Joanna Schroeder wonders what we’re saying about men when we think a sex strike is the most effective means to changing legislation.
According to Alter Net, a group called Liberal Ladies Who Lunch have organized a sex strike, set to happen April 28-May 5, Lysistrata-style. The LLWL area addressing not only the coverage of birth control by insurance, but also new laws that limit women’s reproductive rights even further.
In the original Greek play, the women of two warring communities organized a sex strike to compel their men to put a stop to their endless killing.
In some ways, the LLWL strike makes more sense than the original—if we’re not going to be afforded the same prescription coverage for birth control that you guys are given for Viagra or Cialis, then why would we have sex with you guys and risk pregnancy?
Except… Is my not having sex with my beloved husband actually going to help us get anywhere on this issue? My husband agrees with me, birth control should be covered by insurance. Why does he have to go without sex because Rick Santorum and his bring-religion-into-government buddies are legislating things like allowing doctors to lie to their pregnant patients about birth defects in an unborn baby.
Even further into the issue, what are we saying about men when we think the most powerful way to be heard is to block you guys from access to our ladyparts? Are you all just puppy dogs panting over panties?
And what are we saying about women’s role in our society and government when the way we change votes on the legislative floors of America is by using our vaginas as leverage?
I leave it to you guys: Will this sex strike work? Would you change your mind or become politically active if sex were on the line?
And what are we saying about the roles of men and women in our society by going all ancient-Greece on this issue?
Frankly, in my household it would make a difference!! – ie you have ot have a product to sell in the first place
Here’s another sex strike in the news. Sex Strike! Madrid’s Escorts Launch Coordinated Attack Against Banks, Withhold Sex Services From Desperate Bankers
There are differences here, and I wonder if the relationships between the parties here are of a tenor to make this one more acceptable.
I don’t see any difference. Both groups are using sex to obtain what they want, so both groups are essentially prostitutes.
Why did this pack of idiots have to use the word “Liberal” in their name? Limbaugh and Beck and Coulter couldn’t invent a better strawman.
I think it might work conceptually for many causes. My doctor tried for many years to get me to quit smoking. He convinced my wife (at the time) to withhold sex until I quit smoking. The doctor was a genius! Haven’t had a puff in over twenty years…
edit- . Women must also stop using sex to coerce, manipulate and profit from people except where its honest and consensual eg. regulated prostitution.
Here are the new demands.
No money, sexual or emotional intimacy or shiny things for women until
They support legal choice for men.
Women groups stop rolling back fathers and mens rights.
Women groups stop lying about abuse rates
Women’s groups stop putting discriminatory laws on the books and remove the ones that they have put on the books so
The longevity gap is equalized
Women are campaigning for equal representation in the worst and most dangerous jobs
Women groups stop discriminating against abuse victims
etc.
oh I forgot an important one
Women have to stop supporting sending poor men to prison because they cannot afford child support.
I have a non snark question here Eoghan. Let’s say you have a couple with a child. The child is legally biologically both their child. They divorce and a child custody arrangement is agreed to (and for the sake of argument let’s assume things are mutual here). He is to pay a certain amount of child support. He loses his job and is behind. I don’t want him to go to jail either. There is no money to give over if he’s out of work. How do we keep him out of jail and still support the child? If he… Read more »
Set a low income threshold similar to tax. Sending someone to jail just kills any chance of having the child supported, whereas training them in a new field for free and/or other methods to try get them more money would be the way to go. The state can provide support so the child nor parent doesn’t suffer financially if they’re in dire straits.
Hi Julie First off, you don’t confiscate drivers licences or put people in prison for being poor in the first place. Child support must never be set at more than the person can afford to pay. We introduce the concept of consent to fatherhood, so women will be deterred from making unilateral decision to have children with men without their consent, men that are unsuitable, unknown etc. Ban all women’s chat shows and sources that show men as being responsible for women’s unilateral decisions for bringing children into unsuitable situations and change the script to the women being responsible, as… Read more »
are not aren’t
Eoghan – I agree that child support should not be more than the person can afford to pay. However, I think there are already rationales used for setting the level of payment that include what the person was able to pay in the past and what the child needs now. The problems come when the person can’t find work or chooses not to work or, in a tragic case out here, when the judge decides to base payment on an old job which paid 4x as much as the paltry grad student stipend the suspect was now making. There are… Read more »
Michelle. I don;t think that there needs to be a waiver, what should be present is “unless we are planning to have a child together, or together decided to convert an accident or “accident” into parenthood, you have no right to coerce me into fatherhood” is an entirely reasonable expectation. I’m going to quote a feminist that actually views women as adults, its a same there aren’t more like her. Karen DeCrow, former president of the National Organization for Women, writes: “If a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring a pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not,… Read more »
There are quite a few women with moderate views reading this site, who want the sexual and divorce landscapes to improve for everyone. Elsewhere, I mentioned how disgusting it was that my state is rated F on all reproductive rights, as in, it’s hard for women to get abortions and hard for men to escape state-imposed child support payments. But, a small rant: Though GMP isn’t anywhere near as bad as most sites online, I’m thinking you’re going to see people who either side only with MRAs or only with feminists disproportionately represented among commenters. The psychology of online commenting… Read more »
Thanks for the heads up on the tech glitch. We had fixed that a while ago, and then we switched server companies to get site speed up overall, and I think the new fixes they made for speed over-rode the old fix. So let me look into that.
