This is a comment by wellokaythen on the Comment of the Day: “I wondered why rejection never triggers the self doubt in my female friends as it does my male friends.”
wellokaythen said:
“Another explanation could be that nowadays women have more going on for them outside of relationships while (hetero) men are still heavily defined by their ‘success with women.’ A lot of books out there today saying that women don’t really need men in order to be happy (I agree), but not many books saying that men don’t need women. You would be accused of misogyny for suggesting such a thing, in fact.
“Sure, there’s still a lot of pressure for women to ‘find a man,’ and a lot of judgment about them if they don’t, but with men today there may be even more of one’s identity tied up in finding a mate. A woman without a date for the weekend is probably just too busy, too independent, or sick of men’s crap, while a man without a date for the weekend is a loser, has unrealistic fantasies about women, or is just fundamentally flawed somehow.
“I can’t help noticing that several messages here seem to equate being told ‘no’ with being ‘rejected.’ They’re not the same thing. Saying no by itself is just saying no. Interpreting it as a complete rejection of you as a person is the spin you’re putting on it. It’s the self-talk that you’re attaching to what she said. If she says, ‘no way, gross, you’re a homunculus,’ then yes, that’s a personal rejection. If she says she’s not interested, then that’s just saying no. Taking every polite decline as a personal rejection is a horrible way to go through life, and it may be sending unconscious messages to your prospective mates.”
Photo credit: Flickr / shermeee
“Rejected” is a feeling. It’s an interpretation. Rejection is something perceived, much more than it is something that is done to you. No one can make you feel rejected without your consent. Yes, it can be a very powerful feeling. Yes, it can be incredibly painful, even maddening. It is a real, deep, honest, sincere feeling and you have every right to feel it. At the same time, it is a feeling mostly created inside yourself, not simply something imported from outside. I won’t be so insensitive as to say “get over it.” I’ll just say that if you ever… Read more »
“Rejected” is a feeling. It’s an interpretation. Rejection is something perceived, much more than it is something that is done to you. No one can make you feel rejected without your consent. Yes, it can be a very powerful feeling. Yes, it can be incredibly painful, even maddening. It is a real, deep, honest, sincere feeling and you have every right to feel it. At the same time, it is a feeling mostly created inside yourself, not simply something imported from outside. I won’t be so insensitive as to say “get over it.” I’ll just say that if you ever… Read more »
Big Danny – I still do not see why they want to keep calling this “rejection” . Since more and nore guys have decided not to even approach women, it has to involve something much, much deeper.
Maybe guys just do not want to play a game that is so lopsided. Why does it have to be that walking up to a young lady to begin a friendly conversation has to be something that you do by going outside of your comfor zone?
Big Danny – I still do not see why they want to keep calling this “rejection” . Since more and more guys have decided not to even approach women, it has to involve something much, much deeper.
Maybe guys just do not want to play a game that is so lopsided. Why does it have to be that walking up to a young lady to begin a friendly conversation has to be something that you do by going outside of your comfor zone?
