Where All the Good Guys Are

 

Good guys are all around us, writes Jamie Iredell. They just don’t make the news as much as the bad guys.

I guess since most of my Facebook friends are liberals (there are a few libertarians, and some token true conservatives) all I hear about in the feed is liberals complaining about the Right and the multiple predictable points of view that the Right espouses. I’m not complaining about this fact, because I myself am liberal, but it seems that, because of the little bubble of my media world, the Right keeps giving men a bad rap. Arizona defines pregnancy as occurring two weeks before conception; some congressman says ,“legitimate rape”; a writer I know on HTMLGiant writes essays about the power of language inherent in a phrase I’ve heard many men use when talking about “uptight chicks”: “That girl needs to get f–ked.” I could not agree more that many men do and say terrible things, especially when it comes to women. What I don’t hear anything about, though, are some of the good things men do or say, or how most boys grow into caring, emotionally-sensitive, thoughtful, and responsible men.

I remember when I was a boy and I said things like, “that girl needs to get f–ked,” or I laughed and agreed when one of my buddies said it. I say, “when I was a boy,” but I’m talking about when I was going into my mid and late twenties. Most boys don’t become men until this latter stage, when women have long been women and acted as such. From everything I’ve seen and heard about human development, females develop faster than males, and in my own experience with my daughter it seems true: she’s way ahead of boys who are months older than her in her daycare class. There are ways in which females are smarter than males, they make connections between themselves and others and the elements of their world more rapidly than males do. Females take into consideration the potential results of their actions before males do. Enough with abstractions: when I was twenty-three years old, I didn’t know what it meant to say something like, “That girl needs to get f–ked.”

♦◊♦

If our politicians serve as indication of this truth, we would all be led to believe that many men do not ever grow out of this juvenile stage of development. Or maybe conservative social ideologies are a kind of retroactive tribal authoritarianism. Some men feel under attack by women, and in their solidarity offer policies that repress women’s rights and at the same time bolster the ideologies of patriarchal institutions under the guise of “morality”: Christianity, The Boy Scouts of America, good ol’ meat-and-potatoes American values.

Despite what my liberal friends report on in the media, my feeling is that most men are moderate, and most men do grow out of such juvenilia. But that also makes such men boring and not media-worthy. Once, while sitting in a graduate seminar on American Modernist Poetry, a female fellow student was talking about Gertrude Stein’s Tender Buttons and the allusions to female-ness, the body, female sexuality, etcetera, inherent in that book-length poem. Another fellow student, and my good friend, a male, a guy who, for years through undergrad had been railing against the “bullshit” that he called feminism, started laughing. This was one of those seminal moments in my own life, in my development. I remember listening to this woman talking and thinking that what she was saying was really interesting, because at this young age (I was twenty-three or twenty-four) I had no idea what to do with a text like Tender Buttons. And when this guy, my friend—a guy with whom I’d laughed over beers and said things like “That chick really needs to get f–ked”—started laughing at this woman, I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed first for the woman, and later for my friend, because this woman stopped talking, looked at my friend and said, “You know, this whole semester I’ve been putting up with you saying derogatory things about women and feminism, and I haven’t said a thing, in the spirit of letting you air your ideas. But I’ve never laughed at what you thought, even though I wanted to, and it’s rude, and I want you to apologize.” My friend chuckled a little bit. The rest of the class was silent, including the male professor. But everyone stared at this friend of mine, including me, waiting for what he’d say in return, and his face reddened, then he said he was sorry. That was the last chauvinistic peep out of that guy that semester.

I’m no longer friends with that man. That could be because I moved 2,500 miles away and I lost his phone number and email address. Or it could be because during this time in graduate school I was growing up, and I no longer thought that feminism was silly. In fact, I’m not sure that I ever thought it was, but that seemed to be what the other guys in the English department thought and I wasn’t confident enough to express an alternate male perspective. It’s not that hard to find someone if you really want to maintain a friendship, and I know what’s true, because years after I’d moved, on a return to the town where I’d earned my Master’s, this guy attended my reading while I was on a book tour. Afterwards we had a few beers and caught up. It was a little sad to hear this guy still saying things like, “You fucking pussy,” and “What a fag,” and “That chick’s hot.” I was married to a woman who is a corporate lawyer at one of the country’s largest firms. My daughter was not yet conceived, but we knew we wanted a baby (no, Arizona, this was not yet a pregnancy). I did not then know that I would eventually have a daughter, but I already knew that if I did have one, it was going to be a tough job raising her in a world full of men like that guy. But, I also knew that when I looked around me, at nearly all my male friends—my peers—I saw the responsible, thoughtful, emotionally-sensitive and politically-moderate men who would help me, and maybe when she grew up, she’d be strong, and we’d have all helped to make her world a little better.

photo of students sitting in an amphitheater by Shutterstock.com

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About Jamie Iredell

Jamie Iredell's most recent book is I Was a Fat Drunk Catholic School Insomniac. He is also the author of Prose. Poems. a Novel. and The Book of Freaks.