We’e glad to have you commenting, and I like your point about moderate commenters versus commenters with extreme views on one side or another. Thanks!
I write into notepad/word/whatever to avoid the reload glitch. Lost a comment once that took me half n hour to write, it annoyed me bigtime.
First off, you don’t confiscate drivers licences or put people in prison for being poor in the first place. JG-I can’t quibble with this one. Child support must never be set at more than the person can afford to pay. JG-agreed and as a person’s pay increases or decreases child support should be adjusted We introduce the concept of consent to fatherhood, so women will be deterred from making unilateral decision to have children with men without their consent, men that are unsuitable, unknown etc. JG- I think all adults should cut the manipulation and the “me me me” the… Read more »
(Eoghan) We introduce the concept of consent to fatherhood, so women will be deterred from making unilateral decision to have children with men without their consent, men that are unsuitable, unknown etc. (JG) I think all adults should cut the manipulation and the “me me me” the hell out. I am a firm believer that if a woman could go to a clinic and become impregnated, take all responsibility for raising that child, then going behind someone’s back to get child support is manipulated and terrible My concern with this is current child support law is designed to ensure that… Read more »
“Regarding reproductive rights, however, it’s “her body, her choice.”” Problem is, it’s not just her body that is at stake, it’s the man’s responsibility after birth as well + he has zero say in whether the fetus is to be born. I support abortion, but I think responsibility abortion for a certain period after the father finds out could be an option if we also implement a decent safety net so mothers (and fathers) who are raising the child alone aren’t put into financial stress. Is it fair to say that just because a woman carries the child for 9… Read more »
Me – We introduce the concept of consent to fatherhood, so women will be deterred from making unilateral decision to have children with men without their consent, men that are unsuitable, unknown etc. JG- I think all adults should cut the manipulation and the “me me me” the hell out. There is more to it than that. The system is set up for women to be like that when it comes to reproduction. This whole drama is indicative of that selfishness. The big news is that the group that have all the rights, and can force parenthood on another under… Read more »
Oh no! No more shiny things?????
lol 🙂
Or, by the same token, perhaps monogamous husbands and boyfriends can go on a “fidelity strike” until the larger challenges of monogamy get resolved to their satisfaction. We can sleep around with non-striking women and blame some political party or other for forcing us to use desperate measures to raise awareness.
When strikes happen, there’s always the temptation to hire replacement workers….
We mock a sex strike in the US, but we praise one in Ghana (Nobel Prize: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/world/sirleaf-gbowee-and-karman-accept-nobel-peace-prizes.html). I do realize this is the US, and women have more social and economic power – sex strikes are not our only way of putting our foot down. Thus, I propose the following: If your husband/lover cares about women’s health and reproductive rights, sleep with him. If not, then strike. Use this time to let the attachment hormones fade and wonder why he was so attractive to begin with. “And what are we saying about women’s role in our society and government when… Read more »
Michelle
What about the fact that most women are against men having reproductive rights and womens groups actively fight against shared parenthood?
Withhold sex, affection and money?
You’ll have to clarify which reproductive rights for men you are talking about. Two wrongs don’t make a right – it’s not suitable to fight these women’s groups (who fight against shared parenthood) by fighting against women’s contraception. If our male politicians honestly cared about paternity rights (or thought caring would deliver them votes), they would do something about it. In the same way women have been raising awareness on women’s issues, men should do the same. Some of these issues carry a stigma, and it’s up to those who care enough to lessen the aversion to talking about it.… Read more »
Legal choice for men and family and child support law.
Agreed, Michelle. There isn’t anything on the list that most sane human beings would be against. This should not be a zero sum game. I work with many men in Austin who are focused on social justice, rights for men, and anti sexual assault issues. As for financial abortions, I always come back to the fucked up economic system in this country anyway, where our State doesn’t give a real crap about kids period. So many living in poverty WITH parents. Get us universal health care coverage for kids up to 18, better and more accessible child care, working conditions… Read more »
“Most women are against men having reproductive rights.”
Citation, please.
Right, I’d love that cite. I’m a huge fan of men having reproductive rights and I’m a chick.
I meant a sex strike in Liberia – not Ghana. My mistake.
I don’t mock it. I think it sends the wrong message altogether. It continues a gender essentialist view of sex and relationships in the US (that men are horny dogs and women are gatekeepers), denies women pleasure too, and gives in to a narrative that the right is creating that women shouldn’t be having sex anyway (thus not needing BC), and this strike is only a week. People are so busy and overworked that a week without sex won’t even be noticed. It doesn’t fit with our culture. I’ve suggested here and will write a post about it today, but… Read more »
This campaign makes it look like women just use sex as a weapon or a bargaining chip, which is the opposite of what a lot of these women probably want. How many times have we as women discussed that sex is about fun and intimacy (not about economy, unless in a specific economic situation, such as prostitution and gold-digging). It’s ridiculous. And I, like Julie, am a woman who is very angry with the way the women’s reproductive rights are being treated right now–and I still think that this is stupid. Most of the women going for this strike are… Read more »
Well-put, and I totally agree with you. The most effective way to “strike” against those who wish to strip us of our reproductive rights is to keep them out of our lives, not only as lovers, but as friends, too. Could I be friends with a woman or a man who said, in a nutshell, “I love you dearly as a friend, Birdie, but I support the idea of you dying in childbirth or mid-pregnancy because a hypothetical fetus is more important to me than you?” No way! To each his own, but to me, friends have your back, and… Read more »
Dear Birdie-El, Do you really know all the deep political views of your friends? My BFF’s and I are tight and I would sit at the bedside round the clock if they had to go in for surgery or take their family in if they needed a safe haven for the night…but I know for sure that we don’t agree anywhere close to 100% on many political issues…. On Facebook, I post articles by writers that I agree with….and I am sure that perhaps only a handful of people may agree with me, but I can’t expect everybody to agree… Read more »
The nice thing about me and my husband is that we’re pretty blatantly into lifestyles and preferences that self-select for the extremely socially liberal. Being openly queer, into industrial music, S&M, art, etc., we’re the type of people that our peers with socially conservative views wish to stay as far away from as possible. And we don’t get much opportunity to cross paths anyway. I don’t need to see eye to eye perfectly with everyone I know, but I do reserve the right to avoid people who find my basic attributes and qualities abhorrent. It’s not relevant right now per… Read more »
“I’ve been criticized for being a lone wolf – but it’s the style I feel most comfortable with.”
