother. You are making things up, redefining monogamy, and have a curious slant on who gets to be experts. And then we’re supposed to take what you write about this seriously? Especially when you’re wrong about Japan, wrong about India, and wrong about every other country you listed in terms of historical practice.

              If there is any “rule,” it’s that in most of history and in most cultures the rich can afford to be polygynous. Take China, which you cited and is the strongest case for your position. In 1911 monogamy was decreed by law, before which the wealthy had mistresses and concubines. Sure, most of China was poor and peasant men could only afford one wife but that doesn’t make a society monogamous. Indeed, if you bothered to do any research on this you’d find the exception in China was not the polygamous man, but the rich man who was not polygamous (see for example Emperor Hongzhi of the Ming dynasty, who was the only Chinese emperor not to take a concubine in recorded history). And while I mention the Emperor, it’s not meant to exclude the ordinary wealthy who also had mistresses and concubines. It was remarkable in China – in the literal sense – when a man would achieve great wealth and not take on a mistress. But recorded history has a bias towards the rich and famous, so we have fewer stories about the ordinary wealthy and more about the royals and very rich.

              So when you’re talking about “facts” the above is an example of one, not your “estimates” (also known as “baseless guesses”) nor your sweeping [incorrect] generalizations made all while dismissing the work of those who make the study of cultures past and present their profession.

              Btw, Jules, it’s not “punting” when you choose not to engage with someone who clearly doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

            • I think I read that the ancient Romans made monogamy the law, i.e. one legal wife, but the rich could still have concubines and slaves. Prostitution was also very big in Rome. Monogamy was about property ownership and inheritance. There is also a theory that monogamy promotes social stability among the lower classes because otherwise you end up with a large class of restless, unmarried men. Polygamous societies don’t have enough women to go around. However, I believe polygamy is the norm in most cultures of hunter gatherers. Basically, a man can have as many wives as he can support by hunting. In practical terms, that means no more than 2 or 3.

            • Hi Assman

              Islam is a world religion. As far as I know it is also growing faster than Christianty today.
              Muslims men can Marry up to four women if they can afford it economically.
              That is hardly monogamy Assman.

            • @Iben..

              Hello Iben!

              Yes, Sunni Muslims can marry up to 4 wives or more… But, Shiite Muslims eschew this practice.

              Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. They only marry one woman. So, they practice monogamy too.

              According to my Muslim friend from Iran, the Prophet Mohammed allowed multiple wives ONLY due to the fact that so many men had been killed in the wars against the Crusaders…. So, there were many women without men and alone. In the absence of such circumstances, a man should only have one wife.

              As I am not a religious scholar I do not know the truth about Islam and its practices.

            • Hi Jules

              It is difficult to know who to believe about Muslims praxis of many wife’s in Europe. But many fact point toward that this is not at all unusual because life in a welfare state makes this possible.

              Is this correct praxis I of Islam,probably not but it happens in Europe according to truth worthy newspapers. To be married under sharia is not the same as being married under laws in the state you live in.

              Nor is it unusual to have more than one wife in certain parts of Africa. Look at South Africa today.

              I am sure we have many Muslims living in Europe on this websites and they can correct me if I am wrong.

            • Hi Iben. I’m a muslim who live in South East Asia, and most of my muslim relatives and friends only have one wife in their lives. Actually in Koran, there is a passage that said men can marry 4 women only if they can be fair and can give equal love to 4 of them. But there is a passage follow it in An-Nisa that said no men can be fair, so marry just one woman. Many muslim scholar translate it as actually the best for muslim is to only marry one woman. Monogamy is the true muslim way. Only in difficult situation like what Jules said like war, men can marry 4 women, but its the worst men can be. Its not a sin, but not a behavior God like, because no men can be fair like written in Koran. Its the same as divorce, in Islam divorce is not a sin but is disliked by God.

              And all of Muslims who marry many women just for lust, they are not following Islam and Mohammed way. Actually, Mohammed is the first man in Arab tribe that practiced monogamy for years.Almost no westerners who hate Islam talk about this. He marry one woman ( Khadijah ), his true love, and live with her for years. Only after Khadijah died, Mohammed practiced polygamy. Its obvious Khadijah is the one true love of Mohammed and he never practiced polygamy before Khadijah died, even for widows and poor women. Westeners only talk about Aisyah, but most of Mohammed wives after Khadijah died are old widow whose their husband died in war, not young beautiful woman. Western society only talk about Mohammed like he is sex crazed pedophile who have many pretty women as harems. The actual fact is far, very far from that.

              Hope I can answer your question about Islam Iben.

            • Hi John

              Thank you for clear answers .
              The great love of my life was a Muslim, so I have positive experience with a man with his background, but he died from me.

              I wish I knew more about Islam because many of my new country men and women are Muslims,but not all practicing Muslims.

            • This is what I paste from other site about Mohammed and Khadijah :

              “Much has been made and said about Prophet Muhammad’s multiple marriages. There are many who smear the Prophet as a womanizing philanderer, citing his multiple marriages. This is absolute propaganda. As a response to those who malign the Prophet, If the Prophet were anything of the sort, he would have taken advantage of his youth to do such a thing. But he did not! At a time when it was a common custom to have multiple wives, the Prophet did not marry anyone else while he was with Khadijah (RA).

              Only between the age of fifty and his death at sixty-two did Prophet Mohammed take other wives. Most of these wives were widows, whom the Prophet married to care after them, or they were they were the daughters of prominent Arab chieftains, so that the Prophet could form a cohesive Muslim society out of a fiercely tribalistic (and barbaric) Arab culture. The smears against the Prophet fall flat on their faces once the light of truth shines brightly upon them. ”

              Mohammed was 25 years old when he married Khadijah, and was 50 when Khadijah died. He practiced monogamy for 25 years. Only after Khadijah died Mohammed practiced polygamy. Its very big thing back in Arab tribe society, when usually most men have many wives as he could. You can read more in this site about Mohammed and Khadijah : http://navedz.com/2009/04/03/prophet_muhammad_saw__khadijah_ra_the_greatest_love/

              So in answer for your question, Islam and Mohammed never teach polygamy. Polygamy is not Islam way. Many people who arent Muslims are often wrong about this.

            • John,

              Thank you for your enlightened comments.

              Here is America today, there is open discrimination against Muslims. As a Black man and an American, I detest it. I believe in our country’s creed of justice for all. I know our nation’s foundering was imperfect and our Constitution was written by many imperfect men.

              With that said, we have made tremendous progress. I came from the rural South of America. However, I attended college at two very good universities with many foreign students. I was eager to know more about their cultures and countries. So, I immersed myself into befriending many and have many friends today from all over the world.

              What is most interesting about Americans who practice Christianity (myself included) is that we ignore the fact that King Solomon and King David not only had hundreds of wives but also hundreds of concubines too!

              Thanks for your comments and the link. I will visit it.

            • Japan was always trying to get a handle on non-monogamy, rich ladies were forever hiring the pretty young Kabuki actors for… ahem well yeah, men did the same to the point where they took the actresses out of Kabuki, then the actors who played women, and the ones who played basically anything but old men. Read The Great Mirror Of Male Love, it’s hilarious

        • In ancient Chinese culture, men had several wives…women were commanded to put up and shut up…in the 20th century, men, both rich and poor, would have an official wife and then common law wives….Businessmen and politicians entertain each other in party rooms at restaurants and hotels with young hostesses (everyone is expected to keep this all secret..but it is an open secret)….

        • “How the heck did they all manage to come up with exactly the same idea and why is it so popular?! Because its essentially human.”

          That is essentially male, I guess you meant. Men created and imposed marriage and monogamy.

      • Well that was kinda my point – we can’t really know the source of our preferences. They’re a complex mix of genetics/biology, culture, and personal environment, and who knows what else, so it ends up being highly personal. So it gets ridiculous to start picking apart where it comes from in order to “justify” one’s preferences unless they’re making you unhappy/shamed/repressed/sexually addicted/whatever. Which in my case, they don’t. So no, I don’t really find it curious that my preferences happen to fit the cultural norm for women – very little else about me does. 😉 It certainly doesn’t bother me to act outside of cultural norms or examine the reasons I feel how I feel – but in this case I have done that and concluded that I’m happy with my preferences, so… .

        It’s true that a lot of women were raised in a way that makes them unhappy and conflicted about sex. And in that case, therapy might be a good idea. Same thing goes for men, who also can have sexual issues that stem from harmful cultural norms and it can make them unhappy and frustrated. But if you’re not unhappy and frustrated with your sex life, then who cares where it came from? :)

        • Cornelius Walker says:

          Wait, are you saying your preferences are natural or that you don’t know the source of your preferences and aren’t concerned about their source? Your original comment led me to believe the former, while your subsequent reply makes me think it’s the latter. If I was misreading your original comment, my apologies.

          • I’m saying that when it comes to sex, what is “natural” is personal. That is, if your sexuality feels authentic to you and isn’t causing you to feel either repressed or addicted or like you’re acting a part that isn’t real to you, then it’s “natural” – FOR YOU – and the source of your preferences doesn’t matter.

            If you’re asking whether I think there are sexual preferences that are “natural” for humans across the board, according to some biological evo-psych theory – no, I don’t. I think that everyone’s sexual preferences are shaped by a lot of different factors including biology and culture, but it doesn’t matter – the same thing could be said about your entire personality and character. Saying that, say, everyone should like anal sex because cavemen did it and anyone who doesn’t like it is just culturally repressed, just seems like just trying to give some sort of objective weight to a subjective preference (usually in order to convince someone else they “should” like something that you like).

    • Hi Paige

      I love what you write here:
      ✺” I would also add that as it becomes more socially acceptable for men
      to express passion and emotion in other ways besides sex, men may become less dependent on
      it. Bet you hadn’t considered THAT, now had you? It’s women that need to change our sexual habits, eh? ;)”✺

      This is one of the main keys for men to get more sex,but they do not believe women when we tell them so.

    • Thanks for saving me the trouble of explaining the same thing – and you did it wonderfully. As a woman, I really am not interested in random sex with strangers. It has nothing to do with morality or being judged – it is about being turned on – and for me it is would have to be with someone I am emotionally connected with. Personally, I am usually only sexually interested in one person at a time – mostly because the level of connection, chemistry, and intimacy I have with a man is hard to divide. I won’t desire another if my heart and mind is fixated on another. There women who are interested in having multiple sex partners, but I don’t see it at the same level – at the intrinsic level – as I see it in men. Even in cultures – like college campuses – where there is pressure for women to be as sexually promiscuous as men. Most who do do it not because they really want to, it is because they want validation at some level. Thus, even though the equality effort is appreciated – I think it is most accurate (as a life scientist) to say the two sexes are equal but different – with women having a lot more components contributing to their sexual desires at any given time in their life, month, and day then men.

      • Cornelius Walker says:

        This narrative sells both men and women short, and is likely a product of our culture. I’m not criticizing your preferences – I think whatever works for you and doesn’t harm others is perfectly fine – but when you extrapolate on your preferences to suggest that women who engage in hookups don’t really want to or that men don’t need emotional connection in their sex is just a reflection of the standard narrative we’ve been fed in our culture. There are plenty of women who don’t want a committed relationship with one guy, just as there are plenty of men who need that committed bond in which to be sexual and aren’t interested in chasing tail.

        It’s difficult to tease apart what you desire from what you’ve been told all your life that you’re allowed to desire, and some posit that in women more so than men this conflict (when there is one) leads to a suppression of desire rather than a refocussing into acceptable channels.

        • @Cornelius Walker,

          Ditto!!!!!

          Not everyone is seeking intimacy.

          • It’s true that not everyone is seeking intimacy with their sex, and that’s fine if it’s for real. But I do know a lot of women like Ashley says (and some men too) who have casual sex not because they want to, but because they think it’s the only way to what they do want, which might be a relationship, some validation of their worth, or if it’s a guy, to prove that he’s a “real man.”

            Of course there are also people who get into relationships or marriage because it’s socially expected, when what they really want is regular no-strings sex. Which also isn’t good because such relationships are probably going to go badly.

            So that, as far as I can see it, is the work we each have to do as individuals: ask ourselves why we are really doing what we do. Is it coming from an authentic place in us or are we just doing it because it’s what is expected, and/or out of insecurity and self aggrandizement? If it’s the latter, you will probably be happier if you unpack those expectations and figure out what you’re actually looking for. If it’s the former, and it’s not hurting anybody, then just do it and stop deceiving yourself and others. But nobody else can tell us the answer to that question – not “biology,” not culture, not religion, not some guy writing a blog, not somebody who wants to have sex with you or doesn’t want to have sex with you. Only each of us as individuals, possibly with the help of a therapist or close friend or partner who might know us well enough to to talk about it in a supportive way, can decide that for ourselves.

            • @Paige..

              ” But nobody else can tell us the answer to that question – not “biology,” not culture, not religion, not some guy writing a blog, not somebody who wants to have sex with you or doesn’t want to have sex with you. Only each of us as individuals, possibly with the help of a therapist or close friend or partner who might know us well enough to to talk about it in a supportive way, can decide that for ourselves.”

              Yes, I would agree with you. My point is simply we cannot assume that women (or men) are driven by the need for intimacy. We cannot assume that sex for a woman is an expression of her desire for intimacy. We cannot assume that women do not enjoy casual sex.

              In essence, we cannot assume anything. What we can do is observe behavior. We can seek to explain behavior, through some theory…..But, it does not apply to everyone.

  2. You can’t get sex if you can’t even get a date. The problem isn’t sex. The problem is even meeting women and getting them to go out with you. Generally if the woman is willing to go out the sex is a given at some point.

    A lot of guys are having trouble meeting women and getting them out. Women flake, reject, ignore….actually finding interested women can be a challenge. And an even harder challenge is finding women that you are also interested in you. The complete lack of trust between the sexes is a huge problem.

    And finally most men don’t really want casual sex even if they say they do. They are just enormously frustrated and horny and this translates too…why can’t I get more sex! But provide them with emotionally disconnected sex with prostitutes and these men will still be dissatisfied…even angry. What they are really looking for is good emotionally connected sex but that is truly difficult.

    • Yeah, I hear ya. It is frustrating to try to find a partner, and the trust thing is huge, I agree. And that’s the real problem, I agree. If there were more trust and caring going on between the sexes (and that is a two way street) there’d be a lot more sex – and/or the sex would be a lot better, and/or people would be fulfilled in other ways besides sex and so sex wouldn’t be people’s one and only lifeline to intimacy and fulfillment.

      • Exactly. Perfectly said.

        This is the opposite of “getting” sex in my mind. It goes deep and it is totally “learnable”.

        Thanks for shortening and clarifying my message, Paige.

  3. Gotta say Paige, I liked and agreed with that response far more than the actual article – which was the first one on this site that made me wince a little. There’s some good points in the article, but a man picking up the baton for women’s rights usually feels a little off the mark. You did well at helping me to understand why it was so in this case.

    • I think it’s great if a man wants to pick up the baton for women’s rights, just like people of color need white advocates and gay people need straight advocates (and I’ve been an advocate for both, and an advocate for men too where it applies). I think we all should be helping each other to reach our potential, and I have quite a few male friends who are allies and do it right. The problem with this particular article is it’s mostly self serving (how to get laid more by convincing women that we should adopt the same sexual habits that men traditionally have had), and patronizing (it’s “natural” to want to have lots of sex with lots of different people, so if you’re a woman and you don’t want to do that, it’s just your own shame/victimization and you don’t own your choices). Real advocacy and intimacy involves LISTENING to the people you’re supposedly advocating for. And THAT, if you want to be self serving, is a turn on for just about anybody. 😉

      • Well to me it just doesn’t make any sense. I have had many things not work out and I have talked to many women who have had things not work out. In all these situations I have never heard anybody say I didn’t have sex with him because he was not enough of an ally or because of rape culture or whatever. Typical reasons people never end up hooking up:

        1) One person is just not that into the other
        2) Leaving the country or area – this is surprisingly common
        3) Schedules don’t coincide
        4) No time
        5) Recovering from a breakup
        6) Stress from jobs, divorce or other difficult situations
        7) big incompatibilities – religion, values, race (for many this is very important)

        This is what happens in the real world and being more of an “ally” is not going to help. You can’t tell a woman: I am really your ally so you should have sex with me even though its your dream to leave the country and we will both probably end up getting hurt. It doesn’t make any sense.

        • Haha… no, that doesn’t make any sense when you put it that way. But what I meant is, a lot of relationships do break up, or never get off the ground in the first place, because one party won’t really listen to the other. You can’t get close to somebody if you aren’t willing to really listen to them as opposed to projecting onto them what YOU think they “should” do, as this article does. I know personally I’m a lot more open and attracted to a guy who is a good listener, and by that I don’t mean being willing to sit and listen to me have a one sided conversation, but one who has clearly spent a lot of time listening to others and is able to respond in a way that shows he “gets” what you’re saying.

          Understanding women’s issues is something that’s difficult for a guy, even one who’s generally respectful of women. So when I meet a guy who has clearly really put some thought into it and is able to understand it without taking it personally, to me that says a lot about him.

      • @Paige..

        “The problem with this particular article is it’s mostly self serving (how to get laid more by convincing women that we should adopt the same sexual habits that men traditionally have had), and patronizing (it’s “natural” to want to have lots of sex with lots of different people, so if you’re a woman and you don’t want to do that, it’s just your own shame/victimization and you don’t own your choices).”

        When you look at the empirical data (lots is in the book by Bergner), the finding is a vast disconnect between what women say with their minds vs what they actually express with their bodies. So, in my view there is clear repression. However, I think you have it backwards when you disagree with NL on asserting that women should act more like men to get laid.

