Joanna Schroeder believes that comparing the word “slut” with the word “creep” is a false equivalence. But that doesn’t mean she thinks calling guys creeps is okay.
I’m a feminist. You all know that by now, right?
I refuse to stop calling myself a feminist, despite MRAs and feminists alike wishing I would drop that label.
Just because I disagree with a lot of the things that prominent feminists say, doesn’t mean I disagree with equality and with examining society with a focus on women. And despite some of the disgusting things being done in the name of feminism—whether it be the attack-mobs of Internet RadFems who have been actively trying to ruin the life of my friend Hugo Schwyzer, or the similar groups of feminists on the Internet who berate, belittle and demean men for voicing their feelings and concerns about equality and Men’s Rights issues—I still call myself a feminist. I believe I define my own feminism.
My feeling has always been that there is no reason for snark when simple dialogue would do the job. We don’t all have to agree. In fact we’re not ever all going to agree. But we need to respect one another.
That being said, I disagree with both the MRAs and the feminists when it comes to the word “creep”.
My aforementioned real-life friend Hugo Schwyzer wrote a piece for Jezebel about why men hate being called creepy. In trying to get to the root of why this insult is so much worse than any other that can be leveled at a man, he posits this:
…So if fear of the feminine is what gives male insults their power, why then is “creep” worse than “pussy?” The answer is that creep is the only insult that instantly centers women’s perceptions. To call a man a “pussy” is to make a comment about how his behavior appears; to call him “creepy” is to name how he makes women feel. If a man wants to disprove that he’s a “pussy,” all he has to do is act with sufficient macho swagger or courage to make the insult obviously inappropriate. But trying to disprove “creepy” involves trying to talk a woman out of an instinctual response to a potential threat, a much more difficult thing to do. Most men recognize (or eventually learn) that the harder they try to deny their creepiness, the creepier they appear.
I agree with Hugo on almost all of this. Especially the part where a guy who tries to talk a woman out of thinking he’s creepy makes him even more creepy. That doesn’t mean the guy is actually a bad guy, but it means he’s overstepping a boundary he should be respecting.
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What’s missing in this conversation is the understanding that the word “creep” keys into a way in which many men have felt deeply misunderstood and generalized. Not all men are creeps, not all are violent, not all are out just for sex. But in many ways, this is the brush with which we’ve painted masculinity. Not necessarily feminists, but society as a whole. Guys are so horny they’ll hump a fresh-baked pie. Men are so dangerous, they can’t be trusted with childcare. These assumptions go on and on. And while I do believe men need to understand that for some women these fears are rooted in reality, women and society need to see the ways in which men—especially those who struggle with social awkwardness—suffer under these assumptions.
We as a society, and as women, too easily jump to calling someone a creep without really thinking about what it implies. If you extrapolate it a bit, you’re telling a man that you’re afraid he’s going to rape you. Now, you may legitimately be afraid he’s going to rape you (and I believe our instincts about people should be trusted and we should keep away from people we get that sense from) but for all the guys we call creeps, we cannot possibly believe they all are out to sexually assault us.
We use the word to insult men because it works. It is hurtful. For a man who is sensitive to how people perceive him, it is the worst insult you can level at him. It is not to be taken lightly.
But MRAs, here’s what I think you’re missing: “Creep” and “Slut” are not on the same level, and to claim they are is to misunderstand what it means to be called a slut.
Think about it, what is a slut? It’s a woman with a sexual past, a whore, a woman with no sexual morality, a woman who will use sex indiscriminately, a woman who doesn’t value her body or her integrity. To some people, a slut is simply a woman who enjoys sex outside of marriage.
To many people, even people in authority, a slut is a woman who is asking to be raped.
The crime of sluttiness is not about behavior toward another individual. It isn’t about hurting another person or violating their space. It is about the value of the woman… Her value to herself, and her value to society as a sexual being.
More precisely, being a slut is about her lack of value. A slut is, in so many ways, lacking humanity. If she is asking to be raped, or somehow deserving of rape, she is not even human. She is a flesh-doll. As far as I know (correct me if I’m wrong) there is no insult in the English language that is equivalent to that for men. I’m not saying women have it worse, I simply want us to all be on the same page about what all of these words mean.
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So is being called a slut the same as being called a creep? No, a creep gets the name by doing something to somebody. By doing something that violates another person’s sense of security or physical space.
I’d like to be more precise with this equivalence and compare the word “creep” to the word “bitch.” Now, being a bitch is a specifically female thing, and it’s not a compliment. Strong women are often called bitches, just as strong men are often called assholes. But there is an element of the word “bitch” that is shameful. Like we can’t control our hormones, like the essence of our femaleness is inextricably linked to being animals; as if nature controls us. Like the moon and the tides may cause our hormones to swell and next thing you know a totally normal woman is no longer in control of herself and she’s become a bitch.
When you’re called a bitch, it’s implied that you have no control over yourself and you don’t care who you hurt.
When you’re called a creep, it’s implied that you have no control over yourself and you don’t care who you hurt.