Comments

  1. Nice piece man. I agree with you in full that most of if not all the men that I’m friends with and know are good men and they far outnumber the more boyish hyper masculine violent types that are portrayed in the media.

    • I withdraw my previous statement. I would agree that I meet more good men than the “more boyish hyper masculine violent types” that you mentioned and that the media makes it seem like there are more of them.

  2. I think the reason it takes so long for guys to grow up is because society doesn’t place very high expectations on young men. In contrast to young women who have a lot of expectations placed on them. “Boys will be boys” is the kind of attitude that make young men act so juvinile. Maturity and respect need to be emphasized with young men the same way it is with youung women. I realize that there is a neurological component that makes women naturally mature faster, but that’s not an excuse, it just show how much more important it is to place such emphasis on young men.

    • *shows

    • I’m going to have to disagree with you about how long it takes guys to grow up in our society because our society has a very narrow shallow criteria of what it means to be an adult. I don’t think the question has anything to do with maturity in my experience it has everything to do with conformity. Men simple just don’t conform to society’s view of adulthood has easy as women, this isn’t to say that women can’t or that there aren’t non-conformist females out in the world but from my observation it seems to me that men are more head strong and independent in that sense. It’s Will to Power we follow our own way.

      In our consumerist western society transitioning to adulthood usually has nothing to do with ethics, values or behavior but with what you consume. It has everything to do with what you own and how successful you are monetarily. So getting yourself buried under a mountain of debt, working a job you hate to pay for a bunch of shit you don’t need and wasting away in front of the TV that’s what it means to be an adult in our society, that’s what it means to be mature. And people wonder why men chose not to conform to the standards of maturity set out by this vapid empty society. What we’re talking about is Nihilism, are culture is nihilistic, human beings need meaning in their life and you’re not going to find it in it’s current form. So you need to find it in another way.

      This is the thing about this question where are all the good men? They are out living the life they think is going to give them some sort of meaning. They grew up listening to a culture that told them they didn’t make enough money, they weren’t good looking enough, they weren’t smart enough, they weren’t violent or tough enough, that who THEY are as a person will never live up to this society’s expectations. That anything beyond the mindless pursuit of material possessions and celebrity were childish and that if you didn’t conform well you’re just a loser.

      I’m tired man. I’m almost 30 and this is the type of shit I’ve had to deal with for my whole life. Good men are the ones with ethics, courage and conviction that usually leads them down different roads then the rest of the boys that populate the news and the club scenes.

      • Just to to add in a society based on competition is it any wonder that this culture produces these boyish hyper-masculine violent types that go in a shoot up movie theaters or high schools? Since so many young men are brought up in single parent households they are usually influenced by the media which is saturated with violence and war. All this violent popular culture that teaches men that violence empowers them, that power, greed and selfishness is a virtue. It just blows my mind when people say “well how could a young man do such a thing?” easy, cause he is a byproduct of a nihilistic hateful petty society.

    • “I think the reason it takes so long for guys to grow up is because society doesn’t place very high expectations on young men. In contrast to young women who have a lot of expectations placed on them. “Boys will be boys” is the kind of attitude that make young men act so juvinile. Maturity and respect need to be emphasized with young men the same way it is with youung women. I realize that there is a neurological component that makes women naturally mature faster, but that’s not an excuse, it just show how much more important it is to place such emphasis on young men.
      Read more at http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/where-all-the-good-guys-are/#AD4R96hYdcY33f7A.99

      I wholeheartedly agree with you S-Cruz there are far less expectations placed on men especially looking at half these so-called celebrities cheating on their wives/partners as if there was no tomorrow. It seems now to be the norm but what angers me the most is that these women are quite happy, or should I say make teh conscious decision to accept their men’s cheating, philandering ways and blatant disrespect for the lifestyle. The issue added to society not placing enough responsibilty, respect and expectations upon men but that women, too are not placing enough value on their own worth and allowing themselves to be defined by their man’s bad treatment of them and worse still accepting it. We all have a part to play. Me? Well I’m still searching for Mr. Right!.