        I think women should go back to acting like themselves, thousands of years ago, and men should act more like women when it comes to sexuality. While I will not use the word “naturally”, there is a volume of evidence that show women have a stronger desire for variety, novelty, and erotica. This has been observed even in lesbian relationships too. That desire is best satisfied by new partners

        With that being said, I think we do need to look at the new research on female sexuality. It really does challenge the conventional thinking.

        • Sooo what you’re saying is that you are an advocate for herpes and HIV.

          Greaaaaat. That’s what women need more of!

  4. In both singles dating and married life, I believe one key “secret” to a man “getting” more sex is to learn how to totally lose the energy and intention of trying to “get” sex. The notion of a man “getting sex” from a woman feels to most women like a telemarketing call – slimy. Yes, that’s a generalization and I’m not afraid to make it.

    A man trying to “get sex” is one of the single biggest turn-offs to most of the hetero women (single and married) I speak to and it can be smelled a mile away. When their men learned to ELIMINATE their focus on “getting” sex from them, they both finally enjoyed more sex and better sex. (what their men DID focus on is a whole new discussion)

    People have sex…enjoy sex… want sex…and even GIVE sex. But trying to “get” sex and the emotions that goes with the whole effort is the sabotaging secret for a lot of men.

    After the analytical smoke clears, I’ve found that the men who enjoy more and higher quality sex than those who don’t have one thing in common.

    They don’t NEED it and they don’t try to “GET” it.

    They are comfortable and confident in their desire of it. They have learned, grown, and realized that they bring emotional and physical value to every relationship. Not every woman is attracted to them. Not every woman shares their values. Not every woman deserves them. The energy and emotions that these men have turn out to be very attractive and sexually appealing.

    It’s my opinion that this is at the root of the “secret” Morris is writing about no matter what a man’s relationship status is.

    • Steve,

      While you make some good points, don’t you think what “assman” says above has some validity?

      Remember, some 25%-30% of men in America are involuntarily celibate, with most having simply given up.

      Sex is a human need in my view. Otherwise, there probably would not be any prostitutes serving men. Hence, the obsession by many men on “getting sex.” To get sex, a man must fist “get a woman.”

      Men (and women) desire sex for assorted reasons. As Paige stated above, this is a very individual thing with both sexes. The key is to match up with a partner who shares the same sexual desires as you.

      • Hi Jules,

        I think what “assman” said is true for millions of men. I don’t agree that getting a date or relationship naturally results in sex. Far from being valid.

        Millions of men live in what they call sexless marriages with super hot former cheerleaders, 3 kids, a mortgage, etc. Their sex lives suck for the same reasons that some men can’t get a date.

        It has to do with their willingness and ability to learn about attractiveness and how women perceive them. It has to do with their acceptance of the difference between their legendary “sex drive” and their “sex appeal”. They must choose to become educated and then act upon some certain “truths” about their own masculinity and how it influences the women this wish to attract. They must choose to become students of this for a lifetime. It’s a blast and extremely rewarding. When you find a woman who is in the same process, OMG.

        I’ve talked to some married men who complain about their sex lives who have no clue what their wife fantasizes about. They can’t even point to and name 5 major components of a vagina and how they work. Yet, they still think they “deserve” to have a incredibly hot, satisfying sex life. Hmmmm.

        Reproduction is a need. Sex is a want. Men who learn how to communicate their desire for sex to a woman will always have a leg up on men who can only communicate their *need* for sex.

        The same thing applies to men who *want* to meet a woman and those who *need* to meet a woman.

        • Steve,

          You seem to be putting most of the blame on the men.

          Well, I beg to disagree. Yes, men can do a lot lot more to educate themselves on many aspects of women’s sexuality.

          Yet, this fundamental fact remain Steve: there is no large body of evidence to show that such will lead to more sex! This is pointed out in Bergner’s book.

          I was in a sexless marriage for over 10 years Steve. I did all the things (and more) that sex therapists, shrinks, therapists….suggested. I worked 10 hours a day, cooked, help out with our son, gave her attention, knew her favorite colors, favorite restaurants….etc. It all failed Steve? Why? She just was no longer attracted to me, sexually. I really do not really think she ever was Steve. Yet, she would say, “I love you”, or “I love making love to you.” I was thoroughly false.

          I am not alone in having experienced this kind of thing from a wife. So, you cannot put the heavy lifting solely on the men.

          So, my point is you have to start with the woman, not the man. We need to get a very real and honest answer from her on just how she feels about her partner. I just does not make sense for a man to go through ALL the things you suggest, and I personally did, for naught.

          We must stop assuming Steve. When are we going to start looking at women’s sexual attractiveness issues when it comes to men? Never I guess.

          • Hmmm….I want to know more about this. I have never had a problem getting sex in a relationship but sometimes I have wondered if that was because I never got married. I am also confused at how a woman can even stop have sex in a relationship. I also find this whole idea that I have to do housework or something else to get my girl to have sex with me very odd.

            When I wanted to have sex with my girlfriend, I grabbed her and we had sex. One time I was in a change room at Walmart and I grabbed by girlfriend, brought her in the change room and had sex. She always just went along…always with a big smile on her face and heavily turned on. Its hard for me to conceive of her ever refusing…and I don’t even think she could conceive of it.

            I have a strong feeling that the men who don’t have a problem getting sex are those who are dominant which makes them both attractive to their partners and allows them to initiate. Whereas the sexless marriages are more egalitarian or even reversed with the woman dominant and the man submissive. Its no wonder these men have trouble getting sex. They don’t lead anywhere else in the relationship…how can they lead in the bedroom.

            • @assman…

              You speak much truth! Now divorced, I have become a very sexually adventurous and aggressive man. Much like you, I dominate and “take” my woman.

              Women flourish and crave novelty. When I put my girlfriend in the back of my truck, she was incredibly turned on by it. Btw, she is a cop. We were breaking the law. Lol! We have sex outside, in the woods, in my truck, in the garage,…I grab her a toss her on the bed. It really gets her turned on big time.

          • Beautiful, Jules! Me too. You and I share a very similar married experience, though mine was about twice as long. I understand and feel for you and the pain involved in the end of such a marriage.

            I’ve questioned myself (and now, you) why you were not sexually adventurous and aggressive in your marriage?

            The answer for me is because I allowed other people and my wife to define me, my values, my desires, and ultimately, who I would become as a man in an intimate relationship. I spent way too much time trying to keep the peace and be liked in any form I could muster.

            Marriage and LTR’s in general see declining levels of sex for many reasons. One BIG reason (not blame) is a man who allows his own value and desires to be defined and controlled by others. This is my challenge to men…not blame. Most men have work to do in this area. It’s work they want to do for themselves – over their whole lifetime.

            Your experience with your girlfriend supports how sexually attractive a man like that can be. I have no doubt you ALSO do things for her out of love and compassion – not out of expectation for sexual rewards. Now THAT is sexy.

            If we want to be sexually adventurous, aggressive, bold, assertive, inspiring, teasing, attractive, alluring, whatever….then dammit….BE THAT MAN. Be yourself. Don’t apologize. Love openly. Give freely. Accept her. Affirm her.

            But DO NOT compromise yourself or your desire to be who you want to be…who you WILL be.

            This is not an act or performance to impress others. This is a process of discovering your true self and being authentic in every way for one person only – you. Yes,

            Yes, the same message applies equally to women. But, we can’t expect or mandate that it is they who must start. The only control we have in anything is to start with ourselves.

            This is where “blame” for the women comes. Women have equal responsibility for choosing their path and acting in ways that support the growth and intimacy of the relationship. There are hundreds of ways they can sabotage it and they do all the time.

            The wife or girlfriend who chooses to ignore, disrespect, dishonor, or otherwise fail to join you in a healthy, mutually satisfying, and intimate relationship is free to continue her life without you.

            You and I are witnesses to that reality.

      • I agree but I also think Steve’s point is worth considering. That is, a lot of men say they just want to “get sex” and can’t, and are frustrated and unhappy, but when you suggest they go to a prostitute they don’t want to. So it’s obvious there’s something else they want besides no-strings sex.

        • @Paige..

          “So it’s obvious there’s something else they want besides no-strings sex.”

          We (men) want a relationship that includes robust sex and not sex with a whore. There are many men who don’t mind having sex with prostitutes and sex workers. But, most men do not have sex with prostitutes in their lifetime.

          However (speaking for myself), I find the very thought of sex with a prostitute or even a “promiscuous” woman revolting.

    • Hi Steve

      Your conclusions are correct, at least this is my experience with men,as a woman.

      Duty sex to feed needy men is not what most women want and the healthiest is to say no thank you to any kind of duty sex.

      • FlyingKal says:

        I can assure you that “duty sex” is not what most men want either.

        So the question is why this is happening? Why you are turning it into that, even in long-term monogamous relationships that are the “safe spaces” where accordning to O’Malley’s et al’s theory a woman’s sex drive and lust is supposed to thrive?

        • Hi FK,

          I think this is extremely important for men to know and understand.

          Marriage, LTR’s, and/or monogamous relationships ARE NOT automatically “SAFE SPACES”.

          This fallacy is what gets so many men frustrated and angry that sex is not ‘easy’ for them. They think they can “commit” to a relationship and then get all the free, easy sex they want. However, we can make women feel “unsafe” in many, many ways.

          “Safe spaces” for women to allow their sex drive to blossom and their lust to comfortably romp are NOT defined by their relationship status.

          Safe spaces are (generally, yes another generalization) defined by feelings of connectedness, trust, respect, confidence, and acceptance – then followed by physical attraction. We see lots of marginal looking men in steamy relationships because of this truth. These men are comfortable and confident in their emotional and physical value.

          The absence of the tiresome “sex brain” is critical. I’ll say it again…

          A man who can honestly and authentically generate those feelings in a woman will have all of the high quality sex he desires. No games. No hidden agendas. No end goal to get laid. Pure, honest connection and mutual appreciation and self-confidence.

          A man who learns to become that guy (for HIMSELF) finds that he is no longer sexually attracted to women who choose not to respond to him and his desire to emotionally connect no matter how hot she is.

          A man who becomes that guy finds a whole new clarity for his target partner. He also becomes much less concerned about being judged and being rejected. There are hundreds of women who would LOVE to meet him.

          This concept applies to single and married men in different ways I won’t go into here.

          It also applies equally to women in different ways I won’t go into here. But I’ll give you a hint:

          It’s called “Commitment Brain” in a woman.

          • FlyingKal says:

            Hi Steve,
            Marriage, LTR’s, and/or monogamous relationships ARE NOT automatically “SAFE SPACES”.

            I didn’t say they were.
            However, they CAN be the SAFE SPACE.
            Both BOTH partners must work together for it to happen, allow it to happen.

            Being in a committed relationship and taking a one-sided decision to give up sex, to shut your partner out of sex with you, refusing any communication about it, and then imagine that this will have no noticable effect on your partner or on your relationship, is in my opinion delusional at best and plain stupid at its worst.

    • Steve et al,

      I’m a mature woman who has had LOTS of relationships and LOTS of sex (all different kinds). I am NOT monogamous unless I’m in love. Total complete love. I’ve gone out with men who I’ve really enjoyed as far as being their partner, but I’ve learned the difference between being a partner and being in LOVE with every bit of a person. So while I can still have partners where I will NOT practice monogamy but a good intimate relationship, I can also imagine being in complete love with someone and wanting monogamy.

      And it’s absolutely TRUE that for experienced women we do not like men who have ‘sex brain’. We have a very evolved BS detector. That means if it’s the only thing they’re thinking about when we are in each others company it won’t happen. If I get signals from a man that he has ‘sex brain’ I get bored. There is NO connection and even with my sex partners there has to be a level of connection. Duty sex is horrible and as a mature woman I stopped engaging in that when I was about 26. I’m very much in control of my sexuality. I can say NO to anyone. I think it’s important for women to learn that skill.

      I’ve had plenty of one night stands and they are crap for me. I don’t really like them.

      Connection is where its at. Whether its a brief partnership or a love.

      I agree with the article’s insistence that men get educated on rape culture but I don’t think telling men to be a feminist ally to get laid was particularly helpful. It came across as belittling to women who are feminists and sounded too PUA. As a feminist I get to know who I’m going to have sex with before I do it. Men being educated about women and our issues is a good thing. I have very strategic ways of figuring out how a man thinks and if I don’t see and hear a pro feminist guy then he won’t be getting my further attention.

      • I love the term “sex brain” to describe the oozing sexual neediness that many men have but do not acknowledge.

        I believe your BS detector is a finely tuned ability in most women, – young, old, married, single.

        Experienced women like you are actually aware of it and consciously use it – “strategically”.

        Less experienced women “feel” it and when asked “why don’t you want to have sex”, all they can say is “I don’t know”. If men are willing to learn about their sex brain and the infallible BS detector, they can change the whole dynamic.

        I help men learn how to evolve their “connection brain” and lose the neediness for sex, validation, and affirmation from women. It instantly improves their sex appeal, self-confidence and puts their sex drive where it belongs.

        After all, “connection” is where it’s at. ;^)

        You’ve inspired me to write a blog using your term “sex brain” – hope you don’t mind.

        • “Sex brain” is right on the mark. When you are with a man and it’s obvious that his goal is primarily “sex” first and not getting to know you or just enjoy spending time with you, it’s a huge turn off. Sometimes, the harder a man tired to have sex with me or acted in some way, even small ways, like I owed it to him in some way because we simply went out and had a nice time or reached the stupid 3-date rule, it really made my own libido nose dive further.

          I also remember some situations where I would be making-out with a date, and the guy would assume that making-out also automatically meant sex. This one is a bit of a fine line because I can understand a man getting very excited from making-out and taking it as a signal but at the same time, I’m not sure when making-out automatically meant we were going to have sex. When I was younger, after having this experience, i learned to communicate better. Sometimes even after I clearly communicated with them that I wasn’t ready to take things further while commicating how far I was ready to take it: such as telling them that I wasn’t ready for sex yet but I was ready for x,y or z. They still pushed and assumed sex despite communicating beforehand. So it made me hesistant to even enjoy making-out or other activities because I didn’t want to *tease* or give the wrong idea despite having commicated my own desires. All of them nodded and agreed with me and then when we were only making-out, couldn’t seem to really control themselves. So sometimes I felt that I was a *tease* for even making-out with guys. That I *owed* them in someway because after all, I made-out with them.

        • THIS, acting like you’ll push or won’t listen if I say no kills my lady boner faster than you can say Jack Robinson.

          I also think that men don’t realize that they often feel the same way… I think sometimes men are afraid of women who like sex because when sex is on offer social norms about masculinity say that they’re “not a man if they say no”

  5. Harris, this is an awesome article. Kudos to you for calling out society on the hypocrisy of female sexuality and gender stereotypes. I am definitely sharing this article!

  6. Aw! I saw the heading for this and thought ‘great, there might be some tips here I can try’. But, thing is, I’m a woman… Still, it was interesting reading, thank you. I’d love to see more written about men who are sexy-shy if anyone here would like to tackle that – especially men who may have been shy about their own sexuality and got over it.

    • Hi Freya

      I agree with you. GMP needs more articles about sex-shy men. They need help.

      Inhibited men need good advice,preferable from professionals.

      • Gint Aras says:

        Just to chime in. (If you don’t know, I’m the Marriage Editor.) We’ve been actively trying to get the very article you guys are talking about here. But shy people are, you know, shy. They don’t want to write about themselves, and the therapists I’ve spoken to (full disclosure: two friends) conclude that they are hard to study because they don’t reveal as much as you’d like.

    • @Freya: I just read a really fascinating book, “The Game”, by Neil Strauss (PUA, who surprisingly graduated from my alma mater!)…Neil details how he used to be so shy and socially incompetent around women (especially shocking when I found out that he graduated from my school, a former women’s college!)….

      Even funnier is his depiction of some of the other PUA characters, who are at times socially perceptive and yet other times completely off in their social interactions…especially weird is the depiction of Tyler Durden (Owen Cook), who is now a successful PUA, but started out being a total AFC (“Average Frustrated Chump” with super pale skin and a shmooshed-in face), who couldn’t even converse with women in the beginning….[You can watch his RSD videos on youtube…it is astounding his current ease with women given his self-described “creepy ginger looks”]….

      The PUAs seem to put forth the view that even the most socially incompetent guy can learn new tricks…. and maybe increase his luck in approaching women and “pulling girls”….they seem to promote “social robot” programming…I guess these are guys who never got over their ” young awkward years”…

  7. FlyingKal says:

    Early in the article it is stated that Women – and society – have been taught that sex is a masculine trait
    Yet, later in the article it is acknowledged that a lot of men “often see their own sexuality as problematic”.
    if the first paragraph is true, then why do men see their own sexuality this way? Or shall we simply file this whole article in the “trying to have your cake and eat it too” cabinet?

    Also, isn’t most of the “advice” or “unbelievable secrets” given in an article under this label, going full circle into Nice-Guy-ism??

    • @FlyingKal…

      “Also, isn’t most of the “advice” or “unbelievable secrets” given in an article under this label, going full circle into Nice-Guy-ism??”

      Yes, it is indeed. And we know most women are not trying to have sex with Mr. Nice Guy.

      This is the problem I have with much of what he writes about. When a man has enjoyed this very robust sex life and had a bunch of sex partners, he can afford to go down the road NL suggest. However, such is simply not the reality for most men in America.

      It’s like a man who has been eating fine and regular meals all his adult life vs a man who has been living off scraps. Obviously, they have a difference perspective (and appreciation) for food.

