Hanna Brooks Olsen encourages women to finally step up and take some initiative in asking guys out. It’s not that hard, in fact, it’s fun.
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I am blowing exactly no one’s mind by stating that the never-ending hangover of gender norms make hetero dating a little sticky. Who pays?* Who drives? Who is expected to plant the first kiss? But even getting to the point of “on a date” can get hung up in one big, really outdated factor: That women, generally, do not feel comfortable or compelled to make the first move. But they should! Because it works! Also, it’s kind of a nice thing to do.
My boyfriend loves to tell the story of how we met, in part because it is sweet and also because, as a relatively quiet and pretty shy fellow, being asked first (and kissed first) was super-novel. Because unlike women, who are used to attention — a lot of it unwanted and problematic and often really emotionally burdensome and sometimes even dangerous — most men don’t get noticed. Especially quiet guys.
The kind of guys who you see in bars and maybe even think are cute but don’t talk to. And they definitely don’t talk to you. They are not the men who come up and brazenly interrupt your happy hour with a friend with asinine, unwelcome conversation. They are also the men for whom sending the first OK Cupid message is really nerve-wracking and awful.
What happened was this: Two years ago, I was writing for a website and helping with the social aspect, and someone retweeted an article I’d written. I checked out his information and followed him because I don’t know why. Why does anyone follow anyway?
Anyway, he followed me back… and then emailed me. So I guess technically he kind of made the first-ish move beyond Twitter. But it wasn’t to ask me out, it was to ask a question about a job. We had a brief interaction. That was all. Then, for two years, we just quietly followed each other on Twitter. I was in a relationship. He was living in another city but eventually moved back. We were basically strangers.
But then, one day when I was single and still a little raw from a particularly painful breakup, one of his tweets caught my eye. And we started chatting. On Twitter.
“Um…have you ever flirted on Twitter?” I asked my co-worker. I was honestly a little baffled. It was fun and he was funny, and I was doing some online dating so I was used to messaging cutesy little things that are completely unimportant to relative strangers. But, I had to remind myself, this wasn’t that. This was just Twitter, which both he and I use for our jobs because we are internet people. How did I even know he was into it like I was into it?
Because, see, as women we’re conditioned to assume that if a man doesn’t immediately turn into a stumbling mess and/or brandish his phone number demanding a date, he’s probably not into it. Which I have been assured, over and over again by reliable, confirmed male humans, is not the case. Plenty of guys are into it, they just don’t want to invade your space. They don’t want to be the creeps that all of us encounter all the time.
So I screwed my digital courage to the sticking point and messaged him that we should continue the conversation in person. He accepted. And when we met, it turned out, we were unsure, but both hoping it was a date. At the end of the night, fearing an awkward, platonic hug on a street corner, I psyched myself up again and kissed him. It also helped that I had been drinking, but that’s beside the point.
That was months ago.
Now we are dating and we are quite fond of each other. And he has assured me that it never would’ve happened if I hadn’t sent that first message. Because he didn’t want to impose on my life. Because he’s kind of a decent dude like that.
Which isn’t to say that decent dudes, as a rule, don’t ask women out, or that the man making the first move automatically makes him a creep, because of course it doesn’t, and that would be a ludicrous double-standard. But a lot of men are just too shy or afraid of overstepping the boundary of respect to slide you, a female in whom they have already shown interest, that matchbook with a phone number on it.
All of this is to say: Do it! The guy on OKC who also spends his typical Friday night eating grilled cheese while watching Deep Space Nine? He may never message you — but it’s cool because messaging goes both ways! So does real-life conversation! That cute guy who makes your coffee every morning who you have a great rapport with? Stop checking for the Missed Connection you’re sure is coming and ask him if he’d like to meet somewhere other than his place of work.
Might you get rejected? Maybe! Will it kill you? No! If anything, it will bring the genders ever so much closer to understanding each other. And also, you know, get you some. Which is worth it!
*You split it. Just do that thing. This actually should not be a question. You ate some food? Pay for that food.
