“…it has also highlighted disparity in the law of rape, which makes it impossible for a woman to be accused of the crime.”
-New Zealand Herald
The New Zealand Herald is reporting that an 11-year-old boy fathered a child after sex with a school friend’s 36-year-old mother.
The Herald reports:
The case has caused counsellors working in the area of child sexual abuse to highlight the lack of attention given to women as potential offenders.
It has prompted Justice Minister Judith Collins to step in saying she will seek more information on the law. “This case raises an important point. I will seek advice from officials on whether or not a law change is required.”
And it has also highlighted disparity in the law of rape, which makes it impossible for a woman to be accused of the crime.
Present legislation stipulates the crime of rape applies only when men force sex. Both carry a maximum sentence of 20 years but only men can be charged with rape. In contrast, women who force an unwilling partner to have sex face charges of sexual violation.
The case is prompting serious questions about what is termed “forced envelopment”. Rape statistics world wide do not currently include data on forced envelopment, which is what occurs when a boy or man is forced to penetrate against their will.
The Herald is also reporting the following:
The principal said he was shocked when the child revealed the details.
The boy approached him in his office about two-thirds of the way through the 2012 school year and told the principal he had a disclosure to make.
“You won’t be very happy with me,” he recalled the boy saying. He said he had been having sex with his friend’s mother “and it needs to stop”.
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad freeThe principal said the boy was “very aware” of the situation he was in and determined he wanted the contact to end.
The Weekend Herald was told that the contact between the boy and the woman began about April last year, when the boy was aged 11. The woman’s son took a day off school and encouraged his friend to do likewise, spending the day at his home.
During the course of the day, the woman gave the boy beer to drink and then later took part in a sexual encounter with him.
I wonder when the society will finally learn that women RAPE to.
And I dont care about definitions, IMO non consensual sex is rape. perios. Who or what gender is in question is totally irrelevant.
And I’d imagine only a case of sexual assault against a boy – not a man – would be required to get people to change their mind on this one.
He’s not a fully mature Agent Of The Patriarchy, so some sympathy still exists for him.
Cheap shot. There are many feminists who care about men, too. Even if there weren’t, you may not have noticed, but we do not in fact run the world.
Call it cheap if you want but its true. When it comes to support/help/sympathy for males abuse/assaulted by females there’s a shelf life and it expires right around adulthood.
But this is not exclusive to feminists (who OirishM never mentioned).
1) It’s not true. Do you think male victims of sexual or physical assult by male perpetrators have it easier? There is not a shelf life for sympathy. There’s a whole world full of assholes, but it’s not the entire population, nor is it dependent on genitalia.
2) No, he didn’t say “feminists” verbatim, he just made a snide reference to “Agents of the Patriarchy.” Have you never heard the term “context clues?” You’re right that brushing off male victims and survivors is not exclusive to feminists. It’s also not exclusive to women.
Do you think male victims of sexual or physical assult by male perpetrators have it easier? I am making no such comparison to male against male assaults. I am pointing out the difficulty when it comes to female against male assaults. Male victims of male perps have difficulties but they are different difficulties (for instance while males assaulted by females get the “you’re so lucky!” treatment males assaulted by males are more likely get the “if you didn’t fight them off that must mean you’re gay” treatment). There is not a shelf life for sympathy. There’s a whole world full… Read more »
@ Megan I almost challenged his statement too, but I think it’s a matter of degrees and special circumstances. I think there would be some sympathy for a man raped by a woman if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was raped (he didn’t want it), he could show that he was unable to fight back (unfair, but I’m sure society would require it), and if it could be proven that she acted maliciously and with intent (She wasn’t doing him a favor). I think the thresh hold for getting sympathy for a man and… Read more »
I would agree, myself, that males who are sexually assaulted receive less sympathy than women. What I took umbrage to was the implication that women in general and feminists in particular think this is a good thing because men are just so evil. A Bell Hooks quote popped up in my Facebook feed just before I saw this reply: “To be ‘feminist’ in any authentic sense of the term is to want for all people, female and male, liberation from sexist role patterns, domination, and oppression.” That definitely applies to situations like this. I’m afraid I don’t know about SFU’s… Read more »
I’ll retract the generalisation as being technically incorrect (a generalisation which didn’t extend to women, by the way – feminists at most), but in effect it is true. Those making the changes to laws involving gender and sex crimes are by and large feminist (which is why this “but but but we HAVE no power” doesn’t jive), and they are feminists who show no interest in men’s issues. It’s not aftereffects of patriarchy. This is their own ideology in play – and laying it at the feet of patriarchy is just an attempt to disown responsibility of feminism for propagating… Read more »
I really, really wish you were wrong about that, but you’re not. All I can say is that the “nicer feminists,” as you call us, are finally starting to push back. In recent decades the feminist movement became a horrific charicature of itself, but we do seem to be getting back on track.
