A Reader Responds to Father Shooting Daughter’s Laptop

 

[This was written in response to Tom Matlack's article, Dad Uses .45 to Shoot Daughter's Laptop over Facebook.]

1) Have we lost our way so profoundly as fathers that a guy putting bullet holes in his daughter’s property is symbolic of what we are all not doing? 

If this is what symbolizes what is absent in parenting then I fear the future of parent-child communication and relationship. A return to control-based, punishment oriented, patriarchal family systems is not what we should be lamenting. We’ve been there and done that. Fathers who controlled their families at the expense of having right relationship with their children – who were feared leaders left isolated from the mutual affection, love and ease of interaction that we know is possible. One does not have to demand respect through fear, maintain leadership by crushing opposition, or convince oneself that iron fisted authority is an expression of love. There are many examples of fathers who garner respect and obedience from their children through authoritative rather than coercive parenting. These are not laissez faire, “hippy”, disengaged parents who abdicate responsibility for limit setting and leadership. But they achieve the balance of raising healthy and capable children while still having their love and respect as they reach adulthood. Though I believe there are many examples of these fathers today I know for sure that they exist because I am married to one of them. Our now 16 and 19 year old children love him and they respect him and themselves.

2) Do you think there is some kind of gender abuse here with a male father using his gun to punish his female daughter?

Yes, in several ways. He talks about his threat in the past to be “shoot” her computer if she repeats a similar infraction. If we changed this scenario and said that a man told a woman he would shoot her property if she did something he didn’t like again we would be appalled by the misogyny. Because he is her father this is even remotely acceptable?  He was destructive to valued personal property because she behaved in a way he disliked. Wow. What a message I would want  to make sure my daughter never received, especially from the most important male relationship and role model in her life – her father. That he then uses a bullet “for your mother” shows an abdication of responsibility by the mother and a system of roles that is most concerning. The fact that it’s a gun isn’t centrally an issue to me – it’s the abuse of power that stands the hair on my arms.

3) Does anyone know if the kid’s laptop was ever replaced or needed for school?

It wasn’t replaced. If you see the father’s FB page he does admit this was not his finest moment but he does not regret it at all and feels that local law enforcement supported his actions. If the father didn’t want the daughter to have the computer, or to put time or money into upgrading it then he should have refused and had her live with his decision. A gift, once given – of time or material things – is to be given freely and not as a bargaining tool or one that expects ongoing gratitude and deference, or behaviours in return. If the computer was provided as a privilege it should have been done with agreed upon terms of use and removed if these were not respected. The drama and underlying rage show a lack of self-reglation one would expect of an adult and not at all expect from an adolescent.

4) Do we need more tough love and less bending over backwards to accomodate our children’s ever whim?

I think we do need more authoritative parenting. Research on effective parenting styles is resounding – children need structure, firm limit setting, and consistent follow through with expectations and discipline. This needs to be accompanied by high levels of engagement and positive regard.  When we are afraid to make rules and apply consequences firmly, afraid to say no, afraid to exercise judgment and leadership even when our children show displeasure, and when we are indulgent and accommodating such that our children never learn to handle failure, conflict, disappointment or frustration, we are failing our children. But we also have to be present, involved, aware of what is happening in our children’s lives. And we have to show them by our actions how to live with integrity and personal accountability.

5) Why wouldn’t a dad feeding his baby daughter a bottle or cooking her dinner or giving her a hug go viral instead of a guy with a gun?

I wish I knew the answer to that. You might want to look at our website www.lifecache.ca where my husband and I recently posted about fatherhood. I have a few posts about his role as a father in our family. And it should be viral. The only thing I can think is that this man has touched on that capacity for our children, especially teens, to make us feel frustrated and uncertain and at wits end. Most parents have had moments of deep anger with their children. And some of why it went viral was outrage as well.

6) Dude, really you need to smoke while making this love letter to your kid? What’s with the cig?

Right, another super example of modeling.  And I bet if she smoked he would be incensed.

Mary Champagne

Premium Membership, The Good Men Project

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Comments

  1. “If we changed this scenario and said that a man told a woman he would shoot her property if she did something he didn’t like again we would be appalled by the misogyny.”

    Where is the misogyny? I can’t find it.

  2. I doubt that the daughter backed up her hard-drive before all hell broke loose. I would be crazy mad if anyone destroyed my property like that.

    • Wasn’t her property, it was his, in fact everything that is hers is his because she is 15/16.

      And he threatened to do it, then did it when she did a bad thing again, I don’t see the problem here.

      • If that is your argument…she’s only 15/16, “everything that is hers is his”…ergo his daughter must be his PROPERTY too? Because he’s treating her as such! He’s a controlling tyrant and that video proves it to the world. The fact he doesn’t know teenagers use Facebook to complain about things, like chores, and use expletives with abandon online, tells me that he is very OUT OF TOUCH with reality and his relationship with his daughter suffers for it.

        My 12 year old cousin uses lots of expletives online; at first I was a bit shocked because she’s a good child and very intelligent (swearing makes them feel adult-like)…I think she does do her chores…but complains about a 100 things online…ie. she’s bored, her mother doesn’t let her sleepover with friends, go to b-day parties, she doesn’t let her do this – do that etc. Her mother is very protective…shelters her too much, she doesn’t let her out of the house. I think when her mom does let her out, there’s a collar around my cousin’s neck and the mom carries a leash and brings a doggie bag…and when my cousin is asked to jump, she jumps, and play dead, she plays dead…but then will go on FB and rant about it. :D

        Giving stuff to your kids does not automatically make you a great parent, neither does destroying their stuff. My 12 year old cousin isn’t let out of the house, except when she’s on a leash, so her parents serenade her with all the latest tech toys: iTouch, iPhone, drawing tablet, laptop, Nintendo DS and god knows what else for her age…okay some of us will think what a spoiled brat! (She’s not a brat) I don’t think all these electronics replaces human experiences and love from family and friends. The parents give her all this stuff, supposed to be symbolic of their love, but also to keep her busy, and out of “trouble” and focused on school. I think this just isolates her from social interaction and as she grows older – I think she’ll resent her parents…maybe her parents will take a cue from this father who shot his daughter’s laptop — “I’ll show you who’s in charge here!!!!”…that’s the statement he’s making. My cousin will probably be on a leash until she’s 18.

