It’s time guys stopped seeing ‘The Friend Zone’ as some awful hell where women put men, and bone up on what’s really happening when she says no to sex.
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By Thomas G. Fiffer and Joanna Schroeder
There’s a common myth in the dating advice world that there are only two categories women put the men in their lives into: The Friend Zone and The Bone Zone. Okay, we made up “The Bone Zone” but it’s funny, and it sounds like something you’d read in a dating article, doesn’t it?
But is it true? Are there really only two ways women see guys? As bang-able and not bang-able? And is it true that the defining feature of not bang-able is often that the guy is just too nice? We think not.
The truth is, not everyone wants to bone you—and that’s okay. It doesn’t mean you’re not bone-worthy, and it doesn’t mean she doesn’t like you or value you. She may even find you attractive. All it means is that, for the time being, she doesn’t want to sleep with you, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
So, what should you do when the woman you like and would like to bone just wants to be friends? Well, that’s up to you. But one thing we know for sure you should not do is try to make her want to bone you. Aside from the fact that tricking or talking someone into sleeping with you is coercive, manipulative, and sometimes rapist bullshit, it doesn’t work in the long run. Real relationships are based upon trust, honesty, and authentic compatibility. You aren’t going to find one of those by trickery and cheap PUA tactics, which spread lies like, “The number one reason why most women are content to stay in the friend zone with a man is because he took too long to move his interaction with her in the direction of a relationship.”
Still not convinced? Well, here are 13 good reasons why you should ignore any advice that promises to take you from The Friend Zone to The Bone Zone.
1. You deserve a woman who is enthusiastic about being naked with you.
Ask yourself this: Is convincing someone to like you better than finding a person who totally digs you and can’t wait to commingle your nudity with hers? It’s not better at all. Mutual enthusiasm is the key ingredient to great sex. Hold out for that, because you deserve it.
Hey Joanna, Would you like to bring your beautiful self over and watch a movie tonight? I’ve got a great bottle of wine.
You know, Tom, I just don’t want to bone you.
2. Just because she doesn’t want to bone you doesn’t mean you’re un-boneable or that you’ve done something wrong.
Finding the right person for you isn’t simple. It’s not simple for anyone.
If it were, there wouldn’t be billions of epic love stories, sonnets, poems, Haikus, movies, short films, novellas, cave drawings, and even tattoos about love and heartbreak. This person who doesn’t want to bone you, she just doesn’t feel the same way you do. But you’re still good. You’re still totally bone-able. And you can enter the bone zone, just not with her.
Is it something about me, Joanna? Are you saying I’m not boneable?
No, Tom, I’m not saying anything about your boneableness … boneability … bone-worthiness … whatever. I’m just saying that boning you is not something I want to do right now.
3. She doesn’t have to justify or explain her decision not to bone you.
Asking a woman who’s said she doesn’t want to bone you to give you the reasons is like a woman asking you if that dress makes her look fat. If she answers with total honesty, she’s bound to hurt your feelings, which is something she doesn’t want to do. Remember, she does want to be your friend. So she’ll either find a way to avoid the question, which leaves you hanging, or damn you with faint praise. Either way, it’s a no-win situation.
Joanna, just what it is about me that makes you not want to bone me?
I don’t think I need to explain that. And it’s not that I’m holding back some complaint or negative thing about you. I’m just not into you in that boning sort of way. I do value your friendship, but boning you isn’t something I want or even think about doing.
4. Being angry and whining about being “friend-zoned” reeks of entitlement.
The woman who sees you as just a friend doesn’t owe you sex, no matter how much you like her or how many nice things you do—genuinely or with sex as your motive. And you don’t owe anybody sex, either. Be a woman’s friend because you like her company and want to hang out with her, not because you hope that someday she’ll feel obligated to have sex with you. Sex is never an obligation and always a choice.
You know, Joanna, I think you’re ungrateful. Doesn’t flowers every week for a month get me anything?
The flowers were sweet, Tom, but I don’t owe you anything in exchange for your gift. Especially not sex.
