These are comments by Shoutybloke and mayfly on the post “Thoughts on ‘Creep’“.
Shoutybloke said:
“‘Creep’ and ‘creepy’ aren’t useful words because they describe an emotional response, rather than behavior that triggered that response. Telling someone ‘You’re a creep’ isn’t useful, it gives that person no information with which to modify their undesieable behavior. Telling someone ‘That guy’s creepy’ is likewise useless, It’s a stronger way of saying ‘I don’t like that guy’ without giving any information about WHY he’s considered a threat; it’s simply a call for ostracism based on emotion.
mayfly said:
“I’m fairly frustrated by the argument that the word ‘creep’ is sometimes used against people who are perfectly innocent, thus we should stop using it (not that Ozy is saying that here, just that it seems to pop up a lot.)
“All insults are used inappropriately sometimes. A guy called me an asshole for parking (legally, not blocking anything or taking up multiple spots) in front of his house the other day while I dropped off something for a friend. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to go out and start saying we need to ban the word in order to curb ‘asshole-shaming.’ It just means that humans are humans and sometimes throw insults or labels at people who don’t deserve them.
“And if you can think of a better word than ‘creep’ for the guy who drove slowly alongside me for a block, leaning out the window and hissing ‘nice, nice, nice, nice’ as I biked to the grocery store on Saturday, I’d like to hear it. Because that was motherflippin’ creepy.”
More Comments of the Day
Photo credit: Flickr / Amy Loves Yah
As Alberich illustrates above a woman in our society can take liberties (or “violate boundaries”) with a man and the man is just expected to take it. But if a man does something similar to a woman, not only can she call him out, but she can make a false accusation against the man, suggesting that the man is some sort of sexual predator and dangerous (and have this false accusation taken seriously by society). Obviously this shows a vast power difference between men and women. Has any woman coped to this and said, yes, there’s a vast power difference,… Read more »
“But if a man does something similar to a woman, not only can she call him out, but she can make a false accusation against the man, suggesting that the man is some sort of sexual predator and dangerous (and have this false accusation taken seriously by society).” When women come forward making a claim of sexual assault they are pretty much always treated to insinuations that she’s making a false claim for selfish reasons. Are women more able to report and react to physical assaults from men than men are to women? Yes. Are women more likely to be… Read more »
You appear to be attacking a strawman. Could you respond to what I actually said please? Do you agree that there’s a vast power difference between men and women here, with women having vastly more power? Do you agree that when a woman calls a man a “creep” she is using her power to attack a person with far less power? Do you agree that when a powerful person attacks a powerless person that is called bullying? Do you agree that when a woman intimates that a man is some sort of sexual predator by calling him “creepy” when he… Read more »
A male friend of mine was hit on at a bar by a drunk “cougar” who was there with her boyfriend. She talked about being a swinger and kept telling my friend how cute he was. When he told me the story, he said she was “creepy.”. So women can be creepy, although I agree it is more commonly used to describe men. I disagree that “creepy” always connotes a physical threat. I think it often just connotes someone who displays inappropriate sexual interest in an awkward way. I agree women should avoid using this term to denigrate socially awkward… Read more »
The physical threat is by the woman not the man. I am saying that calling a man creepy is a potential physical threat. It’s a false accusation against the man by the woman to paint him as a sexual deviant of some kind who is dangerous. So in the example you gave of a man sitting next to you in a coffee shop when you are reading and addressing you. You said that could be creepy. If a woman made that accusation out loud in the coffee shop then I’d say that was an appeal towards violence. When a woman… Read more »
Actuaali I said the opposite. Being interrupted whike reading in a coffee shop is irritating, not creepy . Being followed by a guy trying to look up my skirt is creepy.
*Actually. Sorry, iphone
Or equivalent behavior, like a stranger snuggling up to me in the coffee shop. Talking is fine but don’t invade my space
“As Alberich illustrates above a woman in our society can take liberties (or “violate boundaries”) with a man and the man is just expected to take it.”
Wait a minute, so men don’t demand that strange women “smile!” to appear more pleasant to them? Male-on-female street harrassment isn’t common enough to conclude that women are just expected to “take it”? ‘Bitch,’ ‘prude,’ tease,’ ‘ice-queen,’ etc., aren’t terms used to describe women that dare not just “take” certain behavior?