        • “If that is your argument…she’s only 15/16, “everything that is hers is his”…ergo his daughter must be his PROPERTY too? Because he’s treating her as such! He’s a controlling tyrant and that video proves it to the world.”

          LOL! Talk about hysterical! Yes, everything that is ‘hers’ *is* his, if he bought it. But to say that because she has no assets of her own, you construe that to mean he *owns* her?! Who’s wooly butt did you pull that one out of? And to call him a ‘controlling tyrant’ for destroying a laptop which he purchased for her use….well, that’s so…it’s so…juvenile.

          I find the whole fufuraw to be rediculous. Who’d care if he just took the laptop away and tossed it in the trash, or gave it to charity, or ran it over with his car? Nobody. But because he used it for target practice, suddenly he’s a controlling, misogynistic, tyrant who’s abusing and traumatizing his daughter by SHOOTING HER STUFF!!! EGAD!

          Oh, dear (hand fanning face), I just might have the vapors over this…..

          • Haha, she’s criticizing a guy whose idea of a proportionate response to a facebook post was to literally shoot the computer, but yeah, she’s the juvenile one. Got it.

          • Hippolyta,

            I suspect the bigger issue is that the father threw a very obvious temper tantrum…in response to his daughter’s temper tantrum. And this display, which should be shameful and embarrassing, is being upheld by a generation of parents who have run out of good ideas as “the guy that did what I’ve always wanted to.”

            If you think about it, the hypocrisy involved in making a YouTube video in order to shame your daughter because she shamed you on Facebook…it’s astounding. If this man wants to know why his daughter behaves the way she does, he needs to take a good long look in the mirror.

            This is the issue, not the gun.

      • SeparatePeacnik says:

        No, 15 year olds have property.

      • “Wasn’t her property, it was his, in fact everything that is hers is his because she is 15/16.”

        So your logic is that if he paid for it, it’s his? Alright then.

        Let’s say I’m a really nice guy; I buy my friend, say, an iPod for Christmas. (Obviously it’s the only gift he’s getting from me this year.) Then, after a couple years, I see he’s been doing whatever thing I loathe with said iPod. In response, I go over and bust the thing.

        Well, I’m completely within my rights, aren’t I? After all, I paid for it!

        I doubt anyone agrees with that.

        • You are context dropping. He is her Father…he keeps her therefore is the boss. The laptop was given to her on condition that she behaved…she didn’t. It was his right to take it back and destroy it if he so desired. Doing what he did has left her with a memory for all her life and a lesson in consequences…..well done Dad.

        • Let’s say your friend was caught downloading kiddie porn on the gift you gave him.

          Your taking it away and shooting it would be “justifiable”, and EVERYone would be applauding, but a male parent making a pretty dramatic statement to his enormously spoiled princess is gasp, gasp….
          wrrrrrooooonnnnngggggggg!

          In high school my father kicked my door down. It was traumatizing and frightening as hell.

          Years later, after observing all the mistakes, screw ups and life ruination of my “luckier” peers with wonderfully Trained Seal fathers, I wrote my father a Thank You letter for doing whatever it took to teach me right from wrong, for standing strong against the peer pressure of HIS times, and for always standing strong in his beliefs.

          My Dad would have done what this father did, and I Thank God everyday I had the father I did.

          Thank you, Dad. I love and miss you.

  3. David Byron says:

    Feels like the article is referring to some other piece that isn’t linked to?

    Shooting is a bit weird but isn’t removing privileges a pretty typical method of disciplining children?

    • Here’s where I find the difference, removing privileges can be done in a non-violent, non-angry way. When I was punished as a child and a teen, the main form of that punishment was actually privileges. There were periods where I wasn’t allowed on the family computer, or wasn’t allowed television. My sister once had all of her privileges taken away for a year (she messed up big time). But whenever that happened, my parents always explained to me how I’d messed up (though frankly I usually knew because the rules were well understood by my sister and I), and they made sure I knew that they weren’t punishing me because they were angry, they were punishing me because I had broken the rules. I was never frightened of my parents, but I respect them both and always have (well, maybe not so much when I was 15, but that’s because I was a bit of a brat sometimes).

      The other thing, I think, is that removing a privilege is temporary, or at least potentially temporary. The parent is saying – you messed up, and this is what I deem an appropriate punishment. But by shooting her laptop, I think it sends the message that once you mess up, you are totally screwed. Break the rules, and you’re going to be hurtin’ (not physically, but emotionally). She might have been a teenage brat, but she’s still human.

      Just my very long two cents.

  4. 2) Do you think there is some kind of gender abuse here with a male father using his gun to punish his female daughter?

    Yes, in several ways. He talks about his threat in the past to be “shoot” her computer if she repeats a similar infraction. If we changed this scenario and said that a man told a woman he would shoot her property if she did something he didn’t like again we would be appalled by the misogyny. Because he is her father this is even remotely acceptable? He was destructive to valued personal property because she behaved in a way he disliked. Wow. What a message I would want to make sure my daughter never received, especially from the most important male relationship and role model in her life – her father. That he then uses a bullet “for your mother” shows an abdication of responsibility by the mother and a system of roles that is most concerning. The fact that it’s a gun isn’t centrally an issue to me – it’s the abuse of power that stands the hair on my arms.