5. There is no good way to trick a woman into wanting to sleep with you.
Not by being nice, not by being an asshole, not by using Jedi mind tricks, not by dousing yourself in panther pheromones. And don’t waste your money on a disgusting PUA program. Even if one of those things did work temporarily, eventually you’d know that she didn’t sleep with you because she liked who you are, but because she liked a character you were playing or a script you followed. And that’s a heavy blow to the heart.
What’s more, getting sex using trickery and PUA-type tactics doesn’t prove you’re worthy of love. It just proves you learned a way to trick women into boning you. Eventually that’ll leave you empty and alone, because it was never who you were and didn’t help you form any authentic relationships.
Hey Joanna, I’m going to be busy later, but I could meet you beforehand for a quick drink (other women want me).
That’s nice, Tom. I’m happy for you and I don’t want to interfere with your plans (I see what you’re doing, and I’m not falling for it).
6. Women are not computers that can be hacked, and there’s nothing hot about a guy trying to break the code to women’s underpants.
PUAs may have figured out men can get laid using a system of making women feel bad about themselves and intrigued by mind games.
But if you’re upset about being “friend-zoned” by a woman you truly care about, you don’t want to use dishonest tactics to manipulate her into bed with you. And you also don’t want to go around firing off pick-up lines like buckshot in a bar, hoping you’ll get lucky and hit something. Head games like these don’t work for finding love. Finding love is a matter of the heart.
You know Tom, that line you used on me is straight out of the PUA handbook. Is getting me—or any woman—in bed more important to you than having a real relationship?
Wow, Joanna. I’m sorry. I had no idea what I said would come across that way.
7. The only dating and relationship advice that will ever work is the kind where you learn how to present your best authentic self.
It’s not that there’s no place for dating advice—there’s always room for improvement. But the only advice that’ll actually help you be happy in a relationship is type that helps you be the best version of the man you already are. Present yourself in a way that shows women exactly what you have to offer, unclouded by any bullshit that doesn’t feel real. Only then will you find someone who loves you for the real you.
I like who you are, Tom. It’s why I value you as a friend.
That means a lot, Joanna. I want more than that from you, but I guess I can’t expect more than that.
8. Solid relationship and dating advice will help you in other areas of your life, too, while tactics based on trickery and manipulation will only help you become more devious.
Truly effective dating advice can teach you how to present your best self to the woman you want to see you as more than a friend. It also has ripple effects. Showing your best self unclouded by false expectations and entitlement can also improve your relationships with friends, family, and employers.
Joanna, is there anywhere I can go for some really great dating advice?
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad freeTom, have you ever heard of The Good Men Project?
9. Just because she wants to be your friend right now doesn’t mean she won’t eventually want to bone you.
No means no, but it may not mean never. But she definitely won’t want to bone you if you’re pissed about being just friends. Anger or entitlement doesn’t move you from the friend zone to the bone zone. Anyone who responds to a “no thanks” like a baby and throws a tantrum is totally not attractive. So grow up and decide whether you can be in this friendship without resentment—or not.
If not, communicate that and be willing to walk way on good terms. Hopefully she’ll understand it may be uncomfortable to be around her with your feelings, and that you may not be able to be close friends anymore.
Joanna, you said not right now? Does that mean you might want to bone me at some point in the future?
I don’t want to say never, Tom, but I also don’t want to lead you on or give you a false impression about my wanting to bone you. It’s always best when we’re honest about how we feel. If it’s hard (no pun intended) for you to be around me knowing you want to bone me and I don’t want to bone you, I’ll understand if you can’t spend time around me or be my friend. I want to respect your feelings.
10. If you give it a chance, you might actually enjoy The Friend Zone.
Being friends with women is actually pretty awesome. Boning is not a requirement to enjoying spending time with women.
So I’m just not your type then?
That’s one way to put it, but that doesn’t mean you’re not someone else’s type. There are probably lots of women who want to bone you.
Can you introduce me to some of them?
11. If being with a woman who is just a friend is painful because you want more, it’s okay to set boundaries for that friendship or just walk away.
If she’s clear with you at the outset that she just wants to be your friend, you shouldn’t hang around and expect something different. If you stay and give, that’s your choice. But only give what’s going to be sustainable to you and not hurt your heart.
