What is it about geek culture that’s so unwelcoming to female fans? And why is it so reluctant to admit that? Doctor Nerdlove investigates.
This article was originally posted at Paging Dr. Nerdlove.
I want to tell you a story.
A few years ago, I was dating a girl who was decidedly not nerd curious. She tolerated my geeky interests with a certain bemused air1 but definitely didn’t participate in ‘em… not even setting foot inside a comic store on new comic day. She’d wait outside until I was done… which could be a while, since I was friends with several of the staff.
She came in the store exactly once, after I’d explained that no, it’s a pretty friendly place… well lit, spacious, organized and with helpful – and clearly identified – staff members who were willing to bend over backwards to make sure their customers were satisfied.
She was in there for less than 4 minutes before one mouth-breathing troglodyte began alternately staring at her boobs – evidently hoping that x-ray vision could develop spontaneously – and berating her for daring to comment on the skimpy nature of the costumes – in this case, Lady Death and Witchblade. She fled the premises, never to return.
When both the manager and I explained to him in no uncertain terms as to what he did wrong he shrugged his shoulders. “Hey, I was just trying to help you guys! She couldn’t understand that chicks can be tough and sexy! Not my fault she’s a chauvinist,” he said.
And that was when I shot him, your honor.
So with that example in mind, let’s talk about a subject I’ve touched on before: Male Privilege and how it applies to geeks and – more importantly – geek girls.
Male Privilege: What Is It, Exactly?
I don’t think I’m breaking any news or blowing minds when I point out that geek culture as a whole is predominantly male. Not to say that women aren’t making huge inroads in science fiction/fantasy fandom, gaming, anime and comics… but it’s still a very male culture. As such, it caters to the predominantly male audience that makes it up. This, in turn leads to the phenomenon known as male privilege: the idea that men – most often straight, white men – as a whole, get certain privileges and status because of their gender.
(Obvious disclaimer: I’m a straight white man.)
In geek culture, this manifests in a number of ways. The most obvious is in the portrayal of female characters in comics, video games and movies. Batman: Arkham City provides an excellent example.
To start with, we have three of the male characters of Arkham City:
Here we have the brooding vigilante, the psycho ICP fan and The Doctor
Then we have three of the female characters:
Here we have the dominatrix, the crazy hooker and Exotic Fanservice Girl…
Notice how the differences in how they’re portrayed and costumed? The men are fully clothed and deadly serious. They are clearly defined: the mighty hero, the ominous villains.
The women are all about sex, sex, sexy sextimes. With maybe a little villainy thrown in for flavor. They may be characters, but they’re also sexual objects to be consumed.
I will pause now for the traditional arguments from my readers: these characters are all femme fatales in the comics, all of the characters in the Arkham games are over-the-top, the men are just as exaggerated/sexualized/objectified as the women. Got all of that out of your systems? Good.
Because that reaction is exactly what I’m talking about.
Y’see, one of the issues of male privilege as it applies to fandom is the instinctive defensive reaction to any criticism that maybe, just maybe, shit’s a little fucked up, yo. Nobody wants to acknowledge that a one-sided (and one-dimensional) portrayal of women is the dominant paradigm in gaming; the vast majority of female characters are sexual objects. If a girl wants to see herself represented in video games, she better get used to the idea of being the prize at the bottom of the cereal box. If she wants to see herself as a main character, then it’s time to get ready for a parade of candyfloss costumes where nipple slips are only prevented by violating the laws of physics. The number of games with competent female protagonists who wear more than the Victoria’s Secret Angels are few and far between.
The idea that perhaps the way women are portrayed in fandom is a leetle sexist is regularly met with denials, justifications and outright dismissal of the issue. So regularly, in fact, that there’s a Bingo card covering the most common responses. Part of the notion of male privilege in fandom is that nothing is wrong with fandom and that suggestions that it might benefit from some diversity is treated as a threat.
But what is that threat, exactly?