    I have to disagree with this idea and assert that the so called misogyny here is being forced. It takes more than a male committing some act against a woman to call it misogyny (and I think trying say that “male against female anything is misogyny” sounds a whole lot like a certain bunch of activists). If for no other reason if we changed this scenario and said that a woman told a man she would shoot his property if he did something he didn’t like again I think some of the very people trying to call this misogyny would flip out at the thought of my hypothetical being called misandry.

    5) Why wouldn’t a dad feeding his baby daughter a bottle or cooking her dinner or giving her a hug go viral instead of a guy with a gun?
    Now that’s a valid question worth looking at.

    • Why wouldn’t a dad feeding his baby daughter a bottle or cooking her dinner or giving her a hug go viral instead of a guy with a gun?
      Because those activities are not unusual. Millions of Dad’s do that and I’m sure the Dad in the video probably fed her and sang to her. Shooting a computer is not an everyday occurence.
      Does the daughter have no responsibilty in love and resprect? The Dad said he spent hours upgrading her computer, and then destroyed the material thing, he did not harm her physical self. We have only a micro view of their life through this video, who knows what the day to day is actually like, on both sides, parent and child.

    • my Mom forcibly tossed my nintendo into the garbage can when I was 12 because I had been a disrespectful pain in the butt. The nintendo was destroyed by the impact. Perhaps I should have been concerned that she was going to throw me into the trash can? Oy

  5. I kind of feel for the father as I have a 15 going-on-16-year-old myself and have had MANY trying moments. Was it extreme? Yes. Was it within his rights to do what he did? Absolutely. If you listen to him, he not only bought the laptop for her but he also spent hours upgrading it and cleaning up viruses that she allowed onto it. In return she used the very same computer to rant (complete with expletives) about her difficult life of chores and responsibilities on a public forum. Seriously?

    • I’m not a parent, just throwing that out there. But really, he bought a laptop for her, upgraded it, cleaned it up….that right there isn’t being a good parent. Well at least, not in my opinion. How does giving your kid an expensive gift and then taking care of it for her teach her anything about taking care of her possessions?

      And as he bought it, yes he has every right to take it away. But he could have done so without being violent and without doing it publicly. Yeah so his kid raged about him on the internet…when I was a teenager I did that a lot. It’s just that it wasn’t as easily found because Facebook hadn’t been invented yet. He could teach the lesson without publicly embarrassing her. Plus…shooting it is so violent. I’d be saying the same thing whether he tossed it into a lake, or threw it on the ground…it’s not the gun part, it’s the destruction part.

    • You agree it is extreme, yet you’re condoning his actions; this is very contradictory. Also he has no right to destroy her property since he did buy the laptop for her (it is a gift); but he does have the right as a parent to ground her by taking the laptop away – which he should have done instead of blowing it up out of vengeance and permanent punishment (laptop got destroyed).

      The text msgs on Facebook was never intended for him and we don’t know what this girl’s homelife is like with her father and so shouldn’t judge by the sound bites that we are hearing. Many teenagers use expletives on Facebook…that’s part of teen culture apparently, if parents don’t already know lol. The father felt slighted and disrespected, so he answered the problem with a gun…blowing-up the laptop. Is this normal parenting procedure? This man obviously has issues! I would f*ckin use expletives too! If her father can be this abusive to her laptop, how else is he abusive to her???

      • Surely Princess will GLADLY keep us apprised of her father’s abuses via Facebook, so there is no need to speculate.

        In my family, Michelle, expletives were expressly forbidden. Believe it or not, MANY parents don’t ride the “teen culture” wave, and as parents they have the right to teach their children to adhere to their family’s expectations and values rather than the questionable values of their peers.

        My neighbor found out his daughter was giving the neighbor boys BJs in his garage every Saturday morning. That too is” a part of teen culture”, and if he hadn’t died from a heart attack after finding out about it he would have had the right to expect her not to do it. Smoking, drinking and drugs aren’t acceptable to parents either, ” a part of teen culture” notwithstanding.

        Maybe this bad old meanie of a father might actually save his daughter from making huge irrepairable mistakes in life…I’m willing to bet she actually THANKS her father one day for loving her enough to expect a better standard of behavior.

        That’s kind of how parenting works.

        • See now, except for the sarcasm, I actually agree with your post here, Cotton. Except….except that he used destruction of property and public humiliation as his methods. I don’t think he’s some evil father that has irreversibly traumatized his daughter, or that he was abusing her or anything. I mean he could be; I don’t know him…but I don’t think that from watching this. I just think it could have been handled with less drama and fanfare…less shame and potential fear.

        • I’m sure expletives are forbidden in many families, i don’t argue with that; as long as they don’t do say it to my face, let them have a bit of space to grow up. Blow jobs are actually from porn culture; smoking, drinking, drugs…are from pop culture and sub cultures. Teens are like sponges. I don’t see in my posts where I’m advocating all of these things for teens??? Thanks for your lessons, mommy dearest.

          Some of us are assuming the father in the video, is a perfect father all-around…with automatic assumption that his daughter is unruly and ungrateful, spoiled brat — based on this ONE video — shot by him, narrated by him…HIS story. I’d really love to hear from the daughter what her version of the events that led up to this blow-up were, and what her home-life is like. She should make a video in response to her father’s video…because you know — all of one’s life problems, punishment, life’s lessons should be publicly accessible and available for public fodder.

          There are many bad parents out there; children do not get to choose their parents. I know my parents have been less than stellar — this is an obvious understatement, if you knew my life story. If you had grown up in my shoes, you’d have shot my parents or ran-away, or ask to be adopted and that’s no exaggeration. To describe my childhood and teen years, even parents…only expletives will do. @$#@tfduafgkudkagfliuagff*ck :D Before you rebuttal and judge me, ask me first the type of hell I went through. Get over it, not all children have great parental role models — this girl’s father counts as one.

