Just as we must never excuse the misogyny of intimate partner abuse by saying that men are violent by nature, we must be careful never to excuse other forms of sexism by saying that men are slaves to sexual desire.
I love my friend Nathan, but we disagree about pretty much everything. Whether about economics or politics, religion or vegetarianism, we argue.
It’s a part of our friendship, and it’s (almost) always respectful and ends with a hug. I love that we can disagree so much and still laugh and enjoy one another’s company.
But sometimes it gets pretty heated, like when we talk about the nature of men and women.
We fundamentally disagree about the role of biology versus socialization, nature versus nurture, in influencing the ways that men and women tend to act.
In one of the chapters from his “blogsperience,” Confessions of a Diarrhetic: Lessons of Love, Life, and the Ocean, he puts it this way:
“Women are better at commitment than men. This is because each of the sexes has a different job when it comes to the genetic imperative. Men are wired to spread their seed. We want to grow as strong and wealthy as possible so that we can have a large harem and the tribe will survive . . . So [today] men cheat. I’m not excusing it; I’m explaining it. We want to spread our seed as often as we can. This is one of the many reasons men are so drawn to pornography, you can have a new girl every time you fire up your computer!” (Even if you disagree with him, consider giving Nathan’s “blogspierence” a read or listen. It’s definitely a captivating story).
He goes on to explain that this is why straight men and straight women can never truly be friends.
The guy is always trying to sleep with the girl while the girl thinks it’s just a friendship. And he’s not the only dude to make this argument:
And you know what? These guys are absolutely right.
So long as we continue to live by and construct our relationships around oppressive, patriarchal understandings of sex and gender, straight men and straight women cannot be friends, and for that matter, gay men can’t be friends with any other men.
If men believe that they have no control over their “biological imperative” to “spread their seed,” then every friendship with a potential “mate” will be defined by a constant game where the man is endlessly jockeying for position to sleep with his “friend.”
The problem with this line of thinking, though, is that it presumes that men are not, in fact, human.
After all, whether you believe it’s divine endowment or an evolutionary outcome, pretty much every human being is capable of rational thought and will power.
This separates us from the “natural world” because, in essence, we have the ability to rationalize our way beyond simple biological urges and will ourselves to act differently.
True, there are probably lots of ways that gender norms are influenced by our hormone levels or our evolutionary biology.
But to say that we are simply slaves to these fundamental drives is to say that our power of cognition is no more powerful than, say, that of my friend’s dog who humps everything.
I find this line whole “men are slaves to their sexual desire” bit to be an insulting trope. And the men who are reading this should too!
After all, if we as straight men are incapable of being true, genuine friends with women, it simply reinforces some pathetic stereotypes about men.
Sexual Attraction Is Nuanced
I don’t know about you, but as a straight man, I am not attracted to every single female-identified person that I meet.
Take the story of one of my closest friends, Sheila, for instance. I met Sheila through OKCupid a few years ago. I reached out to her on the site because she’s gorgeous and because we have a lot in common.
But from the moment we met, there was no chemistry. I, plainly, wasn’t attracted to her.
After our second date, I had to tell her. “I really like you! I just don’t think I’m feeling the kind of chemistry I want to feel with a romantic partner.”
Her reaction? “Oh thank god! I love hanging out with you, but I’m just not feeling it either!” Now, almost three years later, we’re best friends!
Similarly, it’s insultingly heterosexist (and pompous) for straight men to say that they don’t want to share a locker room with gay men because they don’t want gay men getting turned on by their naked bodies.
I’m sorry, you arrogant a**hole, but what makes you think he’d be attracted to you?
Gay men don’t simply divide the world into “those I can f*ck” and women. Gay men are friends with other gay men, and gay men have monogamous relationships.
Just as you are not attracted to every single woman that you meet, gay men are not attracted to every single man.
If we believe that our sexual attraction is nuanced and changing, then to say that we are slaves to this attraction is absurd.
Men Are More Than Our Sexual Appetites
I am not simply defined by my erections. I am a complex person with complex relationships.
As a result, while I am indeed attracted to some of my female friends, that does not mean that I am simply waiting for a moment to jump their bones.
One of the many ways that the patriarchy hurts both women and men is to typecast us into tiny boxes that restrict our fully realized expression as people.