“we allow women to claim to feel “threatened” by entirely non-violent behaviour by a man.” If one of the scenarios described above happened to me (someone following alongside me slowly in their car for a block catcalling me, or two men trying to sandwich me between them) of course I would feel threatened! Just like you would feel threatened by someone following you down an alley in a bad part of town on a dark night… no, they haven’t done anything violent to you YET but their actions are consistent with someone who has no compunctions about being violent. Likewise,… Read more »
I met a woman the other day who obviously had some sort of mental issues. She was breach boundaries to everyone in the area. Just going up to strangers and talking to them as if she had known them her whole life. Had she been a man she’d have been called creepy and the cops would have been called on her. But she was a woman so people pitied her and humoured her. Nobody got angry, nobody got scared or tried to humiliate her or get her arrested. They had compassion because she was a woman, and not a man.… Read more »
“Had she been a man she’d have been called creepy and the cops would have been called on her.” What city/town are you in? Because that matters. I spent four years in NYC and I saw all kinds of mentally ill people doing all sorts of things that could be considered “creepy.” I never once saw a cop called to do anything about anyone who wasn’t actually dangerous. Actually, when I was telling this very conservative male friend of mine about how most of the “creepy” types I saw in New York really were mostly harmless, he started talking about… Read more »
I think the whole topic is strongly gendered. Usually the articles and comments on “creep” are strictly from a female perspective, I have often a hard time relating to the people who felt creeped out. For example: Linnea:“When the woman is sitting alone quietly reading a book, etc., and the man comes over and demands her attention as if it’s his right.” I have been in the situation in the woman and I don’t mind if people approach me, ask me something or try to start a conversation. In my opinion people have the right to approach me when I… Read more »
Julie, I don’t if you will read this, but thank you for your reaction. To answer your question: “What if instead of kissing you on the cheeks and moving away (I’m assuming this falls into the standard time limit of about 5-7 seconds and most handshakes and hugs and social interactions like that usually have a time limit though it varies by culture) she held onto your shoulders and wouldn’t let go for longer than the socially sanctioned period of time.” This wouldn’t really bother me, but make me think what she wants to tell me, by this extraordinary behaviour.… Read more »
I tend to get a little irritated when someone interrupts me when I’m obviously busy or occupied with smething personal, like reading a book in a coffee shop. Just because I’m in a public place doesn’t mean I’m fair game. That said, I am only “creeped out” if the person keeps talking to me when I make it obvious I don’t want to talk AND they do something “creepy” like sitting too close or making inappropriate remarks.
Actually, I think the term bitch for women is analogous to the word creep for men. Sometimes it fits the situation, but other times it’s simply a way of ostracising someone who isn’t conforming to your expected gender norms. It’s all in how you use it.
I never thought of it like that, but I completely agree with the comparison to ‘bitch.’ There are some situations where a woman is called a bitch for no good reason. She isn’t one for smiling, is cold/awkward, just rubs you the wrong way, or is assertive. Then there are situations where she’s genuinely being a bitch. She’s purposely cruel, angry for no reason, sabotages others, or tries to push stuff on unwilling people. Same thing goes for ‘creep.’ There are some situations where a guy is called a creep and it’s completely unwarranted. He doesn’t quite look right, is… Read more »
And ‘bitch’ is inherently gendered.
Well it seems I am not allowed to comment on the WhatAbout..? blog part of the site so let me say here…. When a woman calls a man creepy it’s a lot more than just saying she doesn’t like him, although I think it is is basically a reaction against men who the woman thinks are failing in the male role of having to initiate (and all that comes down to is that she doesn’t fancy him and is annoyed at him). It’s a lot worse. I would say that “creep” is like a sort of miniature false accusation of… Read more »
David, while I see your comment as interesting and thoughtful, I suspect it will be more or less futile. In my experience the discussions between feminists and gender egalitarian men about the usage of the word creep do not go anywhere, like both sides would be immune to the other sides arguments. I do not know why that is (maybe because they have different experiences or because they hold different ethical values), but this site is still called the good men project, hence I propose we focus on men. Being aware that the slur creep often hurts and ostracizes many… Read more »
I don’t mind it if a girl call me creepy to my face. I think what most men are afraid of is women calling men creepy to other people. Its more a reputation issue than a problem with the insult itself. Its similar to slut.
In fact I usually LIKE to get called creepy by a girl, especially if she says it right to me.
Examples of “Creepy Behavior”:
(1) Guy walking ahead of me as I’m walking home today from the train station suddenly stops in his tracks and takes a picture of himself with me in the background with his iPhone (needless to say, I quickly walked away from him!)
(2) 2 guys on the subway talking loudly to each other and trying to sandwich me in between them…I had to step away in an arc to avoid their hands-y gestures….Ick!