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Originally appeared at xoJane
More from our partners at xoJane.com:
My Mum Came Out as Gay and My Church Started an Anti-Gay Campaign
Sometimes It Hurts to Be Single
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I would like to go a step farther here, and suggest that women and men consider that the binary relationship model may be becoming obsolete. From an economic standpoint, we have seen the world change from the “single income household” model that was prevalent into the 1970’s, to a “two income household” model which is already showing signs of being insufficient for a family to achieve prosperity if the wage earners don’t both have college degrees. The next logical step is toward three or four income households – but this requires a redefinition of the societal concept of “family”. There… Read more »
Seconded! My hunny and I met because I approached him cold turkey at a bar. He was new to town and hadn’t gone out but once or twice before, and hasn’t gone out much since due to his introverted nature. We talked for hours that night and he asked if he could take me out on a date before we parted ways; not “let’s hang out” but “I want to take you out for dinner at whatever restaurant you like”. He’s such a perfect fusion of chivalry and feminism. We’ve been practically joined at the hip ever since. I’m sure… Read more »
Great article. I wrote about this from a man’s perspective for TGMP some time ago. Glad to see the other side chime in, too!
https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/brand-go-ahead-ladies-ask-him-out/
Wow. Between the original article and some of the very pointed comments, I am glad the dating years are a distant memory. You all make this sound so complicated. Doesn’t it all start with a little courtesy?
It’s never really occurred to me to wait to be asked out, but then again, I love “the chase.” I made the first moves with my boyfriend, though he asked me out.
I also give hints. Ive never asked them out.
Im a firm believer that most guys will go after a woman if she is what he wants.
Ive had mean 50+ years old come at my hard. Meanwhile very atrractive mu h younger guy acts shy. I dont quite understand. I just assume he is either not interested that much or is taken. I just move on.
I think that if you feel it, and you think the feeling is mutual, you should go for it, regardless of whether you’re a man or a woman. I have both expressed my interest in men first and received interest from men. I’ve also been the first to say “I love you.” It really doesn’t matter who does what first: what matters is that you both have the same level of interest. To be fair though, while a lot of women I know do expect the guy to ask them out, I know quite a few men who prefer to… Read more »
I have been the one to ask out every single one of my partners, both male and female. I have, quite literally, never been asked out. That said, I’ve been with my current partner for almost 7 years, and almost all of my relationships lasted at least 2 years. I only ever had one guy turn me down when I asked. Just one.
FWIW, every guy I’ve ever asked out has said that they really appreciated my doing so, as having to be the one to always make the first move can get tiresome.
Great story Hanna… I think what societal pressure sometimes forgets is that guys are sensitive, have been on the receiving end of hurt before and perhaps are also a little shy in putting themselves in the firing line at times!
Often the fear of rejection on any level can be the biggest obstacle to really engaging in that initial conversation. Balancing fear against desires and wants is a tough cookie to crack, regardless of whom you are. Congrats on your relationship!
“Might you get rejected? Maybe! Will it kill you? No!”
You pretty much pointed the answer to that point earlier in the article: women are used to think that if a man’s brain does not shrink to the size of a peanut the moment he sees a woman, he does not want her. We’re constantly told that men would not refuse sex with anyone, anytime which beans that to be rejected, you must be a particularly ugly woman. That is what is devastating.
Time to change our thought patterns, cause it’s a pain in the ass.
I don’t like the assumption that all women are just geting asked and approached all the time and now it’s *our* turn to put in the hard work. A) Who says that just beause a woman doesn’t ask a man out she isn’t putting in the hard work to communicate with him? B) If men want women to ask them out then men need to start learning the signals that would enable a woman to feel like she could approach him. Like smiling at her or something. C) Asking men out will work for some women. But it will not… Read more »
I do not see every man who approach me as a “jerk” Some men like to be the one initiating and that doesn’t make them players. My smile and glanced has worked so far. There is the simple hello how are you I say to anyone and there is the smile that tells a guy “I like you come talk to me ;)” Is simple flirting. I am not a shy person, I am very sociable, but I do not ask men out. Maybe I haven’t need to do so. Nothing to do with gender role views on my part.… Read more »
No-one’s telling women that they *should* ask men out. It’s an option. Some women who think it’s a pretty cool idea may not ‘need’ to either: the smile and glance has worked very well for me in the past but I’ve always avoided even striking up a conversation in case I seem keen. Even when I am keen. Ridiculous. Some of us (me) have been conditioned to be so passive and aloof that we’re told even smiling and glancing is ‘too keen’. Personally I’m bored. I’m so bored of that. For me that has everything to do with gender roles.… Read more »
Ps I’m British. ‘Dating’ is a newer concept for us than in the US. When I’ve spent time in NYC I’ve noticed that guys approach SO much more than here. So maybe an interested American guy will *definitely* ask a girl out, unlike here where both parties bumble and wonder and hesitate until they go out for drinks together (maybe in a group) and something ‘happens’. Asking on a ‘date’ here still (to me anyway) feels a little formalised and uncomfortable, but it is definitely changing. I’m 33. I did not grow up ‘dating’. Things just happened!