If it works then high-5, if you’re like me and being comfortable actually harms you since I avoided life too much then is it really comfortable overall? I don’t want to suggest you have to venture out, but I am curious if you like being the lone-wolf? I did it for too long and hated it so much.
April 28th – May 5th? Wow a whole week – think you need more like 6 months to make it motivating.
Seriously though, I find sex strikes patently offensive. They impugn all men as somehow collectively complicit in the subject of protest while simultaneously reducing men to barely sentient beings best motivated through their loins.
Its not men that are raising controversy over birth-control -it far-right republicans whose ranks include plenty of women.
Thanks for pointing that out. Radical feminists refuse to hold socially conservative women responsible for their contributions to this mess – something about “the oppressed class identifies with their oppressors” in some kind of Stockholm Syndrome setup – and I think that’s outrageous, infantile, and the opposite of feminism (at least as per its original definition). If the goal of feminism is to make women equals, shouldn’t we hold them accountable for their political campaigning and the legislation they author, too? How come women who want to strip other women of their reproductive rights aren’t equally to blame for putting… Read more »
Men still have sex with their wives?
Leia, really? This is unhelpful.
Yes men still have sex with their wives, if the wives let them.
Or if the husbands let their wives…let’s not perpetuate the horny-man/prude-woman dynamic, hey? 🙂
Well I didn’t want someone to start suggesting sex was expected by men and taking as privilege and other bullshit I heard on another comment a while ago. So if the wives want to as well was what I meant, consented, n all that jazz.
Ooooh. Yeah. 🙂
1. If I went a week without sex with my wife, it would not be unusual enough for me to even notice. 2. If my wife brought to my attention that the reason for a sexless week was a “strike” to make me reconsider my stance on whatever, the exact “whatever” would not matter – I would most likely start planning for divorce. I mean that in all seriousness. Any woman is free to not want to have sex with me, or even to treat sex as a bargaining chip, but I don’t want to be married to such a… Read more »
Sigh. I wish I could talk to you in person Marcus. There will be a rant that follows. There will be shouty words, and these are not directed at you personally, Marcus, because I really do like and care for you, it’s just that I am really, really frustrated as a woman. I do not, nor have I ever felt that the view of men is that they are dogs, cads, assholes or jerkoffs. I don’t think any ol orgasm counts. I think that is a kind of evil gender essentialism. Lately though, the view of women, seems to be,… Read more »
Maybe we should go on a celibacy strike and have sex everywhere all the time all day and just all say NO! We like sex, we want sex and we want laws that protect and allow men and women and every legal consensual combination to have sex for pleasure! We want birth control and the right to our own freakin’ bodies.
To hell with a sex strike. That just means we’ve all lost.
Celibacy strike, sounds good, spread the word. Make it bigger than Kony 2012, millions, billions of people with newfound happy sexlives, abuse n violence would probably drop:P
You need to find me the Aussie Social Media! You are head of the national FuckInFlashMob!
Haha Aussies too busy caring about sports at the moment. Though I think we have subsidized contraceptives on medicare, but no subsidy for viagra that I see. American politics looks crazy as hell!
Archy are you on twitter?
nope, just facebook:P
This is the kind of thing that Twitter LOVES.
“FuckInFlashMob” – Best name for a flash mob EVER! Count me in.
Are you on Twitter??
Technically…but I don’t have any followers…I’ve only gotten onto Twitter to follow other people. I’ve never tweated anything. lol
Email me your @name and we’ll be friends!
Twitter looks confusing, and sticking to a small sentence annoys me:( You can’t have a decent debate, not enough space to write what you fully mean so you end up with the whole GMP twitter war.
BUT it spreads information fast with the use of hashtags. It’s not good for debate, but it’s great for getting momentum.
I return the sigh. Not because I feel shouted at, but because I already agree with everything you said, so the first paragraph sighing at me mystifies me. I keep re-reading my comment, trying to figure out how it could convey the impression that I’m on the Catholic/Christian/Conservative side of this issue. Especially given what you know of me from other comments and interaction. I said I think the strike is pointless (which you seem to agree with) and that it reinforces negative stereotypes about both men and women (which you also seem to agree with.) The only part I… Read more »
The sigh isn’t a directed sigh so much as it was a moment of my frustration coming to a head.