      • Sex is not food, oh for Pete’s sake. Honestly I think the other thing we need to do is work on the way men place their self esteem heavily on how much sex they get. We as a society keep telling men their worth as a human being is how much sex they’ve “managed to extract” from women, and it’s such B.S.

        There are so many reasons a guy can have trouble getting laid. When my husband was younger it was actually bitterness towards women (for not having sex with him) when he got over it, he immediately started getting laid.

    • Cornelius Walker says:

      Early in the article it is stated that Women – and society – have been taught that sex is a masculine trait
      Yet, later in the article it is acknowledged that a lot of men “often see their own sexuality as problematic”.
      if the first paragraph is true, then why do men see their own sexuality this way? Or shall we simply file this whole article in the “trying to have your cake and eat it too” cabinet?

      Both can be true simultaneously. If we teach the view that sexual expression is a base desire, and that it is a masculine trait then we can also teach men to be ashamed about their desires because they are base. At the same time, we can teach women that they are the more “pure” and “chaste” sex (constructing a mighty high pedestal for them in the process) and that the optimal amount of sexual desire for women is no desire (save perhaps for procreation). It’s worth pointing out that this narrative is relatively new in our Western culture, having been created in approximately the last 300 years. Before this women were seen as more lascivious, with men being more in control of their sexual desire and therefore needing to extend this control to their women.

      Daniel Bergner’s book What Do Women Want, which Harris referenced above, should be essential reading for both men and women.

    • There’s a difference between being genuinely nice, vs. treating me like a vending machine where you put in kindness and get out sex.

      The “niceguyTM” approach is still one with the presumption that “sex is a favour women do for men” because ‘if I help her move this sofa, she owes me one’

  8. “Fight Back Against Rape Culture”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57573120/justice-dept.-violence-against-women-fell-64-over-decade/

    Why do you persist with this Rape Culture argument. The evidence (facts) is clearly to the contrary. In fact, one could argue from available data that the environment for women are much safer than for men.

    We need to stop pushing this Rape Culture agenda when the evidence clearly contradict such.

    • Even if rates are falling, we still need to fight against it. Rape isn’t gone, and rape against men/boys isn’t gone and rape culture contributes to all of this.

      • I don’t think he is saying rape is gone but I do think he is asking if there really is some cultural force that accepts and condone and normalizes rape?

        • Yeah, there still is, unfortunately. It’s a pretty culturally ingrained attitude, and a lot of people aren’t conscious of it, but it’s still there. I’ve been heartened to see a lot more awareness of it in the last year or two.

      • @Joanna..

        “Even if rates are falling, we still need to fight against it. Rape isn’t gone, and rape against men/boys isn’t gone and rape culture contributes to all of this.”

        Simply exasperated!!!!

        Murder is still with us as well Joanna. There is ALWAYS going to be rape, murder, crime etc in society. Yet, you have taken one of these, rape, and elevated it above all else. Why?

        Even with the threat of violence with us, it still has not stopped women from dating and having sex with dangerous and bad men.

        A 64% drop in violence against women IS a much safer society for women Joanna. You will NEVER get the rape stat zero.

        All this “Rape Culture” thing does is create unnecessary and undue tensions between men and women.

        • Joanna Schroeder says:

          We may never get it to zero, but 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys is too high.

          It should be an abherrent and almost unheard-of crime. And it can be. But if we say, “Isn’t less rape good enough?”

          No, it’s not good enough. And YES we need less murder too. But that’s not what this conversation is about.

          My feeling is that addressing the deeper reasons people commit rape will probably also help address murder too. but in saying that we need to keep fighting against rape and sexual assault doesn’t minimize the need to fight against murder. It’s a false zero-sum scenario.

          • Just a point of fact on the “1-in-4” statistic; it can’t be pressed into the service you’re attempting to put into here. If it were true, it would mean undergraduate women are facing one specific sexual violent act at a rate 10x that of ALL violent crime in Detroit combined.

            In fact, it is an almost unheard of crime that is virulently opposed by every thinking person. Could it be that the “safe spaces” argument is really about blunt power transfer in sexual congress?

            As a point of reference:
            http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html
            “The 2006 violent crime rate in Detroit, one of the most violent cities in America, was 2,400 murders, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults per 100,000 inhabitants—a rate of 2.4 percent. The one-in-four statistic would mean that every year, millions of young women graduate who have suffered the most terrifying assault, short of murder, that a woman can experience. Such a crime wave would require nothing less than a state of emergency—Take Back the Night rallies and 24-hour hotlines would hardly be adequate to counter this tsunami of sexual violence. Admissions policies letting in tens of thousands of vicious criminals would require a complete revision, perhaps banning boys entirely. The nation’s nearly 10 million female undergrads would need to take the most stringent safety precautions. Certainly, they would have to alter their sexual behavior radically to avoid falling prey to the rape epidemic.”

  9. “Be An Ally”

    “Yes, I’m advocating being a feminist ally because it’ll help you get laid. Remember what I said about enlightened self-interest? It applies just as much here.”

    Unbelievable! So, a man should do this just to get laid. Isn’t this a bit disingenuous and deceptive? How is this any different than PUA?

    You should be an ally because you feel women are human beings deserving of the same rights, freedoms, privileges, and respect due ALL human beings and citizens of this Republic.

    • Nolan Voyd says:

      Someone else on his homepage said it best:

      “I think there’s a big difference between, for example, “Be a feminist ally because then women are morally obligated to have sex with you, personally” and “Be a feminist ally because that is one tiny step toward making the world a place where women can be more honest about their sexual desires, which is good for anyone who is a woman or likes having sex with them.””

      Real talk, moral rectitude is not always the best motivator of human behavior (or the masses). In the end, we’re pragmatists.

      • Joanna Schroeder says:

        I think there is sort of a tongue-in-cheek element to Harris’ title here… It sort of makes fun of the idea that you can “get a girl into bed” in any way that is at all moral.

        He’s looking at the big picture. The problem isn’t women, or even sex, it’s the way society has taught women about sex and desire, the way society makes us feel about sex, about our bodies and our desire.

        • I don’t really get the problem being solved. I have never had a problem getting sex from women who i was in a relationship with. I usually find it pretty easy and no guy I know reports problems. The main problem is actually getting into a relationship and getting dates. That is really difficult. You often don’t even get a number or a date. Or your not interested or they are not interested. The problem is more often high standards that it is her fear of being a slut.

          And in the few cases where I have found women who were afraid of being considered sluts, it just meant waiting until the third date or fourth date.for sex. But that is just a small initial wait. After that sex is regular and most often the thing that gets in the way is logistics: where and when. Are there really guys out there having problems with sex because their girlfriends are afraid of being considered sluts?!

          And I don’t understand the appeal of casual sex. Why not just go to a prostitute? If the whole point of this article is more casual sex wouldn’t that be the obvious suggestion.

          I know women I can have sex with. I don’t want it or them. I would rather masturbate. Sex lasts 20 minutes…I want someone I can hang out with, love, enjoy and have fun with. The whole package and that is difficult to find. I don’t want to spend 3 hours with a person I am not that into, who could end up hurting just for 20 minutes of bad sex. Its not worth it except for bragging rights.

          • Its funny I actually think that women these days are more comfortable with sex than I am. Most of them have had sex starting at much earlier age than me. They have had sex with every boyfriend they have been with and usually they have had at least 4-5 boyfriends. I am sometimes surprised at how easy it is and how willing women are. I haven’t found that getting an interested woman to have sex requires a lot of persuasion.

            The problem is finding the interested woman.

          • I think if they were being honest with themselves, a lot of men would agree with you.

            And you’re correct (as far as my own tastes are concerned anyway) – I don’t like casual sex and don’t do one night stands or have sex on the first date. It’s not because I’m afraid of being considered a slut, it’s because I just am not sexually attracted to a guy until I get to know him. And I find the sex is much better if we know each other and have some level of caring about each other before having sex. After that, I certainly enjoy it and am happy to do it regularly.

            But yes, getting to that point is the hard part. We all have standards, both men and women. And again, it’s an individual decision whether you think you can change your standards if you really want more sex. A woman posted here that she would like to have more sex but she’s overweight. Is that someone you’d consider? Etc. I just don’t think a lot of people are being honest with themselves for various reasons, so that makes it hard to be honest with others about what you want and creates mistrust.

            • @Paige..

              “I just don’t think a lot of people are being honest with themselves for various reasons, so that makes it hard to be honest with others about what you want and creates mistrust.”

              Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!!!

              This is why I have consistently argued for more honesty and openness. Yet, few people seem to really want to “step up” and admit this is a huge problem.

              “This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man” – Shakespeare

        • @Joanna..

          “The problem isn’t women, or even sex, it’s the way society has taught women about sex and desire, the way society makes us feel about sex, about our bodies and our desire.”

          We can agree.

          So, what can we as men and women do together to eradicate much of this hogwash? What is in it for men? What role do you suggest we men play?

          Yes, I am about being an ally for women. I see the challenges and issues women face daily. I am empathetic and put my time and $$$ towards helping.

          We men do need to be re-educated on many things. No argument here. A man should treat a woman the way he would want his mother, wife, or daughter treated. It’s just that simple.

          • Thank you, it really is that simple, and I do know quite a lot of men who get it.

            I suppose the best way that men can help is just to be more conscious of it. It isn’t just women who’ve been taught these things about sex that are harmful – men have been taught the same things (about women and sex). There are a lot of men who still (often unconsciously) believe that a woman he can respect and a woman who will have sex with him are mutually exclusive, that once she has sex, she is on some level a “whore” who is there to be used and doesn’t deserve to be treated right. We should all search our brains and try to root out any lingering feelings like this that may be lurking there, and we should call out our peers when we see it, too. We can be kind about it, because we’re not calling ourselves or others out to be mean or denigrating, but to become better people and become closer to each other.

            I think it happens all the time that someone is convinced they aren’t sexist/racist/homophobic/whatever and yet our culture is so steeped in it that we have lingering unconscious feelings to the contrary, and lingering social constructs that support them. And then people (at least those who aren’t just outright assholesl who don’t care or are even proud of their sexism, racism or homophobia) become ashamed of those feelings and don’t want to examine them. I think it helps everyone (male, female, straight, gay, black, white, whatever) to increase our awareness of this and talk about it with each other, and examine ourselves, to see in what ways we may (usually unconsciously) be doing things that hurt ourselves and others and create mistrust between us, mistrust of ourselves, or disrespect of ourselves and others.

  10. The problem with me is not getting sex, its getting a relationship. I never get frustated for cant get sex. But being lonely frustated me . Seriously I will trade 1 years relationship with a girl I like without sex at all than one night stand with super sexy girl but no relationship. Besides, I’m not interested with casual sex with strangers anyway ( And I’m a guy, surprised!)

    • Hi James
      You sound like a gem. I hope someone find you soon!

    • On the money James! I recently read an article in the local newspaper that stated according to the last U.S. census, there are more people living alone than at any time in our countrys history (I believe the first census was 1790 or there a bouts) I just finished a job working with a terrific young man. Bruce is 34, no bad habits (smoking , drinking ,gambling, a rarity somewhat in this business) in short, a handsome, intelligent gentleman and he says exactly what you did. Bruce even tried ‘Speed Dating’ (he said he did get to meet alot of people). He did tell me that the last couple of dates he went on , he felt like he was “applying for a bank loan” (what do you do for a living? How much do you make a year doing that?) As someone who’s been with the same woman for over 38 years, I certainly have no clue as to what’s happening or what needs to be done, but as the father of a single son (the girls all found good men thank god) and the grandfather of 3 boys and a girl, I am somewhat concerned what kind of ‘Social Norm’ they’ll have to navigate through.

  11. “One of the sexiest aspects of a modern man is someone who can accept a woman as she is without judgement. It’s fine for her to be the aggressor; it feels good to be desired. Whether she likes to be overtly sexy or not doesn’t speak to the quality of her character, nor does it imply anything other than “she likes to feel sexy”. It doesn’t matter if she’s had one partner or many; it’s only important that she’s into you.”

    I respectfully disagree. Character matters.

    • Well, that phrase by itself does not say character doesn’t matter. It just says how women acts (when it comes to “sexiness” or her clothes, etc) does not speak to the quality of their character and, for the bigger part, it is true. The same goes for men.

  12. AnonymousDog says:

    Confirmation bias. You believe that something called “The Patriarchy” is responsible for most of the world’s problems, and then find supporting evidence everywhere.

  13. So I am a woman. So I kinda skipped a lot of the article and the comments. Still, unlike what the title leads me to believe, this article is helping MEN get more sex, right? I want more sex and I am a woman! I am single, somewhat fat, having some self-esteem issues because of that and so on. I don’t think I am bad in the sack or overly shy either, but I have NO IDEA where to find the men. I don’t like nightclubs, I don’t want drunk sex and I kinda want to know the man in question just a bit first as well.

    To the point: why didn’t you say right away the article was geared at men? As a woman I am supposed to just pick any sex I want just like that? Why can’t we have the same problems? I still find the article somewhat stereotypically geared despite highlighting the cultural conditioning we all receive.

    • Lin, you’re the second woman to comment this on this article, possibly even the third. I find this so interesting.

      I’m going to forward these comments on to a couple of our writers and see if they have any interest in tackling this subject!

      • In finding solutions, a person must clearly define what the problem is.

        Getting sex is not clear enough. Meeting men/women is not clear enough. Not wanting a certain KIND of sex is not clear enough. Not liking nightclubs is not clear enough. The word “sex” is not clear enough.

        It’s a “marketing” problem. Murky goals result in murky results.

        What do we have to offer?
        Who am I trying to attract?
        What qualities must they have?
        What do others want and/or need from us?
        What non-negotiable values do I have?
        To whom will these values appeal?
        How do I want to feel? How do I want to make others feel?
        Where do they hang out?
        How do I present my best possible self to demonstrate my value to them?
        How do I make my value irresistible?
        What is it SPECIFICALLY that I want and what kinds of men/women want the same things?
        How do I do this from a place of self-respect and maintain my dignity?

        Defining what we don’t want is only a starting point…never an end point.

      • Hi Joanna
        I hope you can find the right persons to write about this.

        And one more wish:
        Many men on GMP tells us that 25-30% of men in America are involuntary celibate .
        Can GMP find the research all men refers to? And also give us background data about all these incels. Who are they, why are they incels,what is their stories.
        There are so many different background factors in a persons life that can result in a person living as an incel ,it is a result of a long proses over time for many.

        • Iben,

          Surveys of sexual behavior are notorious for their inaccuracy. I the past I know they’ve tested this by telling people they are hooked up to a lie detector… women’s average usually goes up by a fair percentage while men’s drops by a more significant amount. But CDC did a survey a few years back that seemed to address this problem fairly well. The average man will have between 5 and 7 partners over his lifetime, the average woman between 4 and 6. 16.6% of men and 25% of women report having 1 or fewer partners.

          http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19374216/ns/health-sexual_health/t/new-survey-tells-how-much-sex-were-having/#.UgDIL9Wnapg

          • @DD

            The CDC number I believe to low. I find it really hard to believe that young women (and) men who live on our major coastal cities have such a paucity of sexual partners, especially women.

            There are many women who before they graduate from college will have that many partners from serial dating. Hell 25% of women in NYC have herpes. That speaks volumes about their sexual activities. Also, there were more abortions done in NYC in 2012 than live births. Again, the numbers just do not fit.

            • Hi Jules

              Before you brought it up,I had never head of Herpes Simplex! Thank you.
              Genital herpes is a scary virus. I am sure you know that women get this virus much easier than men.
              And here in this article from The New York Times:
              ” But it doesn’t take a lot of partners to acquire herpes: the average is three to four lifetime
              partners. ”
              http://www.nytimes.com/ref/health/healthguide/esn-herpes-expert.html?pagewanted=all

            • @iben…

              Hello Iben!

              Yes, you are correct. It only takes one!

              What is interesting is that when it comes to the men who are spreading this virus, it tends to be a very small number. What it implies is these men are sleeping with a lot of different women.

              Also, if you look at the stats you will observe the number of men who have genetial herpes is far less than the number of women (both in absolute terms and %).

              In Washington DC, Black men have an extremely high rate of HIV infection. Many of the scientist who have studied the it attribute to: 1) High Black gay male pop, 2) Lack of use of condoms by Black gay men, 3) large numbers of Black men who were once in prison, where they engaged in sex with other men, and now are having sex with men and women, ) overall much lower rate of condom use by Blacks in Washington DC and nationally.

            • Jules,

              I also think the number to be a bit low. I’m in my thirties and the most chaste women I know all have between 4 and 6 previous partners. I regularly run into women in their early 20s who’ve already had 50+ partners (including one who claimed to have slept with 200+ men by here 25th birthday).

              But then I have to remind myself that I tend to roll with a relatively young, hip, and urban social group. I grew up in a very rural area in the south where it’s not terribly uncommon for a girl to marry her first or second serious boyfriend. There are probably millions of these men and women out there bringing the median average down.

              But yeah, if you’re an urbanite or surburbanite, I would guess that the average for your peer group is probably at least twice as high as what the CDC states.

    • Cornelius Walker says:

      I think with this site being The Good Men Project there is a bias in the articles towards being concerned about men.

      An interesting question one might ask is why women such as yourself are being so poorly served by the media geared towards women. Reading those sites, it’s almost as if the answer to your question of “how can I get more sex?” is to somehow get Angelina Jolie’s boobs and Jennifer Aniston’s abs.

      • Cornelius, Ha. You have a point there about it being The GMP. However, it was one of those things I kinda missed as I got to this article from facebook.

