A response to the argument of Schroedinger’s Rapist and an examination of anti-black racism.
This morning I made a reference to the fact that men are often assumed to be potential rapists as an example of how sexism negatively affects men as well as women. The argument, commonly referred to as “Schroedinger’s Rapist”, goes something like this: because you can’t know for sure if the stranger approaching you in a dark alley or other unsafe place is a rapist or not, it is generally a good idea to be on your guard. Men can enhance their interactions with women by being aware of this mindset, and adjusting their own behaviour accordingly.
I have often heard from people making an anti-feminist argument that Schroedinger’s Rapist is profoundly sexist and unfair. After all, most men do not rape – why should every man be treated like a rapist? Isn’t that discrimination? How can you claim to be opposed to sexism, yet promote a fundamentally sexually prejudicial idea? The next step is often to draw parallels to racism – is it fair to treat all black people as potential criminals simply because, statistically speaking, there are more black criminals than white ones? Isn’t that racist?
As much as I hate it when white people use anti-black racism as a cudgel with which to beat other people, I can understand the conundrum as it is expressed. The problem with it (and the reason why it’s so bothersome to hear white people talk about anti-black racism) is that it fails to address the question in a meaningful way. To demonstrate what I mean, I’d like to share a couple of personal anecdotes from my own life. I’ve never shared these stories with anyone before, and I’m not sure why because there’s nothing particularly embarrassing about them, and they’re extremely useful in this context.
♦◊♦
When I was in high school, I was the de facto manager of my string quartet. We were gaining a bit of a reputation – we were pretty good, and young people are a novelty – and had picked up a lot of gigs playing weddings. One particular evening, I was supposed to meet the bride-to-be at her church. I had been hanging out at my friend’s house, and was walking from his place to the church. Unhappily, I realized that I was running a bit late – very unprofessional – so I decided to pick up my pace. It was cool outside, so I had my hoodie up.
I was trucking along at a fairly decent pace when I noticed an older woman ahead of me on the street. At first I didn’t pay any attention to her, as my intent was on making my appointment. However, as I drew closer, she became more visibly agitated, constantly looking over her shoulder and speeding up. There was no way she was going to walk faster than me, though – I was way taller than she. When I was about 50m away, she suddenly broke to the right and crossed the road – over 6 lanes of high-speed traffic. I thought it was an unusual move, considering we were nowhere near a crosswalk.
Then it finally occurred to me (when I noticed she had crossed back over once I was safely past her) – she didn’t see someone in a hurry to get to church – she saw a young black kid motoring toward her with no safe haven in sight. She took the risk of running out into the road rather than assume that I wasn’t trying to assault her. I remember that quite clearly, because it was the first time that I realized that I was a frightening sight to strangers.
♦◊♦
Years later I was working for a friend of mine who was doing his PhD thesis on perceived access to park facilities. I, along with my friend Suzie (not her real name), had to canvas the neighbourhood, going door to door and asking people to fill out surveys about their level/type of outdoor activity. After a few streets, I noticed that Suzie’s refusal rate was much lower than mine. Waterloo (where we were) is not exactly a cosmopolitan hub of multiculturalism, and the area we were in was populated by mostly older white people.
Thinking back to my traffic-dodging friend, I asked Suzie to go back to some houses that I’d had trouble with – people closing the door in my face or saying ‘no’ before I finished my sales pitch. Much as I suspected, blonde and 5’5″ Suzie was able to obtain consent from a number of people who had said no to me. This wasn’t about how I was dressed – we were both wearing identical t-shirts and jeans – this was about a huge black dude showing up at your door unexpectedly and asking questions. I learned to knock and then take several steps back from the door so as not to startle people.
One more story. Because I prefer to be able to knock off early from work, I start my day at around 7:45. This means I have to leave the house pretty early in the morning. There are often young women walking around my neighbourhood with their dogs and in their pyjamas. It’s often pretty dark at 7 am, especially in the winter. Despite my size, I am a particularly light stepper, and because my winter coat is black, I am not terribly visible. After scaring the bejezus out of my neighbours by coming up behind them completely unexpected, I have learned to start shuffling my feet when walking behind someone – giving them an auditory clue that I am there and approaching.
♦◊♦
Now there are two ways I could react to these encounters. I could rail against people for being racist and sexist and size-ist (if that’s a thing) – I’m so gentle and warm and loving! How dare they act as though I’m not? That’s one way – and it’s the stupid way. The other way is to recognize that while I strongly dislike the fact that people see me as dangerous because of how I look, it is up to me to decide what to do with that information. If I don’t care about spooking my neighbours, I don’t have to shuffle my feet – let them deal with their fright. But if I do care, then I have to find some way of mitigating that fear so we can coexist harmoniously.
Bringing this example home, men in the freethought movement have a decision to make. They (we) can rail against the hypocrisy of claiming to be anti-sexist whilst engaging in sex-based prejudicial behaviour, or we can recognize that if we want to be accommodating to women we have to make some adjustments to how we behave. It comes back to the central question: do we want women to be more comfortable? If not, then we should say so explicitly – “we don’t care about your comfort, toots! Nut up or shut up!” On the other hand, if we do care, then we can’t simply maintain the status quo of behaviour and berate women for being afraid of rape. That doesn’t solve any problems.