In this case, the threat is that – ultimately – fandom won’t cater to guys almost to exclusion… that gays, lesbians, racial and religious minorities and (gasp!) women might start having a say in the way that games, comics, etc. will be created in the future. The strawmen that are regularly trotted out – that men are objectified as well, that it’s a convention of the genre, that women actually have more privileges than guys – are a distraction from the real issue: that the privileged are worried that they won’t be as privileged in the near future if this threat isn’t stomped out. Hence the usual reactions: derailment, minimization and ultimately dismissing the topic altogether.
As much as my nerdy brethren wish that more girls were of the geeky persuasion, it’s a little understandable why women might be a little reticent. It’s hard to feel valued or fully included when a very vocal group insists that your input is irrelevant, misguided and ultimately unwelcome. It’s small wonder why geekdom – for all of its self-proclaimed enlightened attitudes towards outsiders and outcasts – still retains the odor of the guy’s locker room.
Photo—Mataparda/Flickr
Now that every male space can be invaded, thats equality, because male only spaces are sexist but female only spaces of course that’s not sexist that’s just empowerment and progression. No double standards of course!
@John Gottman I am studying British WW1 propaganda and the common strategy linking all of the messaging running through most of the material was the same; use shame, guilt and emasculation to accomplish the task. Underpinning these messages was a foundational belief in the utilitarianism of the aspiring male character. In WW1the successful use this technique lead to scores of middle class educated men and boy’s going to war, some having received only two weeks training before being sent to the front. Like the Civil war, the male persona was thought to be enhanced and uplifted by making this sacrifice… Read more »
@John Gottman D : You make good points, the truth seems to be that the mercenary quality you speak of in relationships is real and powerful. However, it should be noted that this quality has always been of part of relationships. Circumstances, such as the awakening of men and intractable, cyclical unemployment have increased the awareness of the existence of quality. I also think you are right in that, for better or worse, chivalry did serve to provide rules of engagement that were more or less clear and agreed upon. When the rules changed 30 years ago,things slowly began to… Read more »
Interesting points, but you fail to go near a solution to the problem. When it comes down to it, white, straight, middle-class males have the most disposable income. Comic books and video games are expensive. If they believed that speaking to women’s issues would bring in a massive female contingent, they’d be on that by now. Solve the first point and the others follow. But while comic-book companies know that they’re a luxury and that men can afford more luxuries, it’s clearly in their interests to play to that audience. Interesting sidebar: Darkchylde, probably the worst culprit in my memory… Read more »
@dungone: I come from a military family, my father served in Korea and my oldest brother served 2 tours in Nam. What is truly remarkably disappointing is how disconnected most women are from an issue that has affected mostly men and the country so profoundly since it’s inception. The comments from the women on this thread reflect this disconnection and lack of concern, intentional or not. I have seen it and felt it before. It is frustrating, considering the amount of time and energy females expect to have invested in them, that it is not reciprocated, and is taken for… Read more »
“As such, it caters to the predominantly male audience that makes it up. This, in turn leads to the phenomenon known as male privilege: the idea that men – most often straight, white men – as a whole, get certain privileges and status because of their gender.” Male privilege is usually used to mean systematic, unidirectional power. Having some types of media cater to you is not evidence of that. In an egalitarian world there would be different media produced to different people’s tastes. “Nobody wants to acknowledge that a one-sided (and one-dimensional) portrayal of women is the dominant paradigm… Read more »
@Marcus:Hey man,you are right.Most of my stuff I write is on my Go phone which doesn’t have many features.
@Marcus:Hey man,you are right.Most of my stuff I write on my go phone which doesn’t allow much word processing.
