Sarah Beaulieu wants us to stop talking about the things men do wrong, and start talking about all the things men do right.
I certainly had a lot of reasons to be angry. I was sexually assaulted. By a man. By two men, in fact. One of them was my own grandfather. The other was a high school friend. The aftermath of these experiences left me broken and betrayed, not knowing how to trust, love, or be loved.
I was angry. I listened to angry feminist folk music. I read and discussed feminist theory, patriarchy, and sexism. I was on the hunt to expose bad men, and because of that, I found signs of their bad-ness everywhere. Every look, every comment, every gesture was a sign: men were just rapists waiting to happen.
But I had it totally wrong. Even if one (rightly) assumes that men commit most sexual assaults (http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/), the truth is that most men are not rapists.
Of course, I had a right to be angry at the men who hurt me. But I didn’t have a right to hold all men everywhere responsible for what happened to me. And by being angry, I was shutting down the possibility of love. As I became stronger and more whole, I opened my eyes to the love of men in my life. It was abundant.
For example, my brother steadfastly believed what happened to me and validated how much I was impacted by being molested. The simple act of witnessing me in my pain helped me heal. And so did the mac and cheese he made me when I was sad, and the hours of Nintendo-playing we did when I was too down to do anything else.
My husband taught me that love can be a constant fuel. He taught me that you can get angry, have conflict, resolve it, and love each other throughout. He taught me to love myself, and care for myself. He takes care of me despite my fierce independence. He turns up the heat when it’s cold. He walks the dog when I don’t want to go outside. He puts gas in the car. He volunteers with White Ribbon Project, a group of men committed to ending sexual violence.
My best male friend from college was by my side through the darkest days of my healing journey. After every therapy session, he helped me process what I was learning about myself. He saw me through the powerful emotions that went along with those lessons. He told me he loved me 10 times a day. He stood by my side when I told my story for the first time in public at a Take Back the Night event on our campus. He learned that while he couldn’t “fix” me, he could love me, and that his love would help me become whole again.
Simple acts of friendship and love are powerful tools that help survivors of sexual violence trust and heal. Men love survivors of sexual violence every single day. Most men are horrified by sexual violence and its impact on those they love. They want to help, but feel powerless – and afraid to say or do the wrong thing. If we want men to join the movement to end rape and sexual violence, we have to stop talking about all the things men do wrong, and start talking about all the things that men do right.
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photo by hansvandenberg30 / flickr
I am so tired of the assumption; every feminist is a man hater. We need feminists! Just look at all the victim blaming (rape-culture). Women are the only group who constantly have to fight discrimination regardless of color, religious view, ethnicity and so on. I do not want to be victim, however it is devastating to read how people assume people fighting sexism are horrible people. What is bad about fighting for equality and human rights? Yes, we should talk about the good thing men does, but really, is it necessary? It should be expected. I would expect anyone regardles… Read more »
^^^^^^^^^^ This.
“I do not want to be victim, however it is devastating to read how people assume people fighting sexism are horrible people. What is bad about fighting for equality and human rights?” If you bother to read many of the arguments against SOME feminists you will see it is not a problem with fighting sexism, it’s a problem of PERPETUATING sexism amongst other issues. Eg, gendering rape and DV so heavily that we end up with sexist laws that actually harm or discriminate against men. Of all the anti-feminists I’ve seen, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any that are… Read more »
You raise a good point, and one that, due respect, is not so good. In regards to the point that is not good, I feel like I am banging my head against a wall, so I won’t dwell on it for long. The good point you raise involves the issue of gendering and rape. Yes, most of the public discourse around rape focuses on women. You seem to be assuming, though, that it is women who are keeping the issue of rape against men suppressed in public discourse. I respectfully disagree. The gendering of rape defines it as something that… Read more »
You seem to be assuming, though, that it is women who are keeping the issue of rape against men suppressed in public discourse. I respectfully disagree. The gendering of rape defines it as something that happens to women. Actually you are both right. The responsibility for the gendering of rape as “something that men do to women” cannot be laid completely on the shoulders of a single group. From individual people to the organzations that say they are against it there is plenty of blame to go around. That is something that we men have done to ourselves…. If women… Read more »
And who decided that women had no place in the military? Luckily more women are entering politics, although I was surprised to see the lack of women in British politics (I do not know the States too well). I don’t think it should be a case of who is worst of, men or women? However no one should rewrite history and It is just stupid to claim women and men are struggeling at the same level in for example Afghanistan (not that anyone here does) My post was not focused on the states but the world in general. (Excuse my… Read more »
And who decided that women had no place in the military? Oh no question that was men. Now why is it that feminists and women for the most part have been silent on Selective Service for the last few decades UNTIL someone mentions the possibility of including women? I don’t think it should be a case of who is worst of, men or women? I agree. The problem is claiming group A has it worse than group B has for a long time been the go to defense when someone mentions group B’s treatment. However no one should rewrite history… Read more »
‘You seem to be assuming, though, that it is women who are keeping the issue of rape against men suppressed in public discourse. ” Where did I say it was women keeping the issue suppressed? I said some feminists gender rape, and that helps suppress it but feminism is not a term limited to women. Methinks you assume too much of what I say. I’d prefer not to have strawman arguments used against me. “That is something that we men have done to ourselves–the concept holds that a man who is raped is somehow less of a man, because only… Read more »
David…The selective service argument is valid and frankly I am surprised that you are not better informed. The fact is men who wish to go to college and get funded must sign up with the draft under strict penalties.Women don’t have to do that. This is a major difference between how the sexes are made available for the military. For MANY poor white men and men of color, the military is the only viable chance they have to “make it.” For black men during the Civil war and WW1 and WW2, risking one’s life in service of “one’s country” was… Read more »
AND…cue the men to make this all about them.