The other point I want to make here, which goes back to my objection to anti-black racism being used as a rhetorical device by those who will never face it, is that black people engage in tons of behaviours to make white people feel safer. We do this all the damn time. We make accommodations in speech, behaviour, dress, mannerism, conversation topic – a wide diversity of adjustments that we make in the presence of our white friends. We want them to feel comfortable around us, and we accept the inherent racism of the need for such changes. The fact that you rail against its manifest unfairness is indicative of the fact that you have no idea we’re doing it – which means, in turn, that we’re doing it well. Until I am convinced that you actually understand anti-black racism (which would take quite a bit of doing), I don’t appreciate being deputized into your anti-feminist screed in this way.
♦◊♦
Anyway, this is obviously simply my opinion and personal experience. I personally don’t have a problem with the argument, and I have done my best to illustrate why I think that Schroedinger’s Rapist, while unfortunate, is not unfair. If you disagree, I hope you will explain why in the comments.
TL/DR: I’ve frequently heard people object to the Schroedinger’s Rapist argument as sexist, with anti-black racism used as a counter-example. I reject this comparison because it neglects two important factors: 1) that the issue under discussion is about whether or not we want women to feel more comfortable; and 2) that black people often make similar behavioural adjustments to accommodate the racism of their white friends. I share some personal stories to illustrate this.
Update: Comrade Physioprof has made this excellent observation: “It is not “sexist” for women to view all men as potential rapists, because (other than in prison) men possess the privilege of being subject to a vanishingly small likelihood of being raped by either men or women, while women are subject to a substantial likelihood of being raped by men. In contrast, it is “racist” for white people to view all black people as potential criminals, because (as far as I can discern from available crime statistics) white people are the ones who possess the privilege of being less likely to be crime victims than black people, and they are more likely to be victims of crimes committed by white people than by black people.”
Update 2: Greg Laden offers another perspective on this issue.
Originally appeared at FreeThoughtBlogs.com.
—Photo kaizat /Flickr
About Crommunist
Vocalyze
“It is not “sexist” for women to view all men as potential rapists, because (other than in prison) men possess the privilege of being subject to a vanishingly small likelihood of being raped by either men or women, while women are subject to a substantial likelihood of being raped by men.”
According to the CDC’s 2010 survey, 1.1 % of men and 1.1% of women were subject to forced or attempted forced intercourse in the last twelve months.
80% of the men were victimized by women.
Apparently male victims of female rapists are to be continually ignored minimized and mocked. The fact that often no one will believe them which might make the vast difference in the stats he used vastly exaggerated is something we are just to ignore. Heaven forbid we see women as anything other than victims.
The irony is though he is against people using the black experience to justify arguments but then uses male victims in much the same way….
You must have a really low opinion of women, and your white friends. Basically you say to yourself, “these people are more comfortable being racist and sexist so I better accommodate that”. Did that old woman give you the idea that she was comfortable? Are people who are racist comfortable around black people? You are basically talking about feeding a psychosis here. If you actually had the best intentions towards your friends whether white men or women, you’d challenge their prejudices instead of pandering to them.
Now I can see that if you are in a position of powerlessness then you’re not going to make a lot of fuss but with your friends? What happens when they read this piece? “Oh hey guys I figured you were all way too immature and racist / sexist to be able to take the real me so I sort of toned it down for you. That’s what you all would want isn’t it?”
You’re being patronising.
But certainly not consistent in it. Here you are telling us all that as a black dude you constantly go out of your way to avoid us white people knowing how racist we’re being. Yeah thanks for that. But then in the next paragraph you pull this race card from out of your behind and try to tell us all that only black people can make analogies based on race.
Really? So now you’re the metaphor police? Can you tell me if I have to have actually played baseball before I can say “I got to first base”? I wouldn’t want to offend any baseball players.
“my objection to anti-black racism being used as a rhetorical device by those who will never face it”
and
“I don’t appreciate being deputized into your anti-feminist screed in this way.”
Well tough luck. You don’t get to control my thinking or my vocabulary. I find it offensive that you actually tried frankly. A rank ad hominem. I know you think about this stuff on your blog so I have to wonder why you went there. You knew it was a weak argument. Well if you don’t then feel free to explain why you think that argument actually holds any water.
At any rate in this article you are the one drawing the analogy between race and sex. You admit at one point that, “We want them to feel comfortable around us, and we accept the inherent racism of the need for such changes”. So presumably you also think that when a man does the same thing for women it is inherently sexist? It seems you may have deputized yourself there.
“black people engage in tons of behaviours to make white people feel safer. We do this all the damn time”
Like what? That would have been interesting. The stuff you did mention is typical stuff men have to do for women. It seems like this claim is a key part of your case and sort of went missing….
That was meant to be a reply to the article.
Woot! The Crommunist bringing the awesome to the GMP! Glad to see you here, man.