Well, I hope it wasn’t me that provoked the frustration, but just to reiterate, I agreed with everything you wrote after I was done being perplexed by the first paragraph.
I think it wasn’t you. It was this idea of the strike and the comments the strike idea was provoking. Angering, frustrating, and even I, Little Miss Measured, went off. Sorry, it wasn’t aimed at you and if you got a little in the face, I apologize.
Marcus, whether you are pro-life or pro-choice, I actually happen to agree with you, and so does my husband. As I see it, it’s my responsibility not to get involved with someone whose views on abortion et. al. don’t match mine. And if I wind up in a relationship where the diverging views are harmful for me, it’s my responsibility to end that relationship and seek someone who’s a better fit. Now, if Roe v. Wade were to fall AND every single state in the US outlawed abortion (which is never, ever going to happen), I’d have no choice but… Read more »
Very pro-choice. Also very liberal. Regarding your hypothetical scenario that would force you into a “sex strike” that your husband would understand – I wouldn’t see that as a sex strike at all. That would be you and your husband being essentially forced into abstinence by policies that prevent the options you require to safely have sex. A sex strike is one person withholding sex for the express purpose of coercing their horndog sex partner into some action or view that they otherwise would reject. It’s based on the assumption that aforementioned horndog can be manipulated that way, and won’t… Read more »
I agree with Marcus about #2. Withholding sex from me on purpose as a way to meet a larger political objective would be grounds for me to leave a relationship. I would feel like my sexuality is being manipulated, or that I am being held individually responsible for larger gender problems, especially since I would be more than happy to spend part of my paycheck paying out of pocket for whatever birth control she wanted. If one partner starts to withhold sex, then the sexual relationship is in big trouble. I’m not talking about being too tired or not in… Read more »
“Am I being too literal, or does the whole “keep your legs closed” retort suggest a real lack of imagination about sexual positions? Many a woman can have vaginal intercourse and get pregnant with her legs closed.”
The only acceptable position for the sex is missionary. Otherwise you are a heathen.
/sarcasm
Charlie Capen just called the sex strike a “Not-Sit-On Protest”. Funny!
Hahahaha! Much more useful to have a “sex-in” where we all come out of the sex closet and say we won’t have anyone’s reproductive health jacked with.
+1
Hahahahaha…. If the woman I was with decided to try to influence me with a “sex strike” I would come home with a new one and kick the old one to the curb. Pretty simple solution…
I would like to point out that sex strikes have been successful in other parts of the world, you occasionally hear about them, but they tend to be in small villages, I believe, not this widespread. From The Guardian: “In Pereira, Colombia, in 2006, the girlfriends of gang members held a widely publicised “strike of crossed legs” vowing to give up sex until their partners gave up violence. Last year, the city’s murder rate saw the steepest decline in Colombia, down by 26.5%. ” “One sex strike lauded as a straightforward triumph was held in Kenya in 2009, when women’s… Read more »
“Personally, until the GOP reverses its antiquated views of gender roles and female sexuality, I have vowed to not have sex with a person who votes Republican. But that’s not really a strike, I just don’t think I would want to have sex with them anyways.”
Part of me says “tsk tsk” at being so limited….and then the other part of me goes “yeah…I can see that.” lol.
The GOP thought a woman should be VP, with, given McCain’s age, a shot at president within four years.
Can’t have that.
hahahahahahaha
A person’s gender is not nearly as important as their competence and views on critical issues when it comes to voting for politicians.
Also see my comment directly above yours (in reply to DLZ) about low rates of Internet usage in those countries where sex strikes work.
God, I totally agree. I actually dated a socially conservative Republican ONCE. Being called an “ugly d*ke” when I got a haircut without asking his permission, and being mocked, bullied, and abused for daring to have career aspirations was more than I could handle. Interestingly enough, he made an exception for “us” with his pro-life stance when I pointed out that, if knocked up, I’d happily pay for the abortion in full, but if forced to give birth, assuming I even survived the birth, he’d be paying for half the child’s expenses for the rest of his life, as per… Read more »
Hah, I dated a Republican ex-cheerleader once in my 20s. I had long hair and had been in SDS. Our values were pretty different, but we worked together in mental health. We were great at making out, but actual sex was a downer. She wasn’t so bad, but her sister (Barbie – no lie) shrieked at me once for saying women should also be drafted. (I’m a vet.)
“Being called an “ugly d*ke” when I got a haircut.”
Alright now this is like COMPLETELY off topic….but I once shaved my head (and used to have really short hair anyway). Whenever I’ve been called that I usually just say, “Yup, and?” or “Your point?” It usually just pisses them off. 😀
Good point Schoma. It would make sense that different strategies would work in situations and definitely different countries (internet access was not one that I thought of). But I agree that while a sex strike in an ENTIRELY different culture than our own was effective, assuming that it will be effective in our own country is a bit silly.
I can see why Republicans and other conservatives are ridiculing this strike – it plays in directly to what they’re demanding (abstinence-only birth control) anyway. More to the point, if they can convince liberals to keep up indefinitely, perhaps they can reduce the Democrat-voting population to a more “acceptable statistical median” 😛 In all seriousness, though: “I leave it to you guys: Will this sex strike work?” No. It’s a publicity stunt based on the old false dichotomy that men want sex and women don’t want to give it. There are still going to be plenty of women who think… Read more »
Seriously. A week? Woah, you’re swinging a really big bat there, aren’t you guys?