          I wonder which parent is going to outdo this guy’s video, next??? The ones condoning this video and his actions, probably can’t wait for another video to top this impressive lesson. React to disrespect with violence — great lesson — this video makes it sooo cool, eh? The next time, somebody will use a live target instead of a laptop and it’ll be posted on YouTube because there will be extremists who will love it.

  6. 2) Do you think there is some kind of gender abuse here with a male father using his gun to punish his female daughter?

    Would a mother would be accused of gender abuse if she did the same to her son? Would a father be accused of gender-abuse if he did the same to his son? Would a mother be accused of gender-abuse if she did this to her daughter? No in all cases. Thus, there is no gender-abuse here.

    5) Why wouldn’t a dad feeding his baby daughter a bottle or cooking her dinner or giving her a hug go viral instead of a guy with a gun?

    I think dad’s feed their babies everyday but it’s not every day you hear about a father shooting a laptop. Apparently the same reason it’s posted here.

  7. I actually think that the father is completely justified. How dare his 15 yr old daughter disrespect him that way? I am 23 years old and if I EVER spoke to or about my parents this way you can bet your behind that my dad would take away anything that he bought me, for good. This father seems very similar to my own, he loves and cares for his child, but God help her if she is disrespectful. And she darn well deserves it. Talk about acting like a spoilt little brat. “I have to do chores, get up and do it yourself” WHAT?!? Her parents feed her, clothe her, don’t ask a thing of her other than that she helps around the house. And as for her having to get a job, its called a work ethic, honey. Grow up and get one! Obviously your father has one, and he’s trying to make sure that you get the necessary life skills to SURVIVE, because he isn’t going to support you all your life and doesn’t want you to be a pathetic waste of skin. She didn’t buy the laptop, so the way I see it is that, if she can’t be respectful of a very generous gift that her father bought her, and NOT use it to write slanderous, hurtful things, she bloody well deserves NOTHING.

    Sorry if I’ve gone off on a rant, but I feel very strongly about this type of behaviour. Do not, EVER, treat the people who raised you in such a manner. You have no idea what they sacrifice to give you everything you could ever want or need.

    • Well okay yes…but…

      He didn’t just take the laptop away. He didn’t even take it away permanently. He took it and videotaped himself shooting it, destroying it. That, to me, is where he went too far. That’s threatening, if not to her physically than at least to her other possessions. If my father had done something like that, I’d be afraid of him. I wouldn’t respect him more, and I wouldn’t appreciate anything else he gave me more. All that would have accomplished is to make me fear him. And why would a father ever want his kids to be afraid of him?

      • It’s not even shooting the laptop that necessarily bothers me. It’s posting it on-line where millions of people have access to this video, and now this girl will forever have this above her head. I would lose all respect for my father if he did this to me, humiliating me a million times worse than I humiliated him. You don’t gain respect through fear and intimidation, just saying.

        • Agreed.

        • But he even addresses specifically why he did that: the offense was in a public location, and therefore so is the punishment. My dad sure as hell never went even remotely into the detail this dad does on why he’s doing what he does.

          Fear? Intimidation? There’s not a single moment in the video where the girl (who isn’t there) is threatened or intimidated. I’ll admit I’m guessing but given the father’s dress and the apparent location of the video I’d guess that this young lady has been around guns for her entire life. There’s no fear here. You did this, in this place. You lose this thing that you did to do that thing, and I’m putting it here because this is where you did the wrong thing you did. That’s as logical as you can get.

  8. Having been a holy terror as a teen I can relate. However, teen girls will be teen girls. They rebel. It’s a natural passage. They’re even irrational, bitchy, rude and disrespectful. Nothing has changed in that respect. The fact that the dad saw it on Facebook–well, that’s the contemporary element. As frustrated as this parent was by his ‘ungrateful’ daughter, he just set a terrible example for her and has now allowed himself to further demonize her and that’s just not good parenting. Taking her computer away for a week and locking it in a storage unit; that’s punishment. Shooting a laptop and humiliating her (looking at the teen girl perspective) by posting it online–that’s a dad behaving like a teenager.

  9. Richard Aubrey says:

    Hard to tell from the video. We don’t know the extent of previous discipline. This might be a major jump from the last attempt–which didn’t work–due to Dad’s frustration, or it could be a small increment beyond what happened last time–which didn’t work.
    IMO, there are two themes here. One is dtr’s attitude, particularly unacceptable when directed toward the cleaning lady. It needs addressing. The other is dtr’s posting the whole thing publicly. Also needs addressing.
    It was said, a couple of decades ago, that a five-hundred pound bomb was known as a “serbian hearing aid”, since you couldn’t talk to those guys without one. A mule, you have to hit him in the head with a two-by-four to get his attention. This kid had been allowed to ignore her parents, had been allowed to ignore the increasing attempts to get her attention. I call that the parents’ fault. Howsomever, at this point, we don’t know if increasingly energetic attempts had failed.

  10. IrritatedANDappauled says:

    I applaud this father! Why are people saying he went over board. OVER A LAPTOP. MATERIALISTIC THINGS CAN BE REPLACED. You know what cannot be replaced, if this kids grows up to be an ungrateful adult that turns into a menace to society because their parents could careless of what they did in their social life. And for those who BLAME the father for not paying attention to the child’s needs?! Really? Give me a BREAK! Being able to wake up under a roof, a WARM roof, knowing that there’s food in the fridge and clean clothes in your drawers is a PRIVILEGE! Apparently these adults forgot what the value of hard work earns. People these days are born thinking everything is handed to them because “my parents” worked hard for where we are. It makes me sick that so many people think this is overboard. There wouldn’t be so much corruption and chaos with the generation today is parent’s would stop trying to coddle their children and show them what the world really is, HARD. Parent’s these days want to do EVERYTHING for their kids and that includes doing the hard work for them. That doesn’t teach your children anything but to be lazy and expect someone else will do it for them. I grew up during the days when kids got spanked for doing bad things. Now a days, kids are getting more slicker with getting around punishment and disrespectful because parents are scared their kids aren’t going to love them anymore. Seems like the kids are taking over and there’s no more structure in these households.