And yeah, I do that too. I do it every time I overhear coworkers accuse atheists of perpetrating the “War on Christmas” and I say nothing to my defense. I do it whenever an entitled-male-douchebag treats me like I have stupid lady-brains and I just smile and let it go. Sometimes I’ll say something, but sometimes I just want to get through a day of work without risking my employment status. Sometimes I just want to buy a loaf of bread at the grocery store without any undue hassle.
Sometimes we make concessions in the interest of peace at the expense of justice.
Don’t use “peace over Justice” as some wizard of OZ curtain. There’s a big difference between enablement, compassion, indifference and economic survival! Maybe the Crommunist should straighten his hair and lighten his skin while he’s at it just so “certain” groups can feel more “comfortable” Waddya think?
Ha! You made the error in assuming I don’t know what it’s like. I’m transgender. I have to pretend to be something I’m not all the fucking time in order to merely get by in life. I’m not saying it’s just (oh hell no!), but I do it because I can’t make the world accommodate me merely by raging against it.
Ha! and you made the error that I didn’t consider “being in the closet” when I wrote economic survival! Crom ain’t acting like he does to “get by in life”. You proved my point.
So say I go to the bathroom. My androgynous appearance basically means I don’t have a good choice. I shuffle off to the ladies’ room to sit while I pee. My concessions include running through as quickly as possible to avoid being seen, not coming out of the stall till it’s all clear, and attempting to act girly. Less frequently I visit the men’s room, and it’s the same, with extra eye-contact avoidance. Why? TRANSGENDER PEOPLE IN RESTROOMS ARE SCHRODINGER’S PERVERT. Yes, I have the right to bust in there like I own the place. It’s their damn bigotries, not mine. But if I want to be nice, be peaceful, be quick (cuz dealing with people really slows down my day), I just concede to their prejudices and be done with it.
I wouldn’t care if a woman, man, transgender? (is that the non offensive term?) came into the male toilets, it’s not like we all hold hands and dance. Male toilets are generally extremely quiet, no eye contact though. I don’t get the whole big hangup society has with male and female toilets, what’s the biggest difference? Urinals and sanitary bins? I don’t get how people can freak out if someone goes to the wrong toilet, especially if they use the cubicle.
Yup. What you have to go through to ensure your daily survival/safety against bigotry and what Crommunist decides to do to make bigots feel better isn’t comparable.
Not the same. As I said to him above I could understand it if he was afraid for some reason to be a tiny tiny bit provocative. But firstly he’s black and the idea of raising concerns about race in a group of liberals isn’t exactly terrifying. I doubt that’s true of transgendered issues, is it? Secondly he said he did this with his friends. Not strangers
You’re the man. I do some similar things for women. I believe I was referred to as pathetic by a pseudo-feminist at the time I mentioned it. Whatever…Personally it’s no sacrifice for me since I see women as just people. I have no desire other than to make a group of people less fearful in their lives. I think I understand why some men might have an issue with this. Thanks for making the sacrifice and being a leader. That’s what leaders do.
I think this is pure BS. But let me see how far you want to push this in the pretense that you’re being consistent. The principle you are suggesting here is that minorities never raise any concerns about prejudices and always act so as to minimise any discomfort by the majority. They should always keep up the pretense that nothing is wrong and never point out anything the majority is unknowingly doing.
I guess I’d call that “servility” although you’re calling it “sacrifice”.
So for example you’d want handicapped people to be “sacrificing” for the rest of us in this manner would you?
No, you have it backwards. We should be sacrificing for handicapped people. Get the picture?
So why does it work one way for the handicapped and another for black people and men?
Love love love your compassionate take on this….compassionate for all involved in this broken world we are dealing with…compassion for yourself put in a crappy situation…It’s exemplary. When I rant (and I do) about men showing other (younger men) what it means to be human online and in person…this is the kind of post I hope to see. Bravo and THANK YOU.
Years (and years) ago, before cumulative trauma caught up to me, I used to run, frequently down country roads. As I overtook women, I always shuffled my feet, coughed, and if I’d had a cowbell, I’d have rung it. Regardless, even if I crossed the road to be on the far side, the aforesaid overtakee would indicate complete cluelessness until I was up even with her and would jump as if a gun had gone off in her ear. This, it should be said, was before earphones or plugs were small enough to run with. That aside, you don’t have to be black to be making efforts to be non-threatening. I picked my granddaugher, four and a half, up at pre-K today. She’d made a “facebook”, a sheet with four faces; happy, sad, angry, silly. I asked her what my face was. “Mad”, she said. That’s just the way it is and I, white and mad-looking (ask my granddaughter) , make such accomodations constantly. It’s the polite thing to do. You don’t have to be grinding down your knees in pursuit of a seven minute mile, either. It happens all the time. Mostly we don’t think anything of it except for figuring the tactical situation and distances and rate of overtake or whatnot. The whether is a given.
WRT Christmas. I know it’s not the holy thing to do, but some people…. I enjoy telling them “Merry Christmas” a little too much.