Hello Sarah. Thanks for sharing your story. This article is based on a problematic premise. Maybe YOU personally directed your anger about your attacks towards all men, but that’s not what feminism is about, even angry feminism. “Angry feminists” doesn’t even really make sense. Anger isn’t a permanent state of being. If you’re angry at sexism when it occurs, then what’s wrong with that? Anger is a normal human reaction to injustice, inequality, violence, etc. Sexism (against men or women) makes me angry. So does racism. So does poverty. I am also a perfectly happy person much of the time… Read more »
From what I can see, the angry people are the ones that resent women fighting for their rights. But there sure is a lot of gaslighting out there. In this thread alone one man immediately shows up to talk about how we are not talking about men being raped (what does that have to do with this essay?), and a trans activist who is angry that women did not have to sign up for the draft (in a world where we do not have the same rights as men, so…). Well, to the trans activist, women do have to enlist… Read more »
lol, angry when it doesn’t occur, only your mind. This a passive aggressive oppressive self-important victim mentality aggravated angry feminist, ’tis an incredibly persistent condition indeed!!!
Jazz…you know,folks who think that only their pain and their hurt and their difficulties in life count more than that of others make things worse for everyone.
What the hell are you talking about?! I’m a 5x year old blackman living in America,what do you imagine I don’t already know and haven’t experienced about pain in America? Dear lord child are you for real? I’ve been robbed at gun point and had friends raped by a white WOMAN.You are presumptious even beyond fault. Why don’t people like yourself understand the nature of abuse and life? It’s like your stuck in in groundhog day.Women abuse too! I have just as many reasons to be concerned about my personal safety as you do.Your fears are no more important than… Read more »
You have much more reason to fear for your safety as a man as men make up the vast majority of victims of violence adn murder.
Not that it’s a contest anyway, because men being killed hardly invalidates the importance of violence against women, but in any case… which gender is mostly committing those murders?
Men aren’t killed, by women, because they are men, in anything like the numbers that women are killed around the world because they are women.
I would agree that women could do a better job on focusing on the things men do right and giving men credit for it. I don’t think this completely fixes the problem because we still need to talk about and be open to talking about the things men may do that aren’t great. But I also think that men are very senitive to the things they do that may hurt women that they are not very open to talking directly about these things. And that is just as much a problem as women not being open to talking more about… Read more »
Oh right, yes, my two male colleagues were really respectful and polite all day, not groping me or insulting me, at all, and I forgot to give them a special cookie and a pat on the head for it.
I mean they obviously didn’t give me a medal or a cookie or anything for being respectful to them, but that’s obviously completely different because.
Thank you. I am so sick of all these people trying to change the topic to all the things men suffer or how we need to be nicer to them for not raping or killing us.
Danny…the problem is Danny that these individuals who are benefiting from the doubt,” innocent” they may be, are directly linked to the values system that groups like Amnesty International and the UN base their principles around social justice for men and women.It is because of these individuals that these groups, inside and outside of America, have constructed their failed policies about rape, sex trafficking and DV. Do you really imagine that the POTUS positions on rape and DV and gender are incidental to the UN? Danny a unilateral multilevel movement is underway that is designed to solidify feminism as a… Read more »
Danny a unilateral multilevel movement is underway that is designed to solidify feminism as a international authority in the world. Electing a feminist president is a part of that plan. Although the truth is we already have the first feminist president in office now. They may not be actually trying to plan and push for it but it’s for damn sure on their wish list (mostly like because they have it in their minds that a feminist president is the only way to get things fixed). …and feminists interests took center stage in the election, trumping everything else.This was a… Read more »
Danny…Do you actually believe the chronic denial of the impact of violence committed by women is accidental…STILL? Damn,no wonder this car remains stalled on the side of the road.