      Please check out my blog for new book Mr Wrong ” a humorous and insightful exploration into why some women continually choose Mr Wrong and how to set out on a path to Mr Right.” There are excerpts from the book, views and perspectives from men and women as well as other women’s stories ad you can even vote for your favourite Mr Wrong Sketch. I would love to hear your views and pointers froma male perspective and so would so many other women!
      Please see my Calling All Men1 section.

      http://dingdongitsmrwrong.wordpress.com/share-your-stories/calling-all-men/

      • Wow, comparing celebrities to normal men and implying normal men don’t have high expectations placed on them? Um, when you earn millions and have a large fanbase you can get away with far more shit. Do you think Joe the Plumber gets treated like a king after cheating on his wife?

        I can easily say and give reasons why women have less expectations placed on them, hell I have seen so many young women hit men with NO ONE batting an eyelid, women who are controlling and demanding but the men are putting up with it because they now believe that is what women are like. Reverse the genders and the guy would be given the world of hurt legally or physically.

    • I agree! I have two brothers & they were always very mature & respectful of women; not the immature boorish male. I think it has a lot to do with what society & family allows in male behavior. I like this author & it is so nice to actually see a male’s viewpoint that doesn’t glorify disrespecting women or making them into a sex object. I LOVE when a man has courage to do that! If I ever choose to get married, it will be to a man like that! :)

  3. Nick, mostly says:

    I sit here wondering how many Good Men there are in the world, because I have two conflicting experiences. On the one hand, nearly all of my friends and acquaintances are good men. They are considerate, respectful, kind and dedicated. On the other, I hear women who come here and complain about all of the assholes out there, that nearly every guy they date is a cad or a boor. I could dismiss their reports except I know a couple of those guys, and I wouldn’t want to date them. So I look at these two classes of men and I wonder which is the exception and which the rule.

    • So I look at these two classes of men and I wonder which is the exception and which the rule.
      Neither.

      Just like nearly any other group or walk of life there are good men and there are bad men.

      Let’s flip this. If you were wondering about how many good women there are would you be wondering whether the good women or the bad women were the rule?

      • Nick, mostly says:

        Let’s skip the hypothetical – yes, yes I do wonder which is the rule and which is the exception for women. The women I know in my life, in the main, don’t match the stereotypes I hear complained about by men. Some of my female friends have been the type that pursued and initiated, they’ve chosen men who aren’t the so-called “alphas” (and by using that term I am not conceding the concept). None of them are in it for the money, some have married men of lower education or socio-economic standing. And yet, as in my question about men, I have certainly run across women who fit the stereotype. So what I question about both is whether my experience of being surrounded by good men and women is simply selection bias, or if our stereotypes are grossly exaggerated in both cases.

        • I appreciate the answer. With mileage varying and all that it’s my experience that asking such questions about women are off limits while it’s open season on men.

          I’m willing to wager that at least sometimes it’s selection bias. I mean if one had a choice to be in the company of good people or bad people (regardless of other characteristics) they would probably choose good people.

          But at times it may be exaggeration. When you hear of other people’s experiences of dealing with bad people there may be some exaggeration of just how bad people can be and how many of there are. I think we see in this in how often the “______ aren’t all like that!!” bit comes up.

          • John Schtoll says:

            I think selection bias or “thru my eyes bias”. I had experience once of listening to a woman describe her asshole of an ex boyfriend, except that I also saw exactly what she did during the relationship and how she treated him. To hear her talk, everything that went wrong in their time together was his fault and of course she had dozens of examples to show. Problem was, most the the examples were stuff SHE did not him. Her friends (my wife included) just salavated at ever word, gave her full support and encouragement for each revelation. I sat their quietly for a few minutes and finally said “But , gail, you did most of those things not him, and then started to list the things she had done, and when she had done them. The look on those faces was priceless, they had to own up to the fact that they all knew it was BS as well but since they were girlfriend, they couldn’t or wouldn’t say anything.

            Whenever I hear a woman complain about her ex, that scene comes to mind and I take what they say with a huge grain of salt.