If we say that “men think with their head, just not the one on their shoulders,” we are not only confining men and their motivations to a tiny box, but we are reinforcing to men that it is, in fact, okay to allow themselves to be led solely by their sex drive.
I, for one, want to be known as a man who has a robust sex drive but who also is capable to existing outside of that sex drive.
I can be attracted to a number of people yet be with but one person if that’s what I so choose.
I can be friends with someone I am wildly attracted to if I choose to see that person as a fully-realized human being rather than a simple object of my sexual desire.
Stop Letting Men Off The Hook!
So why do we, as men, believe and play into these basest stereotypes about our nature?
In short, it lets us off the hook when we act like a**holes. If we lie or cheat or sleep with our girlfriend’s best friend, it’s a lot easier to make the argument that such actions are in our nature than to take responsibility for our misdeeds.
If we ever hope to realize a more positive masculinity, though, we must leave behind these insulting generalizations about the nature of men.
Just as we must never excuse the misogyny of intimate partner abuse by saying that men are violent by nature, we must be careful never to excuse other forms of sexism by saying that men are slaves to sexual desire.
After all, it is not a far leap from “men want to spread their seed, so they cheat” to “men want to spread their seed, so they rape.”
In short, men are human beings. We have will, agency, and responsibility for our actions.
It’s time we hold men to the high standard that our cognition deserves.
Originally appeared at Everyday Feminism
Jamie Utt is a Contributing Writer for Everyday Feminism and a diversity and inclusion consultant and sexual violence prevention educator based in Minneapolis, MN. He lives with his loving partner and his funtastic dog, Chloe. He blogs weekly at Change From Within. Learn more about his work atwww.JamieUtt.com. Follow him on Twitter @utt_jamie.
Photo: Flickr/andronicusmax
Robin West: The Harms of Consensual Sex (Seems to bear on the discussion – I wrote this tonight for another project) I found much to criticize in this article, usually in terms of what I consider to be its assumptions. I’ve no objections to starting with an assessment of the possible harms done to women, but the fact that heterosexual relationships are immediately problematized is extremely suspicious and points to an essentialism similar to that of the radical feminism she criticizes at the end of the article. Everyone who has worked in human services knows that lesbians can also take… Read more »
Ohh so we are supposed to lie to ourselves and say they aren’t a slave to their sex drives.
What an excellently-worded piece:)
The video was great. It just goes to show that denial aint just a river.
I think there are many more points to be considered on this topic. For example, the way the male sex drive is always assumed – that there must be something wrong with a man who doesn’t have a ravenous sexual appetite all the time. Or that a mans partner may be insulted or insecure if he doesn’t want to have sex – because, surely since men always want sex, there must be a problem with the relationship or a problem with her. Another point is that men are often mistreated as a result of the “men are always thinking with… Read more »
Only if you let them. Here’s the deal: I see all sorts of scrambling for victim-hood by everyone–men and women alike–as though it’s a thing to strive for. Don’t tolerate any woman in your life who manipulates you or makes you feel in any way less than a fully formed, masculine–or not, or wherever you feel comfortable on the masculinity spectrum–human being for the sake of sex. Not for 15 minutes, not for one week, not for one year, never. Walk away. There will be others. And the better you become at walking away, the more sexually attractive you’ll become.… Read more »
So men who are mistreated are partly responsible because they tolerate it? Would you say the same of women who are mistreated or emotionally abused or manipulated?
Actually, I would. Any dance of the sort you point to requires two people.
Ah. Unabashed victim blaming. Consistent, at least.
No, it’s always the man’s fault.
Hmm, lets see
“Battered Woman Syndrome” came about because women were being convicted of killing their husbands , and it is an excuse
Right now the media darling Jodi Arias who stabbed her boyfriend 17 times and shot him in the head is using the abuse excuse. And will more than likely get off with it, like Mary Winkler did because she said her husband made her wear sexy undergarments.
Nope, women never uses excuses to get away with bad behaviour. BTW, I highly doubt any man could use these excuse to get away with murder.
very good point
Saying “Men Are Slaves to Their Sex Drive” in not insulting to me. It’s more or less true. Why should I be insulted by hearing the TRUTH? I have been slave to my sex drive same way I am slave to my appetite for food. I want badly to have my sexual and eatind needs fullfilled. Of course I can resist both urges somewhat, but why bother? Sex/masturbation is fun and eating is fun. I act according the sterotype, because that who I am and there is no need to act otherwise. There is not much benefits acting against stereotype.… Read more »
Good point Henry. The use of the term “slave” is intentional and designed to negate things that make us happy and content. It’s moral posturing.