    • From what I’ve seen, most of these comments aren’t saying it’s bad he took away her laptop. They aren’t saying she should have been given everything. Most people are suggesting that the METHOD by which he did this was ineffective and probably just caused more harm. It was violent, destructive, and all about public humiliation. That is not the sort of example a father (or mother) should set for their children. It instils fear and anger in the child, not respect.

      As I said, if my father had ever done this I would have been afraid and pissed off, but that’s it. Where’s the lesson? How does this teach the child anything?

      • The lesson is repeated multiple times: if you misuse the privileges we’ve given you, you’ll lose them. And if you want these material items we’ve given you back, you can earn them yourself so that they mean something to you.

        It stuns me that this is controversial.

        • But you can teach all that without blowing holes into the laptop and putting it online so that she’s humiliated. That’s where the controversy lies, for me.

  11. I don’t disagree with what he said about discipline, but I can’t say I agree with making a response in public. Discipline should serve the purpose of helping and educating your child, not humiliating them. I do feel that, if one has a problem with someone, the mature approach is to deal with that person directly, in private, even if they have done so in public.

    It makes me think of Michael Landon, who was a bedwetter growing up until well into his teens. Every morning he had an accident, his mother would take his sheets and wave them from their front window out of some misguided effort to embarass him into overcoming it. Every day he would have to run home from school to take them down before his friends saw them. Eventually he overcame it anyway, but he was forever traumatized by that, and it was a source of resentment between him and his mother the rest of their lives.

    Children, even teenagers, are sensitive, and irrational, creatures. If the parent responds in a manner that is overly harsh, or abusive, or humiliating to something they’ve done, it is very likely they won’t even remember the lesson they were supposed to have been being taught and will instead only remember the resentment and trauma they felt at the response.

    I’m sure this father was doing what he thought best, and I don’t wish to tear him down personally here at all. Maybe this will prove to have been the best thing for his daughter, I don’t know. I only wish to say that parents need to be so careful in how they deal with their children, lest their response do more damage than the child’s original action.

    • “Children, even teenagers, are sensitive, and irrational, creatures.” – Heck, I’d argue teenagers are more sensitive, especially when it comes to humiliation. As a child I was pretty much never embarrassed about anything. Then as a teenager, everything I (and my parents) did could suddenly be used to shame me. I mean, not really, but that’s how I felt sometimes.

      I’m not saying children should be coddled. But I think parents should recognize that embarrassment, especially for teens, isn’t going to bring about the desired results.

    • Thing is, Jeffery, Michael Landon’s mother was not acting out of love or concern for her son. She was being a cruel bitch and enjoying it.

      I don’t see this father enjoying the attention or punishing his child for something she can’t help.

      I see a very hurt, angry and FRIGHTENED father – a father who cares DEEPLY about the irresponsible and selfish brat his daughter is potentially turning out to be.

      Even the most loving parents make big, big mistakes – but in the end love conquers all. Say whatever you will, this man isn’t hurt and angry over the bad behavior of a daughter he doesn’t love – this man quite obviously loves and cares about his child.

  12. MT from CC says:

    My concern is what else this jerk will use his gun for the next time his daughter pushes his temper over his limit. This is not parental discpline, this is emotional abuse, bullying, and a virtual lock to ensure that he and his little girl have a terrible relationship for the rest of their lives. Well played, pops.

    Clearly, the father doesn’t care, because he would never resort to these tactics if he did. He’s one of those bullets didn’t accidentally kill someone. And, PS, one bullet through the middle of the laptop would have been more than adequate. I guess when he hits his kid, he hits several times so she really gets the message. I kiss the ground I walk on that I was born to kind, loving and compassionate parents, and not to a jerk like this guy.

    • I suspect that if the child was beaten regularly she would have chosen different things to complain about than having to make coffee and make her bed. Like, say, being beaten. That might take precedence.

      Listen to the post. This is not something an abused child writes. This is something an overentitled, lazy teen writes. I work with abused kids. They don’t complain about dishes.

    • seriously? Every one of those bullets went straight through the laptop into the dirt. No errant bullets flying around wildly seeking an innocent.

      I should post the video of me teaching my 6 yr old son and 9 yr old daughter how to shoot. We’re starting with a .22 rifle but they sure like how loud Daddy’s 12 gauge is. All the while my 3 year old is clapping and clamoring for his turn (he didn’t get a turn but he will when he is 6). Some of the people here would probably have a conniption.

  13. So whats his message to the daughter, say nice things about me or next time or I’ll shoot you?…Adolescents come by their whiny stupidity naturally, the father has no excuse.

  14. The best example I think as a rebuttal to MG’s take on this is Tommy Jordan’s open letter to the media and public, pasted below.

    Sorry, Mary, but I respectfully find much of your argument to be misplaced. The misogyny argument is disingenuous at best. I’m the father of two daughters, who were also brought up around guns and hunting. And a son as well. None of them would consider this type of thing “gender abuse.” Nor an act of violence in the way it was conducted, which I thought was a rational manner that strived to make a point that could not be as well made by simply taking away the laptop and hiding it in a drawer.

    But again, read Tommy’s statement below, and how his daughter has handled this, the crazy emails he’s been getting, thoughts that this would make the daughter commit suicide or worse, we really don’t give kids the credit they deserve today, they are tougher than we think, and tough love at times (not saying corporal punishment) is not only necessary but of benefit.