Checking pictures from conventions. Checking my own memories from conventions I went to, and my own geek friends. That’s funny, all I say is an almost 50-50 split between men and women. And you know what, the women usually come dressed as the very “misogynist, creepily-depicted female characters” that you claim are driving them away. In fact, they enjoy the attentions those costumes get them. Ah! So the “misogynist, creepily-depicted female characters” actually drive petty, pathetic, spineless, insecure, narcissist asshole women away, while the cool, fun, strong, confident women with spines keep flocking to it, huh? I say we stay… Read more »
@Sarah Radford:Actually, America has a rich history of draft and war resistance.However,like most things in life,doing so is far more complicated than is indicated by your oversimplified response.The fact is the potus has broad powers to compell youngmen,in time of war,to fight under various threats.It’s for someone to say ,”just go to jail.”Sure,you will go to prison and as a felon lose your right to work and to vote. So,forget getting married or having meaningful relationships because you can’t afford them.There are some great books that chronicle the lives of some men who did what you say.Really, your response reveals… Read more »
og, I’m guessing that paragraph breaks would be too much to ask for, but for the love of fellow commenters, could you please put spaces after your punctuation? I always feel like your comments are trapped in a trash compactor with Luke, Leia, Han, and Frodo. As the Jedi Spock would say, “May the spacebar be with you and prosper.”
If women are able to avoid fighting in wars, why don’t more men refuse? That’s what I’m asking. Men could stop war if enough refused.
Do you think an infantry force that is 50% women (which I agree would be fair as far as gender equality goes) would be as effective against a foreign army as an infantry that is 100% men? I actually don’t know, I have no military experience, but it is worth asking I think.
Because women get this lil female privilege of being protected in times of war. Chivalrous attitudes mean that yes women often lack the choice but they also get shielded from a lot of wartime violence, currently they suffer 4-6x LESS deaths from violence in war. And before anyone tries to tell me it’s not a privilege then you really need to take a long hard look at what privilege is, it’s one of the best privileges you can get to have someone else fight to protect you. Yes it comes at a cost, but the cost for men is far… Read more »
“Because women get this lil female privilege of being protected in times of war.” So do children, yet no one points to children and goes “they’re protected in times of war so they’re privileged” or questions/examines why. It’s worth examining *why* anyone has any particular privilege, though. When it comes to women and war, pragmatically speaking, men cannot bear children, and one man can relatively easily impregnate multiple women. The converse is not true, and so in the past, where mortality rates were high, it made sense to protect women, so that the population wasn’t completely wiped out by the… Read more »
“So do children, yet no one points to children and goes “they’re protected in times of war so they’re privileged” or questions/examines why.” Not all children, and in some cases only female children as the male children are forced to be soldiers. Adult women also have a much better chance of defending themselves and fighting vs children, as proven by countless female soldiers that exist today. Trying to act like women don’t have privilege here is pathetic. Children also have privilege in this area but due to their age, maturity in both mental and physical attributes it’s not expected for… Read more »
Trying to act like women don’t have privilege here is pathetic. Say what? Where did I do that? My entire post relies upon acknowledging that women are privileged with regards to protection during war. Children also have privilege in this area but due to their age, maturity in both mental and physical attributes it’s not expected for them to fight when we have adults around. Similarly, because one of the primary functions of women in society traditionally has been to have children, it’s not expected that women fight when there are men around. As I mentioned before, it results from… Read more »
Apologies, it looked like you were trying to divert attention away from women by talking about children and how no one asks about their privilege.
True for the second part, I read about the factory workers who were kids working with some extremely harsh chemicals losing their jaws from the gases…..sickening stuff:(
” If women are able to avoid fighting in wars, why don’t more men refuse? That’s what I’m asking. Men could stop war if enough refused.
”
Sarah, honestly, do you think men have hive-minds?
If women are able to avoid fighting in wars, why don’t more men refuse? That’s what I’m asking.
Because when it comes to fighting intersects with gender the expectations are different.
Women were kept out of the fighting and men were tossed into it.
And just like with any population its real easy for someone to look at the other side and start asking a bunch of “what if….” questions.
I may as well as why don’t more women take over more Fortune 500 companies.
If women are able to avoid fighting in wars, why don’t more men refuse? That’s what I’m asking. Men could stop war if enough refused. I was in the Marines. Many of the men I fought and killed in Iraq were drafted and they did not want to fight. But if they refused, members of the Ba’ath Party would go into their homes and murder their wives and children. One time I saw a dead Ba’athist, shot point blank in the head by his own men who wanted to surrender, but they feared that he would alert the people holding… Read more »
correction in the last sentence… it’s supposed to say, “because all of the men in your life took your suggestion.”