I just love this piece. So much, as pointed out above, compassion. And also awareness for how busted we all are. So fearful, we so easily judge based on externals (as if with strangers we have anything else to go on) and I really appreciate the post as well as the excellent blog post from Greg Laden. I missed that somehow during all of Elevatorgate and it was interesting to read.
Finally, your paragraph here really struck me “The other point I want to make here, which goes back to my objection to anti-black racism being used as a rhetorical device by those who will never face it, is that black people engage in tons of behaviours to make white people feel safer. We do this all the damn time. We make accommodations in speech, behaviour, dress, mannerism, conversation topic – a wide diversity of adjustments that we make in the presence of our white friends. We want them to feel comfortable around us, and we accept the inherent racism of the need for such changes. The fact that you rail against its manifest unfairness is indicative of the fact that you have no idea we’re doing it – which means, in turn, that we’re doing it well. Until I am convinced that you actually understand anti-black racism (which would take quite a bit of doing), I don’t appreciate being deputized into your anti-feminist screed in this way.”
It will be a lot of digesting, that paragraph. Thank you for it.
Wow. Didn’t seem the slightest bit compassionate to me. How could it? Compassion is treating others’ pain. Not making it so they can’t see the pain they inflict. Julie would you really want a friend of yours to hide from you the fact that you were causing them pain? If you found out they were doing it would your reaction be “Oh THANKS for that, you totally did the right thing”?
Plus too this “compassion” comes with a dark side. Anyone who goes around doing that for others inevitably thinks worse of those he is covering for. Anyone who goes around consciously thinking “and you don’t even realise how racist / sexist you are because I have to cover for you so you won’t suffer the embarrassment of knowing it”. They are holding on to a lot of anger IMO.
That is NOT a good place to be.
Wow. No.
As another poster above pointed out, compassion for the broken fucking world we live in. Compassion in taking the time to reach out and try to offer another viewpoint. Compassion in service, which may or many NOT be called for as a human being. No one should have to feel guilty for their skin, but we’ve built a fucked up world and people are trying to find their way to peace in a wide variety of ways. Sometimes our generousity is a sign that the world is fucked up, yet we offer it anyway.
And as I said….
There is a lot to process and digest in that article especially the paragraph I quoted, David. Because that is a fucking heavy statement that he laid down. Because if it’s true, which I damn well think it is, it’s wrong and means an entire class/group/race whathaveyou of people are basically giving up things so white people can have their white privilege. And I’ve said as much in multiple posts that you’ve been on, that we (usually meaning women and rape but in this case anyone walking alone etc) have the choice here to-
1) not trust anyone
2) trust everyone blindly
3) figure out how to do what we can with available information, both internally and externally and make the best choices we can per situation.
I’ve also said that the whole Schrodingers thing doesn’t mean ALL people are monsters, only that the outside looks just as human as anyone else and so what is anyone to do if ONE CANNOT TELL. Again, the three above points are the choices we have. If we go with the idea that women can rape men, the same issues apply. Men don’t know which women are sociopathic.
And we go with the knowledge that we have at the time and it’s incredibly imperfect.
It’s compassionate that he brought this article, with it’s very very heavy paragraph, which frankly I’d love an entire article about because I think he’s absolutely right, and personally of fucking course I want to know how to help the people in MY life feel more at ease/less pain, and check my own, yes, privilege as a white woman, because I have a lot of it. And I examine it a lot, at work, teaching social justice, etcetctec and still I can’t see all of it and I need to know when it’s damaging someone. I need to give some of it up to help others have more so we are all more equal.
These things need to be pointed out, race, gender etc. I hate that there are good men who feel that women assume the worst of them. I hate feeling stressed on occasion, and yes, I have felt slightly stressed on occasion alone with men I don’t know just because I’m really clear on the physical fact that I’d lose that fight, if there was one. I live with that everyday as a physical reality. Is it in the forefront of my mind? No. Do I know the chances are low of harm? Yes. Does that mean the chances are nil? No. So I do the best I can realizing it’s fucking broken and imperfect.
We live in a broken world and we are dealing with trying to figure it out. With compassion, yes. I’m taking a break from this David, you want to talk to me, email me, but I’m not going to be answering here.
Have you ever felt the same fear you say is justifiable with a man, when you met two women? or one woman who was younger and fitter maybe? Or a woman who had a weapon? Have you ever felt the same way with a single woman who had no weapon but could easily be concealing a gun? Have you felt that way more with men you know as well as with men you don’t (because often an attacker is someone who is an acquaintance)?
Does it not make sense to you that if someone wanted to over power you physically they would come prepared with a weapon for the job? Or that they would size up their victim so they feel good about their chances of success for whatever reason? Even if it is “only” another woman they have that and the element of surprise.
I’m sorry Julie but that argument simply doesn’t stand up to inspection. There’s no rational basis for those feelings. The chances of physical harm are always more than nil.
So compassionate when he said that
“t is not “sexist” for women to view all men as potential rapists, because (other than in prison) men possess the privilege of being subject to a vanishingly small likelihood of being raped by either men or women, while women are subject to a substantial likelihood of being raped by men. ”
When the stats he quoted ignore female on male rape by envelopment. Actually no compassion isn’t the word i would use “hypocritical” is the one.