    JORDAN’S FULL STATEMENT
    Attention Media Outlets

    While we appreciate the interest you’re all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we’re not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.

    Some of you think I made an acceptable parenting decision and others think I didn’t. However, I can’t think of any way myself or my daughter can …respond to a media outlet that won’t be twisted out of context. The Dallas news TV news already showed that in their brief 5 minute interview with the psychologist.

    Additionally, there’s absolutely NO way I’m going to send my child the message that it’s OK to gain from something like this. It would send her a message that it’s OK to profit at the expense of someone else’s embarrassment or misfortune and that’s now how I was raised, nor how she has been raised.

    So I say thank you from all of us. If we have anything to say, we’ll say it here on Facebook, and we’ll say it publicly, but we won’t say it to a microphone or a camera. There are too many other REAL issues out there that could use this attention you’re giving us. My daughter isn’t hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged, but that kind of publicity has never seemed to be to have a positive effect on any child or family.

    If you’re a news outlet that wants to ask us a question, feel free to so via email. I’m sure by now my email address is easy enough to find. It might take me awhile to get to a response because I’d have to sort through the “Die you *******” emails to find it, but we will respond if its something that we feel merits it. Otherwise, sorry… no interviews, no talk shows, no call-ins.

    If we respond to anything, it will be on here, and it will be in a way that our words can’t be misconstrued or edited for appeal to specific audience or shock value.

    Now, I’m going to try to get to work for the day.
    Best of luck to all of you out there… and PLEASE give my phone a break.

    HOW HANNAH GOT CAUGHT

    HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really.

    I finally came out and told her this today, partly because it was too funny NOT to share.

    When my daughter made her post, she used Facebook’s privacy settings to block “Family” and “Church” friend’s lists. All her other friends could see it. We, of course could not.

    One of our dogs is always getting in photos and therefore has her own Facebook pa…ge. It’s just a cute dumb thing we did for fun. Well, the dog’s profile is rarely used except when funny pictures of her are posted. Since that’s not too often, and she has very few friends on Facebook, her wall is kind of bare, with relatively few posts showing up on it.

    The other night we gave the dog a bath and there was a funny photo we uploaded to Facebook and tagged her in. I logged in as the dog the next morning to comment on the photo. However when I logged into the dog’s profile, my daughter had forgotten to add her to the “family” list…. so our family dog’s profile showed her post right there on the front page.

    It wasn’t any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident. She hasn’t petted that dog all day today…

    HANNAH’S REACTION

    For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:
    My daughter came through it fine.

    Yes, she’s in trouble, and yes she’s grounded, but that doesn’t mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She’s going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.

    In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,… she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I’d do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, “in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I’ll go half-sies with ya on it! It’s not like I’m going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one.”

    While the whole point of this story isn’t funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasn’t let it (or people’s comments) destroy her strength. I don’t get any credit for that. She’s strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.

    Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her I’d let her do it if she wanted to. She doesn’t like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but I’ve told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, I’d be OK with it. It’s only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far she’s not really interested. Quite frankly it seems she’s gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes I’ll post it here.

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:

    Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star

    Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I’ll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You’ll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

    Your questions were:
    Q: Why did y…ou decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

    A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it’s a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer “Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook” my answer is this: Because that’s how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people… originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

    Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

    A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn’t remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought “Well, I’ll just wait it out and I’ll get it back eventually.” Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won’t ever forget and it’ll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she’ll remember it and wish she hadn’t done what she did.

    The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don’t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it’s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you’re young. Most of the things she has that are “cool” were bought or gifted that way. She’s always asked for very few things, but they’re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That’s not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it’s not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

    She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she’s got parents. It’s not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she’ll NEVER leave it outside at night. She’ll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She’ll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she’s on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She’s not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she’s sorry only because she can’t text her friends. I firmly believe she’ll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

    Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She’s known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you’re too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I’m certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

    Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

    A: She responded to the video with “I can’t believe you shot my computer!” That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

    Later after she’d had time to process it and I’d had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce… you know that uncomfortable moment when you’re in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you’re both waiting to see which one’s going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

    People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she’s too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was “Dude… it’s only a computer. I mean, yeah I’m mad but pfft.” She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn’t too keen on the stripping thing.

    We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

    First: As her father, I’ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

    Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She’s seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can’t take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.

  15. Everyone wants to crush the disapline of yesterday. Spankings are bad, screaming is bad, but I guess here is my observation. The new way isn’t working. No one has any power over their kid any more. I once threatened to slap my daughter for her telling me to fuck off. Her response was that she would call CPS. That is where its gone and now that kids have more power than the parents that are trying to produce responsible productive children, we have failed. Kids now know, they do not have to do anything they don’t want and society will back them up. If the kid is bad, it certainly must be because the kid wasn’t hugged enough. I am not sure what the answer is but I can assure you, the new isn’t any better than the old and I believe we are producing less productive responsible kids with each generation.

    • Hmm…I think something in the middle. I’m not a parent, but whatever the heck my parents did worked. My sister and I both turned out pretty well (I think). We weren’t spanked, and neither of my parents ever threatened physical punishment. It was always time-outs, or taking away privileges, or being grounded. There were rules, and when we broke them we were punished, and my parents made sure we knew why we were being punished. And they were strict about breaking the rules…there wasn’t any way to talk out of a punishment once they found out we’d messed up. Somehow they made it so that my sister and I didn’t fear them, but we respected them.