Oh make no mistake when I said ‘You’re more patient than I am because at this point I’m almost convinced that people aren’t “misunderstanding the problem” anymore. They are actively twisting the problems around to fit their own predrawn conclusions.’ I meant that on a personal, one on one level. Meaning that I’m sure there are individual people that may not recognize how damaging it is. I’m still still willing to give them bit of benefit of doubt. But large organizations that supposedly exist for the sake of helping all victims? Hell no they know better by now. At this… Read more »
How many men a week die at the hands of a female partner please? Thanks.
I’ll give you an answer to that question as soon as you tell me your purpose in asking it.
I am interested to know whether it is greater or fewer than 2 a week in the UK.
I am interested because it’s quite important, don’t you think? You’re talking about how serious violence against men is – and I’d like to learn more about how many people die of it.
Just wanted to make sure you weren’t baiting me into a “but women have it worse” ploy.
Now as to your question I don’t know the numbers. But even without exact numbers it is clear that female against male violence is happening.
However I do notice that you mention killing when I and ogwriter were only talking violence (killing is a form of violence but not all violence is killing).
ht tp://www.ncdv.org.uk/maleDVweek.html According to this website it’s 1 every 3 weeks, not sure how many of those are female perpetrator.
http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/9/C/B/%7B9CBFDFE5-F9B2-4FEB-A14A-3166810B564F%7Dtandi255.pdf
In the AIC paper, 20% of the perpetrators were women.
Finding the data is tricky though since most tend to focus on women.
I don’t understand how focusing on all the things men do right ends violence against women. Men – and women for that matter – *should* do what”s right. That’s just bog standard human decency. We can show appreciation and gratitude to both men and women in our daily lives, but shifting our focus from the pandemic of male violence on this planet and focusing solely on all the good men do, handing out cookies for what is basic human decency? How is that going to solve male violence?
Violence isn’t going to be “solved.” We won’t ever see an end to violence; all we can ever hope for is a reduction in violence. If you see the problem as solely violence by men against women then you’re misunderstanding the problem. If you think pre-judging men as violent, and treating them as such, is going to help things, you’re misunderstanding the problem. If you think only focusing on the negative is going to lead to positive change, you misunderstand the problem. If you don’t understand about male alienation, then you’ll continue to misunderstand the problem. If you think calling… Read more »
It’s not a matter of prejudging. We are talking about violence by men against women, so we are talking about how to tackle the specific individuals who perpetrate it.
When you say “without addressing women”, in what ways do we need to “address” women in order to stop violence against women?
Actually up to 50% of DV is reciprocal last I checked, and the women who hit their partner FIRST were more likely to be injured more. Basically a lot of violence starts with a woman hitting a man, he hits back, his hits are stronger (though women do a lot of damage too, especially with weapons). So one of hte BEST things we could do to reduce violence against women is tell women NOT TO HIT MEN to avoid provoking a retaliation. If all women stopped hitting men, it would drastically reduce violence against women. Note, the other 50% or… Read more »
…but shifting our focus from the pandemic of male violence on this planet and focusing solely on all the good men do, handing out cookies for what is basic human decency? How is that going to solve male violence? Who said anything about focusing solely on all the good? Cookies? You know that whole “asking for cookies” thing does happen sometimes but it’s becomes such a cliche now that I’m seeing more people trying to dangle cookies over people’s heads in hopes they will reach for them (so they can then launch into preprogrammed “calls outs” about people asking for… Read more »
“Even in the subset of violence that is male agaist female there’s going to be more to what’s going on behind that violence than the latest theory on patriarchal violence that basically says, “he did it because he wants to control her”.”
Can you expand on this? Why else would someone bully, abuse, or beat their partner, besides control? Thanks.
I’m talking the difference between bullying someone because they want control over their relationship and bullying someone solely because they are a woman. In the former that person is going to bully and abuse no matter what gender identification their partner goes by.
Let me ask it this way.
When a woman is abusive to her man do we go on about how she wants to control men? Not just a generic want to control the life of her partner but actually say that she does it because she wants to control men?
When anyone bullies and abuses anyone it’s to control them.