“Schroedinger’s Feminist’ when there is a feminist around it is best to assume they will minimize and ignore any mans concern and be terrible at statistics.
I’m sorry but I disagree…
I’m also a black male. I’ve also dealt with the discomfort and offensiveness of witnessing some white persons’ uneasiness with encountering me in certainsocial situations. However, I refuse to make any attempts to placate to white people’s sensibilities because of some preconcieved ideas they have about blackpeople.
While I agree that it is unfair to conflate anti-black racism with the message of “Shroedinger’s Rapist” I do so for a different reason. I beilieve that both class and race trump sex (gender) in regards to the social hierarchy (in America especially). While there are some exceptions, in the vast majority of
situations white women are more privileged than black males.
Let me get this out of the way as well. I do understand and do not dispute that women are at much greater risk for sexual assualt.
But, I find it a bit disheartening to suggest that it is my responsibilty to ease white woman’s (or any woman’s or person’s for that matter) suspicions especially if they are already afforded more privilege than I.
I do understand that you can never be certain of a person’s intentions based on their appearance. I aslo understand the fear of dealing with such uncertainties But, at what point should people be held accountable for their own safety and fears whether real or percieved? If it is reasonable if not socially
responsible for me to cross the street when passing a woman walking alone, what measures are reasonable for her to take? Should she not walk alone or not be out by herself so late at night? Isn’t that reasonable and responsible in regards to her personal safety?
I know someone will say that women should be able to go and come as they please, AND THEY SHOULD. It would be ideal in a perfect world. But this is an imperfect world.
I really can’t accept the notion that, as a black man, I should be assumed doubly dangerous because I am black and male.
It’s all about accommodating others’ unfair prejudices and fears in order to make them more comfortable… and thereby leave those prejudices unchallenged. Does that about sum it up, author?
Sorry, not interested.
I enjoyed the article but I think the author is forcing people to make an unnecessary choice. You can view fear based on sexism or racism as unreasonable and unfair while accommodating the people who experience those fears. I agree, it is unfortunate that people hold these views, but those views are unfair and based on ignorance.
Blanket statements that Group A should reasonably fear Group B, whether it is based on *just* sex or race, are still unfair. That people accommodate these fears to live more harmoniously with others doesn’t change that. A man can cross the street, take the stairs, or avoid offering to give a woman a ride knowing these actions would make a woman more comfortable if she has that fear, but the fact she fears him **just** because he is a man is not fair and not reasonable.
There is no need for the false dichotomy of “make women feel more comfortable” vs. “reject the view that all men are (potential) rapists.”
A. Schroedinger’s Rapist isn’t merely “dark and isolated areas”. If you read the original piece, it quickly becomes obvious that some women don’t think men should make them uncomfortable at all, which is an impossible edict in a world where men have to do most of the initiating in terms of relationships.
B. I’m a white person, and I have to make efforts to make black people comfy. Why who woulda thunk it?
Yes, people have to make accommodations to other people to make them comfortable and more accommodations are needed the more different backgrounds the people who are getting together have.
Pretty much agree with everything else.
“It is not “sexist” for women to view all men as potential rapists, because (other than in prison) men possess the privilege of being subject to a vanishingly small likelihood of being raped by either men or women, while women are subject to a substantial likelihood of being raped by men.”
I have to say I disagree with this. Its basically saying that since women are more likely to be raped its not sexist to presume that all men are potential rapists. This is an attempt to say that its not sexist to presume that all men are potential rapists based on nothing more than the fact they are men.
Rapists make up a small portion of the male population yet its supposed to not sexist to presume that any man can be a rapist simply because he is a man? I really don’t see anyone trying to defend this type of statement about any other group. “A small portion of ____ are ____ but its not -ist to presume that all _____ are potential ____”.
And I think this is why people reached for black people as criminals as a counter example.
To me its a matter of motivation. To me there is a big difference between, “I better keep an eye on him until I get a read on him.” and “He might be a rapist!”
(And also I have a small quibble with the name of this theory. The original Schroedinger’s Cat was based around already knowing that we were talking about cat and then the question was whether or not the cat was alive or dead. It irks me a bit to name is Schroedinger’s Rapist because it sounds like one is starting off knowing its a rapist and then the question is will they attack or not. It would seem to me it should be called Schroedinger’s Man, in which its known its a man but then the question is will the man in question attack or not.
“TL/DR: I’ve frequently heard people object to the Schroedinger’s Rapist argument as sexist, with anti-black racism used as a counter-example. I reject this comparison because it neglects two important factors: 1) that the issue under discussion is about whether or not we want women to feel more comfortable; and 2) that black people often make similar behavioural adjustments to accommodate the racism of their white friends.”
Your two main points are both seriously flawed:
1) It’s not that simple. If women, as a group, have no societal expectation to make ME, as a man, feel more comfortable, why would I be specifically motivated to make women, as a group, more comfortable?
2) Apples and oranges. Mainstream feminist groups, as well as traditionalists and other groups, demand that men strive to accommodate the needs of women. If you wish to adjust your behavior as a black man to accommodate your racist white friends, that is your choice. But there are no widely powerful groups in modern society asking that of you.