I’m hopeful, at any rate.
And thanks for pushing back.
All too often criticism of feminism from the outside is deflected with chirping, “But they aren’t all like!” (which by their own brand of hypocritical logic is something only they can do). Nice to see there are those that are pushing back as you say.
Thanks. We’re still badly outnumbered, but gaining traction.
I realise such feminists exist, and I’m at least glad of that. But to me it feels like we’re still in many respects expected to join up with a movement that has a severe identity crisis on its hands, and I personally don’t see the point in doing so while that problem persists. Feminism is a hodgepodge of differing ideologies to begin with, but broadly speaking it seems like it’s split between people who think it should be a women’s issues only movement, and those who think it’s about addressing all gender issues. And even then, in that latter category,… Read more »
All good points. I only wish more of my “sisters” were willing to hear them.
@ Megan “What I took umbrage to was the implication that women in general and feminists in particular think this is a good thing because men are just so evil” A lot of that is the way that feminists talk about rape in general. There was an enliven infographic on rapists and there wasn’t a single rapist with a skirt. http://feministing.com/2013/01/07/graph-of-the-day-why-do-we-keep-talking-about-false-rape-accusations/ The CDC estimates that about 40% of the rapes committed in 2009 were women raping men. The CDC uses the FBI term forced to penetrate, not rape, and those don’t include prison rapes where the DOJ reports that about… Read more »
I had no idea the numbers were that high. Not sure how I feel about that.
That said, I’m losing track of the conversation, I think. What relevance did this post have to mine?
I think there would be some sympathy for a man raped by a woman if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was raped (he didn’t want it), he could show that he was unable to fight back (unfair, but I’m sure society would require it), and if it could be proven that she acted maliciously and with intent (She wasn’t doing him a favor). Do we hold females that have been raped by males to those same conditions for sympathy? I know that as soon as the claim is made the sympathy (and nastiness) starts… Read more »
@ Danny “Do we hold females that have been raped by males to those same conditions for sympathy?” We don’t. That’s what makes it unfair. Not that the standards aren’t there, but that they are different and nearly impossible for someone to meet. For example, many of the victims of Jerry Sandusky and the pedophile priests came out as men. I don’t remember them being vilified. They got sympathy, but their inability to fight back was explained, they were children. Again it’s not fair. I’m not advocating for a situation that is not fair. I simply recognize it as existing.… Read more »
Yes I do agree that its not absolute, which I should have mentioned.
I’m not so sure that women aren’t frequently held to those same standards. Again, I cite Steubenville.
Sympathy for rape victims – full stop – in this country seems to be dependent on how close you are to them, personally. Victim-blaming is disgusting in any circumstance.
Well about that case there were sources on both sides of spectrum, one that was siding with those boys and one that was siding with the victim. Also even though there were mainstream media sources that sided with those boys Im pretty sure that for the part it was supportive of the girl.
Sympathy for rape victims – full stop – in this country seems to be dependent on how close you are to them, personally. Victim-blaming is disgusting in any circumstance.
I also think political ideology plays a roll as well.
I think you’re dead on about ideology.
Your point about media sympathy was really driven home this morning, Danny. I was on Facebook and saw an article about a 13 year old schoolboy who was cornered on a bus, bound with duct tape, and “sodomized with a pencil.” The headline called him a victim of hazing.