When hungry, some describe the sensation as: “I could kill for some poutine!”
It’s rather pointless to use figures of speech to moralize – let’s resist the temptation to theorize around figures of speech. They are shortcuts not all encompassing constitutions.
The devil made me do it!
Good point. And, if it’s really slavery to one’s sex drive, then the moralism really puts the man into a no-win situation. In that case, what exactly is the solution? To become a free, sovereign individual a man would need to….what….leave his libido behind? Get castrated?
If it’s slavery to the sex drive, then I’d hate to see what it means to break your chains….
An individual man would need to stop thinking with his (fill in with choice of terminology for male genitalia).. Am I the only man here who’s ever been told this? It’s great advice.
I’m glad someone’s said it! I find it much more insulting to have my sex drive and sexual needs blown off as insignificant. Compared to the “deeper” joys of emotional connection, authenticity, or some such shit, I suppose.
Maybe that’s just the bitter musing of a married man who’s wife doesn’t want to acknowledge that sex is really important to some people, including the one that she married. Am I a slave to my sex drive? Will it be biology that makes me cheat? No, but it’s as simple as water running down hill.
I’d say boys are slaves to their sex drives. To be a man means to be able to say no when no is the right thing to say. It took me most of thirty years to reach that point.
I think the issue is less about making generalizations and more about using generalizations to justify one’s behaviors. I rarely hear women justify their behavior by saying things like, “I can’t help it – we women are just illogical and irrational.” I do, however, often hear men say something to the effect of, “It’s just how men are – we need lots of sex/variety in women/are non-committal/etc. In my experience in coaching/counseling men, and in my personal life, I find that men are much more likely than women to justify their behaviors, make excuses, and not take accountability. Why do… Read more »
Or is it a matter that due to not having power they have internalized those stereotypes and messages to the point that they don’t think very highly of themselves?
Yes, I think that’s true as well. It’s amazing how much a sense of powerlessness (whether it’s real or imagined) can impact someone.
(whether it’s real or imagined) Yes this is a key point. The going wisdom on this right now, in the realm of gender, is that for women the powerlessness is real but for men it’s imagined. For some reason a guy that’s been raised from a boy to believe that he is nothing but his sex drive (or at least his sex drive is a defining part of his being) is fully capable of knowing the difference and is just looking for excuses while a woman that was raised from a girl to believe in the gendered expectations heaped upon… Read more »
I rarely hear women justify their behavior by saying things like, “I can’t help it – we women are just illogical and irrational.”
True, but one doesn’t have to look far to find women who perversely use the sexist nature of this claim as a free pass for emotional immaturity. If anyone calls them out on their histrionics, one gets something like the response, ‘Are you accusing me of being emotional?! You sexist!’
So, yes, I think that women also use these stereotypes to excuse behaviour, albeit it in a rather perverse and peculiar manner.
In my experience, I see women have that reaction when their behavior is challenged within the context of a generalization or stereotype (“you’re being emotional like a typical woman”), not for the behavior in and of itself (“why are you reacting that way – I don’t understand why you’re so upset about such and such”). In such cases, the accusation is from a sexist perspective, hence that kind of reaction. Not to say that women don’t also excuse their behaviors at times, but I think in many cases men (or anyone who hold a position of privilege in a given… Read more »
I also want to add that often such generalized accusations are not directly stated, but implied or assumed. As such, they can be subtle and thus easily overlooked.
“In my experience, I see women have that reaction when their behavior is challenged within the context of a generalization or stereotype (“you’re being emotional like a typical woman”), not for the behavior in and of itself (“why are you reacting that way – I don’t understand why you’re so upset about such and such”). In such cases, the accusation is from a sexist perspective, hence that kind of reaction.”
Thank you. This is it exactly.
Another good example is PMS. No woman likes to have it pointed out to her that she is displaying symptoms of PMS, especially by a man. What comes out as an observation is perceived as an accusation. It’s inherently gendered, and thus can trigger a gendered response.