Do you want to know why Schroedinger’s Rapist is so offensive it’s wrong? Because the majority of men DO NOT RAPE. We have recent stats showing similar levels of rape and sexual abuse between the genders, 12 month stats showing 40% female rapists, 60% male rapists yet we still continue to push this prejudice along.
(All victims of abuse in any form are excused, this following bit is for those who haven’t been harmed)
If you want to teach everyone to trust their intuition then go ahead but it’s painting an entire group responsible for the actions of the few, something which annoys feminists when they say Not All Women Are Like That in response to people telling them what the extremists do yet many of those feminists push this socially acceptable prejudice.
How about Schroedinger’s Child Abuser? Fathers should be nervous leaving their kids with their mother, the most likely person to harm their kids. Kids should be afraid of their mothers because they’re most likely to be abused by women. Of course you know the whole racial prejudices I am sure so no point mentioning anymore on that. How about ageism, lets fear 20-40 year olds who are most likely to commit crimes of violence?
Mothers should start adjusting their behaviour to put heir children’s fear at ease around them, they have parental privilege and can abuse much easier due to a culture that is too busy focused on the men as the monsters. Sounds silly doesn’t it, quite frankly the biggest problem is raising women with so much fear in life that they have to avoid these men before they’ve been attacked (I am excluding victims here btw) so that instead of feeling normal, or safe, they feel threatened and scared by all men. Take a look at history, who were the police, the fireman, soldiers, the knights trying to protect the damsels, save the women and children FIRST, don’t hit women, these things are instilled at birth into many men and given the chance many men would tear a rapist apart.
When we start using stats and wondering who to be safe around we play a tricky game, we fear men for violence, we fear mothers for abuse, we fear muslims for terrorism (even though the vast majority by far are quite peaceful like you and I), but hey this is men we’re talking bout. Men with Powerrr, it’s totally acceptable to fear men so much that fathers now are nervous as hell taking their kids to the park because of the dirty looks and ostracization. Cousins can’t even take photos at a soccer game grand final because the player is under 18. This happened to me, I do not feel safe at all with childrens photography due to paranoia and fear over men in particular regardless of the fact I’d hospitalize anyone that tried to harm a kid.
I already watch my actions, i avoid trying to make women feel nervous, I am 6’6 and more scared of them but I go out of my way to ensure they don’t get afraid because I am quite a large man and the size is intimidating. I know we live in a culture that teaches women to jump at shadows where many can’t even relax and get to know a stranger because of the fear they’re a rapist when the most likely person to harm them is a partner or relative. I go out of my way to avoid being NEAR most children because I know the simple accusation of foul play is a death sentence to a man, once that mud sticks it’s got more pulling power than gravity itself.
I am nervous to even try talk to women for fear they’ll get afraid, just how far are men supposed to go to make OTHERS feel safe? Walk around in chains? How about we drop all of the prejudice and start realizing humans for the most part are quite decent, let’s focus on the good and deal with the bad when it happens. It’s sad we have people teach and support Schroedinger’s Rapist whilst we have many of them getting angry when someone tells them to avoid certain areas, umm you’re both teaching fear! Should we teach men that they’re the number 1 target for violence? Men are 4-6times more likely to die from violence, and much of it by other men, should men avoid other men?
We have parents asking for male teachers to be fired from primary schools over fear of men, we have women afraid of men, all this fear and what does it really accomplish? I understand women want men to understand that women are afraid of being abused and raped by them but now it’s time for women to understand the levels of abuse and rape against men even by women are very high as well, many of these men are ignorant to this FACT, so either we start teaching men to fear women too or we all grow up and drop this fear based approach.
I’ve lived in fear all of my adult life and when it gets too much it is a hindrance, all humans should learn to respect others boundaries and do what they can to keep others calm without having to sacrifice too much. Fear is the cause of sooo many problems in the world and we really need to kick it out and bring in some real intelligent discussion on the issues. That guy in the elevator may hurt you, or he might stop others from hurting you, prejudging his actions does what? What will that fear do to you? He might rape you, he might rob you, or he might be your new best friend or the love of your life.
By all means be cautious but teaching automatic fear has got to stop. There are better ways to reduce violence in the world without making people jump at the shadows. Fear and negativity isn’t going to help your life, if you are under attack your body will set your defenses in before you can even think about it so you don’t need to walk around with fear. Life is full of risk but do you really want to miss out on the wonderful things in life because a total stranger you know NOTHING about has a chance of harming you?
And before I am accused of privilege of being a man and thus somehow less fearful in such situations, I have a social anxiety disorder, I am afraid of pretty much every single strange I meet to some degree and especially women due to previous abuse. I’ve seen this fear in me, and in others to varying degree’s and all it does is restrict lifestyles. You don’t need to walk down sniper alley during the Kosovo war without fear, but keep that fear balanced.