But why are they controlling them? Is it because they belong to specific group? Is it because their victim simply exists within the abuser’s life, etc….
“When anyone bullies and abuses anyone it’s to control them.”
Reciprocal fighting differs here where both are trying to control each other, both abusive to each other. Far different to the line of thought of the patriarchal man of the house controlling his wife for instance.
Archy…The point I am trying to make Archy is that from the perspective of the other as it relates to dominant culture, whites are making some choices about how they approach bridging the racial divide that are hidden from view. These choices hide behind the mantel of fear of the black person, which instinctively many white people relate to instantly. You say that you are afraid of being called a racist. Why? What could possibly happen to you on an online chat venue? You can’t be sued, so whats up? Aren’t you equally afraid of being called sexist or anti… Read more »
Probably more confident speaking on gender issues, racial issues are still quite a mystery to me and I prefer to shutup n listen there whereas with gender I actually know quite a lot more, regularly talk about gender with both males n females. I guess I also see it as blacks being the minority so I feel I should let THEM speak more? Being called a racist would be annoying but it’s more that I don’t want to speak wrongly and end up pushing someone out because of it especially if I don’t know much about their issues.
It wont. Nor will seeing everything men do as wrong, we’ve been giving women a free pass on their violence for 30 years and it hasn’t reduced it, it’s increased it. Violence is committed by people, and their violence has to be addresssed, but it is not committed by all people nor is it committed by a single gender. If you want to reduce violence (as opposed to just jumping up and down about it and projecting it onto the opposite sex) you need to understand what it is and what causes it, and that isn’t gender.
Look, don’t get me wrong,it is a good thing that Sarah realizes that all men aren’t baseless animals,it really is. But if someone else, let’s say a recent immigrant, said to you that ,”You know I used to hate all Americans because of what one American did to me,” would you be so empathic and sensitive to them? The obvious downside to what Saran admitted is that it reveals just how desperate men have become for affirmation. It is such a low bar.
I think you’ve got to understand the context of patriarchy here, ogwriter. Imagine being constantly taught that all men are threats– that we need to be careful not to be assaulted, be careful not to be raped, that we need to look attractive because men have “power” inherently are our sexuality is our “power”, but if we look “too sexy” we’re asking to get hurt and we’re called bad names… Imagine constantly having to look behind you when walking, carrying pepper spray and keeping your keys between your knuckles, having to fear being stalked if you’re “too nice” to the… Read more »
You really think men don’t also feel they aren’t strong enough to deal with an unprovoked attack? (Most men aren’t.) That they don’t have to wolverine their keys into their fist for reassurance while walking home? I’ve done that more times than I’d care to mention. There was an article on GMP recently to that effect (specifically about the habit of improvising your keys into a weapon). Perhaps you should read it. Funny thing is, we’re able to deal with it without managing to demonise an entire gender or come up with some silly concept like “rape culture”. In fact,… Read more »
OirishM Of course many are not aware of what men go through. The fact that a man is more likely to suffer random physical violence is lost on most females. Also, rape is a more visceral type of violence, so it seems to command more of the attention or compassion. Getting your skull bashed in with a beer mug or metal bar could definately hurt or possibly kill you but it isnt as bad as getting raped, right? I think the number one cause of death for young black men in America is murder but it sure doesnt seem to… Read more »
I walk around wolverine style, especially at night. I don’t think many people really understand that the majority of random physical attacks in public are against men.