        I so totally agree with you about the media. I know it’s wrong somehow, but it seems to me fat women aren’t supposed to be sexual beings. J-Lo’s butt could be added to your list. I have talked to a couple of men I met on the internet who were interested until looks came to play. While they are fully entitled to want more athletic women, it doesn’t take many of these to make me believe there is no “market” out there for me.


        Steve: thank you. That’s an interesting way to look at it. I’ve mostly shied away from any kind of marketing theories, but perhaps that’s been a mistake. However, as I said, not sure there’s a market out there for me. I guess that’s a problem for a lot of us (people) in general, we lack the self-confidence to go out there and find that target group of ours that corresponds to our wishes and needs. Sometimes those wishes and needs also might need re-evaluation. What really is important? Is it a six-pack (on either sex) or is it something else completely?


        Joanna, thank you as well. This is quite a good conversation that this article has going with a lot of interesting points from many people.

    • The data I have show that men overwhelmingly dominate the “I need to get more sex” vocal whining department. (Hell, I ran that dept. for years) Women’s numbers may equal them, but not in the acoustic volume.

      I believe it would be hard to write a concise article for both men and women who want more sex. We’re equal – but different.

      Teaching a woman how to be physically and emotionally attractive to men sounds a little different than vice-versa. Though, MANY of the concepts apply equally. That’s another topic altogether.

  14. I like this essay a lot Harris, style and content both. BUT- I’m dismayed about this very misleading sentence; “The goal of evo-psych is to show that our modern behavior is inborn, that everything from whom we’re attracted to, to social dynamics, is born out of evolution instead of societal change.” Harris, no legit scientist on either side of the perennial nature/nurture debate still believes that human behavior is exclusively the result of one or the other. The science is pretty conclusive; we become who we become as a result of many complex interactions between genetic heritage AND cultural environment. A smart guy like you should know better -or at least fact check yourself before making such a sweeping generalization. Propagating disinformation is toxic to critical thinking.

    • Yeah, exactly. Also, it is not the “goal” of evo-psych or any other science to push a particular agenda. The goal of evo-psych is not to “show that our modern behavior is inborn,” it’s to investigate to what degree it is and how we may be affected by it.

  15. Weed, Coke and Quaaludes were pretty sure fire at one time…
    Puppies and babies have also worked…
    Booze is a pretty effective tool.
    And don’t forget announcing you’re planning on getting married.
    I observed gold chains, platform shoes and Trans Ams got it wet for a lot of guys.
    But at the same time I was working Levi’s, LLamas and F-150s…
    Lying about the size of one’s ranch, boat, plane and bank account are perennial, and proven, favorites.
    Evidently there is a whole science of PUA right there next to penny stock trading and online aromatherapy…
    Me- I’ve found over the past 40 some years the most effective trick is asking…

  16. Hi Jules
    May I join your discussion with Paige?
    Can you tell us when does a woman become promiscuous Jules?

    And when does a man become promiscuous ? Do we have the same standard for both sexes?

    I have seen many different definitions of promiscuity for women in 2013 ,,like having had more than 20 sex partners in her early twenties. But I wonder how men see this. And I wonder how you can see if a woman is promiscuous ? How do you know ?

    I am not talking of persons that is obviously messed up sexually and otherwise, just everyday ordinary woman you meet in your way through life.

    • @iben…

      The same standard exist for men and women. Since I am hetero man, I cannot “enforce” the rule for men. I feel that is women’s responsibility, if it matters.

      You can really NEVER honestly know Iben. All you can do is ask her #. If she refuses to answer, then you will know…Just my belief. I think a woman of character would not find such a question offensive.

      Obviously, it depends on her age. If she is say 20 and has had 10 men, then I would consider her promiscuous. On the other hand if she is say 40-50 and had 10 lovers, I would not consider her such.

      Where do I draw the line? 10 lovers Iben for a woman my age (52).

  17. I think this is an interesting topic. When I look back on my life from my middle aged perspective, I remember many times when I was horny and lonely and desperately wanted sex, yet I did not see out casual sexual encounters. Why not? I think it was a mixture of things. Fear of being “slutty,” definitely. Fear of personal safety, pregnancy and STD’s also. Also lack of opportunity. It’s not true that women can get sex whenever we want with whoever we want. I wanted to have sex with a normal, reasonably attractive guy who seemed safe and fun and wouldn’t make the experience feel weird or shameful. Finding a guy like that – an extreme challenge, to put it mildly. The thought of just picking up a strange guy in a bar was terrifying to me. I’m not the hottest woman around, struggled with my weight at times, and that seriously limited my options too.

    I had a casual sex a couple times in my 20’s with guys who were friends of mine. Even though I liked those guys, it felt weird and icky and awkward later.

    To be honest, I also worry that my “number” is already to “high” simply because I was in and out of a lot of short term relationships in my 20’s. When you get a new short term boyfriend every 6 months or a year, it adds up. My number is not shockingly high but I think it’s too many and I don’t want to add to it. I know that sounds silly but it bothers me sometimes. I had very low self esteem in my 20’s and I’d have sex with guys who seemed interested in dating me because I thought it would keep them interested. Then I also went through long celibate periods in my life where I felt miserable because men seemed totally uninterested in me, even for sex.

    I think the article makes a lot of good points but I’m not sure it captures the complexity of women’s feelings and experiences around sex. It paints the standard view of attractive women constantly fending off suitors. That is only part of the picture.

    • “I wanted to have sex with a normal, reasonably attractive guy who seemed safe and fun and wouldn’t make the experience feel weird or shameful. Finding a guy like that – an extreme challenge, to put it mildly. ”

      Sarah, girls, get over yourselves. This is one of the problems that I took up on demonizing male sexuality blog.
      50% of the problem is you girls. Most guys are funny, normal and can be attractive. What most of them need are a girl that lets them. Opens up for them to be that and makes them relax. This idea that there are alot of dysfuncgtional guys is wrong. And it sounds assholish. Just reverse the genders. A guy that complains that most girls are “not normal”. Asshole right. Stop doing that.
      It dissheartens alot of cool and sweet guys out there.

      • Nistan,

        Brilliant!

        When two people with that mindset meet, anything is possible. I need to check out your blog. What’s the URL?

        Steve

        • I have to regretably inform you that I have no blog at the moment.
          I have considered it, but haven’t got the time for it.

          I appreciate the gesture regardless. :)

        • Steve, Nistan said: “Sarah, girls, get over yourselves. ” Do you think this sounds like a productive way to address a concern or one that sounds more confrontational?

          I am also a littel bothered by the picture Nistan paints that women are the ones responsible. Such as his comments that what men need are girls taht “let them”. We are apparently responsible for what happens and we are apparently responsible for making a man open up to them. Isn’t that the responsibility of both?

          He also implied that Sarah sounded “assholish”. That’s pretty imflamatory.

          He didn’t really even acknowledge Sarah’s experiences except to tell her to get over herself and to “stop doing that”..

          • Hi Erin,

            Sure, his remarks were edgy, abrasive, and direct. He could have done better. However, I talk to men like this all the time with a brotherly kind of love and kick in the ass tone.

            My support of his remarks were due to the implied advice that women have tremendous power and ability to positively influence their interactions with men. Women DO have that ability. It’s incredible and they need to learn how to use for good. Why don’t they use it more?

            Nistan seemed to defend the millions of good guys out there who only need some good feminine energy to help them shine. I like that. I tell the same thing to men all the time. Women can use a good dose of confident, respectful manliness to help build trust and respect. A lot of these “good guys” need some guidance as well.

            We both have tremendous abilities. It IS the responsibility of both. BUT, neither should wait around for the other to go first, though, I tell men all the time they should go first. Why? Because your post is yet another data point telling me women really prefer men to go first.

            How do women use their tremendous abilities?

            The same way I tell men, but with feminine energy. With kindness, compassion, and confidence. Ask questions – actually listen. (use the 30 second rule -once he stops talking, say nothing more for 30 secs – give him a chance to think and share)

            Compliment him. Accept him as he is. Avoid cynicism and male bashing jokes. Try to be more interested than interesting. And don’t take crap. As soon as a guy crosses the line (your values) , tell him so and set him free.

            Alison Armstrong (Celebrating Men/Satisfying Women) has many good articles about understanding how men NEED women to help feel safe and attractive. Some women love her, some hate her. She has some very good, practical advice about appreciating some of the key differences between men and women.

            • Steve,
              Unfortunately, Nistan isn’t just communicating with you here. If he wants women to understand his position, he’d do better to not dismiss Sarah’s experience or telling her to get over herself. If he was talking privately to you, it might be a different matter. But he’s got a whole other audience here that he wants understanding from and he needs to be aware of how dismissing their own feelings sets him up to fail from getting the outcome he really wants with them.

              I was all ready to ask you what tremendous abilities women had before I finished reading your post so I appreciate your ability to foretell that question and to answer it with good information.

              It’s good advice: Kindness, compassion, confidence and true interest in him as a person. And I think these are important and necessary qualities in a woman’s relationship with a man. But I haven’t exactly experienced holding tremendous power because of my ability to showcase these qualities (give or take on the confidence because that one is a bit of a battle for me.)

              The truth is that most of us average girl types infact do have the kindness, compassion, confidence (give or take) and true interest in him as a person. But we don’t have the hot bodies and big bright shining confidence that really seem to ignite a man’s attention. Kind, thoughtful, compassionate girls with confidence that might be there but not burn as brightly don’t always get the guy. Even the good, nice, kind guys. A lot of women out there very well may use this “tremendous power” but it doesn’t feel like a power at all because despite showing all these qualities, a lot of women still get passed over for the more attractively dynamic woman that exudes a more wide brand or sex appeal.
              Often, us average types, despite all our kindness and compassion experience men that want to use us as a booty call, men that will spend time with us to pass the time until they find something better, men that never even really wanted to acknowledge our presence, men that made snide comments about our bodies.. you get the idea.

              Sure, place a really good looking woman who is kind, compassionate and attractive ; and she is a powerhouse. But us regular girls don’t hold that same kind of power.
              I have noticed that some men tend to treat women differently depending on the value they see in a woman’s beauty (or lack of). I’ve seen men be polite, kind, charming to beautiful women only to see that effort fall away when another woman didn’t fit his ideal of feminine beauty. This doesn’t mean he’s a terrible guy but it certainly says something about how men qualify women and the qualities that are important and who men deem worthy of their best qualities themselves instead of believing that all women deserve their own kindness and politeness.

              I can be as kind and compassionate as I want, and a man might walk away thinking I sure was sweet, but I can’t force men to be attracted to me. I can’t force men to treat me nicely. I can’t force a man’s eyes from not wandering to the 25 year old in the tight mini dress when we were having a good conversation even as I’m smiling at him, nodding my head, asking him questions and not judging.

              I will always do my best to treat others with kindness, compassion, understanding and true interest in them as a person. It feels really good to be able to give another person those kind of gifts. it feels really good to be able to show that softness to a man. But those qualities don’t always translate into “tremendous power”. Unless you’re the type of women that holds a wide appeal to a wide range of men, the stereotypical “hot girl”.

              I agree there is power in kindness and compassion. I just disagree that these are really the qualities that men appreciate and open up to the most. Because I’ve shown those qualities and I’ve failed more times than I succeeded.

              And this is somewhat what Sarah was getting at. Denying women a vast array of experiences by assuming that if all women are kind and compassionate enough, all men will suddenly be able to shine.

              I don’t think your totally off the mark though. You can’t argue with showing men kindness and compassion. But I do think there is a lot more gray in there about how men really respond to these depending on the package (woman) they are wrapped up in.

              I’ll check out Alison Armstrong. Never heard of her before but i’m interested enough to check it out from your comments.

      • Hi Nistan

        I guess you are a man?
        You invalidate Sarah’s feelings and experience. She is open and share with us private thoughts that you simply brush aside.

        Invalidation of others is cruel. Stop it.

        • Hi Iben!

          Wow. This is a really good example of how differently two people can experience the same thing. It’s why communication can be so challenging.

          I assumed Nistan is a woman and that the overall message was supportive of a woman’s ability and power to attract and lead men in productive ways.

          “What most of them need are a girl that lets them. Opens up for them to be that and makes them relax.”

          That’s what I tell men all the time. Make it safe. Make it comfortable. Don’t judge. Let the “real” person shine.

          Let’s explore the communication difference. I can remember having conversations like this with my ex and wondering how she could see things SO differently.

          • Hi Steve

            We have at least two women called Sara/ Sarah in this online community GMP. One is a lawyer( or do you Americans say attorney?)

            Each time Sarah shares with us her experience with men,she meets intense negative reactions from men online . Why is that?

            I guess it is because she smashes the myths about what it is like to be a woman,to be be seen as not sexually attractive and too intelligent company for many men.

            Some men can not believe it is true, obviously.
            Sarah has been more open than most women here and it is not well received. That upsets me.

            • thanks Iben, it doesn’t bother me, I guess I just come here to emote and get a different perspective. I hope once and awhile I learn something or someone learns from me. I appreciate your nice words :-)

      • I should have added “….and also interested in me” — that was part of the challlenge. I’m not saying “there were no good men out there” I was saying “how do I find that attractive, interesting, reasonable guy who is interested in having sex with me and won’t make it into a totally awkward and unpleasant experience and who actually likes me too?”

        If a guy won’t talk to me, how can I possibly know if it’s because he’s too shy or completely uninterested? I’m actually asking for feedback here – if a guy doesn’t assert his personality, how do I even know if we would be compatible? How do I get him to relax enough to connect?

        • The answer is simple Sarah, appoach them. Thats what us guys do all the time. Thats are wht society expect us to do. If we want to talk to a girl, we ask her. if wr want to know her personality, we ask her. Not so difficult, isnt it? Or it is? I want to ask you, why its so hard for you to know the answer, while the answer is obvious. If you want to know whether a guy interested in you, the easiest way is to approach him right? If he doesnt like you, he will reject you. Thats what us guys do all the time, to know if a girl like us or not. Now i give you the answer, can yoy do it? 😀 : D

          • Cornelius Walker says:

            Because Sarah doesn’t want to “waste anyone’s time” by approaching someone who hasn’t already expressed interest in her. She knows what she has to do – she has to approach 10 men and get shot down 9 times, or maybe approach 20 men and get shot down 19 times. That doesn’t appear to be what she wants. Approaching people and being rejected is a numbers thing, to be sure, and the odds are stacked heavily against us, but as they say with the lottery, “you can’t lose if you don’t play.”

        • Hi Sarah

          I have sympathy for you.
          As a woman I can share with you how I would talk with a shy man,a really SHY MAN.

          I never pick up men,or hook up,not do I go to bars or nigh clubs. The places I meet people are places I visit to experience something. The church ,the theater, ….a meeting for investors in stocks and equities…places like that( great places to meet lots of men!)

          Shy persons do not like others to come to close too fast. Remember that and you can talk with shy men and men that are a bit scare ( uneasy) around women.
          Simply relate to him as one human being to another human being. Forget that you are a woman and he is a man.

          So I would start a conversation,without flirting,without sending any sexual signals. I would talk with him like I talk with my friends husbands. You do not pick up men Sarah,you try to connect,find the same wave length .

          And I would not ask any personal questions. If we are on a conference I would discuss what is going on there,in the opera I would discuss the opera , in a theater I would talk about the play or the play writer. I often see many men alone in the theater( live theater).

          If he is still totally uncomfortable I will leave him alone. But that has never happened to me as far as I can remember.

          What are the signs that he is interested ?
          When a man starts to tell about himself he is often interested . But the deeply shy will probably not do that the first time you talk with him.

          Imagine you are in a film club or what we in Europe call Literature House. That is a place people meet to discuss culture,listen to authors read from their books…political debates..etc.
          If you like him a lot,tell him you use to visit this place every Wednesday night or take your lunch there every Saturday at noon. If he is interested ,maybe he will be there next week.

        • FlyingKal says:

          @Sarah,
          If a guy won’t talk to me, how can I possibly know if it’s because he’s too shy or completely uninterested? I’m actually asking for feedback here – if a guy doesn’t assert his personality, how do I even know if we would be compatible? How do I get him to relax enough to connect?

          (Sorry for late response…)
          First of all, what do you mean that he won’t talk to you?
          Do you mean that he won’t take the first step and approach you, or do you mean that he won’t answer when talked to?

          I am pretty shy, and unattractive to boot, but I just presume that if someone won’t answer when I’m trying to talk to them, that’s a pretty given sign that they in fact are not interested in either talking to me or getting to know me better.

          On the other hand, if you think someone might be interested but isn’t approaching, the only thing you can really do is approach yourself.
          Walk up to him, say Hi. Say that you noticed something about him, but don’t try to pull a joke. Shy/introverts are often very self-consious and have a high probability to take an off-hand opening as irony or hidden criticism. (For instance, IDK how old you are, but don’t tell someone in their 30’s-40’s that you think their balding spot is “cute”. Chances are that he’s been told 500 times already how unattractive it is.)
          Then, if you manage to establish a contact, I think the most important part is to engage in the conversation. Do not smother him in words, but don’t expect to be “fully entertained” either. To me, to get a connection it’s important both to listen and to be listened to. I can’t hold a monologue all night, but I can’t be interested in someone who won’t let me get a word in every now and the either.

          Best of luck to you.

      • Nistan, please don’t dismiss Sarah’s experiences. I don’t believe Sarah was implying that us girls are perfect. I sure as heck know I am the furthest thing from it. But that doesn’t mean her experiences and her thoughts on her own experiences are invalid, wrong or self-centered.

