Difficult Conversations and Crossing the Divide

This is a series of posts designed to help people approach diversity and inclusion. These are questions and scenarios we’ve actually heard or seen in the wild. This is part of our corporate programming for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. For more information, click here.

Question: Being an ally is important to me, but an obviously important piece of what that means is having difficult conversations with people who either believe that allyship is unnecessary or worse, some kind of liberal conspiracy. I want to have better tools for dealing with people who are fact-resistant and believe the false stories in the right-wing media. When I present multiple sources that contradict the lies they have heard, I feel like we end up on a merry-go-round in the he said/she said tradition where nobody learns anything and we both end up frustrated. What can I be doing better?

Oh, yes. This dilemma is so familiar. It is so important that those of us who are white allies try to have those difficult conversations with the fact-resistant people that you refer to, about racism and other intersectional issues. And with those who might agree with us about the facts but can’t get motivated to act.

As you said, it has become increasingly frustrating, and I can’t claim much success. We can all think we know what’s right, so changing someone’s mind about anything important can be brutal, if not impossible. Simply mentioning certain issues can lead to anger or anxiety. Just presenting reliable evidence or showing how their evidence is contradictory or comes from unreliable sources doesn’t usually work. Our nation is on edge, suffering not only from what filmmaker Ken Burns called the three pandemics, COVID, white nationalism, and misinformation, but a climate emergency, so the tension we feel makes what’s difficult even more so.

In the political situation we are in today, the strongest wall the right-wing leaders have built is clearly not at our southern border, but down almost the middle of this nation. This wall was very deliberately constructed. Making conversations difficult is one way that differing viewpoints are turned into a wall.

When I taught a class on debate, I did research on persuasion. A key point is to first get your foot in the door. Get any point of acceptance, of something we share or agree about. Say ‘yes’ and hopefully they will do the same. Establish a relationship so we are no longer on the other side of a door, or wall.

When disinformation is mistaken for truth, and truth becomes indistinguishable from belief, anyone who doesn’t reside on our side of the border on an issue is perceived as an enemy. And one of the main components of that wall is racism. So maybe the best thing to expect from ourselves is speaking to that reality as clearly as we can.

George Lakoff, in his books The All New Don’t Think of an Elephant, Know Your Values and Frame the Debate, and Your Brain’s Politics: How the Science of Mind Explains the Political Divide, provides clear, explicit methods for doing this. First, listen for the person’s values and speak to them. Don’t just negate or argue with the other person’s claims. Then, re-phrase or reframe the issue. And once that reframe is accepted in the conversation, our point of view can follow naturally from it, as common sense. Don’t be a patsy to their way of framing or misrepresenting the world. Use frames we really think are true based on values we hold. And recognize who might be more inclined to listen to us.

As an example of reframing, consider the language conservative politicians use to oppose taxing the rich. They might argue that “we” know better how to spend our own money than the government does. They try to place us on the side of the rich, and white. We could reframe by asking, “Do you like bridges, the internet, cell phones, or the army?” All of these are largely paid for or developed with government money. A road system could not be bought with one person’s tax refund. The great majority of us benefit greatly from the rich paying taxes.

Values that many right-wing or even white nationalists hold are security, freedom, religion, economic opportunity; values we could re-frame in a way so a door is opened between us. We all want the security of income, food, home. Freedom is a key value for all of us, but different groups define and frame the discussion in opposing ways. One frames it as the right to do whatever they want. They don’t perceive how freedom without equity is oppression. Another frames it not only as having real choices in their lives but freedom from oppression, the right to be treated equally with other groups in law and all other facets of society.

An article from the Opportunity Agenda makes similar points. If we’re talking with someone, especially someone who is closer to us in viewpoint, and we want to motivate them to act, the first of ten lessons presented in the article is to lead with shared values. In this case, those values might be justice, opportunity, community, equity. Starting with shared values instead of dry facts enables those we talk with to better “hear” what we say.

Another of the lessons is to know the counter narratives, to know what stories people are playing in their heads to deny the existence of racism. Such storylines include: “people of color are obsessed with race”, “alleging discrimination is itself racist and divisive, or ‘playing the race card,’” “Civil Rights are a crutch for those who lack merit or drive.”

To have a conversation is always two-way. To speak we must first listen, listen to our own thoughts and feelings, being as clear in our mind and, of course, as informed as possible. But we don’t just “speak our mind;” we speak in a specific context, to a specific person, and adjust our thinking accordingly.

Before speaking with someone, if we know a conversation is possible, we could use our imagination to help us better understand them. Stop what you’re doing and calmly take 3 longer, deeper breaths. Notice at what point you feel ease or comfort or strength. Or feel the bottom of your feet on the ground, or the air passing over your face. And when you feel more at ease, just hold an image of the other person in your mind. Get comfortable with seeing them or feeling their presence. You might then think of what values they hold, what they love, what they might say. Imagine talking with them, and they hear you, you hear them. Then, if you had closed your eyes partly or fully, open them and look at who stands before you.

I know I often expect so much of myself I get discouraged. When I am confronted with someone who is racist, I want to be able to speak with them without absorbing the hate, blinders, and fear that constitutes racism. Sometimes, the best we can do is have our humanity recognized with a “Hi, how are you?” A bare greeting today might lead to something more tomorrow. We must think long term, and be aware, compassionate, and just with ourselves so we can create a more aware, compassionate, and just world.