We live in the age of on demand porn. I’m pretty sure I can hold out for longer than most women I know.
Yep, a single week. Seven harsh, bitter, sexless days… or something. Expect Playstation sales to go up.
Your mention of Internet porn brings up a good point – the organizers of this strike have referenced past situations where sex strikes have been successful to bolster their own… all of which occurred in countries with low rates of Internet penetration (pun intended). Hmm…
I think they have it backwards. Maybe they would get more supporters if you start throwing it out like candy at a parade rather than locking it up.
As it currently stands I have no reason to support someone else’s rights when I have fewer and they don’t support mine.
These women weren’t going to be having sex with me anyway. They weren’t, I would assume, going to be having sex with the men who are actually responsible for these bills, …so why should any of us care? Regardless, even taking into consideration all these “attacks on women” women in this country *STILL* have better healthcare than men do. By a wide margin. And considering that in my current situation I have to work for about six hours just to be able to buy ONE tank of gas, and I don’t even HAVE health insurance, i’m having a hard time… Read more »
Yes, historically women with kids have had an easier time getting on state Medicaid et. al., I’ll agree. But in many states, post-Obamacare the rules have changed, creating pools for the low-income uninsured like you. I don’t know where you live, so I can’t say how good or bad it is in your state, but I’d recommend looking into it. Our state has a pool that would cover you now. You may not agree politically with the new healthcare bill, and I agree it has its faults, but it is trying to make insurance coverage more fair for low-income men,… Read more »
I would start having sex with someone else, honestly.
If you think so lowly of me that you think withholding sex will get me (or legislation?) to do whatever you want, then you can get your orgasms somewhere else.
Hear, hear.
Yes, many women don’t agree, but this is a valid reason for having sex with someone else. If you have a partner whose sex drive goes to zero during, say, menopause, it’s valid to have someone else for sex.
Their husbands should withhold their lunch money.
And if the women provide their own lunch money?
I’m ridiculing them at the level they are operating.
That’s sort of my thing….what’s the use in that. It makes both sides look ridiculous.
I’m ridiculing them at the level that they are operating at.
Huh.
How sad for the husbands who know the only way they get sex is to give their wives food.
It’s that darned evo-psych again!
haha, that was a perfect response. We haven’t come too far since our hunter-gatherer days, huh?
So that’s what I’m doing wrong! I’ve been withholding food, hoping that she’ll confuse hunger for food with hunger for sweet, sweet loving.
“We haven’t come too far since our hunter-gatherer days, huh?”
Not according to many posters, here, Artemis.
“So that’s what I’m doing wrong! I’ve been withholding food, hoping that she’ll confuse hunger for food with hunger for sweet, sweet loving.”
Semen does contain a lot of protein, so just keep her away from meat. 🙂
All (~99.999%) insurance plans have covered birth control pills for 40 years. All (~99.999%) insurance plans have covered birth control pills for 40 years. All (~99.999%) insurance plans have covered birth control pills for 40 years. All insurance plans have covered birth control pills for 40 years . . . except for those for people who work for the Catholic Church which is, statistically, nobody. BC pills at Target and Walmart: $9 BC pills at Planned Parenthood: $20 Insurance BC pills co-pay: $20 FAR more insurance plans cover BC pills than Viagra and Cialis, so that comparison works only for… Read more »
I was actually seriously reading your comment, and thinking about what you were saying. It was a bit snarky, but alright I was going with it. “Hmmmm yes,” I thought, “most insurance companies do cover birth control…or at least most of the one’s I’m familiar with.” I was going to point out that though relatively few women may work for the Catholic Church, it doesn’t mean that their contraceptive coverage is any less important. Less statistically relevant, certainly…but not less important. I was also going to point out that the Viagra/BC comparison was first brought up among my contraception discussions… Read more »
This is why I’ve avoided most of the prominent MRA sites. Women who adhere to political ideologies divergent from the 1950s revival that a certain extremist wing of the GOP wants us to return to are routinely mocked in exactly this manner. While I don’t see what a sex strike accomplishes, I’ll also remark that the social conservatives who call me “close-minded” need only seek out the nearest mirror. Attempting to even meet them halfway when discussing why, for example, I would like to work, or why I don’t feel I should be forced into compulsory pregnancy, results in my… Read more »
I’m pretty sure he just said he doesn’t want women who think witholding sex is a good way to get your partner agree with you. That’s borderline abusive. He just says he prefers women who are less trouble in that regard.
He actually does the same as you do. He just decided not to date women who disagree with his lifestyle. If women do it it is ok, but if men do it it’s suddenly not right?