        Alot of what Sarah expressed completely resonated with me too. “It is not true that women can get sex whenever we want with whoever we want,” Sarah said. And I completely agree with this. It isn’t true. But it’s a myth that seems to still prevail. Sarah is right that this article, while it makes alot of good points, still showcases a standard view of what is very attractive women’s experiences of constantly fending off suitors. For more of us average girls, that’s not the reality we live.

        And yes Nistan, most guys are probably funny, normal and can be attractive. But not all guys treat all girls the same way. And vice versa. I’ve seen men be really funny and cool with one girl and then dismissive to another. I’ve experienced it personally. I’ve seen guys be more polite and gentlemanly to certain girlfriends of mine who are very beautiful, while not even being open to talking to me or acting like I was beneath them.

        But I will own the idea that most guys very well may be attractive. My sexuality doesn’t seem to be one that automatically is turned on just because a man is physically attractive. I’ve been turned on by attractive men and turned on by men that society wouldn’t say were attractive. I’ve been turned off by attractive men and also turned off by men that society wouldn’t say were attractive. For me, attraction is a much more complex narrative than just societies idea of what they tell us is attractive.
        I understand your feelings that being dismissive of how many cool men there are there is infact disheartening to all the cool and sweet guys out there. But it is also disheartening to see how you responded to Sarah for trying to offer a perspective that doesn’t usually get addressed by guys a lot. The struggles us average girls have with our body struggles and the way men treat us or how they are or aren’t attracted to us.

    • @Sarah—Yup, STDs is a biggie….growing up in the 80s during the AIDS freak out made sex extra taboo…

      Confronting a partner with the fact that he needs to take a medicine because you have an STD (that you got from him because you never had any other partners) is a mortifying experience…. Some guys will do anything to get sex from you, but are in total denial with the negative consequences of that… He even had the nerve to suggest that I got it from someone else (Who?! There was no one else!)

    • @Sarah..

      “When you get a new short term boyfriend every 6 months or a year, it adds up.”

      I do have empathy for how you feel. Frankly, I think you are way to harsh on yourself. I know you may have a hard time believing me. But, I do.

      What continues to baffle me is just why so many women engage in so many ST relationships? Why date someone for 4, 6, or 8 mos? I really don’t get this at all.

      Please help me understand.

      • I never intended to have short term relationships. I went into every relationship wanting a LTR. But then it would turn out we weren’t compatible, he would break up with me, I would break up with him, or we would mutually decide to go our separate ways because we were arguing all the time or whatever. I suppose every break up was different.

    • FlyingKal says:

      Sarah,
      I am a man, a bit past 40, and FWIW, I have never asked for, been borothered by, or even had the least interest to know the number of partners any one of my (precious few) girlfriends had had Before me.

  18. Hi Jules

    I think you are a decent guy with integrity.
    What bothers me with evaluating a person based on their ” number ” is that what we define as sex differs. When I read that college woman say anal sex and oral sex is NOT sex,then I disagree with them. But as long as they define sex this way they keep their number low and even see themselves as virgins.

    But lot of contact between boys and girls in their teens are in the gray sone sexually. Did I have sex at 16 when a boyfriend put his hand on my vulva and I felt nothing? I do not define that episode as ” having sex”. Dry humping,is that having sex? And so on…..
    I certainly will not say this was ” having lovers”.

    And why judge a person at 40-50 for boyfriend ( or girlfriends ) they had .20-30 years ago. Most of us grow up and mature.

    I do however understand that most of us look for a partner we can trust sexually,a partner that will not exploit us,,dominate us or hurt us in any way. For me knowing a mans number will not tell me exactly what I want to know.

    Fortunately I am comfortable with my number and hope to add at least one more before this life is over. Not for sex but for the fantastic feelings of being in love and being loved.

    • @Iben…

      Hello Iben…

      OK. You make some very good points. Sex to me is: intercourse, oral sex, anal sex, hand jobs.

      You asked,
      “And why judge a person at 40-50 for boyfriend ( or girlfriends ) they had .20-30 years ago. Most of us grow up and mature.”

      Yes, most of us grow up mature. But, how we behaved and the things were did when we were young have an impact on us. I guess Iben in my mind, I feel a woman who has been with that many men is just not right for me. It is like the best part of her went to all the others and I am stuck with leftovers.

      I truly believe the fact that my ex wife had sex with many other men before contributed to the failure of my marriage. I really do. The things I wanted to try (sexually) and experience with the woman I loved and married were denied to me. Why? She had already done this with her previous lovers. So, there was no or little consideration for what I desired (nothing weird….).

      I can vividly recall when she suggested we take a cruise. I had never been on a cruise. She had with 2 or 3 of her prior boyfriends. She wanted for us to go with another couple. I said we have not been together so why can’t just the two us go on a cruise? Her response was, ” I have already been on cruises so I want to go with my friends and their husbands. We should go as couples. I objected. I said, “NO! You mean to tell me you don’t want to go with you own husband?” I said forget the damn cruise! Why could she not agree for the two of us to go? She went with her past lovers. Am I not as good as they?

      So, she made me feel like a second class citizen. I just could not deal with the fact that she married me, but enjoyed more sex with the others. She never treated me as well (sexually) as her past lovers even though she chose me as her husband.

      So, Iben that is why I feel the way I do about this partner business. I want no part of that stuff again.

      • Hi Jules

        You obviously are a good catch for any woman ( of any color), so be careful so that you don’t get exploited and used.
        It does not sound like your wife treated you with dignity and respect. And I doubt that you were the great love of her life. She did not adore you nor did she show any deep empathy.

        Now the question is how can Jules be healed?

        I will pray for you Jules and ask that you once again become the trusting man you were before you married. I will pray that one day soon you will be able to see a woman clearly,and know if you can give yourself fully and she will will receive all of your love,emotionally and sexually.

        • @Iben,

          I thank you for all your wonderful comments. I also thank you for your prayers. I also pray that you find a new love of your life.

          I struggle internally with this issue Iben every day. I ask God am I behaving Godly. I have seen therapists, shrinks, pastors, and talked about things. I have even consulted a Rabbi!

          The best advice I received was from the pastor: “Terence, you must let go of the past.” It is simply not easy Iben.

          Again, thank you for your kind words of prayer.

  19. I’m always surprised at which of these articles gains momentum and the directions the comments threads take. For me it’s cut and dry:

    Want more sex? Either improve yourself and ask for more often or lower your standards and ask for it more often.

  20. I wonder if it would be unethical for a relatively unattractive person to purposefully seek non-seeing (blind) sexual partners for dating and sex. My dear friend riding the train with me says that if the gap is not more than 1.5 times, meaning a 5 could date a 7.5 without need for disclosure – then non-disclosure would remain ethical. I think she is twisted but I can’t put my finger on exactly why that is.

  21. This my be double posting
    Hi Jules
    What I say now may offend you,since you loved your wife.
    I think a woman with just one former boyfriend ( or lover) could have done exactly the same as your wife. Cruises , done that. Paris in May…done that, oral sex…done that, skiing in Switzerland …done that, safari I Africa …done that, make love in the rain or at the beach…done that….
    The list is endless. It takes only one man Jules to give a woman all those experiences . ONE.. Imagine meeting a widow with a perfect marriage to look back on. She had only one man,but that is part of her for ever just like your former wife is a part of you forever( but destroys you).
    You are hung up on numbers .

    But I agree with you that those who meet the love of their life as young when both are innocent are fortunate if that relationship last for life.

    But tell me Jules,do you now at 52 seriously mean what you write here:

    “✺I think women should go back to acting like themselves, thousands of years ago, and
    men should act more like women when it comes to sexuality. While I will not use the
    word “naturally”, there is a volume of evidence that show women have a stronger desire
    for variety, novelty, and erotica. This has been observed even in lesbian relationships
    too. That desire is best satisfied by new partners”✺

    Are you saying women shall have new partners to satisfy them selves , but that you will not have anything to do with women like that unless you are the first ????

  22. Graeme Daniels says:

    The misandry of this article is subtle but pervasive. It makes countless assumptions and panders to the tautologies of feminists, who conclude that women are underprivileged/disempowered/victimized and ignore anything that doesn’t fit this point of view. For example, O’Malley writes of a traditionalist society that it considers men “satyrs” when it comes to sex, unable to contain their base sexual impulses. Does this obvious insult to men even matter? Of course not, because what matters to people like Harris O’Malley is the corollary: the suppression of women’s sexuality by a patriarchal order.
    O’Malley points out (rightly) that traditionalist society has thwarted women’s reproductive rights, enabled rape without consequence, and persecuted whitches for being a threat to masculine autonomy. In our present society, he updates the argument, writing that men “react badly to a violation of a social narrative”. Women who initiate sexual contact are deemed “slutty”; they bear the social risk of being sexually aggressive.

    Really? O’Malley is perhaps being ironic in the use of the word “aggressive”, or else he is actively championing the cause of women’s “aggression”, to replace that of men’s aggression. Why? Let’s be clear on something in this the 21st century, which resembles neither the middle ages or the 19th century: to be a sexually “aggressive” male is to be a would-be rapist in today’s world. To be a sexually “aggressive” male is to be a figure of distrust, of contempt, if not ridicule. You can still be a player in this society if you look like Ryan Gosling or Channing Tatum, but if you don’t then you’re a sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen, or a would be sex offender; a social pariah. Does this happen to women? Tell us, Mr. O’Malley, of disempowered women, “bearing the social risk”, and bearing other parts of themselves, or being “sexually agressive” who are later arrested, jailed, told to go live in a desert and steer clear of schools, their mug shots spread over the internet for friends, family, and would-be (or not) employers to see. Tell us of female politicians, community business leaders, whose careers are finished because of scandals…scandals about sex. Tell us more about how the media is punishing women’s sexuality!
    Yes, I know. They deserve it, right–those evil, sleaze-bag men? They’re guilty, not merely persecuted. You know that for a fact, right? And my fears of rejection or ostracism are simply neurosis: mine and others’ “social resistance” to sexually aggressive women, the glorious winds of change. You pompous ass. You may get laid validating women’s fears of men while implicitly pathologizing and invalidating men’s fears. Ironically, society still wants men to take risks, be the ones to take initiative, risk “getting shot down” in the parlance of men, and be the fodder for hot chick/dumb guy beer commercials (so objectifying of women!). O’Malley is right when he says that men are goaded by peers into being sexually active, but it’s not just about being sexual, or sexually free. It’s about risk: putting one’s self out there to be either accepted or rejected, only without the prerogative of crying about whatever happens. In my opinion, this is why porn use and homosexuality is offensive to some men. They are pastimes that represent men’s opting out of traditional risks, which is deemed cowardly.

    Keep telling feminists what they want to hear, but remember, Mr. Malley, that you’ll have to modify your complaints depending on the context. A warning: in the progressive environment in which you are staking out ground, the outrage of ethnic minorities still carries more charge than that of women. Take those complaints of women like Newsweek editor Tina Brown, whom you describe as “pushing back against women owning their sexual interests” through their criticism of sexually active younger women: imagine those are white women dating men of a different race or culture. With a PC readership, it is one thing to ignore the subdued yet widespread contempt for the sexuality of the privileged white male. But the perceived villainizing of ethnic minority men is a hotter topic than yours, and it would supersede your precious concerns about female sexual autonomy.

    • Hi Graeme

      Can you write more about what you say here:

      ✺”But the perceived villainizing of ethnic minority men is
      a hotter topic than yours, and it would supersede your precious concerns about female sexual
      autonomy.”✺

      I do not know if you are Australian,American or live somewhere else. Please tell those of us that live abroad more about what you bring up here.
      We are persons from all over the world on GMP and not all of us are super informed about life in The US. I am not.

    • Graeme,

      No one could have said this better and with lucidity. Thanks for such a well written commentary.

      O’Malley does pander to the feminist. Rarely does he accord any blame for the current gender impasse to women.

      As a Black man in America, I have not experienced what most White males are going through. However, because I do have man White male friends, I see the anguish and torture they are experiencing. Most of these guys are well educated, successful, and very respectful of women. They are in their 30s and 40s. Most of these guys are not players, they are not PUA men, they are not woman haters. All they want is to be treated with respect by women instead of contempt or a potential rapist. These men are human being too.

      The real sad tragedy in all of this is these men are family oriented and simply want a good woman to enjoy companionship, LTRs, or marriage. Why are they being punished? There is no reason for such suffering.

      Yer, the feminist narrative continues to propound the notion that most men are damn near sexual predators! Yet, many women still have sex with players, dangerous men, and other unsavory characters. Why? It’s viewed as sexual freedom, sexual empowerment, and a way to destroy the perceived villain: patriarchy. What rubbish, indeed.

      I just left my Walmart pharmacy. While in the store I saw a very well dressed woman. She was wearing favorite I like on women: peep toe pump with a sling back strap. I offered her a simple compliment and told her she looked lovey. She said, “Thank You.” I moved on to finish getting my other items. I had no interest in trying to hit on her. I have a wonderful girlfriend.

      When I walked away, I wondered to myself just how would this woman would have reacted if I was a White guy. She was white and attractive. I wondered if she would have shunned Todd, one of best white male friends or saw him as a sexual predator. Was she open and easy going because I was a well dressed Black guy? Or is that just her personality?

      It is very sad that this is what it has come to in America between the sexes. Truly sad.

    • Great comment Graeme! Neither the author nor society seems to focus much on the double edged sword that is male sexual “aggressiveness”. On the one hand we are expected to take risks, show confidence and engage in movie worthy double entendre. Yet, often doing just that results in sexual harassment accusations for being a “creepy” guy, if one does not meet that particular woman’s standards for attractiveness. One can automatically be judged a potential rapist or stalker simply for trying to engage in conversation. Encouraging women’s sexual aggressiveness while society at large seems to be punishing men’s does nothing for gender equality.

    • Wow Lisa et al- how about you take on Graeme as the counter balance to Ask THE Feminist?

  23. Hi Elissa

    Blind persons have friends like the rest of us,and they ask their friend :” do you like my new girlfriend ? Is she pretty?”

    Disable persons are as valuable as anybody else. To think you have the upper hand just because a partner has health problems is naive.

    But I understand a woman’s wish to be loved no matter what she looks like. We all dream of that.

  24. Sure and agree – everyone is valuable, though not really what I was wanting to illustrate by the example. If a certain characteristic of attractiveness does not matter to a certain group of potential partners, then is it unethical to exploit (exploit may be too harsh a word) that aspect?

    Can you simultaneously be an “ally” AND exploit a “don’t really care” characteristic of a narrower group of potential dating and sexual partners?

    More precisely: if a man realizes that progressives are less likely to include upward mobility as part and parcel of overall mate attractiveness, and then targets this group of potential mates more so to increase his chances of dating and sexual success – is this targeting unethical or just being smart about dating?

    We tend to target often on less tangible traits and few bat an eye at the practice: honesty, loving nature, supportive etc – yet tend to frown in other areas of targeting that are more tangible: height, weight, social class, ethnicity, sugar mommies and daddies etc

    It seems that some targeting is viewed as more ethical than other types and I don’t believe it is strictly/always due to the effort required for one to hold that specific characteristic – it may take much more effort to gain social class than it is to have a caring personality trait.

  25. Hi FlyingKal

    I wish I knew the answer to how we all could have passionate long lasting relationships.
    Harris O’Malley does not have a theory of women’s sexuality. As far as I can see he shares with us many different interesting hypotheses,many of them contradict each other.

    It is complicated,and women also have different personalities just like men have.
    I for example can not understand why someone wants bondage,SMS and kinky sex. For other it is the preferred way to have sex and they probably can not understand me that is happy with plain vanilla.

    What is the common trait in the men I have desired wildly? It probably is not the same traits in men other woman like. But one I know,they were men I would have like to have children with, they had a “father quality ” and loved children.

    Some men will not build a nest.
    Some men will not have children.
    Some men have sex-brains like Nyxy writes.

  26. Sorry my typo
    I had never heard of….

  27. It’s funny to me that this thread has already expanded to 120+ comments, many of them having nothing to do with getting more sex. And that I think is the big problem. Most people who are out meeting great people and having great sex aren’t spending significant amounts of times discussing it intellectually.

    This is the one thing that stood out to me most during my short stint in the PUA community. The guys who spent the most time in the forums and spent the most time involved in the group were often the guys who had the most trouble meeting women. It took me a long time to figure out why (since I was unintentionally blinding myself to this tendency in my own behavior): rather than going out and removing the barriers that prevented them from getting sex, they spent all their free time talking about those barriers or blaming women for not wanting to look past them.

    The guys who eventually became good with women all followed the same playbook. They went out a lot, spent time with the women they were wanting to sleep with, and watched what kinds of guys they hooked up with. Eventually patterns emerged, and they just started copying what those guys were doing. Occasionally it took them a while to get going, but once they had it figured out they stopped hanging around and asking questions. Then I’d run into these guys years later and they’d be having success beyond what the ever dreamed possible (and usually long after they’d left the PUA “community”).

    The only true “Unbelievable Secret to Getting More Sex” is stop looking for secrets and to go out and find success doing what everyone else has done. Hit the gym, whiten your teeth, style your hair, update your wardrobe, earn more money, and talk to more women. Yes, it really is THAT simple. If you put in the hard work upfront, you won’t need secrets any more.

    • Hi DD

      You are right,everybody should socialize more if they want to find a partner.
      But remember two things:
      1: some woman actually like intellectual men that read books and like to discuss and not blindly copy other men’s traditional behavior.
      2: issues around sexuality are not always minor.

