Jeff Perera of WRC adds:
“White Ribbon asks you to please print and share this in your men’s bathrooms, store windows, schools and campus/residence spaces!”
Visit WhiteRibbon.ca for the original PDF of this poster and for more information.
Comments on this discussion have been closed.
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Is it white ribbon month again? Has there been any similar campaign made yet asking women to stand up against abuse of men?
Good advice but I’d drop the gendered langauge, these are tips all humans should follow to help stop violence against all people. Violence also begets violence at times, only tackling violence against women will not do much to stop violence as a whole as it flows on in a cycle in some cases so unless you also stop violence against men then what is stopping that continued cycle? It’s in everyone’s best interests to stop violence against all people. Another important fact is to remember a lot of abuse is reciprocal so to end some violence against women, some women also need to not be violent towards their partners. Even a slap is not ok, everyone needs to keep their hands to themselves and that will help avoid some of the violence that goes on.
Spot on, Archy. I believe violence is wrong. Period. What about “6 things you can do to prevent violence?” Instead of making it us vs them, it covers all the bases. Of course, this would require large and powerful special interest groups to give up the bogus concept that men are abusers and women are victims.
Archy I think you’re saying something really important – it would be AWESOME to see more gender-neutral posters like this.
I think when we look at how women suffer violence, it’s mainly at the hands of men, so it’s useful to have men speaking to men – that’s what WRC is all about.
That doesn’t negate the need for MUCH more conversation about how to get women to stop perpetrating violence against men.
Honestly, I don’t even think it is women committing violence against men. It is people committing violence against other people. People need to learn to keep their hands to themselves and realize that violence is not the answer. Genderizing violence just makes people get into a defensive crouch where nothing gets done. There was that one post from a while back where it was completely ungendered, and it was perfect!
The gendered approach isn’t actually working, all it’s doing is fueling myths of DV. It’s painting man vs woman, instead of humans together fighting abuse. I can see the merit in targeting misogynistic violence, but at the same time domestic violence isn’t gendered so I’m surprised at how many campaigns are gendered.
I can see the need for it, but I also see a lack of discussing the extremely important part, that reciprocal violence increases the risk of injury for women. I don’t recall seeing any of these campaigns saying that either, basically the stats show that women are more often starting domestic violence altercations and are getting harmed more often/severely from that. Basically I guess they’re picking fights and the size difference is against them, so if they don’t start the DV then they will actually be safer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/ has some interesting stats on the matter regardign reciprocal violence. Women are starting DV more often than men, and that is a huge problem especially when the violence is reciprocal, so some women are actually helping to cause their own victimization. Of course nothing excuses violence, but it’s important to note that if you start a fight you best be prepared for the violence that follows. The stats on teen DV show pretty much equal levels to each other between genders, so women especially definitely need to be educated to keep their hands to themselves if we want to tackle violence against women instead of JUST talking about the men that abuse them.
We men can tell other men to stop starting the DV of course, but what do you say when she hits him first? Defend yourself? Everyone needs to keep their damn hands to themselves, don’t start fights and you’ll reduce your risk of becoming a victim significantly. None of this is meant to minimize the non-reciprocal violence victims, it’s just simply a huge problem I see that needs to be added on to existing anti-DV measures if we’re really that serious about tackling violence against women.
Not enough focus is put on responsibility of people in relationships committing reciprocal DV, it’s not going to help to treat them ONLY as victims in every single case, as many men n women are actually both victim AND perpetrator. Maybe schools need to do a shitload more educating on how to manage and deal with problems without fists.
Archy, this smacks of victim-shaming.
This is akin to saying, “Men, if you don’t want to get raped, don’t make out with women”
or
“Men, if you don’t want to get raped, don’t go to a gay bar.”
I mean, come on. Of course if a woman is perpetrating violence against a man, she should be arrested and tried for domestic violence. But there are MASSIVE numbers of DV victims whom we have NO reason to believe were the ones instigating violence.