“Bringing this example home, men in the freethought movement have a decision to make. They (we) can rail against the hypocrisy of claiming to be anti-sexist whilst engaging in sex-based prejudicial behaviour, or we can recognize that if we want to be accommodating to women we have to make some adjustments to how we behave. It comes back to the central question: do we want women to be more comfortable? If not, then we should say so explicitly – “we don’t care about your comfort, toots! Nut up or shut up!” On the other hand, if we do care, then we can’t simply maintain the status quo of behaviour and berate women for being afraid of rape. That doesn’t solve any problems.”
I agree, this IS the question we should be asking, The question is, at what cost.
To put things in perspective, I am also a “large black man”, I’m over 6 feet tall, black, often dressed in loose fitting jeans a large T shirt and a long black hoodie, and due to my hobbies and work hours, I often find myself in and out of public transit, between early evening and very late at night. I like the shuffling feet example, one of my tricks when I don’t want to be particularly scary is making an effort to say “hay” or smile when entering a liquor store or some such place when its late at night and there is a woman in the room (I live in a tiny college town, LOTS of little white girls).
The way I see it, when I’m walking alone and a pack of white dudes walk up behind me laughing after a night at the bar, I don’t see them nodding at me to let me know I’m safe. When SUV’s full of partying 21 year old girls from campus chuck a slushy at me because I didn’t look up when they shouted at me, the women on the street don’t ask me if I’m OK. When I get in an elevator during the day and a woman gets in after me, they generally don’t nod at me or something so I know they aren’t going to flag security to ask me why I’m in the building. I have frequently had police ask me for my ID in front of my own house because a girl on the other side of the street thought I looked “suspicious”, she never comes over to apologize after the cop walks over to her and explains Its MY house, I’m not robbing it…
But I don’t rage at people for not “working to make me less fearful”… I get over it, because that’s what it means to be an adult, you put your fears in perspective of rationality and you deal.
Frankly, I’m not willing to put the burden of proof on myself just because they (women who believe in Schrodinger’s Rapist, people who racially profile, etc) are uncomfortable. Their defensive responses aren’t justified just because they can’t figure out how to assess the threats in their life. If people want to advocate against the idea that “not walking alone” or “not walking in dimly lit areas” or any of the rest of the “don’t get raped” garbage works in any way (which I support); then they are ALSO going to have to own up to the idea that the world is a scary place and bad things some times happen to good people. All of us have to find ways to balance fear vs real threats to our safety and not let it stop us from living, and I see no reason I should go out of my way to show love and care to somebody who is willing to call me a predator simply by the sight of me.
Schroedinger’s Child Abuser:
Very interesting example actually. Right now, a number of major airlines will not sit an unrelated man next to a child on an aircraft despite the fact that very few (if any) child have ever abused by a strange man on an aircraft. Yet, they have no problem sitting a strange woman next to one. Here is the weird part, a mother is WAY WAY WAY more likely to harm a child on an airplace than a strange man.
As Capt Picard would say “Here is the line, no further”. I will not placate this type of denigration of men as a class.
The very definition of discrimination is treating an individual by the real or perceived characteristics of their group.
The justification, if and when it exists, and if ever, relies on the leaning towards either the real or the perceived. Fear and anxiety are usually and mostly based on the perception of a false positive. The ask here seems to be that we continue to support false positives in order to allay fear and anxiety.
I don’t see any added and/or sustained human comfort in following this path of sorcery. There is no human development down this road.
It’s nice that you want to make people feel more comfortable, but like other commenters here, notably DavidByron, I don’t agree that the steps you are taking are necessary, and in your position I don’t think I would go to the ends you do to make white people comfortable with you. I’ve lived in the South and now I live in a very friendly town where the norm is to smile and exchange a short, New England greeting when we pass on the street. It’s also a college town, so plenty of the young women on the streets aren’t part of this culture. They come from everywhere, and some of them will cross the street to avoid me. I try to have compassion for that one person who will cross away from me, or look uncomfortable, because I know that is a trauma response, not one reasonably based on me and anything she could know about me.
Going out into the world, I try to be the change I want to see in the world. I know it’s not always possible or practical, because we are laboring under two yokes: we live in a sexist, racist society, and I want to make a society that is neither of these. I can hope that my black friends aren’t toning something down for me, that when they share stories with me about their lives, they are trying to connect, and that the rest of their behavior goes along with that too. Sometimes maybe they’re doing exactly as you describe, but it’s not what I’d want for them as my friends, to limit themselves so I don’t have to grow.
Crommunist – you make some interesting points, and from a personal level dealing with your every day interactions with the world they are fine for you. I have to make accommodations myself as a Gay Crippled guy with complexities of racial origins thrown on for good measure.
What I keep seeing is how some have gone beyond the human into dogma and abuse. I also see how some are using ideas to express power, control and be abusive.
Lets take the All Men Are Rapists trope. That has even been changed to read “Only Men Can Stop Rape.”. It has been shifted by dogma from not just a fallacy but into a fallacy that literally makes men responsible for stopping all rape – all rapists – and that included female rapists.
Now lets play that race card and see how it plays out. “All Black Men Are Responsible for Racism” – “Only Black Men Can Stop Racists”. It becomes nonsense – but Over stretched dogma does that.