      Most of you here can not read this article from today’s newspaper but I post is as facts .
      A psychologist has followed blogs and online discussion where women( or parents) discuss how to raise their kids.
      He warns parents because he read some parents tell others that they try to stop the baby touch ing their genitals with words like this :
      ” if you do that ,I will cut it off”
      ” if you pull your penis it will fall off”
      Or they hit the child.
      And so on. They can not cope with normal child sexuality.
      How comfortable can these children be with their sexuality and others when they grow up?
      Will following PUA advice cure them?
      And what do PUA teach about keeping passion alive in long term relationship ? Any good advice DD?

      http://www.aftenposten.no/familie-og-oppvekst/Ekspert-Ma-akseptere-at-barn-tar-pa-tissen-sin-7274253.html#.UgS5UMsaySM

      • Iben,

        In response to your comments:

        “1: some woman actually like intellectual men that read books and like to discuss and not blindly copy other men’s traditional behavior.”

        This is true, and its great for the men that are able to find these women. However, many of the commenters here seem to struggle with finding ANY decent women. It can take a long time to fish out how “intellectual” someone is. If they don’t have the basics handled, these guys won’t be able to keep a woman’s attention long enough for her to learn to appreciate his other qualities.

        Besides, women tend to oversell this idea of wanting “intellectual men.” I read tens of thousands of words each day, and often write several thousand more. Still the compliments I receive from women are probably ten-to-one in favor of my looks and attitude versus my perceived intelligence. And these aren’t bar girls that I’m talking about. I tend to date older, established professional women; many of them have graduate degrees. Even with them, having a boyfriend that is good looking and fun wins out over being intellectual.

        “2: Issues around sexuality are not always minor.”

        Agreed. Many of the better dating coaches recommend professional counseling to root out and deal with any lingering sexual issues. Those are issues that no self-respecting dating coach would choose to deal with; too many legal and ethical landmines to work through.

        And yes, there are authors out there who focus almost exclusively on long-term relationship issues, but that’s not really the focus of this article or comment thread.

        • Hi DD

          Thank you for the answer.

          I agree with what you write here:
          ✺”If they don’t have the basics handled,
          these guys won’t be able to keep a woman’s attention long enough for her to learn to
          appreciate his other qualities”✺

          Sarah asked all of us for advice about how to make shy men relax. She gets no response.

          Many shy men can be interesting company,but they do not inspire to an sexual happening unless they ” understand ” women.

      • PUAs have the most effective advice on keeping passion alive in LTRs. Check out marriedmansexlife.com. The success at that forum at turning marriages around from the brink of divorce to happy and full of sex is nothing less than astounding and light years ahead of conventional marriage counseling which has an abysmal success rate. PUA based LTR advice works incredibly well because it is based on an actual understanding of how sexual ATTRACTION is developed and maintained whereas almost all mainstream advice is based on how to create COMFORT (asexual friendship).

        • Hi Jeeves

          As a woman I will never read his books,but my curiosity brought me to read some reviews. Here is a part of one of them:

          “This review is from: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 (Paperback)
          Mr. Kay’s book is one of those that is infuriating and baffling. An RN, he seems curiously ignorant about many aspects of women’s seuxality (he seems unaware, for instance, that women masturbate). An atheist, he still hews to the notion that a man should be a woman’s “first and only” – on the insecure grounds that that way, she won’t have anyone to compare the guy to, and thus will be content, unaware of what she is missing”

          What can I say?
          Are you telling me this man knows the secrets about women’s sexaulty and passions?

          • The review is ridiculous nonsense. That he is supposed to be unaware of the fact that women masturbate is simply made up. His view is that both the woman AND the man should have had as few previous sex partners as possible because statistics show that the number of sex partners one has had previous to marriage is THE strongest predictor of divorce. That the reviewer chose to only highlight that he thought this was a good idea for women and conciously omitted that he thought it was a good idea for a man shows that the review is plain slander. As for knowing the secrets of womens sexuality and passion the fact is that he CONSISTENTLY is able to teach men how to make their wives desire them sexually. I`ve followed his forum for ages and followed the progress of the people who come there seeking advice when they are at the brink of divorce and seen how they with remarkable frequency. Conventional marriage counselors have, according to themselves, a success rate of about 10% in turning bad relationships to good ones. Athols results are light years away from that and he only gives advice through the internet, not in person.

            • Cornelius Walker says:

              His view is that both the woman AND the man should have had as few previous sex partners as possible because statistics show that the number of sex partners one has had previous to marriage is THE strongest predictor of divorce.

              I don’t believe that to be true. But even if it was…
              Self-reports are notoriously poor ways of getting information about sexual habits. Recent studies show people fudge the numbers (women underreport and men overreport; women underreport when they don’t feel anonymous; both change their reporting when they think they’re hooked up to a polygraph).

              Plus, if you’re looking at longitudinal data, you need to factor in changing attitudes towards pre-marital sex and divorce. No-fault divorce is a recent phenomena in the US. Couples that have fewer sex partners before marriage are likely to be older, and therefore less likely to divorce because of older attitudes and historically speaking less access to writ of divorce.

            • Hi Jeeves

              This mr.Kay is not all bad :)
              Here I quote from his blog:

              ATHOL KAY:
              “So almost always, the critical error that starts the real relationship momentum downwards, is the husband’s.”

            • FlyingKal says:

              Hi Iben,
              I firmly believe that relationship usually start going downward because the people involved are unable to reconcile and mend their differences.

              Do you really believe that men are inherently uncapable of displying lasting love and affection?

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      ” They went out a lot, spent time with the women they were wanting to sleep with, and watched what kinds of guys they hooked up with. Eventually patterns emerged, and they just started copying what those guys were doing. Occasionally it took them a while to get going, but once they had it figured out they stopped hanging around and asking questions. Then I’d run into these guys years later and they’d be having success beyond what the ever dreamed possible (and usually long after they’d left the PUA “community”). ”

      So in other words they were good PUA’s 😉

      Because what you type, is what being a PUA is all about. Changing to adapt to the environment, good to see they put good use of what they learned.

  28. I know one thing for sure, guys that get laid don’t spend their time reading articles like this.

    Thats why i’m here…. I’m a pathetic loser with no self confidence… no matter what i do, women shit all over me. Because i have no confidence… because women shit on me….

    Fuck women, fuck feminism and fuck everyone. Fuck my life.

    • Whoa there, Alex. You’re full of crap.

      WARNING: Unsolicited brotherly love to follow. And a kick in the ass.
      I apologize for using this space for this purpose, but screw it – Alex needs to hear this.

      Even though you’re not in the mood to be told you’re wrong – I’m telling you now – you’re wrong.
      You’re not pathetic. You’re not a loser. You don’t even lack confidence.

      Those images you have are some pre-existing “program” in your head that you’ve allowed to perpetuate by beating yourself up and allowing other people to control how you feel about you. That is all they are.

      This is true. You’re full of crap when it comes to what you think about yourself. It’s true for you and millions of guys and gals who only need to see what’s possible when you realize the gifts they really have to share with other women and men.

      You just did! Your raw honesty and willingness to be open about your feelings actually HELPED every person who read it. Including me. No shit. It’s true. You’ve stirred emotion and action. You can do it again at will, every day. It will start changing how you think and feel about yourself.

      One suggestion. Go through a drive though fast food window today. Somehow make sure it’s a woman taking orders. Go inside if you have to. Order and go pick up your food. Look at her and tell her something that is TRUE to you.
      a. “You have a GREAT voice for this job!”
      b. “You rock. Thanks for being so fast.”
      c. “You’re so friendly. That’s why I like coming here.”
      d. Whatever….but make it true for YOU

      Make eye contact. Then drive away. Don’t anticipate a smile. Don’t wait for a thank-you. Don’t require any response.

      Give her the gift and move on. You WILL change her WHOLE day, maybe her whole week.

      This is one of a hundred ways to start building your confidence as a man who can give his gifts to people without needing them to like him. Do this for 30 days, every day, in different ways. Do it with women, men, and kids. Get comfortable with it. Learn to do it ONLY because it is who you want to be. You don’t expect anything from them.

      Then post your results here in GMP. Write a short article about how it went and how it felt.

      This is the beginning of the foundation you can use to change your current image of yourself. It works. It is totally your CHOICE.

      Don’t bother responding to this post. And don’t feel you need to contact me.

      This post is an example of what I’m talking about. It’s a gift to you that you may take or leave. I don’t need you to like me or agree with me. I’m just choosing to give you a little brotherly love and support today because you deserve it.

      • FlyingKal says:

        Imagine being in a group with 5-10 other guys. It might be a group of friends about the same age, they might be co-workers, or a set of complete strangers to each others. Sitting in a room or around a table at a night club, a bar, a dining restaurant, or whatever. Enter an unknown woman who wants to dance. She asks the first man in the group, nearest her point of entry, but he politely declines. She proceeds to ask the other men, but none of them are up for it. So she leaves. And although you would have been glad to dance with her, you were the only one who never got the question.
        Sure, you might think, she got tired of asking. Couldn’t be bothered to ask just everybody. But what if you are the only one not being asked. If this happens repeatedly, in different settings with different people, when does it stop being a coincident? After 5 times? After 10 times? And not that you are any worse dressed or shaped than any of the other men around, but rather the opposite.
        And if you actually tried to get up and tell her “Hey lady, I’ll dance if you want me to?” and she just give you a blank cold stare from head to toe before turning around and walking out. Or does that just reek of desperation?

    • @Alex— I agree with Steve H., …Time Out…! Although there is much that I do not appreciate with the PUA viewpoint, I must admit that Tyler Durden (Owen Cook) speaks to seemingly hopeless guys like you….he would say that you are speaking like an “AFC” (and he used to be one himself)….he has some interesting videos on youtube that speak to guys with your current attitude….fascinating words from a self-acclaimed former “loser”….go ahead and call him a “jerk” (or even me a “feminist bitch”)….whatever….check it out…or don’t check it out….

  29. Thanks for an absolutely fantastic article! As a woman who has been keenly aware of her sexuality since childhood I have so often been confused by the cultural paradigm that it’s a truism that men are the more sex-craving and enjoying beings. I do not seek multiple partners and have been in serial monogamous relationships but am strongly driven by the desire to be in a sensual, sexual relationship with a man (and three unplanned kids later – it’s had other impacts on my life!!).
    In fact, I have experienced a number of loving male partners in my long term relationships confused by the message that they are supposed to be hornier than me – and they aren’t or they are put-off by my up-front sexuality. Male partners and friends have confided in me their confusion and discomfort around the crap they are sold about men being predators and unable to control their libidos.
    Yes, women’s sexuality is a powerful thing and the need for it to be controlled in the history of the western world is so evident. Interestingly my partner now is African and he has none of the hang-ups about women’s sexuality and thinks it’s perfectly normal for a woman to be at least as sexual as men. He’s a pretty independent thinker so cannot extrapolate about all African men but he’s also dismissive of the madonna/whore complex that has really troubled former partners. Thank you again.

  30. I did enjoy the citation of Bergner and the usual tired jibes at evo-psych. If I recall correctly, Bernger actually does use evo-psych research to justify some of his conclusions.

    It really is funny to see how when it’s female sexual behaviours being reinforced, people are now all over evo-psych – but not when it was seen to be reinforcing male sexual behaviours!

  31. If women step outside the socially constructed norms of what is “appropriate” sexuality they get called Sluts (mostly by other women).
    If men step outside the socially constructed norms of what is “appropriate” sexuality they get called Creepers and Rapists.

    Now tell me, which one of those is the bigger cross to bear?

    • Except men get SO much more latitude with what is appropriate. A guy can grab my ass non-consensually and people will tell me to lighten up or that I was asking for it, I get called a slut for having had premarital sex… so no

      • Centerfield77 says:

        Ma’am,

        I’m going to respond with your anecdotal experience with my anecdotal experience.

        I’ve never seen a man grab ass non-consensually and have no consequences. Even if the girl is grinding on him on the dance floor, and he is grinding back. I’ve seen guys grabbed up by bouncers and sent flying.

        And I have seen women called sluts for having pre marital sex. But it wasnt the sex part. (though people condemn that to. I disagree with them)

        It was the type, amount and who the sex was had with.

        • Hi Centerfield77

          What you write here is interesting:
          ✺”And I have seen women called sluts for having pre marital sex. But it wasnt the sex part. (though people condemn that to. I disagree with them)

          It was the type, amount and who the sex was had with.”✺
          I think you are right.

          And maybe men are reluctant to see women as sluts if the man they had been with had a higher status that themselves ?

          Still I feel men value a woman more if they have to fight for her. It is like her resistance is a proof that she alway will be faithful to them,and no other man will manage to take her away from him. (He is wrong of course). The fact that she waits for a long time to have sex,is not a proof of anything else than her knowledge about how must men think. It is not a proof of her high moral,or having a better personalty than other women. She simply play be the old rules.

          So men say:” easy come,easy go”

          Or ” all red hot mamas end up with their mamas”.

          Maybe more discretion is expected from women, if they want a sexual happening or a fling, but not a relationship.

    • Anonymous says:

      Back to Will’s original point here, there should not be a discussion on what is more of a cross to bear for stepping outside of the social norm or appropriateness. It is simply about choice. A person should be free to have as little or as much sex as they like. So long as the sex they do have is consensual by both (or more if you’re into that kind of thing) parties. Those men (and women, because there are female rapists) who step outside the appropriate norms of social interaction are called creepers and rapists because they do not gain permission. Therefore making them a rapist. Everybody likes to think of sex and men and women having sex or not having sex as a grey area with too many shades, no pun intended to recent literature, but actually it’s black and white. You want it, so does someone else but it has to be consensual! If you follow that one simple rule sex is pretty darn easy.

    • This is an article on how to get more sex. Did you miss the point?

      If you want to write an article on why women should accept men as creepers and rapists so they can get more sex, go right ahead.

    • “If women step outside the socially constructed norms of what is “appropriate” sexuality they get called Sluts (mostly by other women).”

      Mostly by other women? Please, men slut-shame at least as much. And even worse, they act even more violent when doing so: many will stalk, send rape threats and use their state of “superior gender” to shame me and tell me how they are right and I’m wrong. That is even more hurtful and dangerous, as men are still considered the ones who dictate how sex is viewed and practiced in the straight world.

      ” If men step outside the socially constructed norms of what is “appropriate” sexuality they get called Creepers and Rapists.”
      Socially constructed norms of what is appropriate sexually says you should accept a woman’s no and never do something she does not want you to do. If you do so, of course you are a creeper and a rapist. And you think that is a bad thing that these rules exist? Stay away from me, dude.

    • In fact, that is another reason women will not be willing to have more sex with men: you men still want women to accept creepers and rapists. Are you men for real? Are you really comparing the sexual shaming of female sxuality with the well-deserved social shaming of rapists and men who can’t respect women’s boundaries? You men are the problem, and have always been.

  32. Im struggling to see how the way women feel about their own sexuality is somehow my responsibility. Youre expecting men to undo hundreds of years of social condition while women do WHAT exactly? If women want to undo the whole “Slutshaming” culture the number one solution for that is for women to stop constantly calling each other sluts and skanks. I dont think ive heard a man call a woman a slut since high school, while all of my (Feminist!) female friends do it constantly.

    The truth is, its obviously not men that turn women into prudes. We want sex from them, and shaming them for having sex with us is illogical and counter-productive to our own goals. No, it is women who do it to themselves and each other, because women treat sex as a bartered resource. The less sex they have, the more demand there is for it, and the more their sexuality is worth and can buy. This is why women hate sluts, and why so many Feminists are anti-prostitution: they “devalue” sex. The put “too much” sex out into the market, lowering its market value. If sex is freely available, it can no longer carry a premium. They can no longer use the artificial scarcity of their in-demand female sexuality to “date up”, or as a substitute for employment and labor.

    Women want sex to remain a sellers market, rather than a buyers market, in order to retain their social power. Its simple Capitalist economics. And equality is impossible under Capitalism, sexual or otherwise.

    • Hi Will

      I wish I could be polite to you,but what you write here is simply a lot of crap.:
      ✺”We want sex from them, and
      shaming them for having sex with us is illogical and counter-productive to our own goals. No, it is
      women who do it to themselves and each other, because women treat sex as a bartered
      resource. The less sex they have, the more demand there is for it, and the more their sexuality is
      worth and can buy. This is why women hate sluts, and why so many Feminists are anti-
      prostitution: they “devalue” sex. The put “too much” sex out into the market, lowering its market value. If sex is freely available, it can no longer carry a premium. “✺

      It may be your private little hypotheses but it reeks of distrust and hate of women.
      Do you seriously say the double standard exists only inside of women’s heads,while all men respect women no matter what ?
      This is not even an interesting private little hypotheses Will,and it show your lack of knowledge and education. Somehow I feel sorry for you,

    • Actually men AND women slut shame, modern feminism is pretty vocally opposed to slut shaming

    • Your comment is … weird. Being perceived as a slut carries huge social stigma and not just from other women. What man wants to date a “slutty” woman for any other purpose than sex?

      I had a handful of casual sexual experiences in my 20’s. One guy did not call me for a year after our encounter. A year! Then when he called me, he was obviously hoping for an immediate booty call. I felt humiliated, not by the sex we’d had but by what he obviously thought of me as a result of my admittedly slutty behavior with him. Having sex with a guy and then realizing later that he doesn’t care about you and probably doesn’t even like you (or not enough to be cordial to you afterwards) is not a pleasant feeling. Realizing that a man sees you as nothing but a warm body to insert his penis into feels crappy. I don’t know how else to explain it.

      • @Sarah….

        “Having sex with a guy and then realizing later that he doesn’t care about you and probably doesn’t even like you (or not enough to be cordial to you afterwards) is not a pleasant feeling. Realizing that a man sees you as nothing but a warm body to insert his penis into feels crappy.”