            • It can definitely be a back and forth, John. Some people just tend to bring out the worst in each other. What seems like a good match-up often isn’t. I have an ex who was extremely abusive, physically and emotionally (he sent me to the hospital once, and often gleefully fed on my insecurities). At the same time, it took me a while to truly commit. Although always honestly, I was still experimenting with my ‘wild side’ and had a large wandering eye. His abuse and my actions created a loop of hatred between us. Each one fed the other. I complain to my friends about his abuse and I’m sure he complains to his friends about my sluttiness. He might not be an asshole as a person, but he was an asshole to me. I might not be a bitch as a person, but I was a bitch to him. We treat the other people in our lives, romantic or not, much better than we treated each other. Both of the complaints we make are still legit.

            • @ Aya That’s a pretty honest assessment. It validates something I believe in, which is that we should be honest about how we engage in our lives….from that perspective individual actions & thoughts are far more important than how we are typecast by gender roles. Not that we aren’t aware, but that it doesn’t have to be the basis for our actions.

  4. There is so much wrong with this piece that it’s difficult to see where to begin.

    Let’s start with the stereotypes:

    ” There are ways in which females are smarter than males, they make connections between themselves and others and the elements of their world more rapidly than males do. Females take into consideration the potential results of their actions before males do. ”

    I watched this stereotype terrorize my brother throughout most of his primary education. He was always interested in engineering (he’s in a PhD program now in chemical engineering), and loved to tinker with things. When he was in 4th grade he actually designed his own water pistol, went to Home Depot and bought the necessary parts, and then built it. Did I mention it was chemically powered? He used a baking-soda and vinegar reaction to build up pressure and then shoot a stream of water 50 yards.

    There is no way to construct such a device without a keen understanding of “actions produce results.”

    He failed to receive any recognition for his abilities at that time. Math and science were 2 classes out of 6 that he was required to take, and his other teachers usually thought he was “below average.” When one of them found out he was later accepted into a prestigious PhD program, they couldn’t understand why.

    Boys develop every bit as quickly as girls do, we simply don’t label their developments as “progress.” The girl who sits still for 30 minutes is praised, the boy who builds a ramshackle go-kart is punished for making trouble.

    But there’s a second stereotype here, one that’s far more insidious:

    Girls are every bit as callous as boys; they’re simply forgiven for it. I know many women who were convinced that every man who didn’t want them “must be gay,” and I also know many who actively creep-shame. None of this is punished by society, it is forgiven and accepted. So when a young man says “She probably needs to get f–ed” we chastise him, as this piece does, but when his female counterpart responds to the question “Can I buy you a drink?” with “You look like a pedophile, get away before I call the bouncer,” we accept that she’s allowed to do this.

    Then we get to the next problem: framing.

    Early on in my academic career I signed up to study economics because it offered what no other social science could offer: objective results.

    Want to demonstrate something in economics? Develop a testable hypothesis, gather the data, run the regression. That’s it. We’ll know if the hypothesis was right or wrong once we’re done.

    When I studied other subjects I had a great deal of trouble at first, until I realized that in most non-math-based classrooms, “truth” is code for “whatever the professor believes.” So, if I took a Gender Studies class, my final exam better have references to “patriarchy” and “oppression” and so forth, even if I didn’t believe any of it, or else I would get a C despite doing all the reading and putting a great deal of effort into my work.

    So when we see a story framed in a college classroom, and we’re told that a man who objected (though I will concede laughter is a weak method of objecting) to the material presented, the following shaming of the objector doesn’t prove much: it serves only to demonstrate the groupthink present in non-empirical studies.

    Finally, let’s look the most basic problem: the use of wedge issues to define conservatives as “not good.”

    I absolutely believe that conservatives can be good men. By using straw men arguments, the author is seeking to undercut this. Marginal tax rates, balancing the budget, deregulation, forget all of that! We’re only going to examine wedge issues in an attempt to drive a wedge between the idea of “good” and the idea of “conservative.”

    Being a good man means standing for what you believe in, and doing the best you can. It does not mean belonging to the correct fan club.

  5. Many years ago, I had a boss like the author. He had two grown daughters and always bent over backwards to help the women. In contrast, he did not do a damn thing to hep the men out. I always felt it was because he had daughters.

    I just wonder if you had a son or two if you would be on this wagon? I have a son and am clearly biased in his direction. Perhaps it is because I come from a family structure steeped in patriarchy, four generations deep.

    While clearly I do not condone vulgar language and other anti female comments and behavior, has it ever dawned on you that many women seem to love these type of men? Should not women be the ones making the most noise and beating the drums? We men can help. But, it IS their battle too!