“I was going to point out that though relatively few women may work for the Catholic Church, it doesn’t mean that their contraceptive coverage is any less important.” So, they’ve concocted a national debate, arguing that forces are at work to prevent women (in general) from having access to birth control pills period, when it’s about .000001% of the population, and even they have access via places like Target and Walmart for $9 a month or PP for $20 a month. So, this is like Seinfeld’s show about nothing. It’s a debate about a problem that doesn’t exist, and affects… Read more »
Except birth control is not one-size-fits all (or two-sizes-fit-all). First of all, in America, women need to get an exam every time they want a birth-control prescription. They pay for that. Then, they need to find the method of birth control that’s right for them, which is not as simple as “Trojan or Lifestyles?” Yes, there are generics, but some women need a brand-name pill, otherwise they will get very sick. And many of the newer, low-dose pills have not yet gone generic, so the pharmacy (or the woman’s doctor) may not make substitutes. If you say “Nah, doesn’t happen,”… Read more »
How long until the most popular ones run out of patent and can be made generic? Those prices seem pretty insane. We have Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme in Australia to try reduce the costs of medicine especially for low income earners, my ADHD meds are cheap as they ran out of their patent and can be bought generic. Some of the cancer and other specialist medicines are extreme, a motor neurone medicine was 800+ a month! Who the hell can afford that? Considering birth control gives people much more control over their sex lives and reproduction it makes sense to subsidize… Read more »
Good question. In the case of my migraine meds, it took a decade to go generic. (I went on them about 4.5 yrs. before they went generic, so I didn’t wait the full decade…) I think it depends on the company, the patent, and how much competition is perceived for the drug. The ADHD med situation here in the States is crazy. (I take a generic one myself, @ the lowest dose for my depression.) All of our local pharmacies have shortages of them, especially the generic versions of Ritalin and Adderall. The high-priced, extended release ADD drugs like Concerta… Read more »
(Sorry for the typo: That should be 5.5 yrs…)
I’d be annoyed if they had a shortage of mine, being able to concentrate well for more than an hour is awesome. 😛
Sounds like a cartel….
They are lying here. Lying. They are being the sneaky, snarky ones, not me….You should be outraged by this dishonest stunt. Eric, I’m outraged by your dishonesty. You don’t even seem to be bothered to do basic research before you go spreading your fabrications. Looks like it’s time for a maths lesson. Current US population: 311,591,917 (source: US census bureau) 311,591,917 * .000001% ≈ 3 that’s not right 311,591,917 * .000001 = 311 Better, but that’s not quite right either. When I would teach my sixth grade students how to estimate, we’d look at how big we thought the number… Read more »
“But still, now we know our 311 is fantastically wrong.” Not nearly as wrong as their 157 million, the number of females in the United States that they claim this issue impacts. Since you are ciphering, explain how they arrived at their figure of all 157 million l women in the country being denied access to insurance covered BC pills, not just the ones that work for the Catholic Church, use BC pills, AND object to the Church’s insurance policy not covering BC pills? The real number is far closer to zero than 157 million. Before you try to educate… Read more »
Nice try at deflecting there.
You obviously don’t understand orders of magnitude either, but unfortunately I’ve not so much time this evening to write up another lesson. Perhaps Khan Academy has something on offer?
You are confusing facts and truth for deflection.
It is a bold-faced, trumped-up lie to imply that all 157 million females in the United States are being denied BC pills insurance coverage.
Would love to see how you and they arrive at 100% of women in the United States having their BC pill insurance coverage denied.
Would love to see where I said that.
Oh wait, that’s another thing you made up. I get it, you’re showing off your skills at mendacity. Perhaps you should consider work in creative fiction, since you possess such talents.
LOL! The argument that you are defending. Next time try reading up an argument before defending it.
Wait, you assume because I point out the absurdity of your position that it automatically means I’m defending some other position?
You say others are lying. Maybe they are, I haven’t looked at their claims and I’m not going to accept your characterization of them. You said you weren’t lying, but your argument was full of things that weren’t true. And I’m the one who needs reading comprehension lessons?
That really is daft.
“Wait, you assume because I point out the absurdity of your position that it automatically means I’m defending some other position?” Sorry pal. I don’t make assumptions. Your statements are in writing. Your numbers are fictitious and false because most Catholic affiliated institutions, including hospitals (the largest employers), do cover BC pills. There are 6 million companies with employees in the US (per the SBA) and another 1.5 million non-profits. The only one that does not cover BC pills is the Catholic Church. So, one out of 7.5 million. What is that number, math teacher? Whose number is closer, mine… Read more »
And Eric that’s the problem with the insult you used and the subsequent hyperbolic ‘math’ to make your point. It derails the conversation and I ended up not even making my position on the original article clear – I don’t agree with a sex strike. I think it’s a political stunt designed to get people talking about it…the strike itself doesn’t so crap, but the discussion around it will get them PR (good or bad it doesn’t matter). I also think it horribly perpetuates the myth that all men want from their girlfriends/wives/etc is sex, and that all women “give”… Read more »
Must say, I kinda agree with Eric. His delivery may have been hyperbolic and terse, but that’s hardly exceptional (this is still the Internet right?). Think point number 1 was that this debate on contraception is 100% political theater -not a genuine threat affecting the average women. Basically, republicans thought they would stir up controversy by convincing the masses that democrats were persecuting religious liberty with their ever expanding tyrannical healthcare mandates. Instead, they wound up having the whole thing blow up in their face as a newly vertebrate democratic partly turned the narrative as a war on women. Regardless,… Read more »
Sorry, “their ever expanding tyrannical healthcare mandates” should be in quotes. That’s their idea, not mine.
I’m agreeing with a lot of what you’re saying, except for this: “Contraception for women is not under any serious threat.” I’d have to say yes and no to that. No one is advocating outlawing it at the moment, no. However, by making it more difficult to access (while at the same time huge anti-abortion policies are being put in place on a state level), does indicate that contraception for women is not exactly in a stable situation. As I mentioned somewhere else, the fact that the Congressional hearings were all-male just looks bad…and they had to have known it… Read more »
This is evidence of how politically postured this is. You seem to be under the impression that the right (which I’m not a part of) is demanding for additional restrictions.