        Here is my disconnect with a lot of women: What about the men that women have around for sex, only? They care little about the man. In fact, they would not even consider dating him. But, fucking him is OK. There is nothing else in common.

        Sarah, how is what I described above any different than what you are complaining about? Both are/were consensual acts.

        It’s just that you appear miffed by the fact that HE is the one who was in control and not you. A booty call is a booty call.

        • I have never had a guy around “just for sex” so I have no udea what women who have those kinds of relationships are thinking. If the man in that situation is looking for something more and the woman isn’t, he could end up feeling used as well.

          I think the point I was trying to make is that for a woman, being labelled a slut is bad because it means you will have difficulty finding relationships where men view you as anything other than a booty call, as I learned with my example. It sounds old fashioned I suppose to say this, but men really won’t respect you, they will see you as an easy lay. They won’t care about you as a person – your hopes and dreams in life, your talents (outside of the sack), your goals, who you are as a whole person – none of that will matter. You’ll just be a slutty chick.

          That’s why I think it was ludicrous for the original commenter to imply that men aren’t responsible for women’s fear of being slutty. I think make attitudes very much play a part.

    • Damien Otis says:

      They treat it as a resource because men treat women like resources. Duh.

      • I would argue that women also treat themselves as resources. Look to the vast majority of under 30 women who spend 30 minutes picking the jeans that make her ass look as “juicy” as possible.

        Look to the multi-billion arms race in makeup to give women hyper-feminine features. Eye liner, eye shadow, lash extensions and false eyelashes to literally scream for attention–making many women look like racoons or drag-queens.

        If you think I over-state the case of makeup Look to this link of top 10 pictures of celebs with & without makeup. http://relatablepics.com/celebrities-without-makeup/
        How much less eager for sex do you think men would be if women stopped wearing makeup?

        Men have blame in this, but so do women. Don’t ignore women’s actions to turn themselves into commodities.

  33. Also, if women were hesitant to fill their sexual appetites because of the “inherent physical dangers” involved with being around men, then OBVIOUSLY when when did have sex, it would predominately be with small, weak men who were less capable of physically hurting them. And since we all know that the exact OPPOSITE of that is true, I think we can throw that little theory straight out the window. Anyone who pays attention know that women are actually aroused by fear and danger, not pushed away by it.

    • Actually, funny thing since women worry about small weak men being bitter about exactly this B.S. idea of who gets laid, they avoid these dudes. We’re taught to perceive men as SO threatening their size and physical strength don’t matter.

      Women are not aroused by fear (or at least not most women) did you know that it’s nearly impossible for an anxious woman to have an orgasm, like it straight up messes with sexual response.

      You know who gets laid like crazy though, queer women who are up for a night with a straight girl. I can go to a straight bar, on a week night and sit at the bar, doing nothing and within 20 minutes II’ll have a straight girl who wants me to do her in the bathroom. You know why? Because I’m a lady, women would literally rather get their rocks off with someone of a gender they’re not actually attracted to, because that’s how scared of men they are.

      • “You know why? Because I’m a lady, women would literally rather get their rocks off with someone of a gender they’re not actually attracted to, because that’s how scared of men they are.”

        Hmm, as a bisexual guy, I know its also super easy for me to have sex with straight guys. I know all of my gay and bisexual male friends have sex and give blowjob constantly with straight guys. Does it mean that all these straight guys scared of women? No, I think because its always easier to have quick sex with no emotional attachment if you’re straight with your own gender. Besides, for most of straight guys, the only way for them to feel anyone really aroused and attracted physically with them is with gay/bisexual guys. Most of them actually think straight women aren’t attracted to them physically, just emotionally, especially for one night stand. The feel of want to being desired is so strong they want to have sex with someone from gender they aren’t attracted to. Its not only straight girls that have sex with girls, many straight guys do it too, just more discreet.

        • We know that. Even more because straight dudes love the “free blowjay” with no need for reciprocration many gay/bi guys offer. And that is true most straight women will not show how much they are attracted to men’s bodies – that is part of the sexual castration.

          But the REASONS straight women will rather have sex with gay/bi women is different than the reason straight dudes have sex with gay/bi dudes. They will indeed have it because they do not want to face the dangers.

      • @Madeira…

        “Because I’m a lady, women would literally rather get their rocks off with someone of a gender they’re not actually attracted to, because that’s how scared of men they are.”

        Pure hogwash. Rubbish!!!!!

        If women were that afraid of men, then why are so many out here having sex with “strange” men they meet while on business trips, or casual hookups,…….I have been in the bars of a lot of nice hotels around Washington DC and had women hint at casual sex with me.

        Also, you fail to mention the number of women who have sex with dangerous men. Why? Because danger equates to excitement for a lot of women. Or women who have sex with men whom they don’t even trust. The bad boy, jackass bodybuilders who are screwing a bunch of women…

        You are just dead wrong. What you are saying just does not square with reality.

        • Guys, stop it. Of course SOME women like danger, just like some men like it too. Most DO NOT like it though.
          If you had women hint at casual sex with you… maybe they believe you are not danger? or you label yourself as a dangerous looking man?

      • Hi Madeira
        You write:
        ✺”You know who gets laid like crazy though, queer women who are up for a night with a straight girl. I can go to a straight bar, on a week night and sit at the bar, doing nothing and within 20 minutes II’ll have a straight girl who wants me to do her in the bathroom. You know why? Because I’m a lady, women would literally rather get their rocks off with someone of a gender they’re not actually attracted to, because that’s how scared of men they are.”✺

        Is this what these women tell you Madeira?
        Don’t you think they are bisexual or courious about you?
        And how do you react to offers like that. Why don’t they invite you back home for the night?
        Who on earth wants to have sex in the bathroom in a bar. Not me.

      • Mr Supertypo says:

        ” Women are not aroused by fear (or at least not most women) did you know that it’s nearly impossible for an anxious woman to have an orgasm, like it straight up messes with sexual response. ”

        A good 40% (at least) of women disagree with you :)

        Madeira, do u really expect me or somebody else to buy in this….babble? The majority of women likes men and are not intimidated by us. The girl you met was either bi or les. Normal women are not scared of men. This anxiety is limited to a small circle of women, who probably have been abused. What you are doing right now is projecting your problems to the majority of humans.
        my advice? find a doctor, dont float with your problems, they wont go away, they will only get worse.

        Reality check. The majority of women are not afraid of men, some women even approach men especially dangerous men and bad boys. The idea that generally females are scared of males is a myth. Yes some are, but they have a reason for it. Its not like their fear appeared out of the blue, one Sunday morning. The problem you have (or had) is yours and your own. You know your weakness, now go and find a solution.

        Good luck.

        • “A good 40% (at least) of women disagree with you”
          Really? Show us your proof that anxious women have it easy or easier to achieve orgasms. Really, do that – even more knowing most straight women will NOT achieve orgasms with men anyway, anxious or not.
          The majority of women like men and are not intimidated by men, that is true. But remember: the majority of women also DO NOT want to face danger, and that is the reason most try not to get close to intimidating men. I am not exactly intimidated by men, but will never leave with a man I don’t even know alone. Ever. And the extreme majority of women I know are the same.

          “The problem you have (or had) is yours and your own. You know your weakness, now go and find a solution.”
          if you really believe she has a problem: that is not how you treat people with problems and trauma. Cold idiot.

      • “Actually, funny thing since women worry about small weak men being bitter about exactly this B.S. idea of who gets laid, they avoid these dudes.”

        And rush headlong into “fun time” guys that (despite the warning signs) would never ever harm them like how Natalee Holloway left a bar with 3 men she didn’t know probably because their “bad boy charm” rung her bell hard.

        Good plan!

  34. THANK YOU, personally I’m extremely monogamous (now that I’ve sewn my wild oats) and yes, I do want sex, and the sex I want is weird, and base and animalistic.

  35. Great. So, any women up for challenging social norms? I promise I won’t judge you, just fuck you. Thanks!

  36. Hi Jeeves

    You write:
    ✺” because
    statistics show that the number of sex partners one has had previous to marriage
    is THE strongest predictor of divorce”✺

    Do you have the reference to this research? Since you follow his blog,can you please ask him ? It is interesting and I guess it is facts about the American society and not for all countries on this earth.

    I have heard that the number of previous marriages you have predict the chance of divorce.
    As long as most women lie to researchers about their previous numbers of sex partners I find it hard to believe this man has found recent good reliable research about this . Maybe the marriages where men believe their wife has few or none previous sexual partners last all life :)

    It is highly unlikely that one and I one factor out of many will predict what marriages will last or not. That is not how social science work.

    From my days as a student I remember a study that concluded that those marriages that end in divorce often have one or two with emotional problems,
    So the more mature and emotional healthy you are,the better chances you have for a good lifelong marriage.
    And maybe those most emotional healthy among us knows at a young age how to pick the best partner? I can believe that.

    And I confess I am a bit skeptical when a man tells me he has been marries two-three times.

    But maybe he has, I have not followed his blog.

    • Hi Jeeves

      My last sentence is unclear.
      I wanted to say that maybe this blogger do have references to solid good research about what predict divorce or not in America today.

      If one or more sexual partners before marriage mean a marriage can not last,them nearly everybody in Scandinavia would me divorced. But the divorce rate is in fact 30-33%.
      If you follow a couple from they marry and forward only 30% get divorced .

      How high is the correct rate in America with all its Puritan ethics and abstinence ?

    • Hi Jeeves

      My last sentence is unclear.
      I wanted to say that maybe this blogger do have references to solid good research about what predict divorce or not in America today.

      If one or more sexual partners before marriage mean a marriage can not last,them nearly everybody in Scandinavia would be divorced. But the divorce rate is in fact 30-33%.
      If you follow a couple from they marry and forward only 30% get divorced .

      How high is the correct rate in America with all its Puritan ethics and abstinence ?

  37. Perfect. You almost could read my (woman’s) mind. That’s exactly how we are raised in society.

  38. Some-black-guy-in-europe says:

    Hey you guys :)

    I have read everything in this post, Some other blogger from Mark Manson’s website led me here. I think it is funny and interresting to read all your posts. I hope to learn from some of it.
    @Iben is very scandinavian, isn’t it? Well, Whatever, as if thats what I am here to figure out.

    Right, I think I should share afew things with you guys about my sexual life 😀 I am laughing out loud about it myself.
    Since I moved from the town that my mom lives(which is actually where I’ve spent my whole summer this year), I have had one goal in my head: to bang as many women as possible. 😀 But just before I moved, I had graduated from high school as a 21yr old(quite normal according to DK-standards). And in the threes years in high school, I did not have sex with any woman, because I thought that: fx having a girlfriend will give me a headache and remove my focus from my studies. And yes I have quite religious background as well, so I was thinking mostly about finding/waiting for miss-right, riiiight;) Who I by the way doubt will ever show up, fucking cunt as she is, riiiight :D(if she does exist then I am sorry to call her that)
    I was quite familiar with parties, and I used to smoke a lot of weed. But I quit and went to high school. I smoke probably once a year now, and it has to be at a festival.

    Anyway here is the point of this story: In scandinavia, many people, especially single people, go out in the weekend, get shit faced, and perhaps take somebody of the taste home with them for a good shag or whatever.
    Almost immidiately after my graduation, I stormed the street of the town (theres actually just 4 night clubs, and they are all on the same street, and probably 7pubs which are scattered all over the town.
    Every thursday, friday and saturday night, I was in the night clubs hitting( mean, trying to seduce) on women, as horny as I was, riiiight:(And I mean literally somtimes walking from girl to girl, and trying to have a conversation. I wasnt even that drunk) I think I got lucky a couple of times(on the following october, and new years day 2010) The rejections were massive. One time a few girls told me to ”pal hard to get” so that I could increase my chances.
    So I moved 1hrs drive away from the town(I’ve lived by myself since I was 18), and I do almost the same thing, hitting on girls while drunk, which seems to be that, in the denmark I know, it is not very normal to seduce a woman while you are 100% sober. (unless it internet dating)
    At that moment in my new surroundings, I was glad that no one new me, and I could just”do my thang”. I got lucky a lot more than my entire life i those 3 years in the new city. In the town–>7 in the city –>24(in 3 years)
    The new city is home to DKs second biggest university. I started on a smaller university 6months ago in the same city. I must say that women here are a lot better. To say the least, I feel they are more tolerant. And totally not all of them are racists.
    When I was living in the town, I think many people could recognize me very easy. And I might have gained a reputation. ”Thats the guy who goes around hitting on everybody”reputation maybe. Sometimes I met people who I’ve never met and they knew my name.(this could also be because, I might have met them when I was drunk)
    In the new city, there is a few more black people, so I sort of melt in a bit. Since I moved here and doing the same thing as well, I’ve probably made the same reputation for myself(all because of being hornt, riiiight)
    There is a night club I really love because of the music, and the fact that they have ery few seats, so its always crowded on the dance floor. I go there almost every night I’m out. I always try to seduce here as well. But I’ve become a bit layed back now, I dont go on the dance floor asking every woman if she wants to dance, I mostly look for interresting and fun conversation with a woman who I feel attracted to. But it maybe is not so strange, I once got banned for a month for ”being too rough on the ladies”, like I was raping them or something. As I see it, sometimes I was well drunk, and I was incoherent, yes, but I wasn’t and still isn’t the only one riiiight:) Ok, I stopped getting shit-faced now, especially after that months ban. Now I only get tipsy(thats when your balance is still really good and you’re still in touch with reality, and you can talk for ages;))
    I think I now know how to approach, and have a conversation with the woman I am attracted to, its always a bit hard to get some conversations to begin,
    Me: Hi, Iam …
    Her: Hi Iam…
    Me: so do you come here often/do you live around here?
    Her: ????
    Very casual stuff riiiiight?
    That is how I start a conversation. And sometimes I just feel like teasing the shit out of women:
    Me: so they say you are the new iron woman. or if they are clearly overweight I can ask them where they workout, which is just hilarious(only in my head, I never laugh out loud infront of them:)

    Right, maybe thats enough.
    I know some of you are going to say that I have a problem: objectifying women. I love and respect women. It just happens that, every woman I am attracted to, I just want to bang her. I think I am in some sort of strugle now, every time I wake up with a hang over, I ge sooo horny. Every sunday, I masturbate like 5-8 times. That is if I did not get a woman saturday night, and even if I did(when I get home on sunday afternoon, I still jerk off)Ialso found out that I really dont want to be ever in a monogomous relationship, I just want plenty of friends with benefits. :)And perhaps one day I will adopt a child somewhere and become a single parent/da.

    Allright, now to add to the topic of this blog:
    I think that women who live in bigger cities are more sexually open, than those in smaller towns. And I think that it is easier for some women to have a one night, if they have some connect with you, fx if you are her girlfried’s classmate or whatever.
    And I have actually been lucky to meet a few women, who claim that they only are into black/african men. woooord, actually the one I lost my virginity to was claiming that.

    And Lastly: You guys on this blog who are not satisfied with your sexlife, I think you are afraid of rejection. I have been reading a lot from Mark Manson., And I have decided to do some work with myself, I know I am probably what they call needy. I have a lot of neediness.
    So, be very welcome to coment on my sexlife story, I am happy to write it here. Maybe you’ve got some feed back. 😀

    • @Some-black-guy-in-Europe..

      “Every sunday, I masturbate like 5-8 times.”

      What, you masturbate on the Sabbath?! Infidel!!!!! LOL!!!!

      Just kidding man.

      On a more serious note, I too have a religious background and it does impact how I conduct my self. I believe in exercising restraint, being kind and compassionate, and having humility in life. You should treat women the same way my friend.

      I know that many women are “promiscuous”. However, you as a human being should always seize the high ground. Being a good person is best in the long run.

      Also, please refrain from using the “c” word. It is like using the “n” word here in a America. It is degrading and derogatory.

    • Man. You do smoke a lot of weed, uh? Damn.

  39. Some-black-guy-in-europe says:

    And I appologise for not being well structured in the previous post. It probably says a lot about my life 😀
    I also forgot to mention that, I think women of all colours are beautiful :) And that I have never raped anyone.

    And oh yes: Now when I try to hit on a girl, her friends come over and says that she is her lesbian lover(which is in almost sll cases isnt true) For a guy who is used to rejection, that is the only one that plays with my mind. It makes me a bit angry. I remember one girl rejected me like this: Me Hi I am … Her: Oh, I think that is too aggressive.I am not interested.
    think that she needs a reward for that masterpiece of rejection. Unlike those who try to confuse the shit out of you. They are actually making thins worse. I think a lot of men wouldn’t have any problem walking away from NO that come stright out, instead of playing that ”this is my girlfriend” shiet, when you feel the need to tell them that one of them is fat and ugly and the other is semi fit, and that she could for once wake up to something better looking than what is waiting her the next morning. or whatever, riiiight. (Evertime I write riiiiight, is because I am immitating elegant elliot often’s gangsta talk, riiiiight.

    • Hi Some-black-guy-in-europe

      Yes,Iben is a scandinavian.
      I and hopefully others as well will respond but give me time.

      Just two question. Are you born and grew up in Denmark? The reason why I ask is this. I simply wonder if you know all the cultural codes or not.

      And why do you want to have sex with as many women as possible? Honestly .

      There are some Scandinavians in this community GMP, but most people are from America. Some live in Australia, Asia, Europe, but not many tell us they live in Africa or the Middle East.

    • Hi Some-black-guy-in-europe says:

      You write :
      ✺”every time I wake up with a hang over…..”✺
      All I can say is that I am WORRIED about you!
      Unfortunately you are totally naive about alcohol . And to copy Scandinavians drinking patters, binge drinking is not wise.