Hi Sonya You write about American dates: ✺”feels a little formalised and uncomfortable”✺ I don’t think Europeeans shall adopt the American dating system. When men ask me for formal dates the American way,I feel uncomfortable. But I see the advantages of ” dating”. I will not ask a man out for a date the American way. Instead we need to improve on our Europeean ways to meet and socialize. Women can initiate and be active in so many ways,but please don’t ask us all to become Americans. In Europe sometimes we simply fall into each others beds, and that is… Read more »
Wait, aren’t you the same person who wrote above It is my personality I am more of a wallflower. But I guess for more aggressive women it may work. It would be nice if people understand that, that some women do not approach men because they’re simply shy or laid back and not because they are expecting a guy to do it as a rule. It is definitely not my case… So when you say you “do not ask men out” and it has “nothing to do with gender role views on my part” and that you are “not a… Read more »
I don’t know if it is because I am “attractive”, or I am just open/Available… when I say available I mean if a nice guy start a conversation I am open nice and welcoming. I am not ‘bubbly” or the life of the party, I usually prefer one to one conversation. I think what men “need” is to know that we women are welcoming them to talk to us. I guess if I get that vibe from a man, then I would be more eager to initiate, but men seem to be too much into themselves 😉 well people in… Read more »
I have asked a fellow out and am definitely looking forward to it (even tho I am as nervous as a cat in a room with two toddlers.) It is not an easy thing to do, but ultimately my decision came down to, “Do you want this?” and my answer to myself, was, “Yes.” I chickened out twice on the way over to where he sits but finally worked up the courage to do. I’ve asked advice from friends and was specifically told, “Don’t be the guy! Don’t be the one who asks questions and puts it on the line.… Read more »
Nice article. I especially liked the author’s note at the bottom, I nearly laughed down the line on a phone conference 🙂
Ladies: Asking a man on a date makes you very attractive. Extremely attractive. This is also a great gift, and it’s one of the nicest things you can ever do for a man. If we’re two people just looking at each other and nobody makes a move, all I know is what you look like on the outside. Asking a man out on a date lets us know about who you are inside. Like most men, I am much more interested in somebody’s personality and thoughts then I am in their superficial looks. Looks are nice, but they only get… Read more »
Before I got married I dated a lot of women, all very. Funny thing is out of the women that were serious enough for me to consider them a “girlfriend” all of them made the “first move.” I love it when a woman is bold enough to make a move.
I really think it depends on the age group you’re in. My 3 Daughters (all in their 30’s) although they’re all in good , stable relationships, all complain about their single friends who can’t seem to get a date with ‘Mr. Right’. My son who just turned 22, well let’s just say that the women in his age group have NO trouble making the first move. He had quite a few F.W.B’s over the years and now that he’s in the Army and deployed in Afghanistan, well, if I read his FB messages right, so long as he makes it… Read more »
I often wonder about younger women and their approach and feelings to the FWB sistuations, sex in general and relationships. I wonder if they really are engaged in casual sex easily for the heck and fun of it or if they are still using sex as a means to get closer to the young man of their heart’s desire. I’d guess we’d have to have personal conversations with the young ladies to really know where their head is at. I know when I was younger there was a time I tried to act like how I thought everyone else was… Read more »
“and I wonder if these girls, when they get into their 30’s, will also be wondering where’Mr. Right’ is.” Erin, that’s brilliant! I never saw that connection. I just assumed dating rules had changed dramatically in the 10 or so years between my son and daughters. Perhaps there is a connection.
While dating has changed, I doubt the desire to have true intimacy and a committed romantic relationship for most women has that much vastly changed. how women approach sex has also changed, but again, the desire for love and partnership among women and young girls a like runs pretty deep. Even for those that may protray a different facade on the outside or those that are having casual sex.
As a “young woman” who has a few fwb “relationships” I can say that personally they were great for me at the time. These existed with men I was attracted to who were genuinely good people but I just didn’t feel were right for me in the long term (different world views, goals, I wasn’t ready for a relationship). At no point did I want more from them, other than transparency wrt infections. To me, your comment came off as kind of condescending. Is it that hard to believe that some women are only interested in sex and companionship (as… Read more »
That first sentence should say ‘has had.’ I’m currently in a long term, loving relationship.