A conventional First World infantry with 50% women? Possibly less effective. A force of non-conventional combatants, like guerrillas, sappers, saboteurs, terrorists, etc.? Absolutely, women could probably be even more effective than men. The forces operating against American troops in Afghanistan travel extremely light. They don’t have to be super athletes. They don’t have to carry really heavy packs. There are plenty of women who could physically perform the same military roles. Sure, you can assume that they’re going to lose this war if you want, but you can’t say they’ve had no success. Don’t forget about the mechanization and computerization… Read more »
it’s hardly a controlled experiment, but Israel, which has had women in combat since before there was an Israel, has done quite well for itself in ground combat (including infantry battles) against the all-male armies of its neighbors.
There may well be some military men who believe what you say.At one point in history abortions were illegal,women changed it because it was a priority.It’s simple matter of priorities.I mean, why go to war if someone else,who is trained almost from birth to protect you,will do it for you.For me,therein lies the frustrating,painful rub,the refusal to admit the obvious.Most men lack the aggression to kill other people too.Hell,most men lack sufficient aggression to engage in a fistfight, unless struck first.Male aggression is vastly overstated, thanks to you know who…Besides mothers contribute to the conditioning of male’s as aggressors, as… Read more »
Men could refuse to fight in combat. If enough men refused, war would be impossible. Yes, during times when the draft is in effect, you could go to jail. But if everyone refused, they couldn’t jail everyone. If soldiers were not willing to fight, there would be no war.
@Sarah Radford: yes and if my granpá had wheels he would be a car. In a ideal world maybe, Sarah, but we arent living in that kind of world. The ‘ if you all…ect ‘ is not a good a way forward. Its more a evasive tactic. And beside, war is a more complex matter, than just few politicans who decide what to do or not to do.
“Men could refuse to fight in combat. If enough men refused, war would be impossible. Yes, during times when the draft is in effect, you could go to jail. But if everyone refused, they couldn’t jail everyone. If soldiers were not willing to fight, there would be no war.” Female privilege has never been so obvious than this comment 😛 Men that refused to fight would be jailed, socially ostracized or put to death. What you ask for is impossible as someone is always willing to fight, and when you’re faced with an invading army often you have no choice… Read more »
@jp:What’s up? My point in mentioning your self-imposed neutrality was to suggest one can attract more hummingbirds with a feeder than a.My sense is you found out more than you otherwise might have by going ninja blogger style.I ain’t mad at you.Was it worth it?Where neo feminism is concerned,they were left with a credibilty gap to bridge and fences to mend.Which has been largely overlooked during feminism’s generational shift.The attitudes and values you expressed about the current feminists views on men’s sexuality are hardly common and would’ve raised eyebrows in feminists circles 20 years ago.Feminism has been so wrong about… Read more »
@Kyll:The point your comment raises I agree with because it’s true and underscores my original thesis.Which is a contrasting comparison of the relative paths to full enfranchishment of some women and some men in America.More to the point,for African-American men, combat service in a variety of wars and theaters was a condition of acquiring equality.This was particularly true of the Civil War,where through the stature,courage and political will of Frederick Douglas, the Negro openly leveraged his bravery and service as a condition of freedom for his community.The same can be said for WW 2.In general,as a comparison,men have fought in… Read more »
I think actually the more prevalent attitude is that women would be poor soldiers in combat due to less physical strength and aggressiveness. I think that is a common belief among military men.
I don’t know what strength and aggressiveness have to do with the Pentagon’s current video game approach to warfare. You don’t need to benchpress 400 pounds to fly a Predator drone.
Combat jobs are the only ones women can’t enlist into. Infantry, artillery, etc.