I like you a lot, Joanna, so much that it might be too painful to be around you until I meet someone else or get over these feelings.
I can understand that, Tom. Just as you have to let your fantasy about me go, I may have to let our friendship go, too, to be able to respect your feelings.
12. Honesty is the only way into The Bone Zone.
If you don’t want to be just friends with a woman who only wants friendship with you, you can just say “You know, I’m going to be honest, I’m really attracted to you and want to be more than friends. And right now, being just friends isn’t comfortable for me.”
It might be a surprise to her, but there’s a good chance she’ll respect your honesty.
That way, if your friendship ever does progress to something more sweaty and horizontal in nature, you’ll know that relationship has a foundation of honesty.
I was thinking, Joanna, it probably took a lot of nerve for you to just tell me flat out that you don’t want to bone me.
It did, actually, because sometimes men get really angry when a woman says, I just don’t want to bone you. And anger is really unpleasant to deal with. It also doesn’t get you any closer to the bone zone.
So what does get me, I mean, anyone closer to The Bone Zone?
Just be honest, just be yourself. We can only like you for you, and we don’t want to bone an imposter. The most unattractive thing to a woman is a fake.
13. Avoid women who will use and abuse you because you admire them.
Yes, there are manipulative and abusive women in the world who will see your vulnerability and take advantage of your good intentions. This might show up in minor ways, like calling you late at night to talk about her feelings and using you as a sounding board, but not reciprocating by hearing yours and being supportive. She may ask you to do her favors or buy her presents but not do the same for you. She may leave the promise of romance and sex as a dangling option, without directly addressing whether she really intends to pursue a relationship with you.
This behavior is not okay and is a red flag about how this woman may be in a relationship with you. Don’t compromise your safety and emotional well-being for a woman doesn’t care enough about you to respect you as a person. If these things are happening, you’re not being friend-zoned. She’s just leading you on.
Another sign that you should run is if you set up a boundary and she responds with anger, which is the flip side of #4. It’s okay for her to say no when she means no, and it’s okay for you to say no when you mean it, too. Healthy people respond to boundaries with respect, even if they’re disappointed. Unhealthy, unkind people respond to boundaries with anger and manipulative statements like, “I guess you don’t really care about me after all.” If you hear those words or similar ones, get in your car and make tracks.
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There are two key words you should take away from our advice: Honesty and respect. If you both start with those two virtues, any relationship or friendship that grows between you (and any zone you inhabit together), will be something made to last.
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This post is republished on Medium.
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Photo credit: iStock
“Women are not computers that can be hacked, and there’s nothing hot about a guy trying to break the code to women’s underpants.” = men should not accusatorily gaze upon women’s bad faith existential conduct- all that rationalizing and such about trading sex for material advantage. de Beauvoir, Simone, “The Second Sex”, (“Without beauty, brilliance or happiness, woman will choose the character of a victim; she will obstinately embody the mater dolorosa, the misunderstood wife, she will be ‘the unhappiest woman in the world’. . . The narcissist cannot accept that others are not passionately interested in her; if she… Read more »
Interesting, sometimes women don’t want anything to do with you because you they have been sexually abused. Sometimes there are other reasons.
I was with a friend I’ve know for over 10 years one valentines. Everything went great saw a movie, had dinner etc. then we started casually talking & in the middle of it, she said something that made seem like I’ve messed around with other women before & when I told her I was still a flower child, she freaked out, got nervous then started asking me 20 questions before telling me that she can only see me with another virgin. This goes to show that (if not all of them) the only honesty that matters is the honesty that… Read more »
She’s allowed to feel uncomfortable with the concept of being your first experience. Honesty always matters, but it doesn’t automatically equal sex; that was part of the point of this article. Please remember that the feelings of the person you’re interested in matter as much as your feelings do.
What advice is there or guys like me who will never find a woman who is ‘enthusiastic about being naked’ with us for the simple reason that no such woman exists? I can and do everything to be happy, but do so in the knowledge that no woman could ever see me as being in the ‘bone zone’.