I had many lady friends in college. But we were just friends. It’s been years since we graduated, but when I meet lady with whom I was friends with in college (and high school), a number of them admitted that they were attracted to me back in college. Several of them said they wished I asked them out. But I have never been asked out by a woman– not once. For years and years I assumed this was because I was too skinny, too socially awkward, ugly and that women weren’t attracted to me. I’m shy, and asking a woman… Read more »
You can’t really do that without querying the value judgements made on “confidence”. If “confidence” is linked to “makes a stunningly brilliant first move” then I don’t see how that dynamic is to be undermined. Or maybe confidence means different things to different genders.
You know what is confident? Flouting those norms. So girls, get approaching.
I liked this article. One lady out there who gets it.
> I feel that I missed out And I guess one thing I keep regretting is being such a nice guy. Maybe I should have been one of those jerk described in the article above. Because if the goal is to get laid more often, apparently being a jerk works. Because those jerks seem to get laid a bunch more then I do. I know this is an extremely superficial way to look at the problem, and it’s not one that I really subscribe to in real life; but this is still the source of a lot of my self… Read more »
Honestly, I feel like it has less to do with being a jerk specifically and more to do with not being overly concerned with a woman’s feelings specifically. What I mean is, if you are very concerned about making a woman uncomfortable — as I am — you are going to avoid imposing on her as much as possible. You’re going to think, “Oh, she smiled at me, but I am not sure if she wants me to come say hello, so I will err on the side of caution and avoid intruding.” A jerk on the other hand won’t… Read more »
Giggs, any potential romance you missed out on was your own fault. There was probably just as many reasons why these women didn’t ask you out. Fear of rejection, struggling with their own body issues, the social ramifications of not behaving how a woman is suppose to behave. I know that those are all the reasons I don’t ask out men. It’s not like every woman out there is gorgeous or feels it. We sometimes think we are ugly, too fat, too short, too tall..too anything or not enough. Just like you. It’s not really fair to use women’s lib… Read more »
This!! I am overweight, and I feel that until I’ve lost 20kg I’ve got no business even making a move on a guy. I already have fragile confidence as it is (even though I fake it alot), so having a guy turn me down, I know I’m just going to internalise that as not being good enough.
You know what’s funny? The same thing happened to me, except I’m a woman and it was the guys who all liked me but never asked me out. The bottom line: go for it if you feel it, no matter what sex you are.
This story is the complete opposite of what I’ve been told by friends and reading about on relationship columns lately and I love it! This story assured me that I was right–it is okay to ask a man out and not all men will think of you as “easy” because you, the self-assured woman (who is scared to death of rejection) asked him because he probably would have been content with flirting forever. Still, I personally will assess the situation on a case by case basis. There are some men out there that are really put off by a woman… Read more »
Who wants to be with a man who is offended by being asked out? It’s probably best to filter those guys out early in the process – who knows what else he’ll be put off by, such as a woman making more money than he does, or perhaps having her own thoughts and opinions.
Not something I would do, because I am not the kind of woman who likes to impose herself. I will usually glance and smile as an invitation that it is ok to approach me. I do not go beyond that, for the same reasons the men mentioned in this article do not initiate; It is my personality I am more of a wallflower. But I guess for more aggressive women it may work. It would be nice if people understand that, that some women do not approach men because they’re simply shy or laid back and not because they are… Read more »
> I will usually glance and smile as an invitation that it is ok to approach me. (I’m not criticizing you. Just making a comment. Thank you very much for your honest post.) I’m also quite shy and it’s hard for me to interpret other people’s body language, It took me over 20 years to understand that a “glance and smile” means anything other then a friendly glance and a smile. People glance and smile all the time… how are men supposed to separate the romantic “glance and smile as an invitation” verses the everyday, run-of-the-mill glance and smile? Interpreting… Read more »
I hear you Giggs.