Where? What is that bill called? There is none. The left is the one demanding that the Catholic Chuch cover BC pills for nuns and other women that voluntarily work for the Church. That is the change that is being demanded here.
“The left is the one demanding that the Catholic Chuch cover BC pills for nuns and other women that voluntarily work for the Church.” The left is creating legislation which is in line with what a lot of Catholic institutions (note, not actual churches) are doing anyway. If insurance coverage wasn’t legislated at all, then it would be a non-issue. However, that has so far resulted in a huge number of uninsured people…so it’s become legislated. (There are plenty of problems with the current healthcare legislation, which I won’t even start to discuss because it’s quite off topic). The point,… Read more »
“The left is creating legislation which is in line with what a lot of Catholic institutions (note, not actual churches) are doing anyway.” Slight correction. It’s what 7,4999,999 of the 7,500,000 companies and .orgs with employees in the US are doing anyway, and have been doing for 40 years. “So it’s the anti-contraception crowd that is attempting to be exempt from it.” How so? Who is this anti-contraception crowd and what legislation are they trying to create that specifically targets contraception? “The discussion is whether a religious-affiliated institution should be exempt from adhering to legislation regarding it’s employees.” Not quite… Read more »
@HeatherN How many women who work for the Church object to the policy? That’s an even smaller number? So, Planned Parenthood dolls out only “the cheap stuff” BC pills? First I’ve heard of that. I thought they were FOR contraception? Also, what is your evidence that Target and Walmart’s pharmacies only sell “the cheap stuff?” I know people who get all their prescriptions from there. Lastly, the Catholic Church as always objected to BC, regardless of the type. I think it’s ridiculous but their stance really doesn’t stop anyone from getting BC pills if they want them. And if it… Read more »
“Planned Parenthood dolls out only “the cheap stuff” BC pills” By cheap I was not referring to quality, but the fact that they are actually cheap…as in inexpensive. Finding the right pill that doesn’t totally screw up your body chemistry can take a bit of time…and sometimes that means you end up with an expensive pill. Not every hormone cocktail has a generic version which can be purchased cheaply (inexpensively). Please see Birdie-El’s comment here: https://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/would-you-fall-for-a-sex-strike/comment-page-2/#comment-128961 That is what I was referring to. You pointed out that there are cheap versions of the hormonal pill out there…I was pointing out… Read more »
“By cheap I was not referring to quality, but the fact that they are actually cheap…as in inexpensive.” I see. However, it remains that Target and Walmart provide relatively inexpensive BC pill options as does PP. Target and Walmart are regular pharmacies with access to anything available at most any other pharmacy and it’s hard for me to imagine that PP doesn’t have access to a wide range of BC pill options. So, it’s simply not accurate that options are unavailable to this relatively small set of peoplel “As to the question of how many people who work for the… Read more »
“I see. However, it remains that Target and Walmart provide relatively inexpensive BC pill options as does PP.” THAT NOT EVERYONE CAN USE! Sorry for the caps, but I don’t see how I can make it any clearer. I am not arguing that cheap hormonal contraception doesn’t exist…I’m saying that there are plenty of women out there who are unable to use it. When I am in the states, it doesn’t matter where I fill my prescription, the brand of the drug I need to use is such that it is expensive. “Knowing that they have had this policy in… Read more »
“When I am in the states, it doesn’t matter where I fill my prescription, the brand of the drug I need to use is such that it is expensive.” Have you used Target’s prescription card program? If not, that’s how you can cut the cost. It’s available to anyone. “Except, no. There are plenty of religious-affiliated organizations that do provide BC coverage for their employees. “ As I’ve said here before, it is ONLY the Catholic Church, not any other religious organization, non-profit, or company. There are 7.5 million companies and non-profits with employees in the United States that any… Read more »
I’ve known quite a few women who withhold sex– not in a primary relationship, but lovers. I was pretty good with OCD women (and workaholics) and I believe that it’s not a conscious tactic so much as slipping back into OCD. Workaholism, which I believe that women may have a greater problem with than men, allows women to put their emotions on hold, gratify their internalized anti-sex mother and girlfriends, go through the ritual of mimeing successful behavior, even if not being successful, and raising their price with men– some of us find this intriguing. I don’t think workaholic women… Read more »
Wait what? what’s the miming? Do you mean that there are women who pretend to be workaholics to avoid sex? Or that they are working so hard that sex is a low priority?
Woriking so hard that sex is a low priority. The “mimeing” is working harder, rather than working smarter. Even if women talk more than men about work-life balance, they are worse at getting to Miller-time. If you are in a relationship with someone like this, you can take it personally because, after initial enthusiasm, the workaholism reasserts itself.
Yeah, I get that. Or maybe it’s mismatched goals and libidos.
That could be for sure. But I’ve met a few women who sort of make the sex go toward zero after a bit. Obviously, I tend to like liberal, feminist women. (I’m a personal libertarian, but a macro-level socialist [control corporations, not people.]) Some of these women were clinically OCD, I’m pretty sure.
On another note, did you get the two emails I sent you?
Henry, I think your observations are interesting and wanted to note we share many political ideologies (I don’t identify as feminist, though). Like the women you’ve dated, I’ve held my career up as a high priority, and speaking only for myself, I’ve found that if I’m not careful, I can easily slip into an ugly cycle, which looks something like this: • Take a job in a male-dominated field, where some of the old standards are still in place. Am told that I’ll need to work really hard to prove myself. (My last FT position, for example, started me out… Read more »
“I think we as a country need to have a dialogue about health work habits and working smarter without working so hard that you lose interest in life in the process.”