Your experience must be very limited David.
Can you point to something outside of your experience that provides evidence that human rationalizations are gender and/or privilege based?
Obviously, not all rationalizations are gender and/or privilege based, and I wasn’t implying that at all. Rationalizations such as, “S/he made me do it,” “I didn’t think it would hurt anyone,” or “I didn’t know” have nothing to do with gender or privilege.
What I mean is that, if someone alludes to gender as part of their rationalization (whether it’s overtly stated or just implied), then it becomes (at least partly) about gender. The same goes for justification associated with one’s privilege. As I wrote earlier, the same could be true for race, ethnicity, age, sexual orientation, etc.
“I rarely hear women justify their behavior by saying things like, “I can’t help it – we women are just illogical and irrational.”” Come visit me, I hear that shit. Periods are used as an excuse to act like a bitch too. Both genders use stereotypes to hide behind n not take responsibility. “In my experience in coaching/counseling men, and in my personal life, I find that men are much more likely than women to justify their behaviors, make excuses, and not take accountability.” Do you counsel women? Maybe you’re in a biased position if you only hear the troubles… Read more »
I’m not saying that women also don’t use justifications for their behaviors or say that women can’t be abusive as well – believe me, I’ve been on the receiving end of women’s abuse, both physically and emotionally, as are men with whom I work. All I’m saying is that there is a difference between linking the behavior/justification to gender as opposed to addressing the behavior in and of itself (or using some other non-gender excuse to justify the behavior). Yes, I do counsel both men and women, and I find that men tend to justify more than women based on… Read more »
Really? Periods are used as an excuse to act like a bitch? Like, a woman acts bitchy, is called out on it, and says ‘It’s OK, I’m on my period?” In my experience as a woman having a period, I am more likely to *apologize* if my hormonally imbalanced state causes me to lash out in uncharacteristic ways. As in, “I’m sorry I snapped at you yesterday, It’s my time of month and I’m a little on edge.” Not “Yeah, I was rude to you, so what? I can’t help it, I’m on the rag.” Acknowledging that the cause behind… Read more »
“Really? Periods are used as an excuse to act like a bitch? Like, a woman acts bitchy, is called out on it, and says ‘It’s OK, I’m on my period?””
More along the lines of “I’m on my period, fuckoff” and using it as an excuse to act like a bitch.
Yes, I’ve heard women use that exact excuse.
I’m not sure, though, why you lean toward believing that women don’t *really* believe their excuses, but men do.
“I’m not sure, though, why you lean toward believing that women don’t *really* believe their excuses, but men do.”
because shes a woman right??
You’re comparing a straw man to a real woman. They’re saying the same sort of thing and you’re deciding who means what by it? “That said, I’ve heard women use their periods as excuses to do things they normally wouldn’t, like skip a workout or binge on sweets, and I’ve been guilty myself. But I think in most cases the women making these excuses don’t actually believe their period made them do it. Whereas when a man says “I can’t help that I cheated, I’m a guy and we’re not wired for monogamy” or something like that, I get more… Read more »
So why do we, as men, believe and play into these basest stereotypes about our nature? Because from the beginning we are lead to believe that such stereotypes are what men need to engage in order to be considered “real men” and is enforced with the knowing that should we not act in those ways will have our manhood taken from us. In short, it lets us off the hook when we act like a**holes. If we lie or cheat or sleep with our girlfriend’s best friend, it’s a lot easier to make the argument that such actions are in… Read more »
Great article. I do find it insulting that so many men use these excuses. We are not animals; we need to take responsibility for our behaviour. If a man cheats or acts in an inappropriate way sexually, it is his choice to do so, just as it is a woman’s choice if she cheats or does something inappropriate, not something “out of control”. There are some things we can’t always control, like erections, but we can choose what to do with that erection, just as a woman (or man) might not be able to stop themself from crying under certain… Read more »
I don’t identify with the stereotypes because I think that the bast way to go is to watch for clues that the woman wants an approach. Yes, I have been interested quite a lot in watching for these clues, and have not always been monogamous. Don’t move without them. Some women do change their mind and back away at a certain point, and that’s okay, if sometimes a little painful. Or the flirting may have been enough for both of you. That can be very okay too. If you find someone who is emmitting come-hither cues and denying it, keep… Read more »
There’s something suspicious to me about the arguments that reduce everything down to evolutionary biology, because if these theories were completely accurate they would be completely unnecessary. Really, if men were simply “programmed” by nature to be a certain way, there would be no need to tell men constantly what their “natural” roles are. They would all just do it without having to be reminded of it. There would be no threats of social consequence for acting any other way, because every man really would act that way. If something really was genetically determined, there’d be no need to reinforce… Read more »
Well said, wellokaythen! Love it.