If you add face blindness into the mix, when you can’t even tell if the girl who smiled at you earlier is the same one standing in front of you now, it adds a whole level of complexity to trying to find a date. I think back now to a whole bunch of women I thought I had never met who seemed really miffed at me when I was talking to them. I guess women don’t like to be forgotton 🙂 (Or approached twice)
“Now I’m 40, my friends say I’m good looking, I’m fit and thin, I have flowing brown hair and I’m much more confident now then when I was younger. I get a ton of these glances and a smile. But guess what ladies, now I’m married. So keep right on glancing, just don’t expect a response.” Giggs. I’m glad your married. But I’m not so glad at your comments that seem a little bit gleefully vindictive. like “ha, ha, I’m hot and confident now and taken ladies. So if you smile at me now, it’s your lose.” Got to say,… Read more »
Luzy, I feel shy too sometimes…but surely there’s a whole spectrum between not wanting to impose and being ‘aggressive’? I wouldn’t use that word to describe a man who approached me 🙂 Giggs – making eyes can work. Its pretty easy to make a glance blatantly obvious. Last time I did it a guy followed me down the street to get my number (but um yeah that’s happened precisely once!). If a guy doesn’t respond to my come-on eyes he’s perhaps shy, doesn’t find me attractive or is already taken. C’est la vie 🙂 I don’t even think this really… Read more »
> Its pretty easy to make a glance blatantly obvious.
I’m not so sure. Sometimes a woman will give me an extended stare (This happened to be recently at a coffee shop), and she actually looks more like a deer caught in the headlights. I feel like I shouldn’t return the look because I would be threatening her. I feel guilty.
That’s really sad. Don’t feel guilty for absolutely nothing. The only things women hate (well I hate) is guys who bounce over to me and my friend going ‘HEY LADIES, HAVING A GOOD NIGHT?’ without even waiting for a break in our conversation, then proceeding to talk AT us. We hate being clicked at in the street (the noise people use to call dogs). We hate overhearing ‘Look at that’ (‘that’ being ‘me’ apparently. I’m a ‘that’. I’m an ‘it’). Those guys take one look and don’t respect me. Sometimes it makes me feel like shit because I wonder sometimes… Read more »
Thank you very much.
I think that if the world treated women with more respect, then many of the concerns that I stated in my previous posts would resolve on their own. I have this ridiculous belief that women should be treated as if they actually matter. Those clicking men ruin things for us all.
I’m glad you’re in a happy place for being a shy lady, but what about shy guys? Society doesn’t allow us the luxury of sitting back and allowing someone to approach us due to how gender dynamics have traditionally worked for the past umpteen centuries. I’m not attacking your position so much as asking you to consider that your capacity to effectively do nothing and still be subject to romantic overtures is (while I’m certain sometimes unwanted and bothersome) a privilege that oftentimes goes unrecognized. Men are generally expected to be constantly putting ourselves out with rejection as a distinctive… Read more »
Nice nice nice. Love this 🙂 I’ve never really initiated all that much with men, yet this exact thought has been brewing in my head lately. All the men I’ve met in the last year or so – without exception – have said that they wish women would make the first move more often. I think it could also be good for women, to shake us out of that helpless ‘waiting and hoping’ mentality, which, let’s face it, is boring. Sure, he might say no….but if we considered ourselves a good, decent, worthy, attractive woman beforehand we’d still be the… Read more »
Hi Hanna and Luke, I had no idea when I asked Luke out that he was faceblind (I thought he was being aloof with me) or that he had endured bullying at school. I had never asked a guy out before and had no idea how to but I just did, with witnesses (Yikes). I think my coy and shy nature won him over :). I am so glad I did make that first move. He was a great first boyfriend. I felt as though he had more respect for me than my previous male friends and it also gave… Read more »
Thanks Kathy
It’s a shame life took us down different paths, still I wouldn’t swap my kids for anything.
Talk soon
This was a moving and really beautiful set of comments. Hugs to you both!
Thank you Joanna,
I do think we were very fortunate to have been in the same place at the same time.
Luke,
No I wouldn’t change a thing either. You got to travel and have your kids and I have 2 wonderful ones also. So next time you are in town, do you want to continue this discussion in person?
Lol – I think we are still friends on Facebook, I will start up an fb chat.
Will be back in town with my kids to see my folks and catch up with some old friends at Christmas for two weeks.
And that’s a yes to this discussion continuation, I’m a single dad these days so I don’t have to worry about a partner getting jealous if we talk or catch up.
Hi Hanna My very first girlfriend asked me out when I was 18. I am faceblind (but didn’t know it back then) and had met her several times before (but didn’t remember her) and I had just finished a hellish school life and was recovering my shattered self image from more than 10 years of being bullied. It was the sweetest thing anyone had ever done for me back then and gave me the chance to start anew. She made me the person I am today. I say girls – go for it. Nothing says to a guy that they… Read more »