No, this is not victim blaming. What he is pointing out is that men are often the victim, as he is pointing out times in which men are hit first and are reacting. It is not akin at all to saying “if you don’t want to get raped, don’t go in a gay bar”. It’s more akin to saying “If you don’t want to get raped, don’t rape someone else first”.
Actually the whole example you gave in retort is off-base, as violence is often recipriocal. Rape, as far as I know of, never is.
Archy:
Women are starting DV more often than men, and that is a huge problem especially when the violence is reciprocal, so some women are actually helping to cause their own victimization.
Joanna:
Archy, this smacks of victim-shaming.
Think about it like this. When women attack men there is no shortage of effort to try to show that her violence was some act of self defense against said man. Why aren’t men afforded that same consideration?
Of course if a woman is perpetrating violence against a man, she should be arrested and tried for domestic violence.
That’s the problem though. Take a look at Clara Harris and Mary Winkler. Both killed their husbands in cold blood (Harris ran her husband down in a car, Winkler shot hers as he slept) both were able to sell stories about “fighting back against abuse” with almost no questions asked (in Winkler’s case there was literally no evidence that she was abused except her own story, that doesn’t automatically mean she was lying but that’s a low bar for the world to say that she was trying to protect herself from an abuser).
When women perpetrate violence against men the topic of domestic or partner violence is often actively avoided, at least by law enforcement and press.
In short reciprical violence seems to only matter when the man starts and the woman “fights back”. When it’s the other way around reciprical is not even a consideration and he is cast as the sole aggressor. People have no problem with a woman fighting back against a man that abuses her but when a woman abuses a man it seems all they can say is, “Get out of there.” and “A real man doesn’t hit women.” where apparently being a real man means not protecting yourself (I guess we are in an age women are equal to men in all things except the capacity to do bad).
“Where apparently being a real man means not protecting yourself?” [Why the double standard... etc]
Dude. Really? To answer your question: because when I was 15 my mother raised her hand to me after I back talked her once too often, and I deserved a little straightening out. But at 15 all I had to do was look at her and she remembered that even as a relatively underdeveloped teenager I could break her in half faster than anyone could call the cops. Thank *whomever* that I, and most of us, grow up and never act on that impulse.
If you actually are a guy who can’t figure out how to “defend yourself” by simply grabbing her hands and holding them down by her sides: *do a push up.* If you cant’ tell the difference between domestic violence and self defense – you are the problem; be glad that she calls the police and not her father, brother or son.
“If you actually are a guy who can’t figure out how to “defend yourself” by simply grabbing her hands and holding them down by her sides: *do a push up.*”
If you do that, YOU will get arrested and be labeled as a Chris Brown.
Here is what has happens every day:
You say or do something that enrages her, she goes off, wailing on you, punching, kicking, biting – you grab her arms to stop her, she pulls away, twisting her arms to get away from you, gets slightly hurt and slightly bruised.
She then calls the police, shows them her bruises and, for the rest of your life, you have a police record and are a “wife beater.” Then, feminists use your arrest record data to prove that only men abuse women, with rare exceptions.
Bottom line: you CAN’T defend yourself. If she touches you, the only thing you can do is run and never come back. If you don’t want to end up in jail, end the relationship. Immediately.
Move out when she is not there. If you’re not married, never speak to her again. If you’re married, get a divorce and move on.
Yes Dude. Really.
Your story, as harrowing and dramatic as it may be, is nowhere near what I was talking about in terms of protecting yourself.
Now let’s change things up a bit. Let’s say that your mother had a history of actually abusing you rather than your fluffy scenario of being punished for talking back to her too much. If in that situation would it have been self defense if you had broken her in half? I’d like to say yes it would have been but given frankly the only reason it would be called so is because of your parent/child relationship.
Skip a few years, make you 25 and instead of your mother make it your wife. Now there isn’t even an age difference and you’re equals (which by the way is what I was talking about, two equal adults not some one sided older/younger parent/child situation).
But to answer your last paragraph yes I can figure it out and the problem isn’t me. It’s the people that would rather say I must have done something to deserve being hit by her in the first place.