I don’t think the authors know what they are talking about. It’s all nice in a perfect world.. but this is not a perfect world. And I have done the nice guy, open, honest respecting route. And speaking as a mature man over fifty years of age… its Bull****. Witness the 200 million dollar government study on what turns on women and why they sleep with men. This study was leaked out of the CIA or NSA by a researcher who bought the way past a security guard or two. And sadly, “boning”… a term I hate because it lacks… Read more »
Relationships are founded on the bell curve of attraction. If you place yourself in the middle, you have the less attractive (left), and the more attractive (right). Depending on where you fall on the individuals curve you are persuing will determine how difficult (or how easy) your quest to conquer will be. This is not true 100 % of the time, but most commonly so for a fling or one night stand. Most relationships that are based solely on attraction alone will not last. This is why it is important to fine tune your most attractive quality, honesty. Bmp remember:… Read more »
The only point that was valid is #3.
Good read.
@ Josh “Delete her phone number. Move on.” I don’t really have a problem with this advice too. You don’t owe anyone friendship nor do you owe them an explanation why you’re no longer friends. I would just say understand that you might be giving up the possibility of friendship in the future. Understand also that if there is no closure, it may cause issues. There is a woman who I no longer consider a friend. I’ve never told her why. I’m very cold to her. Don’t initiate conversations with her. Have never called her. I’ve deleted her number and… Read more »
Another reason that the girl may not want to have sex is because she wants to wait until her wedding night. See that as a good thing. She may want to present her husband with something that’s been saved just for him (wouldn’t that make a guy feel special?), instead of giving him “used goods”. Who says every romantic relationship HAS to have sex? Just because she says no may not automatically mean “friend zone”. She may want to be pursued and courted, saving sex for later on. Just another point of view….
One more thing I think you might consider, the aftermath of sex. Being honest and respectful makes it easier to stay friends if the sexual relationship doesn’t turn out the way you had hoped.
“2. Just because she doesn’t want to bone you doesn’t mean you’re un-boneable or that you’ve done something wrong. ”
“11. If being with a woman who is just a friend is painful because you want more, it’s okay to set boundaries for that friendship or just walk away. ”
“13. Avoid women who will use and abuse you because you admire them.”
Things I don’t normally see in friend zone articles. Refreshing.
Incredibly well put together and the kind of article I was looking for from The Good Men Project.
Thanks, Rob!
If she is not interested, accept it and move on. Anything else is a waste of your time and energy. Don’t bother asking why either.
Wtf? Your friend seems fragile and if she has just been hurt by a man she is likely to be even.more sensitive and suspicious of men. Try to see it from her perspective; it likely looks like you are taking advantage of her vulnerability by being extra kind. There are people who do this, unfortunately. I’d suggest backing off a bit and treating her like you usually would. Perhaps what she needs is for others to remain.consistent rather than adjusting their behaviour because of her circumstances?
Olivia, “I’d suggest backing off a bit and treating her like you usually would. Perhaps what she needs is for others to remain.consistent rather than adjusting their behaviour because of her circumstances?” Treat her like I usually would and be consistent, that’s pretty much what I tried to do. Then she would call me up end be like “Hi. I’m sorry, I know you’re usually busy on Tuesday nights, but could you spare me an hour? Because I really need someone just to talk to right know.” Should I have flipped her off? Telling her to seek a counselor? Instead… Read more »
Has she been there for you as much as you have for her? If not, get rid of her unless you think she will later change for the better.
If there’s a woman I really like and care deeply about, but I’m still perfectly happy with being her unboning friend, but I try to be my extra kind and caring self after she has had a rather nasty break-up, but then she flips me off cause she thinks I’m only showing off to try and get into her pants.
Increasing my efforts will just reaffirm her suspicion, and apologizing for NOT wanting to get into her pants will probably not help the situation either.
So, what should I have done then?
Delete her phone number.
Move on. That person is not a friend.
Sounds like a narcissist.
FlyingKal, Perhaps being extra kind after her breakup means letting her know you’re available to help or lean on but not pushing yourself into what you see as her need. In other words, let her come to you for support when she needs it. That way, you won’t come across as wanting anything from her.