It’s not a matter of men versus women but since you’re framing it that way – who is doing the murdering and bashing in of men’s skulls, mostly? Women? Or men? You don’t think someone getting their skull bashed in would get sympathy? Really? I have never heard of people being blamed for what they wore or what they drank or how they acted for getting their skull bashed in with a beer mug or metal pole. Or of police being told to discourage people from reporting those assaults. Can you explain when this happens, with links, thanks. Oh, and… Read more »
If you do your research, rather than relying on feminist propaganda sites, you will discover that over 30% of the victims of domestic homicide are men, at the hands of women. You would also discover that men are the victims of domestic violence 50% of the time – its just that men don’t report it for fear of being (1) arrested (2) laughed at (3) ignored. Women are also violent, to men and to each other. And if you find yourself having to report violence against you, or seeking protection against violence, you will find that it is mostly men… Read more »
Yes I am perfectly aware of that thanks for your condescending and completely random assumption. So 70% are not men at the hands of women, yes? Yes, women are violent too. Who says they’re not? Who says “women good, men bad” please? If YOU do some research I think you’ll find that this is not a feminist view at all. Please quote with links all these representative feminists says women are good and men are bad. Thanks. If you think challenging domestic violence when it happens and criticising those who do it is vilifying all men then that says a… Read more »
You do not represent all feminists. I have clearly heard from some feminists “All men are rapists” “All PIV sex is rape” “Men start ALL the wars”, etc. Why is your version of feminism correct and theirs isn’t? “I have never heard of people being blamed for what they wore or what they drank or how they acted for getting their skull bashed in with a beer mug or metal pole.” I’ve heard men be told they were idiots for walking alone at night, heard they were idiots for getting drunk near a woman and being raped by that woman.… Read more »
Feminists may not explicitly espouse such views, but they insist on challenging traditional ways of valuing men while refusing to allow men to challenge traditional ways of valuing women. It is really better to be obedient to the law? More men are criminals. If you value the first, and believe the second, what does that mean? Men are not allowed to ‘make up’ for any of the ways in which they are clearly doing more damage to the world on the feminist scorecard. Actually saying, yes, men are more often criminals, but *also more often heroic* is considered sexist by… Read more »
Also, I meant to say “wear.”
Can I ask how much have you engaged with the topic of rape culture?
I used to think it sounded crazy but the more I learned, the more I changed my mind.
I’m not wild about the terminology personally, but what it refers to, I absolutely recognise. And we DO need to be able to talk about it.
well I don’t blame you for feeling that, but don’t blame me ( or us, men ) either for not feeling bad because of your fear of men. If a woman run away after seeing me and she think I’m a rapist, why would I feel bad? Its her problem, not me. Let her run. I know I’m not a rapist so I don’t care. So you women can fear men anywhere anytime you want, thinking all of us are rapist and mindless simple minded creatures, because I DON’T CARE. I’m happy with my life and with ONE woman I… Read more »
First, Sarah…thank you for sharing. You not only made some excellent points. You touched on some very important issues between the lines as it were. Women who have been hurt by men and then turn angry. Who walk with suspicion of every man. Become abusers of innocent people. So many times in my life, I have been victimized by a woman remembering the ghost of another man in her memory that was not me. In doing so, you do nothing but further the damage done to you and spread it to others. I am a human being, not a born… Read more »
No reason you can’t be BOTH an angry feminist AND love men. They are not inherently mutually exclusive. Perhaps rare in practice, but not impossible.
Exactly. my husband and I are angry feminists and I ADORE men, and hate seeing them hurt by patriarchal notions about how men are supposed to be. I love my kind gentle father, my flamboyantly gay (and smarter than anyone else in the world) younger brother, my gentle youngest brother who stood up to a boy who was trying to kiss a girl without her consent but worries that girls won’t like him because he’s not big and macho, my beautiful androgynous sweet as sugar and tough as nails husband. I love all these men and more.
Now that you love men, do you now love your attackers? Or do you still have the same hatred for them, and the act they committed? Are you OK with it happening to someone else? Does the thought that there are women to whom the exact same thing happened to, make you happy now? Bad news hun, just because you love men now, doesn’t mean you get to ignore the problem. You’re husband is a better example of a feminist than you: Working toward protecting women, and ending a culture that focuses on “getting over it” and ignores the real… Read more »
Wow, PJ, that’s unnecessarily asinine. But yes, to answer your question, she probably does have to forgive those who hurt her eventually, because that’s a pain only she may/may not be carrying around. It’s called allowing ourselves to move on and experience the rest of life. You can’t expect the universe to always settle scores. And what would be settling scores? To have those men raped? The grandfather is probably dead or close to it. Did you forget: “Forgive our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.” I’m a fervent atheist, and even I can see the wisdom… Read more »
Fair. I think it’s important that we have a common definition of feminist, so that we are all discussing the same topic. This is Merriam Websters definition: 1. the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2. organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests Is your definition different? What does “feminist” mean to you personally? Would you add anything, or take anything away from this definition? How does it compare to the definition used in a majority of popular media? How does it compare to the definition used by the author? Personally I would… Read more »
I dont know, this is the second article in a relative short time of a person who turned away from feminism because negatives on the opposite gender and themselves (cant find the link of the other article). Both of them have their own reasons for doing such, but both of them in the end became wiser and outgrow their issues. In both cases feminism had a ambivalent role in their lifes and that means also a negative one. “1. the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2. organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and… Read more »
Yeah, I haven’t fully formed my personal ideas on the first one. I was only going to include the second one only, but didn’t want to leave out part of the definition given, for fear of appearing to alter the information to fit my own point.