The article itself was so trigger-heavy I couldn’t even read it, but I shared it nonetheless with a comment about how no one would dream of calling it anything but rape had the poor kid been female.
Sometimes I hate this world.
Hit submit too soon.
You can see the sympathy/support/help expire for males in way civilian deaths are reported and in the way sexual assaults in war torn areas are reported.
Its like once a male gets to adulthood he forfeits any and all sympathy/support/help and is regarded as either nonexistent or a combatant.
So, I should conclude from the Steubenville debacle that all men are sociopaths who will be totally coddled by the justice system?
There’s pleanty of injustice to go around, but stereotyping gets us nowhere.
So, I should conclude from the Steubenville debacle that all men are sociopaths who will be totally coddled by the justice system? No you shouldn’t but as I said about the way sexual assaults and civilian deaths in war torn areas are reported and talked about there is (I think) a pretty clear message being sent that the only adult men worth talking about are the soldiers and criminals. Its not about what you (generic) the reader gathers from those crimes but its in the way those crimes are presented and the ways they are discussed (well what you gather… Read more »
Media coverage is an issue, yes. So is your insistence that women don’t give a shit about men who are raped.
“Exactly. Stereotyping males as The Assailants (and females as The Victims) isn’t going to work.”
Funny, I haven’t seen anyone here do that. You just assume I do because you stereotype women, or at least feminists. So don’t say ‘yeah, stereotyping is bad’ unless you actually plan to stop doing it.
Media coverage is an issue, yes. So is your insistence that women don’t give a shit about men who are raped. I’m saying people in general don’t give much of a shit about males that are raped by females and that media coverage reflects this (again, notice how this case is getting attention and getting people to recognize that females can rape males). Mind you that’s not the only source. Funny, I haven’t seen anyone here do that. You just assume I do because you stereotype women, or at least feminists. So don’t say ‘yeah, stereotyping is bad’ unless you… Read more »
Apologies, I honestly thought you were referring to this conversation.
Its cool. And sorry about that last line.
Well said, Megan. We all carry a sense of social justice and real outrage. But generalizing is the kiss of death for making change.
Thank you.
I believe here in NZ the crime “Rape” involves a man penetrating. However we have a crime called “Sexual Assault” which covers forced penetration and has exactly the same penalties and aggravating/mitigating circumstances. So pragmatically speaking no change is needed – agree that forced penetration/envelopment should just be called rape though.
Sorry, it is “Sexual Violation” as the article says – same penalties so it isn’t a priority to me. We can rightfully call her a rapist and the law can punish her as fits. I’m more worried about whether she is given custody of the child. She is going to be in prison for a long time and has kinda proven her unfitness around children. The right thing to do would be to give the child to the boy’s family. Horrible situation.
That boy should also be 100% free from child support payments too since he was only a child himself and couldn’t consent.
@ RMNZ
“However we have a crime called “Sexual Assault” which covers forced penetration and has exactly the same penalties and aggravating/mitigating circumstances”
Does that mean they face the same penalties or does that mean they could face the same penalties in theory? Just because two crimes could face the same penalties doesn’t mean that they do.
-John Anderson Yeah that is a good point – I think female pedophiles are often seen as less bad (invalid), less likely to re-offend (possibly valid) etc so judges are more lenient. Legally it is identical, but judges have discretion and aren’t truly amoral/without prejudice so who knows. The examples of similar previous cases since the 2003 law change had sentences that satisfy me is all I can say. – Archy I agree that he shouldn’t have to pay support (if he doesn’t want to when he is older) and believe that legally he is protected and doesn’t have any… Read more »
I hope this does lead to changes in sexual assault laws, but I am a little disgusted at how both the headline and the description in the article make the act sound consensual. She “took part in a sexual encounter” and “bore his child,” not “she got a child drunk and took sexual advantage of him.”