    • Us women do beat our drums & it is SO nice when we see a few good men stand by us & help! I absolutely hate those types of men & find them repulsive. I often am made to feel strange or the only woman in the world who feels this way by women & men! But I’m not a sheep & think for myself. Many women & men are conditioned by society to accept what they don’t like. I also respect myself.

  6. My karate sensei talks a lot like your “friend”….and he rants and raves about various ethnic groups and certain political views….and yet, I feel like he is one of the closest people to me….he just gets me sometimes when no one else does…he can tell by how I perform my karate how much coffee I have had that morning and what kind of day I have had….

    I probably disagree with 97.8% of his political views and opinions on minorities, and yet, I know if someone tried to follow me in the parking lot at night or tried to hurt me in any way, he would take care of that predator in a few seconds….I don’t try to argue politically with him…the karate dojo is really not the place for it…I figure my job is to just listen to him air out his frustrations and anxieties and his health worries….He invited me to his baby shower this coming weekend (he is expecting twin girls!)….and I am honored by the invitation…I think he will try his best to be a good man, husband, and father (despite all the bad stuff in his past) and I will support him…

    • John Schtoll says:

      Hmmm Leia: Did I just mis-read what you said or did you just say that your Sensei really isn’t a very nice guy but you will still be around him because of his ‘white knight’ status. Really , is that what you just said.

  7. John Schtoll says:

    To the OP: You are preaching to the choir, society believes what you believe and YET, a 16 year old girl who has sex with an older boy (17,18,19 ish) is considered to be a victim because the boy knows better and took advantage of his helpless victim.

    We have so many ‘experts’ telling us that girls mature faster than boy, that girls are ‘smarter’ than boys and yet we still pass laws and have ‘society rules’ that says that girls are always helpless victims who are the mercy of same age or even younger boys.

    For example in Canada a girl can have an abortion at any age without parental consent or permission because she is old enough at 12/13 to make those decisions for herself, yet this same girl was raped because she isn’t old enough to make the decision to have sex, once again reducing her to helpless victim. I just wonder about this, why are women (and girls) so immature that they can’t make these decisions for themselves but when ever talk gets around to who is more mature , it is always girls.

    Is this just another example of “Making women clap”

  8. Jamie Iredell says:

    Feels like you kinda missed the point: the stereotypes and simple dichotomy of political ideologies are meant to highlight the fact that extremes are what make media headlines, or are what people tend to talk about. No one talks about moderate, average, everyday people who don’t say such divisive things because that’s boring. It could’ve just as easily alluded to male figures who advocate collective farming, or something equally uber-leftist. I’m not sure what you mean by “shaming.” As you concede, in an academic environment, shouldn’t all participants have the opportunity to voice their ideas w/out ridicule? All she asked for was an apology, and to be treated with respect. Hardly seems like “shaming.” And, as for non-empirical study: well, yes, that’s kind of a part of the world, right? You know, like dealing with humans? It’s not so empirical as engineering, for example, and that’s the way the cliched cookie crumbles. One would object to your idea of “group think” in that, taking the U.S. as a group, women are underrepresented, underpaid, devalued, and told by some what to do with their ideas and bodies. If anything, a “feminist” perspective is a group outlier, not the norm. Yes, conservative men are for the most part “good” men, and ideas such as marginal tax rates, balancing the budget, and deregulation are all classical fiscal conservative ideals that are valuable. But that’s not what the media cares about today, at least based on a very personal facebook wall (as is the situation in this short piece). That alternative seems to be misogyny, xenophobia, religious intolerance, racism, and warmongering. That’s not the conservatism of my father, for example, a man wholly “good,” because talking about such “good men” is just blah.

    • In general economics is a measure of human behavior. If you cannot develop a testable hypothesis and test it all youre doing is conjecture. Mike is talking about performing the bare basics of rigor.

  9. Jamie Iredell says:

    Wow, sounds like when it comes “where all the good guys are,” they are certainly NOT reading The Good Men Project, based on some comments. And that couldn’t be more ironic, since some readers equate rape and abortion. Rape has nothing to do with any age, dude. Rape is rape; and it is, simply, a crime. Abortion, however, involves choice and is not–nor should be–a crime. And neither of these things are “making women clap,” nor should they make anyone happy. The point is that when you’re an all right guy, no one cares, and that’s the big shame, the thing this short piece is trying to point out. What you should try to do is be a good guy. Who cares what “society” says about “boys” and “girls.” You’re a big boy; you know that rape is wrong. And I’m sure you’re smart enough not to have unprotected sex when you don’t want to have children, so abortion shouldn’t be an issue either. See, the thing is: women have been dealing with those questions since they were twelve or thirteen, back when you were still gumming Big League Chew.