I think we’re foolish not to take the evolutionary biology into account, though.
You’re right. I didn’t mean to imply that there’s nothing useful in evo bio perspectives, especially if they really are professionally done and not the pop science versions. Mostly I’m annoyed by the misuse of these theories particularly the people who think of natural selection as part of some kind of “plan” or some sort of “programming,” as if there was the invisible hand of Nature or God or some other intelligent driving force at work. This is really an illusion. If anything the universe seems to be hostile to life, and extinction is the rule, not the exception. If… Read more »
It’d be absolutely foolish to get back in the saddle after having a baby for a woman, she has finite breast milk and has to raise that child to a certain level. I heard on a doco that human brains are so big n developed that human babies are born far less mature than other animals, that babies are in a much much more vulnerable state than others not to mention for a much longer time. My kitten was self-sufficient to a good degree at 6 weeks (it was a walk in stray), could grab food, goto toilet, find warmth… Read more »
Yes, yes! I get so annoyed when people confused evolution with “purpose.”. As in, “evolution wants me to spread my genes. Therefore I must have sex with as many nubile young females as I can before I die.”
Evolution doesn’t “want” anything from you. Evolution is simply a description of a process. Evolution has no purpose. Evolution is not God. Evolution will not send you to hell be ause you failed to reproduce your genes. Evolution does not have a heaven where Charles Darwin is waiting to embrace you in his loving arms.
You make your own purpose.
“Blaming evolution for one’s sexual behavior is ultimately no different from blaming Satan for making you do it.” Methinks you are misunderstanding urges and even needs (sex) vs absolute needs (having to piss for instance). Think of fight, flight, freeze, same system but people react differently to it. You can have common urges in humans such as looking for a mate, there are plenty of people who are polygymous and monogamous so it may be less of every man has to do x, but more of a lot of men will have major urges to do x, others y. Having… Read more »
You’re right, I should have distinguished more between evidence-based versions and quack versions. I’m sensing that maybe I’m coming across as some kind of creationist nutjob, but that’s not me. (If I’m a nutjob, it’s a nutjob who sees abundant evidence supporting the theory of natural selection.) I see a huge difference between the way that responsible, professionally trained biologists talk about evolutionary factors and the way that others bastardize the science to fit their own gendered political ends. In my clumsy way, I was hoping to rescue the theories from the people who abuse them.
Yeah some are quick to try say “men are wired for cheating” yet only some men may be more INCLINED to do so. At best it decribes urges, even bad urges like gnawing hunger but still we can choose what to do. If you’re polygamous, prob not a good idea to stay monogamous if you can’t handle it for instance.
Archy:
I think the only fair thing to do is have open relationships.
For poly’s yeah I agree.
Actually, poly means having more than one committed partner, it doesn’t mean “open relationship”. Any relationship can be “open”, including heterosexual marriages. I’m in a poly relationship, I have a girlfriend and a boyfriend. Poly can have a vast variety of types of relationship structure, like any other kind of human interaction. My partners aren’t sexual with each other by their own choice, but we all live together and trust each other. In many poly relationships, the partners are exclusive to and with each other; with nothing “open” about it. Other poly relationships may be “open”. But poly = open… Read more »
Sorry – not well said at all -:)
The only people I ever hear making these types of statements are gender theorists who are cultural essentialists (i.e. Blank Slatists). They tilt at imaginary windmills with their discredited postmodern theory of human behavior. Nobody of any consequence uses a term like “hard wired” except for those not in the field that don’t understand it.
You sweep with a pretty broad brush there. Are we “hard wired” to find shelter in a storm? “Hard wired” to associate trees with water? Etc, etc, etc? At what point does an evolutionary trait become hard wired? Ten-thousand years, one million, two million?