The best way to bring two groups that differ in proportion together is through the use of humor. “I don’t have to tell you it goes without saying that there are some things better left unsaid. I think that speaks for itself. The less said about it the better.” The above is George Carlin’s way of settling friction between groups when competing interests exist. I think that when people feel slighted, their moral decisions are driven by emotions and then justified by post hoc reasoning. That’s how you get strange positions such as: I’m going to treat you poorly because… Read more »
@Sarah Radford:Good points. With the mom’s group, I would say that taking care of kids is not gender specific, so when in public women will be around men, women, grandfathers, guardians, uncles,aunts and so forth,get used to it, it’s their space too;and in shared space the rules change.Women have and society dictates that men are going to be in the nursery and the parks and playgrounds with women.So don’t expect a man to leave if it’s feeding time.Just like the nerds who WANT women in their space, women who want men to take a lead role in raising kids need… Read more »
In response to Sarah’s question about mom’s groups and men: I can see the gray area. Within reason, it’s fair to go by the principle of “majority rules,” but ideally without totally shunning the members of the minority. I think it’s fair to expect that if there’s a group that tends to be 90% moms and 10% dads, the conversation will tend towards women’s topics more than men’s (insofar as they are different). I would expect as a guy going there that there may be subjects that I don’t have much to say about. In most cases, there is some… Read more »
“Who knows? Maybe even dads and moms could learn something from each other….”
Moms and dads *actually* communicating? Perish the thought! Society as we know it would completely fall apart.
Anyone else up for some anarchy?
As a woman without children, I also feel excluded by the conversation between moms. It’s frustrating, as some of my best friends became like strangers to me as soon as they had a baby. They never seem to get tired of talking about baby stuff! Which is fine, that’s what they are most interested in and maybe that’s how it should be. But from the outside, motherhood does seem like an exclusive club sometimes.
@ Sarah: I gotta admit that I am surprised that you, who I consider to be one of the more thoughtful female voice I’ve encountered socially,can’t see that in society female spaces abounds. That you don’t see these things speaks to something very wrong with society.There are Women’s colleges,the home,entertainment, like novels books, plays,comics,The Lifetime Network, the sex industry,yes, women pay for sex too and of course the whole male stripper culture geared toward women.
Actually what I meant in my comment, I asked if there are a lot of female spaces that men want to be PART of. Do you want Lifetime to show more movies that appeal to men? I’m not denying there are female spaces, in fact, there are lots of them. I think what some female gamers are saying is that they would like to see more that appeals to them. Which I think is fair (though personally it is not something I worry about that much, other female gamers are bothered more), just as I think it would be fair… Read more »
Roller derby, softball, ringuette, to name 3 sports.
Softball was apparently developed as the “easier” equivalent of baseball. Considered less manly by some. In some place the divide is stark, boys play baseball, girls play softball. Girls can also play baseball if they want, but boys can’t play softball if there’s no mixed team.
Ringuette is also the more-feminine equivalent of hockey.
And roller derby was originally mixed. Now its considered female only.
I kinda like the Lifetime channel, actually. It tends to show relatively attractive women in lead roles and in a variety of exciting situations. I would prefer a bit more sex and nudity on it, though. Only if it’s integral to the plot, of course…..
Yes, Sarah, this is going to sound a bit snarky, but there are quite a few female spaces that exist that men would like to have as well. I’ll name just 3 off the top of my head that are federally mandated: 1.) I’d love to have ONE federal department of health focus on men. We have 5 bureaus under 3 different departments for women’s health, despite men dying of virtually every known cause more than women, and receiving less federal funding. 2.) I’d love to be in the women’s only space that gives federal protections against violence, considering that… Read more »
That’s fair, but I was actually thinking more about social groups and cliques and hobbies, not the political realm I think that there are hobbies that attract men and hobbies that attract women, and if you try to cross the gender divide, you will feel somewhat out of place. I don’t really agree with women who complain that geek culture is not friendly enough to women, because male dominated hobbies are going to be, well, male dominated. The solution is to find the right group of friends within that subculture. One of my hobbies is knitting, which is dominated by… Read more »
Actually, I can think of one: book clubs. I’d love to be part of a book club, and not a specifically “guy” book club.