    • Uh, Jamie…”Dude” , I don’t need you or anyone else trying to enforce what makes me “A Good Man”. These people who are responding with criticisms to the article are only exercising their right as citizens to point out the inconsistencies and generalizations in it, of which it is rife.

      Jamie: “Who cares what “society” says about “boys” and “girls.””

      So you are ambivelant to the fact that we have serious double-standards enforced when it comes to rights and responsibilities? That somehow, girls and women are blameless victims while men are given hoops to jump through in order to prove their decency?

      Jamie: “You’re a big boy; you know that rape is wrong.”

      Yes I do. But thanks for the shaming language again and the condescending snark. I needed it.

      Jamie: ” See, the thing is: women have been dealing with those questions since they were twelve or thirteen, back when you were still gumming Big League Chew.”

      I’ll ignore your little tough guy routine on the last line and add that men have also been dealing with questions and unreasonable expectations since they were twelve and thirteen. It stinks for both genders.

    • John Schtoll says:

      Jamie, I was talking about statutory rape which is a choice, a choice that the law says the girl is too young to make at the same time she is more than old enough to make a choice to have an abortion.

      This is the double standard of which I speak.

      And BTW, if you are going to comment on something I said at least have the common courtesy to read what I said , I never said she was raped in the sense of being FORCED to have sex, but it was called rape because she wasn’t old enough to make the decision to have sex.

    • John Schtoll says:

      BTW, Statutory Rape (which is what I was talking about) has everything to do with age. If fact, age is the ONLY factor.

      BTW, Nice insult to me (and others). Not sure how that got thru moderation.

    • “Rape has nothing to do with any age, dude. Rape is rape; and it is, simply, a crime. ”

      Rape is not rape, apples are not apples and murder is not murder. There are only particulars in this world….not perfect exemplars. Rape is a shortcut concept that describes a group of different situations. Different people with different perspectives will disagree on what belongs to the group and what doesn’t. By saying “rape is rape” you are engaging in sophistry, abusing the mental shortcuts we all use to make a statement that is misleading and wrong.

    • “There are ways in which females are smarter than males, they make connections between themselves and others and the elements of their world more rapidly than males do. Females take into consideration the potential results of their actions before males do. ””
      Are there ways men are smarter than women? Are you trying to suggest women mature earlier or that they’re smarter?

      “Wow, sounds like when it comes “where all the good guys are,” they are certainly NOT reading The Good Men Project, based on some comments.”
      Does a good man make sexist comments?

      “And I’m sure you’re smart enough not to have unprotected sex when you don’t want to have children, so abortion shouldn’t be an issue either.”
      Quite a lot of men are raped by women though, yet those men can and do get forced to pay child support. Unless I am mistaking who you’re aiming this at? Abortion and reproductive rights are issues for everyone…? *Confused*

  10. Peter von Maidenberg says:

    Be dominant at any and all costs. Good guys don’t always win, and guys who don’t win are not good.

    Accept all contradictions in your role without complaint or help.

    Never be cruel, mocking, callous or petty – unless a higher purpose demands it.

  11. I think oftentimes, women are enablers to the behavior of your friend from school. The “she needs to get f*cked* thing, and worse. A lot of women want to be seen as ‘cool’ and ‘one of the guys,’ so they sit by and laugh at rude comments, bad rape jokes, derogatory comments, and things that just dowright make them feel uncomfortable. I’ve been there, for sure. I have a lot of male friends. When I was younger and had just started to form relationships with men (late teens-early 20s), I sat around and listened (and fake laughed) to them say a lot of nasty things so that I could be the cool chick. A lot of the guys who say the uncomfortable things aren’t even bad people, but if there’s even one guy who’s crude and loud, it brings something out in the other guys. In my mid 20s, I don’t have as much patience for that, nor the need to fit in, but I do see a lot of young women who do and who get validation when a guy calls them awesome because they agreed with something machismo-like.

    • Great comment! I see this all the time too! Too add to this, I also want to say that I see many women over-sexualizing themselves, or doing degrading things because they get validation from men for it, instead of demanding respect. And it goes along with that trying to be cool & one of the guys attitude. For example, I see girls being ok with strip clubs because they wanna seem cool, but in reality its degrading & disgusting.

  12. many of us straight guys are still looking for a decent normal woman today, especially one that doesn’t CHEAT.

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