From the article in the new Zealand herald; he will not have a right to access to the child as he was not present at the birth. He would have to make a court application if he wants access. It also says that there are provisions to prevent victims of sexual abuse from being responsible for child support. It does not say that these have been applied to him. Hopefully he will not end up being expected to pay child support for a child he cannot see – at 12 years old!
I hope you are right about the provisions about child support. But according to Wikipedia it seems like there are few exemptions for the liable parent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Support_%28New_Zealand%29#Liable_Parents_exempt_from_Child_Support
Which does sound like the victim will be liable for paying child support when he turns 16, but I hope I am wrong.
I don’t think anyone would admit to condoning the behavior that’s why many things said on the internet is said when someone can do so anonymously. Word choices especially word choices throughout the article that consistently downplay and minimize what happened to the boy could indicate in the author’s view that the crime was at least less severe then had the genders been reversed or in the worst case scenario that the law is misplaced. For example throughout the article the rapes are referred to as contact. The boy was “very aware” as if he had some agency in the… Read more »
“I will seek advice from officials on whether or not a law change is required.””
That doesn’t sound very promising. Sounds a lot like normal feminist concern for men and boys. We’ll see if it’s REQUIRED (to stem PR backlash).
“During the course of the day, the woman gave the boy beer to drink and then later took part in a sexual encounter with him.”
LATER TOOK PART, sounds like this was a happy occasion and that they were both equal doesn’t it, contrast that to how this would have been reported if the genders were reversed.
“During the course of the day , the man plied the young girl with beer , got her drunk and then raped and molested her”
I don’t think anyone is condoning the behavior, but I can see how the headlines might change if the genders were swapped. We should be happy that men will also be protected from forced sexual encounters.
DoesArchy, Not according to this latest law. Let me ask, do NZ and western countries need a more laws or just good parents to teach it’s people about right and wrong?
Where do kids truly learn about right and wrong and personal responsibility? At home of course.
Actually, the answer to your question is “Both, duh.”
yes i agree with you, and for the same reason i recall raising my eyebrows while reading a couple of other articles about similar cases. on a related point, theres an article in the atlantic about don draper being raped as a child, which references gmp. so the discussions in our incubator here, including the well discussed NIPSVS stats, are percolating outwards into wider society I didn’t expect the Mad Men episode to generate as much interest–after all, the scene, despite more clearly depicting a lack of consent, is far less explicit than the one in Girls. But I did… Read more »
In the US, lawmakers recently passed Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2013 and Military Improvement Act of 2013. Women are virtually unaccusable and protected from any form of sexual violence. People should be angry about these changes to public law and military law, but it appears there is silence.
Isn’t VAWA gender neutral now??
That depends. In theory women can be criminally prosecuted under VAWA , but straight men are legally barred from receiving STOP assistance so the question becomes is a law gender neutral if monies expended to ensure it’s enforcement are legally barred from use of a gender or the majority of a gender? Is a law a law if it’s not going to be enforced?
Am I reading that wrong or did you say people should be angry that women are protected from any form of sexual violence? VAWA is not about making women unaccusable. Women are accused and convicted of CSC in the U.S. But I admit it is not taken as seriously as when a man is the aggressor. I agree that should change.
Also, I believe the military includes protecting all soldiers, not just the women.
Jenna, no one is condoning violence and I am not making a political statement. But legislators rushed these through from the media frenzy and took parts of the chain of command away in this particular military law. Something’s fishy about these laws, thus they need scrutiny, before more men are thrown in jail because a woman changes her mind after jumping in the sack and calls it rape.
We don’t need this type of law hanging over men’s heads when 99.99999% of men are decent.
The committee opted to keep litigation within the chain of command. And I agree that most men are decent. I am raising 4 boys myself, and couldn’t agree more that women need to be punished equally for sex crimes.
I think he might mean no one can accuse the women, and they can commit sexual violence without prosecution.
I’m pretty sure he meant to say we’re protected from accusations of sexual violence.
I honestly don’t know the legal system well enough to rebut or agree, myself. If he’s right that female perpetrators are immune here, then that definitely needs to change. I do know we can be charged with statutory rape.