@Kyll:The problem with your example is that it does not represent large numbers of women. Large numbers of women lobby aggressively for, as they should, women’s health concerns like abortion right’s, or equal pay etc.These are issues are considered mainstream and mainstream women don’t care about doing their fair share on the battlefield and never really have.Of course, your probably going to say if men did XYZ that women would change which simply passing the buck. African American men during the Civil War, WW1,Korea and WW2 endured hardships to gain their right to represent their country women today couldn’t even… Read more »
“African American men during the Civil War, WW1,Korea and WW2 endured hardships to gain their right to represent their country women today couldn’t even imagine.” Women have served in every military conflict since before the founding of the USA. Perhaps they weren’t there in an official *combat* capacity, but you cannot deny that women have been present and in danger in service to their country, with thousands having lost their lives in the line of duty. Molly Pitchers, women spies, nurses, those who cleaned and performed other menial tasks (like laundry), female snipers, cross-dressers like Deborah Sampson… What was that… Read more »
I’ve heard of Russian female snipers (in fact I’ve heard Russia trained 55,000 female snipers), but I’ve never heard of American female snipers (at least not commissioned by the armed forces). There may have been some very early in American Revolution or next 40 years thereafter, but I do not believe I have ever heard of the armed forces commissioning training of female snipers. Additionally, I don’t know about early American history, but my understanding is male soldiers have been doing their own cooking and cleaning for at least since WWI. Maybe you should double check your sources before just… Read more »
have you seen what happens to most comics when they perfectly balance the cast between gender, race, sexual orientation, and able bodied – nes? It turns into some of the most boring crap ever written, It also ceases to look like any naturally formed group of companions and turns all of the character development into this horribly forced, family friendly, artificially constructed non offensive dialog.
But ya know, who cares if it’s entertaining, as long as it represents women equally right?
I believe this is the biggest push-and-pull. Natural, non-artificial diversity appears when society, itself begins to change. Every attempt by comics (great example) to try to be more “inclusive” and “diverse” in the ’80’s and ’90’s felt ham-handed as if there was a very specific and acute motivation outside of story and narrative. We’ve seen a very great maturity in comics begin to pop-up, especially in the indie segment (and with graphic novels rise in popularity). I always look at the storyline between Emma Frost and Scott Summers from the last 10 years of X-Men where we see a “weak… Read more »
Geeks are the idiots who give us nerds a bad name.
“You will never find large numbers of women clamoring for the right to be represented in combat units in the military” The ladies of the U.S. Navy would like to have a word with you. They’ve been fighting for inclusion as submariners for decades, and only recently has Naval policy changed to allow women to serve on submarines. Just one example. Women have been pushing for greater integration within combat units for a long time, but public opinion and purported concerns for unit cohesion, fraternization, and costs have been used to prevent such. I’d recommend looking up Rhonda Cornum, if… Read more »
@kyll , if you think a submarine counts as a combat unit, you have alot to learn about what a combat unit is, especially in this day and ago. The US is about the only country in the world (other than allies) that has working and modern submarines.