You’re right. (I should probably draw up a form letter disclaimer about this.) I should have been clearer that I was talking about the way evo bio theories have been contorted by people who have their own gender or political or personal motives.
I always wonder why the guys, such as pickup artists, who love evolutionary psychology don’t realize that it’s more insulting to men than women. They are basically saying that men are essentially portable sperm depositing devices. At least women (by this theory) are trying to have babies and nurture the next generation. Men (according to this theory) are practically non sentient walking penises. There’s a weird deep sea fish where when a male finds a female, he attaches himself to her body like a parasite. After that, his body and brain atrophy until he becomes nothing but a penis and… Read more »
My understanding of what many of them say is… There isn’t one type of guy, there are multiple types, alphas, betas, etc. Alphas are the walking sperm bank, beta’s are settled for by women who are pregnant or have kids. Basically alphas make the child, betas look after them. There is an often spoken line about durign different stages of a woman’s period cycle she wants an alpha or a beta….an alpha for superior physical genes (hence athletic hot men are preferred) and beta’s as better fathers selected for ability to provide, nurture, etc. Whether or not it’s true as… Read more »
I think you need to embrace a certain world view to find it insulting to either men or women. I’ve read some of their writing and while I don’t try to live that way, I do recognize that here are some rules of thumb for how most people work, most of the time. Not vastly different or vastly more significant from knowing that bringing a bottle of wine, being pleasant and interesting company and thanking the host is more likely to get you invited to the next party. It’s descriptive information and possibly helpful, not a prescriptive standard or anything… Read more »
This article gender stereotypes violence and victimhood.
I think that once we look beyond stereotypes like to ones this piece is pushing and start looking at (mainly women’s) violence against children, we will be on the right track for significant reductions in anti-social and violent behaviour in adults. We also need to start looking at women’s domestic violence instead of pretending that it doesn’t really exist.
The primary victims should be children, not women. Women’s violence, seeing as they absorb the least violence but are mainly responsible for early experiences with violence should be prioritized too.
“So why do we as men, believe and play into the basest of these stereotypes?” I do believe there is a subsegment of men, namely the PUAs/RSDers (a la “Tyler Durden”), who play off of those stereotypes so that they can have better luck with the opposite sex…Tyler and Julien (of RSD/youtube videos) state that women have the “attention span of ants” and therefore, use this “fact” to better strategize how to approach women… Married men hit on me all the time (even while I flash my rings and sometimes my husband nearby..!)…I think in the past I have often… Read more »
Not all men. Not all…
Its not only a degrading kick in the teeth, but such horrid swipes do real, palpable damage to some relationships. Its similar to the Nazi adage that “if you tell a life long enough and frequently enough, people believe it.” Well…some wives of very faithful husbands may not have a safe and sound experience with this; either in childhood witness or peer experience. The “Dawg-man” is now a cultural “given.” it erodes and erodes and erodes good mens’ integrity, until those who cannot maintain or enjoy truly good men feel not so alone. Media and individuals need to stop spreading… Read more »
Insults aren’t just given, they also have to be taken. In the same way, most of the time, the fact that a particular stereotype exists doesn’t mean that we have to be oppressed by it. If you have a backbone, nerve, a robust sense of self, and a thick skin most of these things don’t have to bother you much. When someone says that men are slaves to their sex drive I don’t feel the sting of an insult. While I know that I have a strong sex drive and that I could be its slave if I didn’t bother… Read more »
“Why don’t we say that women have to disprove the stereotype that they are slaves of their emotions, hyper-sensitive, especially passive aggressive, etc. (although we will carve out a place for the ‘exceptions’)?” The entire 70’s working woman workplace (magazines, advice etc) was filled with this. Don’t cry baby, be aggressive, don’t be sensitive. Having grown up watching women actively fight those emotions I’d say that happened. Here is the thing. Cultures encourage us to hyper motivate some emotions and suppress others based on gender or age. Doesn’t mean that it’s WHO we are. Only a societal trapping. Is it… Read more »
We also need to ask whether the ends of the particular activity are harmed by tolerating certain behaviours. There are some areas of life where thin-skinned people are a liability and if we want to participate, we really need to toughen up first. None of us has a God-given right to participate in every area of life.
