Posting this lecture does not mean I agree with it.
Only that I think it significant enough to ask for your reactions.
Jackson Katz gives a Clinton School lecture titled, “More Than a Few Good Men: A Lecture on American Manhood and Violence against Women.” Katz is the co-founder of the Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP) program, a leading gender violence prevention initiative in professional and college athletics. He is also director of the first worldwide sexual and domestic violence prevention program in the U.S. Marine Corp.
I found the Video of interest – and was willing to go with the flow of how you deliver a lecture – the need to provide information in a general manner – with some lee way – I could see the rational and need to present things a certain way, avoid exact stats and even ask the audience “Rhetorical Questions” as a way of bringing them in …… even asking them if they knew certain information as a shock tactic…. he did seem to not be upto date of the CDC figures – but the again, which professional social commentators… Read more »
Men capable of violence inspire lust in the female hind-brain. In many cases, the female values the lust more than the pain of a bruise or two. Ever see a violent “abuser” who did not have a girlfriend?
Trying to come between a woman and her abuser, if you are not a cop, is likely to result in you lying in a large pool of your own blood. And the woman will instinctively feel greater loyalty towards her Man than towards you. At that point, you should rethink a lot of things – if you live long enough.
The comments are almost always better than the articles!
typhon
Couple of years ago, on Father’s’ Day, a female Presbyterian pastor used the sermon to really hammer men as abusers and oppressors. The sermon was on line for about a month. Can’t get it any longer, surprise. I’d be interested to know how that particular church is faring.
No surprise there. Hating on father’s has become a bit of a pasti time for some. When mother’s day rolls around it’s all sweetness and light and “think what your mother had to do for you” Father’s day comes and it’s nothing but how men need to step up to do more, how much father’s suck, or are they even neccesary?
Funny thing is Obama did the same thing two years in a row back when he was running for the White House. He specifically chose Father’s Day to go to a church and give a big speech about how men need to “step up” and be fathers. Funny thing is he didn’t mention the men that are stepping in even in the face of mothers and parts of the legal system that keep trying to push them down… And of course there was the school a few years ago (in Scotland I think) that banned kids from making Father’s Day… Read more »
– The only way men can stop another man from commiting sexual/physical violence on a woman is if they help to make sure that the man’s interactions with woman are limited. If you stop it in public it’ll continue behind closed doors, if you remove him from the woman’s life she may make contact with him again, and if he can build a relationship with another woman it’ll start again. – We could possibly be close to those men who commit these acts ? so ? We don’t know what happens behind close doors nor do we know what goes… Read more »
While men continue to be obliged to protect and defend women we will continue to be stuck in the fifties.
It was over-protectiveness by men that made feminism necessary in the first place. The womens’ libbers understood. They advocated for women from a position of strength. Feminists who came after never did understand. They took the easy way. Women are weak and must be protected. Bugger the men. If necessary they must die so that every woman can be safe.
Reminds me of many of the talks in church about original sin that I used to sit through.
Did you ever get the sense that original sin mostly applied to men in the church?
I did.
So how much is this guy getting paid,and by whom?
Parroting the party line looks to be profitable.
How many “foundations” are contributing how many dollars to ultimately
Justify and direct funds to the SGI?
(That includes Federal payoffs to judges)
Wow the feeling of power to incarcerate men at a whim.
Talk is cheap. Especially when it’s directed at people who think it’s nuts. I mean the perps. Even if you dress it up with terms like “mentor”. I note there are two possibilities for identifiying with the perp, and none being horrified. You can talk until your lips fall off and it won’t do any, even the slightest good. As with Hugo’s classes against rape…the non-rapists show up and get the message and the potential rapists show up to prospect. Not likely the latter get The Message. Or, of course, the potential rapists might not show up. They hang out… Read more »
I prefer to reduce violence against everybody and not use men as a scapegoat to blame.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, but then I’m not a part of the silent majority. It would be nice to hear from them.
You agree with lumping male survivors of female abuse with potential offenders, perpetrators?
We’re a silent minority, by the way. Not a majority. But now we’re getting louder.
From his website “View men not only as perpetrators or possible offenders, but as empowered bystanders who can confront abusive peers.” This is great: a constructive attitude that encourages men to move beyond identification with the perpetrator (either with guilt or defensive anger), and to reclaim a real sense of responsible masculinity. More of this please. PS: I know you’re in a difficult position, Tom – what with an increasing amount of your readership being people who get angry at these sort of points of view – but I’d be interested in why you didn’t want to endorse what Mr… Read more »
Chris I didn’t have time to watch the whole hour so didn’t want to endorse something that I hadn’t seen, but did think from what I saw that it was worth putting up to get folks to respond to.
Fair enough, Tom – thanks for the reply. And for the link – I hadn’t heard of this guy.
Chris: “PS: I know you’re in a difficult position, Tom – what with an increasing amount of your readership being people who get angry at these sort of points of view – but I’d be interested in why you didn’t want to endorse what Mr Katz says.” There’s a reason for that anger, Chris. Because many of the people are men who have been victims or survivors of violence/abuse from women (mothers, ex-girlfriends, ex-spouses) yet there are rarely any support networks for them to turn too. They were either told “It’s nothing compared to women” or assumed to still be… Read more »
Eagle – I don’t wish to minimise or belittle your experiences in any way. I’m really not trying to get into a fight here, but it seems a lot of commenters on the GMP turn up looking for one. I found his statement “productive” (or helpful, whatever) because a lot of the anger that I hear against feminists seems to stem from a perception that they lump all men into the “perpetrator” category – you know, the “all men are potential rapists” thing. Here’s a man rejecting that, but not pretending the actions of our gender are nothing to do… Read more »
While the diminishing of validity of what people like Eagle experienced may not be quite as overt as expected it plays itself out in the form of when talking about men in the realm of violence we are still limited to “perpetrator” and “protector”.
Chris: “Eagle – I don’t wish to minimise or belittle your experiences in any way. I’m really not trying to get into a fight here, but it seems a lot of commenters on the GMP turn up looking for one.” Well, I’m not looking for a fight. I’m here to speak out. If speaking out is “Looking for a fight” to you, then that’s your problem not mine. Chris: “I found his statement “productive” (or helpful, whatever) because a lot of the anger that I hear against feminists seems to stem from a perception that they lump all men into… Read more »
” fighting back against a toxic definition of masculinity”
There is no ‘toxic definition of masculinity’ there are only men who have been treated in toxic ways.
Thanks TB, I marvel at your ability to cut through bullshit.
The idea that there’s some sort of “toxic” maculinity is just more gender policing, it’s still putting men in an “acceptable” box, it just changes what the box looks like.
You can see it whenever feminists and progressives talk about “frat boys” and “dudebros”
Oh, I forgot.
As Danny has pointed out, what’s so “Helpful” about lumping all men into the ‘Perpetrator” or “Protector” label?
Same reaction here, Eagle. His statement that men shouldn’t be viewed solely as perpetrators is an encouraging FIRST step. But it’s far from the only step that needs to be taken.
Viewing men as a mix–some perpetrators, some bystanders, some activists, and some as victims themselves–would be the biggest advance toward an evenhanded and rational view of violence in our society. Just as it would be for women.
“View men not only as perpetrators or possible offenders, but as empowered bystanders who can confront abusive peers.”” “PS: I know you’re in a difficult position, Tom – what with an increasing amount of your readership being people who get angry at these sort of points of view – but I’d be interested in why you didn’t want to endorse what Mr Katz says.” “because a lot of the anger that I hear against feminists seems to stem from a perception that they lump all men into the “perpetrator” category – you know, the “all men are potential rapists” thing.”… Read more »