I like a nice, clean debate, with honesty, and constructive points! (ノ^⌣^)ノ*:・゚✧ *:・゚✧*:・゚
So, following that definition, do you think that, given the limited interpretation of what the author considered to be feminist, that she fits the definition?
The title of the article is most often chosen by the editors, not the author.
Plus, the title says she stopped being an “angry feminist,” not a “feminist.” From reading the article, I take that to mean she stopped seeing men in general as negative and started recognizing that there are a number of men who have played and continue to play a positive role in her life.
The title of the article says she stopped being a feminist: So she stopped “organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests” and “political, economic, and social equality of the sexes” I think you’re the one that’s adding to the definition. It didn’t say that she stopped doing those things. I believe what is going on here is something I see pretty often. A bit of a shell game (where the person that’s moving the shells gets to move them around again after they have stopped and person playing has picked where they think it is). You quoted the… Read more »
Thanks for the article Sarah, nice one 🙂
“my friend crying because she was used for sex but wants something more” frankly I’ve seen women do this to men as much as men do it to women, and it has more to do with the bad judgement of the people getting into bed than it does the man trying to use the woman. Both genders are capable of forming strong emotional attachment due to sex and yeah it feels pretty crappy to be used. But that’s not a thing exclusive to women. When a guy has a new girl every week chances are he’s not going to stick… Read more »
This started out as a feel good story of men supported women, and turned into world war 3. This whole feminism thing is an outdated white middle class uni students concept. I’m of West Indian parentage, and the strongest person I know is my mother. She worked, fought, and sacrificed, but she did not fight behind the shield of feminism, she was a mother, the strongest beings on the planet. Black people have been under paid, over worked and abused for many years now, but there are black doctor, lawyers, CEO and of course a Black President now, so we… Read more »
Silverfox, I very much agree with your sentiments, especially the last paragraph there.
What’s the chartroom equivalent of ‘standing ovation’?
I am so glad that you are no longer experiencing that constant anger towards all men anymore.
Sarah, I wish you nothing but happiness in your new found freedom.
Thanks for sharing.
What a beautiful article. Thank you, Sarah, for saying what men are really about. Acknowledgements like yours are few and far between but go a long way to heal the wounds we men have suffered by our vilification. We are indeed caring and loving and nurturing. I thank your brother, your husband and your college friend for being there when you needed them and for your recognition or their caring and their love.
This was an excellent article, and a perfect place for it. I like this site just for this reason, there are too few places that exemplify all of the good qualities that men have.
It’s wonderful that you have great men in your life, and your article is definitely encouraging for those who may not have experienced such support.
Hi 5 Sarah to your Enliven project, especially to see 1 in 4 women AND 1 in 6 men stat being put in, often many campaigns to end sexual violence ignore males so it’s heartwarming to see them talked about.
My favorite part, “My husband taught me that love can be a constant fuel. He taught me that you can get angry, have conflict, resolve it, and love each other throughout. He taught me to love myself, and care for myself. He takes care of me despite my fierce independence.”
Sounds like a good man, with a lot of love to give. I’m glad you let him into your heart..
Well said.
I love this. Thank you, Sarah, for your stand for men, particularly since you’re a woman who’d be justifiably angry and spiteful towards all men for the rest of your life (and get lots of support for your position!), and that you’re not doing that, is SUCH a gift to everyone. Men everywhere – EVERYWHERE – are devastated because women they care about have been, or are being, abused by men. These men, if they could do it and get away with it, would straighten out in these bad men in a back alley somewhere. It would help them deal… Read more »
“particularly since you’re a woman who’d be justifiably angry and spiteful towards all men for the rest of your life”
What extent of abuse would a man have to face at the hands of a woman to be angry and spiteful towards all women for the rest of his life? How much mistreatment would you accept from such a man?
That’s not even the point Drew. Kate has stopped making sense before she started. If I open a bottle of water and it tastes weird, should I assume all bottled water is bad? Of course not. Sometimes, you are your only roadblock. And I should know that better than anyone. I spent over 10 years of my life punishing myself for something I did, something bad, to someone I loved, before I even knew that what I did was bad. But Kate has every right to be angry, I guess. It is a free country, after all. I don’t agree… Read more »
Perhaps, perhaps not.
If you kept on opening up bottles of water and some were fine but many were not, I doubt that even you would continue to buy the same brand. And that is the point. In history, as in now, TOO many bottles of water fail to make the cut and are unpleasant to the point that you start to assume that most, if not all, are no damn good.