The problem is the embedded stereotype in the prohibition. If we want to operate at the highest level of the business world we need thick-skins, an agentic drive, assertiveness, a strong nerve, a willingness to offend and be offended, etc. However, especially to target women with the message not to be sensitive, etc. is merely to strengthen the stereotype that women can’t take responsibility for and control over their emotions.
I don’t think I disagreed with you. However, I’d prefer working worlds in which more humane values were, well, valued.
I didn’t think that you were straightforwardly disagreeing with me. I just think dialectically, so am always pushing and pulling against whatever position is expressed. My concern is that we have a rather narrow conception of what ‘humane values’ are. Certain supposedly humane values can be very dangerous in certain areas of life. For instance, highly sensitive surgeons might not be a great idea. In fact, it might be more ‘humane’ to have more emotionally detached people as business leaders and surgeons (Kevin Dutton’s recent work The Wisdom of Psychopaths has some good thoughts on this line). The effectiveness of… Read more »
So why do we, as men, believe and play into these basest stereotypes about our nature? One reason is that we, as men, try to spare women’s feelings. Not being sexually attractive to someone isn’t a big deal for men. We’ve all been there, we all get rejected countless times. It’s business as usual. The default state for the average man is women who are not attracted to him. If a woman is attracted to us it’s an exception. For women on the other hand getting sexually rejected is a big deal. In my experience, if you reject a woman… Read more »
Well said Thomas.
I was pursued for months by a colleague who I netiher liked as a person, or found at all physically attractive. All our mutual female colleague told me I was “mean” for not going out with her. Even my parents thought it was rude of me to keep rejecting her advances.
My brother had to deal with the same problem for years. He finally took to telling people he was gay. So here’s my family’s apology to gay people everywhere. (No really, true story.)
Why is it that, when women are faced with negative generalizations (“Women are hyperemotional and illogical”), the onus of responsibility is on the people making the generalizations to stop. Yet when men are faced with a negative generalization (“Men are mindless sex beasts”), the onus of responsibility is on men to ‘be held to a higher standard’ and to ‘stop letting men off the hook’? If it’s our responsibility as men to ‘step up’ and disprove wrongheaded stereotypes, is it also fair to say that black people or LGBTQ individuals or women need to ‘step up’ and disprove harmful stereotypes… Read more »
@Drew Morrison
I’d venture to guess that women, minorities and LGBT are in a daily battle to disprove harmful stereotypes against them.
White males have all of the power and therefore all of the responsibility. Does that clear it up for you? Personally I’m going to take advantage of this by starting an entire proclamation series.
The first Man With the Power Proclamation: Tofu will now be removed from the food chain. The only caveat is if another more food-like name can be found. If it’s properly renamed it can stay in. Maybe something like “Hero Jello”…
…upon further reflection, I hereby abdicate…
Why is the onus on men? Well, I think it’s generally men who most support the stereotype, because it serves us (as the author said, it leaves us an excuse if we misbehave). Some women may also believe the stereotype, but probably more because they’ve had experiences with men who used these excuses for their behaviour, or their friends’. Women who have dated good men who don’t say or do shit like that will know it’s not true. The stereotype of women being more emotional was not created by women to excuse themselves, so it’s different. Society has labelled certain… Read more »
“The stereotype of women being more emotional was not created by women to excuse themselves, so it’s different.”
Source? While you’re at it, find me some evidence that “men are slaves to their sex drives” was created by men. I’ll wait while you look it up.
“The stereotype of women being more emotional was not created by women to excuse themselves, so it’s different.” And no woman has ever used the excuse “It’s a womans perogative” to avoid having to give a reason for a seemingly random change of mind, or “It’s my time of the month” for abusive behaviour and uncontroled mood swings? I’m sorry, but this is more psudo femanist nonsens that men are wrong women are right. Women have to take responsability for not being sexist as men do. There is too much of an asumption that men are sexist and women are… Read more »
I had the “I’m not feeling a “more than friends” spark” talk last week.
It went OK, but she was sad because she liked the way things were headed.
And I felt a little bad because she is a smart, funny, wonderful person. It just wasn’t there for me.
Now the spark with this other lady that I started dating last week….
You’re definitely not doing anyone any favors hanging around if you feel like they’re just a friend. I like Jamie’s approach to the conversation. As a woman, I think that’s how I’d like it framed.