The ultimate lesson here is that both “bitch” and “creep” serve important functions. As Hugo says, “No other word is as effective as describing when a man has crossed a woman’s boundary; no other word forces a man to reflect on how his behavior makes other people feel.”
I would say the same thing goes for the word “bitch.” Both words should cause the person being accused to stop for a moment and reflect upon what they’re doing, to ponder whom they’re hurting, and to think about how they may need to change their approach.
In turn, neither of these words should be used casually. They are powerful, gendered words. And as we know, words do hurt. Words can even kill, as we see with bullied teens all too often.
Ladies, calling a random guy you don’t like a creep does damage to him, it shames him. Consider for a moment, before you call someone a creep, whether he may actually just be shy or socially inexperienced. He may be doing his best in an unfamiliar situation. No need to wound someone who is taking a risk in talking to you.
That doesn’t mean you have to talk to someone just because he wants you to. You can clearly say, “You seem like a cool guy, but I’m not interested. I’m going to go back to talking to my friend (reading my book, checking my emails, etc) now. Have a good day.” Then turn away. If he persists after that, then maybe he is being a creep. Make your boundaries clear and stick with them.
And fellas, calling a woman a bitch does damage to her. It reduces her to something akin to a beast. You don’t have to put up with someone treating you unfairly, but instead of calling her a bitch, you can simply say, “I think this conversation isn’t going in a productive direction. Let’s talk later (or let’s not talk about this, or let’s not talk at all, etc).” And then walk away. If she persists after that, maybe she is being a bitch. You, too, need to make your boundaries clear and stick with them.
If we can come to a consensus to stop using these words, and replace them with words that are less gendered, less rich with painful social context, I think that’d be awesome. But we’d have to work together—feminists and MRAs, men and women. And until we’re ready to do that, we should perhaps all make an effort at choosing our words more carefully.
Image courtesy of Mykl Roventine
About Joanna Schroeder
“More precisely, being a slut is about her lack of value. A slut is, in so many ways, lacking humanity. If she is asking to be raped, or somehow deserving of rape, she is not even human. She is a flesh-doll. As far as I know (correct me if I’m wrong) there is no insult in the English language that is equivalent to that for men.”
I think the word you are looking for is “fag”.
That word is loaded with threat of violence and reserved exclusively for men who fail to behave appropriately as a “man” should. Failure to adhere to the male script leaves a man worthy of being burned at the stake. Gay rights are extension of men’s rights.
I know this is kind of old but am going to comment anyway because I’ve recently been hit with the “Creeper” label and am very hurt by it. To start – Joanna, kudos, kudos, kudos, kudos !!! I have been all over the internet and you are the only female to “get” why creep-shaming is so offensive to men. Thank you. All women should read this before the pull out the C-Card and call any male a creeper.
Let me begin by saying I don’t approve of abuse of women by men. I don’t approve of abuse period; so if that is going on and a female is being stalked, harassed, etc by all means gather your evidence, go to the police, get a restraining order, get him arrested, whatever. Take care of yourself and be safe. The problem is that in the vast majority of “Creep Shaming” there is no abuse whatsover going on. What happens is a woman gets uncomfortable and attempts to destroy the man with a litany of hate. Hate that is not deserved, not wanted, and in almost all cases … totally unexpected. The man is left wondering “what did I do?”.
Many men argue that its not fair and its not. It horribly unfair and here is why. The woman assuming she has some valid complaint refuses to take ownership of it. And instead uses her power to accuse someone of a horrific crime like rape. The entire situation is the responsibility of the woman because she is the one trying to terminate the relationship. I know that doesn’t make sense so I will try to explain. The man may have done something offensive or he may not. Most likely has done something offensive and not even realized it. It may actually be that the woman took offense over essentially nothing (I once heard a woman say that any man who used the F-word was a Creeper). The fact is, the man has no idea what is going because WOMAN refuses to disclose the true situation. In psychological terms its called “withholding” and is a form of power brokering. The woman holds the power over what is going on and uses it to hurt the man who has no clue. It usually takes the form of not responding to texts. Or emails. Or phone calls. Or voice messages. Essentially the man attempts to contact the woman and the woman ceases the relationship in HER mind with the guy having no clue as to what’s going on. And then when the guy follows up with additional attempts at contact, he is accused of being a stalker, a rapist, or a pedophil. Essentially, in most cases the man is being penalized because the woman expected him to read her mind and when he can’t she accuses him of being a horrible criminal of the worst sort.
And in many cases it gets progessively worse because the woman has kicked the guy in the nads and he’s now pissed. He’s defensive and angry and wondering just what the hell is going on. So of course it devolves. The guy calls a few times and then leaves an angry message. Or he goes by her place to confront her in person. He really just wants an explanation but he is angry (and sometimes drunk) so things can quickly get out of hand. AND HERE IS THE KICKER: THE ENTIRE SITUATION IS BROUGHT ON BECAUSE THE WOMAN REFUSED TO BE HONEST AND TELL THE MAN THE TRUE SITUATION. TAKING OWNERSHIP AND TELLING THE MAN SHE IS NOT INTERESTED PREVENTS THE WHOLE CAN OF WORMS FROM BEING OPENED.