If you think being on a sub means they’re not a combat unit, you have a lot to learn about military structure and operations. Just because they won’t see direct, face-to-face combat does not mean it’s any less stressful or dangerous, or that their lives aren’t at risk. They’re in an confined and enclosed space under tons of water for months at a time, interacting with the same people without any place to escape. A single mistake or malfunction can take out the entire sub and/or kill everyone on it, and so every little thing is triple checked. Mistakes don’t… Read more »
You really don’t know what you’re talking about if you are equating the stress and danger of submarine service in the US Navy to service in infantry or armor units. Yes, everything is triple checked- its also triple redundant. We havent had a sub disaster in DECADES. An AK 47 from 1963 can kill you just as dead as the most modern weapon carried by a US Marine. One joker with a beat up old rifle can easily kill the most well equipped infantryman out there. Good luck finding ANY nation that is hostile to us that has the capability… Read more »
Actually, Not buying it, some of us did mention the point you made, several times, in a variety of ways. I disagree with Mr. Johnson’s assertion that one cannot, male or female, have a space dedicated to one’s own point of view.It is natural to do so and human’s have been self segregating along gender lines since humans began to walk the earth. There are plenty of games out for people to enjoy that reflect values and attitudes they view as proper, so no oned is being left out. Secondarily, if a man goes on a tv show, let’s say,… Read more »
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by women not be willing to open up female spaces. Are there many spaces dominated by women that men want to participate in? That said, I kind of agree with you. No one is obligated to associate with anyone they dont want to. If moms at tge playground don’t want to invite the kid with the SAHD on playdates, that is unfortunately their prerogative. They can also exclude women who serve the wrong kind of snacks, kids they think are bullies, moms who work or whoever else they feel like. You can’t… Read more »
How come non of us male’s are not pointing to the elephant in the room when it comes to this discussion. Way can’t men have a certain space in gaming were the rules are dictate by males for males , not for sexist reasons but for the simple fact we don’t want play by the general society’s rules so by default women’s rules as long as nobody is being harmed in which us males are basically running away from any demands by others (male or female), who wants us to behave as they want. Way not?? women have there’s in… Read more »
So… you want to unilaterally dictate that gaming is a men only affair? What about men, like myself, who enjoy the company of both sexes when gaming? What about women who want to play games?
You don’t get to declare part of society off limits to one gender – and nor does anyone else. You’re welcome to form your own little exclusionary “no girls allowed” group, of course. I’ll help you paint the sign for the treehouse.
What about the right of free association? How about those that wish games to be changed to suit their taste….put their money where their mouth is and support those that have …rather than spend cash on male-centric games?
So you’re opposed to women-only spaces, all-female colleges, and “safe spaces”? Great! Glad to have you on board the equality train!
My last year of college I “lived the dream” so to speak of every nerd (I think I was more of a nerd than a geek) and found myself dating the very attractive, very popular, former cheerleader from my HS that I had an immense crush on during HS (she wouldn’t have given me the time of day then, and how I arrived at that point in life is probably worthy of it’s own article). I suddenly had insight into the other side of the HS social order. I would ask her questions like “why did you date that guy?”,… Read more »
Teen girls are very immature emotionally (so are teen boys) and the amount of shaming and rejection that goes on in HS is truly awful . I was a geeky, socially inept and unattractive girl. The cheerleader types were awful to me and I doubt there were any boys fantasizing about me in study hall, I was just invisible to everyone. People considered unattractive whether male or female are often expected to be sexless and to have no sexual or emotional needs, and if they do it’s considered gross or a joke. That’s one reason HS is often so traumatizing… Read more »
The thing is that it does not stop at high school. I know plenty of men who basically lied about their interests so that women would take them seriously. These men did not talk about geekdom on their dates, hid the stuff in their apartments, and told women about their geekdom through a IV drip.
As Bowling for Soup pointed out, “High School Never Ends.” It’s where your social identity is formed and cast in bronze; college years finish carving it in stone.
Dave Barry noted: “I keep reading surveys about What Women Look For in a guy, and they always say ‘a sense of humor.’ Yeah, right. NOW you want a sense of humor. But back in high school, back when it really mattered, you wanted great hair and muscles.”
I am going to go a bit off topic,but not really. It’s just that it’s gotten so nerdy on this thread the last couple of days, I can’t breath.All of this stuff everyone is saying has some degree of merit and thoughtfulness.Nonetheless, the more I read the various threads on this site and others like it there is clearly an element missing from the dynamic:ACTION. These conversations follow a script.Guy critically analyzes some hidden aspect of female culture(feminism) that is ignorant of and perhaps dismissive of it’s negative consequences for men in general and society at large.Guys and some girls… Read more »
I’m always a little confused by the accusation that the entirety of gaming depicts and treats women as sexual objects because if an individual actually believes that, it betrays a very, very shallow and incomplete picture of gaming. There are thousands of games out there, with many, many more being created each day. Of course if you go looking for sexism within gaming you can find it just as you can with just about any topic. Especially this is the case if you limit your sample size and only look in the places where you know your confirmation bias will… Read more »
I think you’re attacking a strawman. I haven’t seen anyone claim that the entirety of gaming is sexist; just that sexism and the male viewpoint predominates. Even Anita Sarkeesian, who you accuse of this, doesn’t, since she explicitly mentions that she intends to call out good games and ones that are examples of good portrayal of women in gaming.