Schroedinger’s Rapist is a classic “Thought Experiment” – and of course is linked to Schroedinger’s Cat, a thought experiment in dealing with Quantum Mechanics. It highlights incongruity, absurdity but also reality in a frame of existence that is not normal to humans.
I have used the same in the form “Schroedinger’s Cripple” “The assumption being that all disabled people are on the big blue bus, masturbating and licking the windows”. It’s fascinating what happens if you line up some Though Experiments side by side for Comparison and ask people to justify them.
Schroedinger’s Rapist
Schroedinger’s All Black Men Are Criminals
Schroedinger’s Cripple – and the big blue bus
Schroedinger’s Bitch – women are justified in stereotyping all men for personal safety.
Which one’s lead to error and which one’s lead to an acceptable level of error – uncertainty – and stereotyping and offence? Which one’s respect humanity and which one’s degrade?
By logic – if one is offensive and abusive – they all are.
How about Schroedinger’s Bitch – all women will abuse their view of men and assume all men are rapists, not to be trusted and treated with suspicion and it’s justified.
I have had to deal with that one whilst totally innocent, going about my daily business, as a Gay man I have no interest in the ladies – and yet it is seen as wrong for me to be offended if some woman decided to exercise power, as has happened, and publicly claim that I am some form of sexual deviant and aiming at her. All I was doing was standing at a bar waiting to be served and I smiled. Reaction “You’re a Creep”. etc
She even went so far as to claim I had tried to touch her up. I just smiled and told her that If I was going to touch up anyone it would be that rather large hairy and hunky security guard – so she need not flatter herself because she did not float any boats for me! The security guard grinned. P^)
I have to say she had one hell of a shock when I turned it round quicker than she could imagine and dealt with it as Homophobic and Disability Hate Crime …. and she was the one told to leave the venue and not return – ever!
But of course using Schroedinger’s Thought Experiment is just an experiment to see what is acceptable and what is not. But even so, the way such thinking in all forms gets turned from thinking to action is the big issue. How we deal with each other is what counts.
As a disabled man I too get tired of other’s stupidity. Sometimes I deal with it one way and other times I just give it a pass. Take just going to a shop. My local shops have given me quite an opportunity to train the locals. Ever tried to get through a doorway when someone decided to be nice and hold the door – but they actually block your way forward. In my back yard I have had the time to train people out of their assumed good behaviour, and now it does not happen.
On the other had when I’m else where I tell people that they should use the door way first “You’re Quicker Than Me” – so they get out of my way and they think I have done them a favour. Really I should be lecturing them on access rights and the social model of disability, and just how Crippling their faulty mindset is – and how they are the issue and not me.
It can be a bit much when all you are doing is shopping for some new pants – and you have to look forward to the horror of dealing with trying them on in a cubicle designed for a midget contortionist!
We all accommodate – but that is a choice – and it does not make other people’s foolishness, prejudice and antisocial thinking right. We all choose battles looking at the balance of Profit and Return – but that is daily life and working out how to get to work or try on pants. We don’t always have time and even the energy to address the underlying failures.
The net is different – if you are willing to use it wisely. Some will just transfer the every day to the screen – and others say NO and use the screen to address the fundamental underlying equality issues with a view to changing them.
I get where you are coming from in your every day, but I think you are missing a big chance to use that screen in front of you to use the everyday to address a lot more and reach a lot more people.
Dogma can also be accepting the Status Quo and accommodating to it, and failing to use the opportunities that come by to not let sleeping Dogmas lye.
If it was about acknowledging how people react in the presence of someone they perceive as threatening, then fine. The problem is the Schrodinger’s Rapist meme is frequently used to hector men into changing their behaviour, rather than stated as simply a descriptor of how women react in public. Sorry, but I’m not personally responsible for what others project onto me merely because I wear my hood up or have a particular organ between my legs and all I’m doing is walking down the street to get home.
And nothing personal, but this is just one individual’s view. It may well be a more sensible one to take, but I make the Schrodinger’s Black Guy counterargument to highlight the general inconsistency in how people respond to different groups being broadbrushed in this way. I maintain that if instead of Rapist, “Black Guy” or “False Rape Accuser” is substituted in, there’d be uproar. But the former is apparently fine….
My brother and I happened to be driving past a school zone with his dog’s (small terrier)
head out of his passenger window when we passed two school girls roughly 14-16 years of age.
The dog barked:
The girls screamed (excessively) pretended to be so very afraid that they would take to running through backyards to escape.
The entire point being made that as the protected class I could and would be accused on a whim.
Feeding a psychosis indeed!
Feeding an unjust power struggle via societal violence!
Did I mention unjust?
This type of behavior gets easily excused everyday,then we wonder how some adults got so screwed up?
There was a time when good behavior was enforced in the home (daddy home)
and this bad behavior did not spill out into the streets.
Be careful what you tell the young people they are:
For they may become that very thing.
(scared of any shadow)
(entitled to police aggression for no reason)
I’m sorry, but when the author wrote he shuffled his feet the first thing I had thought was :
Did you say “ah shucks boss” too?