I appreciate you want to resolve the situation as non violently as possible but when the chips are down and violence is the only way out short of death, this gender check needs to be put aside. So no I am not the problem and shame on you for trying to say that I am in your efforts to grand stand.
Danny – if a 100lb woman hits a 180 lb man, let’s say she slaps him, is he justified in punching, choking or killing her?
Because that’s the reality we’re talking about.
If my 5 year old hits me in the middle of a tantrum (still happens, rarely) am I justified in punching him? Should I say, “You shouldn’t have hit me?”
I mean, the weight difference between him and me is actually only 60lbs.
Of course he is a child and a wife is not, she should know better. I’m SIMPLY talking about size and power. Women who are abusers do huge damage, but to say that a dangerous response to a non-threatening situation is WARRANTED is horrifying to me.
Eric, if you think that a guy would be arrested for grabbing his wife’s arm while she beats him up, you haven’t known many female abuser situations.
And back to my point, IF AN ANTI-VIOLENCE GROUP WANTS TO WRITE ABOUT WOMEN BEING ABUSED BY MEN, it takes NOTHING AWAY from men who are abused by women.
NOTHING.
If I want to raise money for Prostate Cancer research, it does NOTHING to harm Breast Cancer research. If the Breast Cancer people want to raise more money and awareness, they get up and make a change and do more fundraising.
You want to talk more about awareness of women abusing men? Then DO SOMETHING about it other than complain and antagonize in a thread dedicated to a poster that is designed to HELP PEOPLE HELP each other.
When I see you three actually working for domestic abuse organizations, even if you wrote stories for GMP about it (I, myself, publish these pieces with some regularity, I even seek them out) then I’d have more respect for this stuff.
Instead, I see a group of men saying that a group of men who want to help men help women is somehow hurting you.
At least WRC is doing something.
The correct analogy would be: if you don’t want to box, don’t get into the ring. As attacking somebody is exercising your agency to inflict harm on somebody else. The defender is not (or should not) be responsible for your safety in this instance.
This is not about victim shaming, but correctly calling out women *exercising* their agency to be horrible people and as a consequence putting themselves in harms way.
There are (and have been for 30 years) credible studies to show that women initiate a hair more unprovoked DV attacks than men.
Studies show the #1 indicator of DV related injury to women is her willingness to instigate attacks.
Look at this video of DV committed by Amber Portwood on the show teen moms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG1tG7WhHXE
Look at the size differential! Imagine the explosive power this guy could unleash on her when he finally snaps?
If it was really about women’s safety, we would teach women to keep their hands to themselves.
But, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about inflating the perception of male perfidy. It’s demonization of men.
First off, great article by the way. The 6 points are bang on.
As for negative comments such as these ones.. which people are entitled to, I ask only this..
Aside from trolling threads like this to bash them, may I ask what you have done concretely in the real word to improve visibility for male victims of violence?
In Ottawa, as one example of many, I have been working with the Ottawa coalition to end violence against women for 4-5 years now. During my support work I often speak with men,or friends of men that share your legitimate concerns about resources for men. Almost every women’s org I have approached about it have been VERY supportive about creating awareness, improving access to services for men, going an environmental scan of services for men etc. The opposition only comes when the idea is presented similar to the way it is presented here…
As someone doing graduate research on gendered language I can tell you it is really important to recognize that most violence of this nature (over 85%) is by men towards women.. even 80% of men who are abused are abused by other men. The language has to stay gendered even if there are exceptions to the rule.
I would suggest we recognize that WRC has a mandate to address violence against women. I myself work with Men for Equality and Non-Violence, we work in solidarity with WRC, as well as womens groups, but very much have aa focus on peer support for men… both men who have been abused and men who have been abusive and want to change etc. Every org has to h ave a mandate that is specific and narrow otherwise no one will fund them.
Have you considered approaching women’s orgs that deal with these issues compassionately about trying to increase visibility for men’s experiences of violence? I have and have been amazed ant the change in conversation here.