      Well, you know, until we were teenagers. Then we “hated” them…but still, when we broke the rules we were punished. I once stayed out past my curfew and I was told I had my one warning, the next time I’d be grounded and not be allowed to use the computer for a month. So, the next time I was out past my curfew that’s exactly what happened. I wasn’t ever late again. My sister rebelled more, so they handled things a bit differently. But always the underlying principle was that first, they loved us, and second, there are consequences for your actions. *shrugs*

      I dunno…but I think public humiliation and destroying property wouldn’t have worked as well. My parents had to use some tough love techniques with my sister…but never violent, and never with the intent of humiliating her. That’s where I think this father went too far.

      • Heather – no. You AREN’T a parent, and yes – it shows.

        Get a dog, then we’ll talk.

        • Ah this is going in a different direction…but that’s like saying, I’m not straight so I can’t comment on straight relationships. And I’m not a man, so I can’t comment on anything to do with men. I’m not from Europe, so I can’t comment on anything to do with European politics. You get what I’m saying.

          I admit my perspective is different. But just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s invalid.

    • Cary, you describe a situation in which your daughter told you to “fuck off” and you threatened to hit her in the face. What, exactly, did you think that hitting a teenage girl in the face would achieve? Did you think that hitting your own daughter would make her suddenly value your judgments, and want to hear what you have to say?

      I think you wanted to violently hit your daughter because you were angry and having a hard time controlling yourself. This is your problem, not society’s, and it is your personal failing, not the failing of modern concepts of discipline. How can we ever expect teenagers to learn to behave with self-control if their parents lash out violently whenever they’re provoked?

      P.S. You may have noticed that I emphasized quite frequently that Cary wanted to HIT HIS DAUGHTER VIOLENTLY. “Oh, I was just going to slap her” – yes, in a way that would have been a crime if she weren’t related to you.

  16. If his daughter is 15/16, chances are VERY GREAT that she needs that laptop for school. Every day.

    A ridiculous exercise of “tough love” just set this family back hundreds of dollars.

    Brilliant.

  17. I watched the father’s video and I have three observations:

    First, he apparently is so addicted to cigarettes that he cannot film an 8-minute long YouTube video without smoking one. When his goal is to criticize the bad habit of another human being, this should probably be kept in mind (you know something about he-who-is-without-sin-casting-the-first-stone).

    Second, he is complaining in large part because she made an expletive-laden Facebook post. He then uses a series of expletives to describe her behavior. What ever happened to setting an example? Then again, if he was interested in setting an example, he’d probably quit smoking, wouldn’t he?

    Third, and this is perhaps the most appalling thing: when did it become okay to punish someone for holding an opinion? We live in a society where too many people are willing to try and think for us, force their views upon us. His daughter developed her own viewpoint (as she clearly did not get it from him), and it was childish, and it was immature, and it was ill-thought-out. But it was her own. And now she has learned that it is better to simply shut up and listen to others.

    Mark Twain put it best when he wrote:
    “When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned.”

    Young adults need to develop their own opinions in order to learn from their mistakes. I do not wish to live in a world where this is punished, nor do I wish to see the government elected by a generation that was instructed to simply shut up and do as they were told.

    • 100%Cotton says:

      My father smoked like a chimney, which I hated so much I never once touched one. My daughter smokes like a chimney thinking it was something cool her mother would never do.

      What’s your point?

      My father drank, smoked and cussed – all things I found repugnant and never did. My daughter thinks I’m a goody goody and does all those things.

      Sometimes kids learn from your mistakes. Sometimes they make mistakes on their own.

      • SeparatePeacnik says:

        Well, that certainly justifies shooting someone else’s stuff and incorporating gunplay into a parenting style grounded in humiliation and domination. I’m convinced!

      • My point is that you set the best example you can, something the father in this instance needs to work on.

  18. HidingFromtheDinosaurs says:

    This is an example of truly terrible parenting, and I hate to think the kind of fear that use of a gun in disciplinary action must instill in a child. Anyone with half a brain can think up more constructive, effective and no-violent ways to discipline children, so this must be regarded as a truly juvenile and immature act. Too few parents these days understand how to control their anger or the importance of doing so.

    I must, however, echo the disagreement over point number two. The fact that a man committed a unjust action against a woman does not automatically make it an incident of “misogyny” or gender bias in any way. For this to be called misogyny, or even sexism, evidence would have to be produced linking the action and its motivation to beliefs or statements about gender. As it stands, the action appears to have manifested as a perversion of the parent/child power dynamic rather than out of any ideology or hatred relating to gender.

  19. This guy is a brilliant Dad and should be American of the year. He cares for his kid enough to make the hard choices and to DISCIPLINE her…something that’s been lost for too long and that needs to return asap.

    The whimpy whining from the feminists and limp wristed liberals over this perfectly illustrates what’s wrong in society to day.

    On ya Dad.

    • “The whimpy whining from the feminists and limp wristed liberals over this perfectly illustrates what’s wrong in society to day.” – That is an insult. The rest of what you wrote, alright that’s your opinion. But the bit I quoted, that is just supposed to be an insult. It doesn’t promote discussion, it tries to stop discussion by causing shame and anger. Not cool.

      Try actually reading what the “whimpy feminists” are writing, first. Some of us are saying its gendered. But quite a few of us either haven’t brought it up or are saying it’s not a gender issue. I, for one, don’t think it’s a gender issue. If it had been her mother doing the shooting, my opinion would be the same. A lot of the comments on here are saying they disagree with what he did, but aren’t saying he should have let the incident slide. They (and I) are saying destruction of property and public humiliation were going too far.

      And “limp-wristed liberals” is just layering stereotype after stereotype. This is a site where a bunch of men (an women) can get together and discuss what it means to be a good man…..not make insults which play on the fear and hatred directed toward people who don’t fit the heteronormative ideal.