Women will claim, and rightly so, that men are dangerous and can hurt people. Well, yes they are and yes they do. But you know what makes it worse? When someone throws gasoline onto the fire. Its bad enough to be rejected by someone. You have hurt feelings, etc. But when you don’t even know why you are being rejected and then when you try to find out you are treated like a pervert? That would make anyone angry. Yes, it would make someone angry enough to send you a 1,000 emails when you refuse to respond to any of them to just say what the hell is going on. Does this start to make sense now? HERE IS THE KICKER SO PLEASE READ: Tell someone why you’re not interested causes him in almost all cases to just go away (in the small number of cases he doesn’t, tell him if he doesn’t leave you alone you’re contacting the police) but if you refuse to acknwoledge what is going on and treat him like a pervert you are just going to anger him and PROVOKE him into the very behavior you are trying to avoid.
Anyway, I hope I helped shed a little light on this ugly topic. Here is a summary. Creep shaming a guy is extremly bad and should almost never be done (only acceptable case is if you have contacted the police and they don’t have enough evidence to arrest him; short of that, never). If he is breaking the law then have him arrested. If he has done something inappropriate then tell him. Hopefully, he will learn and not do it again … with someone else. And please remember, this is a man not a woman and he doesn’t think like a woman. Got it. Do I need to repeat that? He cannot read your mind; something that may seem obvious to you as a female is a complete baffling mystery to him. Don’t assume if you don’t answer his calls he will know what you mean or what you want or what you are thinking. He won’t; trust me on this, I’m a guy. So if you don’t tell him what is going on and things go downhill and get ugly you have only one person to blame and thats you. Remember the analogy – cutting things off with a guy is difficult – consider it a small fire. Do you do what it takes to make sure it simmers a little and then goes out … or do you pour gasoline on it ?
Thanks for the comment.
I don’t disagree that there is a problem with the way in which men and women communicate. Women DO need to be very clear about why they have ended a relationship. However, no one has the right to intimidate or scare someone because they haven’t given the other some certain set of information, even if it would be fair to do so. Now, let’s be clear that both men and women act unstable and mean and scary when being dumped and BOTH need to stop that. However, even if a woman (or man) doesn’t tell you why they didn’t call or text or whatever, you still don’t have the right to act like a jerk or refuse to leave their house or call a bunch of times.
General guideline: If someone hasn’t returned 2 calls and 2 texts, it’s done. The end. Don’t contact them again. Obviously this is not a law, nor should it be (duh) but it’s a very good rule that works for a lot of people who have successful dating lives and good self-esteem.
It’s REALLY hard to follow that rule, but it’ll save you heaps and heaps of pain in the future. 2 calls, 2 texts, the end. Walk away. You can try again in 2 weeks, if you must, but unless the person fell into a well like Baby Jessica or they were in a coma, you need to leave that person alone because obviously they either don’t want anything to do with you, met someone else (or were always with someone else, cheating with you) or are playing fucked up mind games that you don’t need to be a part of.
So, to sum up, women should NOT call men creeps out of nowhere. However, there is no reason to leave multiple angry messages (1 angry message will do) or to show up at a person’s house uninvited. If you do show up uninvited and are asked to leave, then you have to leave.
If you don’t leave, or if you leave more than 1 angry message or if you threaten in ANY way or call her a name (any name!) then you are being a creep and that is one of the times when the word is necessary.
Well done. I am a middle aged man who was “creep shamed” out of his career by a group of girls and their mothers. It was insidious the last year I taught. I realize there are other factors involved in a story re/ a male teacher and underage students but, until I saw some info on this creep shaming, had no term for the way I was treated. See teacherhunt.blogspot.com (November) if you want the gory details.
I do agree that being called creep is far more damaging for socially awkward people. But I think its not just for men, but also for a few socially awkward women ( I know one of them ). Maybe because its usually men who are shy and awkward towards the opposite sex, creep are used to describe men. And I think its because more often shy guys do approach beautiful and popular girls ( out of their league, girls who seems to use more creep words ) than a shy girl approaching popular and attractive guy.
I know a girl back in high school who was awkward and shy ( and not popular at all ) , and she tried being friendly with a guy who was really popular and attractive in school ( and a jerk ). Basically he called her creepy girl, weirdo, laugh at her, in front of his friends. Hell I know it hurts so much for her, she ran away and cried. I do think its really damaging to her, and she was not coming to school for few weeks after.
I think the word “creep” for socially awkward people, men and women, are very damaging because its a reminder that they are not belong in society. After you put so much courage to just talk to someone, to just make an eye contact to someone, and then just to be called creep and weird. Hell it hurts so much. Socially awkward people used to think they are just an outcast in society. The word creep is a reminder to that sad fact they are trying to forget when they want to approach the opposite sex.
And I do think for socially awkward people, when they try to talk with opposite sex, they are not looking to get laid. I think they just want to be accepted as a normal people. A normal, socially active women maybe don’t understand how it feels to be called creep by a person you attracted to. But I think shy and socially awkward girls would understand.