Does the same logic apply for men, toward women? If you met a man who was “angry and resentful” toward you simply because you are a woman, would you consider him a misogynist jerk, or make allowances for his rudeness and hostility because he had been abused by other women?
No chances are under that circumstances said man would be told that he was taking the mistreatment he suffered at the hands of women too personally and needs to correct himself. On the other hand swap that and then you have a woman that is justifiably angry at the men who have oppressed her all her life. (Think I’m playing? Look at how sympathetic people got over the case of Aileen Wuornos. Has there ever been such a case where a man that went on a killing spree was offered such sympathy and compassion because of a hard upgringing? Or… Read more »
I fail to see how most of Kate’s examples give “reasons” for Misandry. So what if someone makes a sexual comment about a person in a magazine? Those models are used to sell sex appeal. That comes with the territory. Both men and women are subject to that. Haven’t you bothered to see David Beckham all over underwear ads for H&M, or did you conveniently ignore that? I’m not looking at that advert for very long, so he’s being hypersexualized for straight women, and possibly gay men. If Megan Fox models women’s underwear, how is her plight somehow more arduous… Read more »
Mike Russo, I presume you comment ““I thought feminism was a collective conscious line of thought distilled from discussions numerous groups of women in order to bring their concerns more to the conversations of culture, and to not let anyone prevent them from being heard” was toward Kate? Isn’t that what Kate did to Sarah and all the others that supported her view?
Kate and Mike…So then because I am a black person I have the right to be angry at all white people for the rest of my life, not even close!? The point should be that no one no matter how egregiously one feels they have been hurt has the right to say or act like the world revolves around them; it is only your hurt and it is no more or less important than anyone else’s who has ever tried to live on this planet..What kind of ego believes that they are so important that their hurt is so special… Read more »
Drew:
I think its easier for women to dislike men than the other reason. Men are more forgiving I think.
Some of us abused before we knew what that meant, and have spent the last 11 years of our lives feeling like monsters. I tried to kill myself 3 times. I dated women who treated me like garbage because I thought I deserved to be treated like garbage. Am I just someone to condemn? I don’t want to hurt anyone any more, but if I am irredeemable as you say, what is my incentive to love , and not hurt, again?
Not sure I understand what you’re saying. I don’t think I’m equipped to respond to that either. Except to say, don’t kill yourself, don’t hurt anyone else and keep it together.
“Thank you, Sarah, for your stand for men, particularly since you’re a woman who’d be justifiably angry and spiteful towards all men for the rest of your life (and get lots of support for your position!), and that you’re not doing that, is SUCH a gift to everyone.”
No, it’s not justifiable to be misandrist. If you do that and men harmed by women do the same you just get this stupid cycle of misandry n misogyny bouncing off each other. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
It’s not justifiable to be MISANDRIST..,
It’s not justifiable to and by whom exactly? I’m feel very justified in my intense dislike of stereotypical male characteristics and behaviour.
The day that I see a forum where men BERATE each other for their intense misogyny is the day I my dislike starts to lessen. Misogynists are often applauded in group comments. But, a woman just mentions even slight disapproval of men and she’s hounded. Now I’m not saying mine is slight disapproval – it’s full on. But I’ve seen it.
I’m feel very justified in my intense dislike of stereotypical female characteristics and behaviour.
The day that I see a forum where women BERATE each other for their intense misandrism is the day I my dislike starts to lessen. Misandrists are often applauded in group comments. But, a man just mentions even slight disapproval of women and he’s hounded. Now I’m not saying mine is slight disapproval – it’s full on. But I’ve seen it.
I’ve seen men berate others for misogyny but usually misogynists won’t berate each other for it, why would they? I’ve seen far less women berate others for misandry however.
You can hate stereotypical male characteristics if you want, just don’t hate ALL men for it. I hate SOME of the stereotypical male characteristics, and same for females, but I do like some of them yet think they shouldn’t be limited to a gender.
Karen Jones, What I really liked about your post -whether or not one sees the world & the men in it as positively as you do, or no- was that it was aspirational: When you give people the benefit of the doubt (within reason and wisdom, of course), when you set good, positive (even lofty) expectations for people, they’re more likely to want and to try to live up to them. I want to be a better person when people treat me that way. Thanks. Alternatively, when someone just roles out a laundry list of ways ‘this stereotype group’ (in… Read more »
Oh my god. Boring! Talk about a lot of hot air and NO substance. I’m sorry. I just think 3 lines would have sufficed from you. ‘I agree with the writer’ ‘I disagree with Kate’ ‘I wish the world was a better place’ I’m a MISANDRIST – that is the way I feel. And I have my reasons. I came on here to express that, have an argument or two, a discussion. You don’t have to agree with me. You have the right to be offended. But I’m just one person and an anonymous one at that. I hate men.… Read more »
You came to a masculist site, as a misandrist, specifically to express that you hate men, and to have “an argument or two”.