I think that a more palatable word rather than need is to desire or want someone in their life. Is that so bad? I think that is very healthy. A person who needs someone in their life for their existence often creates a sense of “neediness”. This is linked to dependency, which is unhealthy. In those cases, people make decisions based on someone else’s needs and desires, not their own. Most people prefer, desire, or want someone in their life to share life’s experiences – both good and bad. We do better in so many ways and on so many… Read more »
A person who truly feels they do not need others must live a sad existence. Humans by nature crave the connection you make with others as a basic tenet of what makes us happy in life. Using the word “need” conjures up thoughts that a person is incapable of living an independent life, which does not give justice to the true meaning of the word. Men and women don’t “need” each other to survive individually. I can live day to day without a woman in my life and could do so for the next 50 years if that’s what I… Read more »
I agree with Jon D, but only up to a point. I would state it a little differently. You shouldn’t let fear of rejection stand in the way of reaching out to other people, IF that is what you want. “A person who truly feels they do not need others must live a sad existence. Humans by nature crave the connection you make with others as a basic tenet of what makes us happy in life.” This is true in a very general sense, I suppose. But, there is a WIDE spectrum when it comes to how much social connection… Read more »
When i’m single, everytime i hear a song from female singers about how they dont need a man ( like some songs from Beyonce, Destini’s Child, Pussycat Dolls, other female singers ), my heart breaks and sometimes i got teary eyers. Because i really love women and i need them, not sexually, but emotionally. Heck i always love my mother who is a woman. I’m independent, have friends, college degree, jobs, hobby, but i still need a woman in my life. I need love. And hearing from women how they dont need men always makes me sad, especially when i’m… Read more »
I can’t help noticing that several messages here seem to equate being told ‘no’ with being ‘rejected.’ They’re not the same thing. Saying no by itself is just saying no. Interpreting it as a complete rejection of you as a person is the spin you’re putting on it. It’s the self-talk that you’re attaching to what she said. If she says, ‘no way, gross, you’re a homunculus,’ then yes, that’s a personal rejection. If she says she’s not interested, then that’s just saying no. I have to disagree with this a bit. When a woman says no she is sizing… Read more »
“But I do agree with your overall point. A woman not needing a man is freeing. A man not needing a woman is seen as a slight against women (no matter how badly some feminists think that is not the case).” Actually, a woman not “needing” a man is seen as a slight as well. As proof I can offer up tons of male complaining about this topic. 😉 Some men have overly romantic ideas of the word “need”. Or, at the crappy end of the spectrum, they end up being so insecure that they believe that the opposite gender… Read more »
I still think that you are missing my point that the word “need” is a troublesome, gendered word. Traditionally, men “needed” women to meet their needs for companionship and joy (and maybe children), while women “needed” men for survival itself. So I don’t think it’s fair to grumble that one is “freeing” while the other is not, because they’re not really the same thing. Actually I there was a matter of men “needing” women for not just companionship but for matters of emotional health (and the joy and children you mention as well). So I think it is a fair… Read more »
As thoughtful as this comment is, IMO is it’s kind of barking up the wrong tree. IMO the sexist double standard of it being ok for women to not “need” men comes more from the traditional female role of dependency rather than from whether or not someone is a “loser” for being alone. In other words, IMO USUALLY the gist behind telling women that they “don’t need a man” is the idea that they shouldn’t become dependent on men to make the rent for them, make decisions for them, lick their wounds for them, and etc. Since men are already… Read more »
I would add a twist to what you are saying. You may be right that a large portion of MGTOW are embittered. But, that doesn’t mean they don’t have a point. The more calm rational members of the MGTOW I have seen on youtube seem to be stating that: “until the family law (and sex assault) landscape stops being biased strongly in favor of females, it is too dangerous to engage in longterm relationships with women”. I think there time would be better spent volunteering for an org like F&F or SAVE or something, but just labeling them as embittered… Read more »
Overthinking social stereotypes. IF you want companionship, get out and meet people. No one size fits all. Take your time. Every case individual to situation. Don’t want to be used, don’t use. Avoid cheap relationships. Raise the bar. Get centered before you try to connect. Get what you give. Goes both ways.
I sooo love it when I post a comment in two parts (because no edit), and the first part gets caught in moderation while the second part, which doesn’t make sense without the first part, is shown immediately.
… and they better work on it, or else they will be rejected.
A great quote and so often true although thankfully this seems to be changing a little lately. Its like how homosexual men were illegal but not homosexual women for quite some time. On the rejection side seems a lot of women dont like being told theyve been replaced with a toy due to the fact that overly ridiculous DV laws make one feel like they have a gun pointed at their head just being in their company. Pro tip- Try to get in before they get down to underwear or less they will be less annoyed. Have fun men and… Read more »
The last bit was great advice for both genders.
Well, it’s because males aren’t females. I know it sounds stupid but that is what it is. We can’t treat each gender the same way because they are essentially different.
Though, I agree that, people make wrong assumptions or wrong expectations.
There definitley is more promoting of the “independent woman” than the “indepenent man”.
Telling woman to do less and less to attract men while at the same time talkng down men who don’t do what it takes to attract woman.
Looking suspiciously at single men, especially if they say that they’re not looking to be in a relationship.
Refering to a man who isn’t married with kids like his counterpart decades ago as a “Man-Child”, even though he may have a job, be financally independent and have his own place.