      Anyway, an example of when my parents disciplined their children, but didn’t resort to public humiliation or destruction of property: My sister managed to really screw up when she was in high school. I won’t go into details, but she got herself into a bit of trouble. So what happened? My parents took her car and sold it. She would only be able to drive again once she earned back that privilege. There was some level of humiliation – she had to explain to her friends why she no longer had a car. But it wasn’t world-wide. They managed to remove a privilege without being destructive. Discipline without fear.

    • wellokaythen says:

      I’m not clear what the argument is here. Are liberals and feminists to blame for his daughter’s misbehavior? I’m not clear on how exactly those evil forces influenced his daughter. I have the impression his daughter was NOT raised in a liberal or feminist household, so I’m wondering where exactly this influence comes from.

      If limp-wristed liberals and whimpy whining feminists are more powerful than a gun-toting conservative dad, then what does that say about gun-toting conservatives? Being weaker than the whimpiest whiner is kind of embarassing, it seems to me. Kind of sad, really.

  20. wellokaythen says:

    So, he’s taught his daughter to cover her tracks better when she’s online. She should post complaints under a pseudonym so it doesn’t get back to her.

    • 100%Cotton says:

      He also taught her she’s not nearly as smart as she thinks she is, and even the family dog can uncover her deceit.

      Maybe instead of covering her tracks better she’ll stop and weigh whether or not it’s worth getting caught.

      • Well I may not have a 16 year old daughter, but I certainly was a 16 year old daughter. I have a sister who was, at one point, 16…and I had many friends who were 16-year-old daughters. At 16, we were all really daft and wicked dense. Now I don’t know this man or his daughter, so maybe she will think about whether it’s ‘worth it’ to do it next time. But from my experience, at that age, mostly you’re worrying about whether you’ve hid what you’ve done well enough. I was a really good kid; I got into very little trouble. But the few times I did, I wasn’t considering whether not messing up would have been the better course of action….I usually wondered whether I had covered my tracks.

      • wellokaythen says:

        Sure, maybe she’ll learn from this. I’m sure she won’t underestimate her father in the same way that she did before.

        If she badmouths her parents when she’s standing at her school locker, would it be okay to shoot up her locker as well? If she complains about her home life in an English paper, would it be okay for him to shoot up the classroom? I’m sure those things would feel very satisfying as well.

  21. It may be that young people’s discipline is in decline. That could be something that we could try to measure somehow. I’d like to know how anyone would come to an objective conclusion about that one way or the other, beyond the anecdotal “I never would have gotten away with that with my parents.” I’m skeptical, but I’m willing to be convinced.

    I’m skeptical because every generation for thousands of years has been convinced that the current generation of young people is out of control and has no discipline. Pick any society that has written records anywhere in the world in the past 3000 years and you’ll find parents complaining about “how spoiled today’s kids are.” Surely some of them are right, but they can’t ALL be right, can they?

    if they’re all right, then young people’s discipline and respect for their parents have been going downhill for the past few millenia. It’s unfair to expect our society to turn that all around in one generation.

  22. I believe there’s an Old Testament passage that says if a child continues to disobey a parent, that child cand and should be put to death. Are we thinking we should go back to THAT kind of “old school” parenting?

  23. Dan, Just Dan says:

    It’s hilarious that he thinks he’s asserting control by destroying her laptop. He’s playing right into her hands! She’s been playing him like a fiddle, and she still is. Think about it. She got him to buy her a laptop and upgrade it. When he gets mad at her, he destroys this thing that HE paid for and put work into, and he even convinces himself that this is a good thing to do. She got him to shell out some money and then got him to throw it all away thinking that he was a good man for wasting his time and money. Brilliant!

    Going without a laptop will be an inconvenience for her, but her friends are going to have even more sympathy for her now. Everyone who sympathized with her before will feel more sorry for her now. She was trying to tell people that her dad was unreasonable. Without doing anything but writing a paragraph, she got her dad to show the world that she was right. If she can get access to her friends’ computers, she may actually come out ahead in all this.

    I don’t think she’s consciously manipulating him, necessarily, but he’s definitely being manipulated. She pushes a button, and he has a predictable reaction. He’s still his daughter’s meat puppet. Don’t let the handgun and the tough love monologue fool you. This looks like a man who is trying to assert control over a situation that he still doesn’t control and is lashing out, trying to find some way to get a handle on things. The easiest people to manipulate are emotionally reactive people who think that they’re fully in control of the situation when they’re really not. Unfortunately, many of those pseudo-autonomous people are also well-armed.

    She’s found one more button to push. He’s turning into his daughter’s keyboard.

  24. wellokaythen says:

    I think a lot of the focus is on the fact that he used a gun, which is a highly charged, highly symbolic piece of technology in America and will automatically (so to speak) bring up much bigger political arguments. How much of the response is because of the gun itself?

    I wonder if he destroyed her laptop with something else if the response would be different. Let’s say he ran over it with a steamroller or put it in an industrial-sized woodchipper. First of all, he wouldn’t have become as famous. I doubt the critics would have been so vocal. The video clip would have seen more humorous.

    Personally, I think seeing a laptop shredded in a wood chipper would have made for a better video, cinematically. Shooting a laptop on the ground is a very two-dimensional image. Image a cloud of laptop pieces shooting out a machine – much more three-dimensional.

  25. Peter Houlihan says:

    I couldn’t hear most of that video: my hearing is awful and the framerate was way too low for lipreading. But I think that has to be one of the most horrible things I’ve ever personally seen a parent do, apart from my friend who was made homeless by her mother repeatedly through her childhood.

    Gendered violence though? I don’t see what it has to do with gender. If I heard about a man shooting a woman’s property and joking about shooting “past” it I’d call that fucked up. Not misogyny. I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t be doing this if he’d had a son instead.

  26. The Dad looks like a total coward in this video. Voice quivering, talking to a camera instead of directly to his daughter, committing the act when she is not around.

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