And now you’re acting like an ass because the men here are actually arguing with you?
I have an idea. Go away. Go be an angry feminist somewhere else.
“Oh my god. Boring! Talk about a lot of hot air and NO substance……” was Kates response to Mostly_123. Looks like a personal attack to me ….
I agree with Tom here – please ban this troll, her presence is not conducive to anything. GMP is wonderful in it’s position of allowing both men and women to dicsuss gender/social politics, but she has clearly admitted to coming here only to troll, why continue to allow a voice?
Done, thanks for your patience.
“I’m a MISANDRIST – that is the way I feel. And I have my reasons”
Great- but you’re one of most ineffective and least persuasive advocates for your viewpoint that I’ve come across. Never be a martyr to your own cause. That’s boring too.
(Or, perhaps, are you just an anti-feminist troll trying to discredit feminism by playing the feminist straw-man? I wonder…) The end.
I suspected the same thing, that this is an anti-feminist caricature, but it’s probably just what happens to most forms of sincere extremism, it turns into a parody of itself.
Thank you for this courageous and important article. Rape hurts everyone: http://bit.ly/USE1Jt
“we have to stop talking about all the things men do wrong, and start talking about all the things that men do right.” this is a rediculously simplified solution to the problem. although i could agree, that we do need to applaud men more on what they do right, especially if they are doing things right, but we dont need to forget or “stop talking” about their wrongs. in fact, i would argue the opposite, we barely talk about them at all. maybe a lot of feminists are having these conversations at home with their partners, society is not having… Read more »
Every day in the media is talk of what men do wrong. Perhaps if the mainstream media did the same thing to women every day you would change your tune.
Are you serious? Mainstream media is as sexist as it gets. The issue is that it has become so ingrained into our world view, we don’t notice it. Little things like blonde, svelte under 30 TV presenters next to balding old males. Makeover shows – for women. Wife-swap NOT husband swap. Outcries by male film critics when Lena Durham (an average overweight actress) is seen dating a hot man. Game show clone models. Page 3 models. The limited roles for women in film – sexy being the first & foremost role they need to fulfil. Could go on but the… Read more »
Clearly your hatred of men is showing because all you can see is what you want to see. I’m not going to bother giving a whole lot of counterpoints to your examples, I’m just going to give one: the ladies on “The Talk” laughing about a man that had his penis cut off and thrown in a garbage disposal by his wife because she was “suspicious”. That they could do that and get away with a half assed apology speaks volumes. Now ask yourself, what would the response have been if the situation had been reversed and a group of… Read more »
Pete, the media is damn sexist against everyone.
I agree that we need to spend MORE time talking about the good a gender does otherwise it simply leads others to believe that gender is far more negative than the reality.
Thank you, Sarah, for writing this heartfelt essay… Yes, it is cathartic to get angry and be vocal about past or present offenses ( it seems like everyday there is some new person trying to do something totally sh-tty)… Anyway, what gets me through the days now are (1) my therapist who I give a hug to every time I see her in my doctor’s office, (2) my reformed hubby (who is making an effort not to be so self- involved and oblivious to me and the family… His ex- drinking buddy be damned!), (3) my karate Sensei ( who… Read more »
Mark and Tom, I couldn’t agree more. When we look for love, we find it everywhere. Talking about love requires us to find the values we share, which is the start of real dialogue on hard issues like sexual violence.
I’m not ready to discount feminism just yet though. Just like there are all kinds of men, there are also all kinds of feminists.
Thank you both for your thoughts and comments!
“Just like there are all kinds of men, there are also all kinds of feminists.”
This 1,000,000 times.
You’ve come a long way, sister.
This article’s comment pages are full of wild generalities used to justify largely no constructive message or point. I think this should be labeled a logical fallacy. Maybe it is and I’m not aware of it. And make sure we remember that men and feminists are not always separate groups. For some of us are feminists, and go through the effort to challenge ourselves to be better everyday.
Mike
Thanks for an elegant and simple truth, that we grow what we focus on in the world. While we MUST continue to oppose brutality in all its forms, we have an equal obligation to grow the positive stories in our lives. Your story of your husband’s love is a simple beautiful thing. The arguments about statistics, will never end. What we need more of is stories of why and how love redeems us all.