You can agree that it is important for this language to stay gendered for this purpose, and also agree that men need more support, it is not an either or problem, you can have both
I love this comment. Each of us has to decide if we are generalists (working for social justice as a whole) or specialists (some working on LGBT, some working on women’s issues, men’s issues, civil rights issues, etc) and realize that because there are structures in place for one type of support doesn’t mean that other’s can’t be built alongside.
That’s intersectionality where specialists can learn to work together and create a more general well being.
I for one would love to see violence against men end in the following ways-cessations of war hostilities, more adequate mental health programs and support for men returning from war or combat with PTSD, better and more human treatment in prisons, more men willing to speak out about abuse either at the hands of men or of women. I support men but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t also support women seeking support against violence as well.
Guys, we also need to think about issues like DV or anything else less as an “either, or” and more of a “both, and”…
We can support BOTH violence against men AND violence against women. They don’t negate each other. We aren’t talking about funding here, if you read the poster it’s about what individual men can do to support the females in their lives. That’s a GOOD THING.
One does not negate the other. That’s a simple, almost childish way to look at it. Let’s ALL support one another without turning it into a competition. If I speak out against violence against men, that in no way takes away from the legitimacy of violence against women.
We need to change our paradigm here… “Both, and”.
Guys, we also need to think about issues like DV or anything else less as an “either, or” and more of a “both, and”…
That will never happen as long as the term “violence against women” exists. When violence is considered wrong, and is no longer glorified, even when the victim is male – then, and only then, will headway be made for female victims. What VAW advocates don’t get is that it’s all connected.
I agree it’s all connected, just like all cancers are connected. But sometimes we specialize in order to get to the more specific roots of the different variations.
That’s all that’s happening here. No one is taking anything away from you.
Also, in support of white ribbon month:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9537467/Sir-Roger-Moore-James-Bond-actor-beaten-up-by-first-two-wives.html
Roger Moore speaking about the abusive relationships he was in, airs on the 14th on BBC America. I’m interested in Pierce Morgan’s take, since he also laughed about Russ Kemp being abused by his wife.
I think this poster is spot on. I agree that violence in all forms needs to stop – physically, verbally, online, everywhere. I strongly agree with Joanna’s point that the overwhelming proportion of violence against women (especially sexual violence) is at the hands of men.
My male privilege entitles me to walk alone late at night without the realistic fear of rape or assault (in the same way my fiancee does). I think this is something that all of us, male/female, can get on board with. That’s just a piece of the larger equation which is making sure that all of us are advocates against violence.
Respect to Jeff Perera for posting this.
“My male privilege entitles me to walk alone late at night without the realistic fear of rape or assault”
I’ll grant you the odds of rape are lower, but I’ve been assaulted in broad daylight often enough that I flat out refuse to be afraid of the dark.
““My male privilege entitles me to walk alone late at night without the realistic fear of rape or assault.”
Apparently are you unfamiliar with violent assault data? You are three times more likely to be a victim of violent assault and murder than a female. Only in feminism could that be called a privilege.
>My male privilege entitles me to walk alone late at night without the realistic fear of rape or assault (in the same way my fiancee does)
Most victims of violent crime are male. This is ESPECIALLY true if you’re focusing specifically on crimes committed by strangers. Men have the “privilege” of feeling unafraid (to the extent that actually do feel that way; not all men share your privilege- the genuine privilege- of thinking of violence as something they have no reason to fear) because violence against them isn’t considered worth worrying about, to the point that women’s fear and discomfort troubles people more than men’s blood and broken bones and dead bodies.
How about we all stop or try to stop any violence against anyone… anytime??
And yes men are statistically more likely to be victims in way more categories than women thats just a fact.. murder and assault being 2 big ones
Ending violence, laudable.
Ending violence against women, laudable but narrow
Ending violence against women caused by men, laudable but needlessly arbitrary
Suggesting that b/c of my gender, I should evaluate my capacity to commit a transgression and for which I bear no risk of becoming a comparable victim, outrageous!