Yeah this is off topic from the original article…but yeah I totally agree there. Just looking at a lot of the laws and common practices regarding paid vacation and working hours in the EU versus the US highlights how overworked the US is. And being overworked can’t help your sex drive.
Birdie, I certainly agree. But I’ve seen other professors (female) do this when their male counterparts were not. They often take on too many obligations, then turn around and complain that they felt that they had to do extra. That may have been true in the past, but not so much now.
In my own field, after spending the past six months conducting a disheartening job search that netted three interviews and no offers, I’ve observed a depressing trend. The guys I managed whose work was mediocre and whose track records were perhaps average at best snapped up new jobs within DAYS of losing their old ones. Meanwhile, with a history of excelling in every role I’ve held, a gorgeous body of work, and recent successes in doubling revenue, streamlining a team, winning an award, and creating a pretty major software protoype, I’m barely even getting interviewed – and when I do,… Read more »
I’m going to retire in two months, but I feel for your struggle. It is tough all too often.
Yes, and the sad thing is that rather than bringing the bar up for historically disadvantaged groups, we’ve just lowered wages and doubled the workload for everyone. Men (or the middle-class, etc.) having it worse than before doesn’t make it better for anyone. Most of our younger siblings and cousins wound up having to start or advance their careers in this economy. My brother’s riding it out in grad school, and my sister-in-law is in Vilnius doing WWOOF. The others are cobbling together what work they can, especially my cousin, who was devastated to learn that the current workforce has… Read more »
You are not alone. That is the song of the minority white-collar worker as well. That cycle of being considered less competent, starting behind the pay curve, working yourself to the bone, finding yourself performing at a level superior to your co-workers, and then on the outs with your co-workers because of your performance, being worked into a coma as you try to say no to projects you know you could complete but completing them only brings you MORE work until you are either forced to quit to save your sanity or driven from the job as your work makes… Read more »
I accidentally pushed send before I was finished. I’m not sure where I left off….
Anonymous. So, if I read you right, the only men affected would be the liberal, feminist men.
Boy, that’s a toughie.
Just thought the same. Pretty much the reason why feminists are bad girlfriends. They actually believe YOU have the power to change something, and by denying you love they’ll get it. That may work for greek stories or clothes shopping, but it doesn’t really work for politics.
You only hurt people you claim to love. Well, I guess it’s though to be a feminists boyfriend/husband.
Just who are the men who are supposed to “fall” for this sex strike?
As a conservative/libertarian, I found out years ago that most liberal/progressive women would have nothing to do with me soley because of my politics, and as a result, almost all of my romantic partners have had non-liberal political opinions. Consequently, you have absolutely NO leverage over me, LLWL, and I suspect that’s true of a lot of other non-liberal men.
So go for it, LLWL, make those smug leftist men suffer.
I’m up for it….No, wait a minute. Strike that…No, that’s not it either…wait another minute…this is it…strike that, I won’t be up for it.
Hey, I’ve already been doing it for years. Now I have a cool, trendy reason to. Any woman need a surrogate to deny sex to? Or will I need PUA skills just to qualify for denyification?
This is a note from the moderating team. We are going to moderate this thread heavily. Please keep things on topic, fact based, and lower the rhetoric. We understand that this is a highly political topic, but we strive for civil discourse and dialogue.
Is that in reference to my links to the op-ed on sexual trade unionism and the peer reviewed study about women using sex as a resource to be traded with men?
I think that it was very on topic, perhaps it was too much so 😉
No actually. It was a just in general moderator note due to the tension on this and other threads today. I’m just now catching up with the queue. Those are interesting ideas, about trade unionism, but I most certainly don’t agree with them. Nor do most other people I know.
They are very touchy and taboo subjects.
And I think human primates use trade for all kinds of things, but my guess is most people don’t think of the majority of their exchanges as that economic, in a literal sense. My guess is that if and when it happens it would have been on an unconscious level, and might not have been angled at the $ sense of economy, but some other thing. I think it’s too complex to say it’s ever just one thing when it comes to human communication (of which I consider sex a communication).
It works as communication too, these progressive women that lunch are most certainly trying to use sex as a commodity though.
So, I’m not convinced this is anything other than the other political theater I see around me, that both the right and left participate in. I don’t really believe for a second that they believe it would actually be a realistic strategy to make change. It’s great PR, it will get talked about (see this blog post and I’m sure others) and it’s only a week long. That’s not a strike.
But since this is a coordinated action AND it’s not men who typically resort to such strikes there is nothing unconscious about sex as resource traded to men.
It’s political theater is what it is, just like all the rest of it. If it was actually a coordinated action designed to “starve” men of sex (sex they could easily get from sex workers or conservative women apparently), it would last longer than a week.
Well perhaps unsurprisingly I pretty much agree with Julie in that I think it’s ‘political theatre.’ The act of withholding sex isn’t the point….the news/PR about their act of withholding sex is the point. So on the one hand, yes, they are using sex as a piece of political capital…but only at a secondary level. Primarily they’re attempting to use the stereotype of a woman withholding sex as political capital. Not that that’s better; they’re still perpetuating the myth that women only have sex to get something else. But I think it’s important to recognize and understand exactly how it’s… Read more »