      ✺” I once got banned for a month for ”being too rough on the ladies”, like I was raping them or something. As I see it, sometimes I was well drunk, and I was incoherent, yes, but I wasn’t and still isn’t the only one riiiight:) Ok, I stopped getting shit-faced now, especially after that months ban. Now I only get tipsy”…….✺
      I do not think you was raised in Denmark.

      ✺”And I have actually been lucky to meet a few women, who claim that they only are into black/african men”…….✺
      OK,this one is tricky. Yes large Scandinavian cities have places where some black men like to meet,and find women that is ” into black men”.

      Now you are a student at the university in Å.
      What is your dream? A young girl that wants you in a nightclub where some women go to have sex with black men,or a fellow student that think you are cute and admire you for your personalty and knowledge in your field?

      Where is your dignity and feeling of self worth ?

      ✺ “I know I am probably what they call needy. I have a lot of neediness.”…….✺
      Tell us about what you need the most :) persons here are quite nice to each other.

      ✺” I remember one girl rejected me like this: Me Hi I am … Her: Oh, I think that is too aggressive.I am not interested”✺

      Again I get the feeling that you did not grow up in Denmark,and now you are like a kid let loose in the candy store.
      Even if Scandinavian countries are sex friendly we are at the same time more subtle when we initiate contact sexually.

      And men that are what we called butterflies that fly from one flower to another get a reputation. And if you give a girl STD, can also give you a reputation.

      When did you last test for STD?
      Who finances for your studies?
      What is your ambitions Some-black-guy-in-europe ?
      Do you concentrate well in class and learn fast with a hangover ?

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      Some-black-guy-in-europe >

      Min veeeeen 😀

      I know exactly what you are talking about, you feel the fire in your body. I know cuz I also do. But fortunately I manage to keep it in control. Some girls can be so hot that they are astonishing. Trust me as a DJ I get exposed to these girls all the time.

      A advice stop pursuing after easy sex. Instead be cool, funky and funny. Dont buy in all that hyper masculine stuff. The guys who are always serious (bad boy and gangsta look) usually are the one’s who walk home alone. Be funny make them laugh but don’t embarrass yourself. Be cool, dress funky and be funny. You make them laugh then half of the work is done. Never ever push to much, dont disrespect them and dont drink to much. But I guess u already know all this.
      And masturbate less, because to much wanking makes your King Kong soft and u end getting boring in bed. 😉

      In small communities people tend to be more territorial, in bigger cities people are more open, you are right in that. But I know Danes, and I know what makes them suspicious toward foreigners. Don’t criticize Danmark and danish people, they get annoyed (understandably so) let them do the criticism (lots of Danes use this for testing you), don’t agree or disagree with them, just tell them ‘thats the way it is’ and don’t act that you are living in your country of origin (assuming you are not born in DK) far to many fellow foreigners do this mistake, and they wonder why people shun them. And finally don’t brag. Two words Jante loven (the law of the Jantes, people in who lives in DK are already aware of this) But maybe u know this already.

      There is nothing wrong wanting or desiring women, but how you turn this in action is where the right or wrong hammer falls. I know cuz I have been there. All women are different, some just look for a night in heat, others don’t. Some are attracted by foreigners others don’t. Dont use your skin color or your accent . Use your personality instead. I had women literally going crazy because of my Italian accent or brown eyes. But I also met women who made fun out of me. Some nights I even went home (in company) with the conviction that I was a super hero in the dating world with super magnetic seducing powers, enough to put Neill Stauss, Mystery and Tylor Durden to shame. Other times I was literally and utterly humiliated and dragged down in the mud of shame. So use your psychical gift as a bonus. point everything on your personality.

      If you are still interested in girls, next time u r out for clubbing ask the local DJ that you like to help him out and if he can take you as a practicant. You learn the job and then if you are good you substitute him or start as your own as part time Dj. As I do. My real profession is designer, furniture and jewels, but I do a part time job as DJ, yes I have time and energy for this. Trust me I never met so many girls in life since I started as a professional DJ.
      But not everything that shines is gold. I also had women treating me like a retard because of my part time job. And others shuns me, because they are afraid I get to much female attention at the clubs.

      OK few considerations, some women claims they are married or they have a bf or they are lesbians if u push to much. Dont push. STIK EN FINGER I JORDEN (a danish way of saying, it means dont rush, take a good look around first) be confident, and I cant stress enough, be funny and respectful. Funny because even if nothing happens, at least you have a great night, and the girls will remember you with a big smile on their face. And probably they will meet you again. IF you are lucky, they will be into you. Respectful, because nobody likes to be disrespected. And disrespect closes all the doors, after u got kicked out.
      Its sound like a preach, or im trying to patronize you. Not my intention, Im talking to you, but not about you. Some may find this useful next time they go out. If they are living in DK.

      Okeydokey…..my friend. I have a question for you, when you are out and clubbing what language do you speak? Danish or English?

      ps

      There are pills against hang over now 😉

  40. Constance says:

    All I have to say is: THANK YOU!!!!

    And maybe: Why would you use a dumb word like “murderess”?

  41. Hi Flyingka
    No I do not see men as incapable of long lasting love and affection.

    I tried to joke a little with Jeeves about this coach since I hate Alpha male talk. But this mr. Kay is for men to be both alpha and beta.
    For women it is interesting to read the advice men get from coaches about “how to get more sex.” All women should visit those blogs and learn about negging, wingmen , sarging and all their hypotheses about women.

    The coach the Danish guy refers to Mark Manson ,has stopped working as a PUA coach and now advice men against their toxic advice( his words).

    Of course I do not think men can not love or lack feelings. . Men in my family always cry at Christmas Eve when we read from the Bible before dinner.
    And most of my boyfriends friends have been artists or researchers. Creative ,emotional and loving. It was a wrong move from me to marry a lawyer( no offense to other layers online).

    But I do have trust issues with men.
    Since we discussed what factor is the one most important to predict divorce I browsed through some reports and saw my background had many of the factors that predicted divorce. And it was not my ” number “.

    When you have trust issues,you often give up when conflicts arise in love relationships , instead of solving them as a mature person.

    • @Iben—I agree with you… PUA culture can be so formulaic…the men are encouraged to become “social ‘bots”…hitting on women with the same stupid lines and magic tricks or “kino” moves….

      I was at a party where lots of people from my high school attended…many of us brought our spouses…and we all just talked like we were back in high school or college….human to human…we talked about our travels, our kids, and our lives…. For once, no one was trying to sidle up to me and “kino” me or “escalate” the interaction…is it so hard to treat a woman like another human being with thoughts, opinions, and life experience?

      • Mr Supertypo says:

        ” is it so hard to treat a woman like another human being with thoughts, opinions, and life experience? ”

        Absolutely not, its quite easy actually.

        • Not that easy for most American men, actually. Even when they treat you like a human, it is still as a kind of inferior human.

          • I agree. About 60-70% of men make me feel this way. 70-80% in a big city. But the nice, normal guys who literally just see you as the other half of the population, and not as the lesser half, are out there. I married one. :) Definitely worth the time to find one of them!!

  42. some-black-guy-in-europe says:

    woooow, finaly someone who understands me. 😀

    Thank you soooo much Mr super typo :) and iben as well. :)I will get back at ya within some 25-30 hrs :) cheers :)

  43. Where does love figure in all this?

  44. “advocating being a feminist ally because it will help you get laid”?

    Please. Don’t pretend to be a feminist to get in my pants.
    Either be a feminist because you truly care about equality, or don’t bother. It will only backfire, and quite badly.
    It takes time and commitment to investigate one’s entitlement issues as a male, to consider how a majority of women have been sexually assaulted or a vic of DV and what that very real factor means for negotiating relationships… Most guys don’t seem to have the time to think about this shit unless it’s affecting their ability to get laid — and then they’ll only care up to the point at which they can get what they want. It’s disingenuous. And women eventually see through it.

    so otherwise good article, but i would re-word that bit.

  45. This is amazing. Science turns my mind more than anything; I’m dwelling on this: “Female primates don’t actually trade sex for protection and support; in fact, it’s more beneficial for the female to mate with many males because of the way it obscures paternity and helps prevent the threat infanticide from males who might want to make her fertile again. “

  46. How does this help in any way to get laid? The advice is very longterm, society related – but does not help the single individual to get laid. Of COURSE women want sex too – but to make it actually happen, it takes more to just “know” that. Frankly speaking, this article rather uses this catchy headline to seed the (in fact good) ideas about modern feminism of the author – but it’s definitely not helping in any way to get laid in a concrete way.

    • I would say that the whole “being non-judgmental” part really quite helps. There is no trick to get laid every time you try. Are you more likely to get laid if you respect women, respect her boundaries, and don’t judge her (or other women) when they are sexually open? Yes. Yes, I think so, as a lady who would totally be into a guy like that.

  47. Hetero- relationships in the US are slowly becoming a legal liability for guys.

  48. I agree with Sven, this article won’t help you get laid. Ha! But it’s full of interesting conversation, and bits that might tip you (a little more) in the direction of more fun and intimacy.

    Sven’s also correct, IMHO, that this is an essentially ”modern feminism” piece.

    Without negating anyone else’s arguments, I’d strongly encourage men to limit their exposure to feminism. It will *not* improve your chances of getting laid, and it will likely weaken your relationships w/ women. Particularly your sexual relationships.

    >> Please. Don’t pretend to be a feminist to get in my pants.
    – deFor

    Thank you. “White knight” was an interesting term in this piece.

    I think many of us – women most of all – can spot the men that are trying to “nice guy” their way into women’s hearts and panties. Which is always… gross. We’ve also all seen these same “feminist” men get bitter that their niceness wasn’t embraced, and get frustrated, and rather nasty. I sympathize with those men. Mating/dating can be frustrating… that’s why many of us are reading this article in the first place.

    >> accepting the idea that women are as much sexual beings as men are
    >> One of the sexiest aspects of a modern man is someone who can accept a woman as she is without judgement.

    This… is the best point in the article.

    The pickup guys (PUAs, seducers) advocate that all men should read My Secret Garden, by Nancy Friday. Took me 7 years to finally do it, and it was perfect. Says what this article is saying, very well. Men — don’t become feminists, but *do* read that book. An eye opener.

    >> Every time a man laments that women won’t make the first move, he is lamenting the gender roles that the patriarchal system enforces.

    Here’s where I think this article gets dangerous. Yes, men (especially ones w/ less than perfect social skills), want women to make the first move. For the same reason I want to find 5$ every time I look at the sidewalk – it’s easier that way, easier than doing any work, or improving myself at all. It’s lazy, and lazy isn’t attractive.

    Men — do not wish for women to approach you. That *is* your problem. It won’t happen, and women won’t appreciate your wishing. Boring. Stop doing that. Grow up. Lead.

    Men — approach more women. That, along w/ some of the ideology in this article, will get you laid more. Guaranteed. It *is* hard work. If you love women, it’s so rewarding… above and beyond the sex.

    Women — I would not encourage you be aggressive, especially not on the approach. You’ll end up w/ passive men, and/or put men back on their heels as they watch your “show”… tease them, let me come fwd. It’s hotter that way, for *most* couples.

    >> It isn’t helped any when men themselves are socially resistant to sexually aggressive women

    I disagree here too. Yes, some men want aggressive women. And some women want more passive men. But most, *most*, of us are not like that. I don’t think this is cultural. I think it’s statistically true. And I think, experientially, it feels right. Men, should lead. Women, should “tempt.” Once you’re in bed, be as aggressive as you want!

    David Deida is amazing on these points. Really beautiful work by him. Highly recommend his work.

    >> I’m advocating being a feminist ally because it’ll help you get laid.

    Men — if you’re looking for a pair of shoes, don’t start in the women’s shoe department. You follow me? That makes no sense at all. Work on yourself. Talk to other strong, masculine men, ones w/ morals and track records you respect. Model after them. Work hard. Grow. And talk to a lot of women (but not about “rape culture”).

    If you’re really doing very well, all “caught up” on your personal development… fine. Spend an hour being a “feminist ally.” Otherwise, be a man. A very good one. Focus on that. We all have plenty to do there.

    >> All women should visit those blogs and learn about negging, wingmen , sarging and all their hypotheses about women.
    -iben

    iBen — you’re pointing to 2005 notes on pickup. Pickup, or seduction, or whatever… is as old as people are. Dig deeper and you’ll find more nuance. And theories that will impress you. “Game” is a blessing for men/women both. Game, is where men/women work together, to eliminate celibacy and boredom. : ]

  49. Well said. Great to see your enlightened and educated perspective.

  50. you got this article spot on. I enjoyed the performance of amanda palmer. makes me homesick for good old fashioned entertainment. how often would you see a public performance in the USA where the entertainer sheds her clothes? Never. They would be immediately arrested, probably even tasered in this NAZI country. Every day I spend in the USA I see more and more similarities to the ww2 german atrocities – corrupt law enforcement everywhere beating up innocent people, corrupt government making people work harder, and pay even more taxes… and the people oblige. They have become complacent. Americans need to start dating more foreigners, for their own good health. As your article says, part of why American culture’s so screwed up over sex is that Canada got the French, Australia got the convicts and America got the Puritans. woo-hoo!

    • I am a woman who recently confessed to a man she liked that she had a crush on him. He gave off a lot of signals of interest including taking me to dinners one on one and paying and other things. He called me a “hot blonde” often. His reply was that he was still in love with his ex but we had a fantastic connection and we should remain friends. I said sure and that I was happy to remain friends and understood. Not an hour later he texts me saying he wants to see me at the pool in my bikini. He said I should go there and text him tomorrow as he would like to join. So you see gentleman why women are reluctant to make the first move. We get shot down but then are sexuality toyed with afterwards. It’s cruel and its a huge blow to our self-esteem. There are ways to gently let someone down. Sending mixed signals and then taunting them for their sexuality makes women and men as well reluctant to put themselves out there again.

  51. I am 100 percent against slut shaming. I hear more “beat type guys” say they want to get married, than I hear women say this. I hear more guys slut shame. I know that women want sex and I personally encourage women to openly express their feminine sexuality, but it has not been a secret resulting in more sex because many women do not want to talk openly about sex. I am a masculine man and I’m not judgmental. I am in favor of contraception. I even recently began writing stories about these issues on my free of charge blog http://sexualfreedomfun.blogspot.com/ . I want women to feel sexual pleasure. I know that in our repressive society especially in the USA where most of the people are sex-negative that we have to be discreet and go to a private place. However, in the USA even with understanding all of this it is still not easy to get more sex. Escorts are legal, but extremely expensive in the USA, and the words sex and money cannot be said without the chance of getting arrested. Going to other countries more than once a year is expensive for most of us. Doing say 200 approaches (especially at night) can take about two weeks or so and could possibly result in maybe sex once or twice. So, getting sex in the USA is not easy, but all of this effort to get sex (even for those few of us “real men who understand all this” who are 100 percent in favor of women being free to have sex) is unbelievable.

  52. Hello all, greetings from Rotterdam in Europe, I am a woman and like sex as much a s any other healthy human being. I like womans history too, I read a lot on psychology and I am very interrested in gender polictics. Readings this article makes me sad. A true ally would not even attempt to put these dilemma in a few hundred words. It isn’t that easy. Sorry guys. This article is a bit rubbish.

  53. Veronica says:

    Sorry. I almost agree but… what happens when is all the way around…??? o_O. I want to have sex. I need a sex partner… but my husband well, he probably thinks I’m not worth it. He was going to be a priest. And just by saying we have an intimacy problem is just fare enough to make him putting on a deffensive position. But he collects thousands of lingerie or almost naked beautiful women pics and of course, I’m quite sure he watches porn (I do the laundry if you know what I mean…) So?… Not always is about how we were taught to see women and sex, but also the way men look at it too.

  54. Cool article, but get your facts straight. The so-called “official” guidebook for witch-hunters, the Malleus Maleficarum, was actually condemned by the Catholic Church. Painting religious groups in an unfavorable light by spreading lies (or unintentional mis-truths) about them doesn’t help make your point.

  55. The Unbelievable Secret to Getting More Sex, sounds interesting, but it’s not helping me as woman, can you make one article that is oppostite too?

  56. When you’re that kind of woman that wants a lot of sex, year after year in a relationship, you get to meet men that are like women that don’t want sex. Sex is very important for me, and it makes me unhappy to not have it. And also, when you’re like me, you get to meet men that hate my porn use, even though it was little.

  57. Wow.. I have never been more convinced that we have a society that is obsessed with sex. Its not that important people. There are other, much more fulfilling things, that happen in life. If a person decides to have a one nighter or a quick bang on the street at high noon its their choice. We live in a free society and have the choice to do so.
    But if you feel your not getting enough, I would suggest that there is more going on for you than a biological need. I would suggest seeing a counselor and working on whatever issue is behind this ‘need’. No one has ever died from lack of sex so its doubtful anyone actually ‘needs’ it.

  58. Actually this is nonsense article. “That empowerment has happened, but only top 20% males in looks or status gets laid from it. Why? Cause females have always enough dick around them- so they will choose the hottest. That engagement rule was build for males not females, LOL. That way every man will end up with at least one at the end of a day. Instead now, young females are either in harems of top 20% or are in a line to get in one:-). While that rest 80% either manages long-term relationship or nothing. Its actually a mathematical of males.”

  59. What’s up to every one, since I am actually keen of reading this web site’s post to be updated daily.

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  3. […] A great article about sex, the failings of evolutionary psychology, and what women desire. This one is about enthusiastic consent, which helps me avoid LMR ever being an issue. Both well worth a read, and a good counterpoint to much PUA bollocks. […]

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