Theoretically, why wouldn’t Sarkeesian just skip the negativity and anger and go straight to the positive of “I’m going to review/bring notice/endorse non-sexist games”? Because, I suspect, being positive and celebrating the good of our culture (generally) doesn’t bring page views and it certainly doesn’t make her money. I’m attacking the Fallacy of Composition that leads her to begin and end with her own confirmation bias while giving a wink to games that she “approves of” to appease. It’s fine and dandy, but one of the real issues is how anger and outrage directed at men has become a venerable… Read more »
Because it doesn’t make much sense to just call out games you like without ever specifying why you like them, or what’s wrong with the ones you don’t. By pointing out things she thinks are problems with the portrayal of females in games, she’s raising awareness of an issue and pointing out specific actionable things that can improve a game (if only by their omission). You might disagree with her opinion of those things – so might I – but since she hasn’t published them yet, it’s hard to say. And I think “outrage directed at men” is a poor… Read more »
What about the old fashioned idea that you should clean your own house before you condemn others. Mote in you brothers eye while ignoring the beam in your own.
Actually, Nick, I wanted to write something specific about the nature of your response, because I find it to be a rather common means of minimizing problematic positions. In the age of the internet you have more voices than ever before and those voices expose a very wide variety of opinions and positions. Sometimes a voice will condemn the entirety of a culture/group/organization, and other times they will not. The common thread is that too often they are able to simultaneously base research off a specific sample of, say, “problem games” while also pointing out “good” examples as well. Yet… Read more »
I’m sorry, I don’t follow a lot of your response. I have no idea what Derailing for Dummies is (besides what the name might imply). I do know that you’re conflating a lot of peoples’ viewpoints in your refutation, such as it is. It’s rarely productive to take statements by several different people, roll them up together, and then claim that, collectively, they’re wrong – because nobody actually said those collection of things. No, nobody’s claiming all games are sexist. Nobody is claiming all gaming is sexist, either, but it’s definitely the case that a large proportion of popular games… Read more »
“No, nobody’s claiming all games are sexist. Nobody is claiming all gaming is sexist, either, but it’s definitely the case that a large proportion of popular games employ tropes that slot female characters into a very narrow set of stereotypes, while affording male characters a much wider (and more proactive) set of roles.” So do feminists and conservatives alike when they portray women as uniform defenseless victims who have no agency. Agency is the power to do good or bad. If you have none, then you’re part of the decor, you have no will that matters, because it won’t have… Read more »
No, nobody’s claiming all games are sexist. Nobody is claiming all gaming is sexist, either […] Actually, someone is: “Nobody wants to acknowledge that a one-sided (and one-dimensional) portrayal of women is the dominant paradigm in gaming; the vast majority of female characters are sexual objects.” A few sentences later: “The idea that perhaps the way women are portrayed in fandom is a leetle sexist is regularly met with denials, justifications and outright dismissal of the issue. So regularly, in fact, that there’s a Bingo card covering the most common responses.” And after that: “In this case, the threat is… Read more »
And it is back to plausible deniability. For a movement whose central tenet is that there exists invisible, unquantifiable bias against X group of people it seems to require no actual logic, just really strong emotions (that are true via “the personal is the political”). It’s Romney’s crazy tax plan which won’t cut 5 Trillion, because he says it won’t even when the math can’t find a single way to make it work otherwise. They aren’t saying that all games are bad, they’re just implying that games, as a whole, are bad. Of course not all games are bad, just… Read more »
What roles do men have that women don’t in games? To die more? To be surrounded by violence?