Yes Thomas, that’s pretty much how I figured it too.
But I still managed to have it blow up in my face, if you see my response to Olivia below.
The truth works best for me. Tell what you feel and back off SK she can come to you later if she wants.
If she doesn’t, then she doesn’t, but now she’s doesn’t have to guess at your motives.
Here’s a thought. Perhaps females put you in the friend zone to get to know you, learn about your likes, dislikes, goals, hobbies, adventures … remember the “relationship” zone? Whatever happened to getting to know someone before you bone them? Are you all so shallow that you can’t remember how to connect with another human being … that your only thoughts are to bone someone? If sex is brought up before someone actually gets to know me, truly KNOW me – they’re history. All zones are off limits. We were not created to service you.
josh, did you even read this article!? If a man is friends with a woman with ulterior motives that’s his problem, not hers! Since when is getting to know someone misleadingly or problematic. Someone has a chip on their shoulder.. What is wrong with what Lynn said? Getting to know someone as a friend before considering them for more… How is this an ego stroke or expecting anything?
@ olivia
“osh, did you even read this article!? If a man is friends with a woman with ulterior motives that’s his problem”
How does that make Josh’s advice wrong? No one owes you friendship either.
🙂
If sex is brought up before someone actually gets to know me, truly KNOW me – they’re history. Fair enough. But often it is the woman who brings the sex subject up, explicitely in order to shoot it down. As in, “I don’t know if you had any ideas of wanting to sleep with me, but just to make sure, it’s not going to happen! But let’s be friends!” In such a case she most certainly is not trying to get to know you better before getting closer. And I am most certainly not going to waste my time. I… Read more »
Who would want to be just friends with a female? Too much drama, thank you very much. No one owes you friendships! I have no female friends by choice.
@ Lynn Davis
That’s the thing about relationships. They don’t work unless it works for both people. I’ve seen women break off relationships because they guy hadn’t brought it to the next level within what she felt was an acceptable time frame for her. I don’t see any difference here. The authors are talking to the guys who are not satisfied with the relationship as is. Though you shouldn’t feel coerced into doing anything you’re not ready for, nobody should feel they should have to continually audition for a part they may never get.
Actually, not being able to bring up sex, such a vital part of any relationship, would make you history with me.
It looks like a hangup I don’t need to deal with, and if you can’t talk honestly with me about it, I wouldn’t ever expect you to be able to communicate well.
There are advantages to getting the mind-consuming physical out of the way, so you can concentrate on the person.
And to others, bringing up sex too soon has it’s own problems as well. It’s just as arguable that the “mind-comsuming physical” can distract from what an individuals true compatibility and true feelings may be with said other person. Sometimes people find themselves in very sexual relationships with not much else to sustain them. Sex can be great with a person, but the connection outside the bedroom not so much.
Lynn Davis, what you described sounds like dating to me.
Dont be a bone head and you may get into the bone zone.
Life is not all about sex. Some men get that. T_T
As a female Dating Coach for Men you have some great points. But I don’t agree with all. Unlike PUA’s I don’t teach guys to ‘trick women’ into sleeping with them – it’s not necessary. But I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with helping him with adjust his confidence, beliefs & behaviours towards her … to help her see him as dateable (or as you say ‘boneable’). I’ve helped so many men turn a friend into a girlfriend with a few simple mindset & behavioural adjustments. And going by my Facebook newsfeed, these women seem pretty damn happy with it… Read more »
Ainsley, Yes, there are ways for men to make themselves more attractive and appealing, and to address behaviors that are known to turn off women. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as a man is doing it for himself and not at the demand of or to please a particular person.
This makes sense. I see men fall into the pua trap of using what they’ve learned in a destructive way. At the same time I think it’s good to give awkward/ less confident people some theory to lean on while they learn how to operate better in social situations and talk to women.
Reminds me of the song Miley Cyrus sang on the 40th of SNL.
50 ways to not bone your friend.
…Just say no to the bone Joan, get a new dick Mick…
Excellent, excellent article — for both men AND women!
Thanks, Deborah. We’re glad you liked it.