This is a comment by The_L on the post “Playing Hard to Get“.
“The way we speak both influences and is influenced by the way we look at the world. It’s a strong part of our culture.
“Mild example of this feedback loop: we call pink a ‘girly’ color, and companies market mostly-pink toys and clothes to little girls. This results in more girls liking pink. Because girls tend to like pink, its association with femininity is reinforced, and companies continue to market mostly-pink toys and clothes to little girls.
“Less pleasant (and possibly triggering) example of this feedback loop: Openly-gay people are ostracized in society. This leads bullies to call Josh, an unpopular kid, a ‘fag’ as an insult, whether Josh is actually gay or not. Continued homophobic bullying of this sort drives Josh into such a deep depression that he commits suicide. Because teens like Josh commit suicide due to being called ‘fags,’ he becomes part of the statistic that teens who are gay or perceived as gay have a high suicide rate. Certain unsavory types of political conservative use this high suicide rate as ‘proof’ that something is horribly wrong with gay people, which leads to openly-gay people being ostracized in society.”
Photo credit: Flickr / LauraLewis23
About the Editors
“…teens who are gay or perceived as gay have a high suicide rate.” – well this is true not only in perception but in reality, if your case is true, but of course the reason is not because they are gay but because they are being bullied.
I have not seen or heard yet of a politician who argues that the high suicide rate of gays is a proof that something is wrong with them. Certainly not the presidential. Still if this is true, I don’t think that politicians not doing that would have impact of lowering the ostracizing of homosexuals but I do see your point.
BTW, it’s not only that we call pink a girly color, it does feels like a girly color; that is it is soft, cute… feminine; just like blue feels like a cold color and red as a passionate color and black a sombre color. Just try juxtaposing colors and you will notice it say for example:
-a black wedding gown (such a pure bride)
-a pink army thank (pink power)
-a blue sunflower (it would not look sun-like anymore).
-a neon green hotdog (looks delicious)
-white poop (is the dog drinking bleach?)
Color is not only about what we think it does have a psychological effect on us. Blue and makes us feel calm thus it becoming a popular color for bedrooms. Red increases appetite making it a popular choice in restaurants. Black is broody and mysterious and even scary thus making it the de facto color for witch’s dress and Dart Vader costume.
Our reaction and perception of color is not only because of culture, there in a natural psychological part to it as well.
“I have not seen or heard yet of a politician who argues that the high suicide rate of gays is a proof that something is wrong with them.”
Then you’ve never paid attention to the state of Texas or to hate groups like the FRC, NOM, and Focus on the Family. The hate groups in question pose as Christian religious groups; they do not whitewash any of this. Any means of celebrating ANY form of diversity is viewed as “pushing the homosexual agenda.” Anti-bullying? “Pushing homosexuality on our children.” And yes, they use the higher suicide rate among gay teens and adults as “proof” that being gay is “disordered.” http://www.wakingupnow.com and http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/ are good places to look if you want links to such rhetoric as it is spoken by said hate groups themselves.
“BTW, it’s not only that we call pink a girly color, it does feels like a girly color; that is it is soft, cute… feminine”
This is entirely cultural. One hundred years ago, pink was considered a very masculine color. After all, red was considered manly as all hell, and pink is just another shade of red. It was a “healthy,” “vibrant,” “energetic” color (think about how your cheeks turn pink when you’re exercising in the sun). Girls weren’t supposed to be vibrant or energetic; thus, pink was a manly color and the preferred color for little boys. Girls wore blue.
“-a black wedding gown (such a pure bride)”
Wedding gowns were not invented until the 19th century. Before that time, a woman wore her nicest dress on her wedding day–and yes, a lot of those brides wore black, brown, or red while walking down the altar.
Also, I’m not sure I like the implications of “white = pure” regarding brides. A lot of women who get married in white gowns are not virgins at the time.
“-a pink army thank (pink power”
If tanks had been invented 50 years earlier, we might have this in real life. See above.
“-a blue sunflower (it would not look sun-like anymore).”
Technically, the reason we call it a sunflower isn’t because it looks like the sun, but rather because it turns to follow the sun. The big part in the middle of a sunflower is brown–if they were named based on their color, we could very well have called them brownflowers or dirtflowers.
“-a neon green hotdog (looks delicious)
-white poop (is the dog drinking bleach?)”
These are not cultural. However, I defy you to find a single child who doesn’t love green ketchup or neon-colored candies. By the way, if a dog eats plastic, rubber, or other things it shouldn’t eat and can’t digest (Bad dog!!) then its poop will take the color of the undigested Non-Dog-Food Stuff it ate. I know from my own poop-scooping experience as a dog owner.
“there in a natural psychological part to it as well.”
Really? You mean like how white is the color of death everywhere, not just in eastern Asia?
I know all you are stating but the point I made is still there, even scientist know them. Yes color has cultural part but they have psychological basis as well. This culture/psychology stuff is like the egg and chicken argument. It is just that one influences the other.
And to you other statements:
>pink is a tint of red but it is not red. just think, you probably would not accept a pink paint when you have asked for red. You might accept engine red of scarlet but not pink. But I do agree that red is a manly color at those times but then pink is different from red. Also, pink is only used for infants so ink is associated for infant boys.
We do have associated pink more to females now than before. I don’t really see anything wrong about men wearing pink and other ‘girly’ colors and I’m quite astounded at many people ridiculing many for wearing it.
I do overstated myself when I say that pink is feminine and for that I am sorry. Though I still feel that pink is a soft and cute color and I love pink for that characteristic.
>Yes it might be invented in that time but white is used in wedding gowns as a symbol of purity. Brides are expected to be pure, virgins. Of course expectations is different from reality but still the expectation and tradition remains. A white gown is still a symbol of a pure bride whether the bride is really pure or not. Women still would not like black gowns would be very strange. Or take it on other celebrations. How about wearing yellows and reds in a funeral? An all white birthday party? The colors we choose for celebrations are not only determined by culture, its also about the psychological aspect too. We choose them too because of how they make us feel.
>well, at least you, sort of, say yes to the pink tank. But then, they would have been red tanks not pink.
>Hmm. Makes sense. Well, I assumed that its because of appearance. The sunflowers I have seen does not follow the sun but still called as such, though I read about them following the sun. Still, they would loose their sunny appearance when they are in cool colors.
>ketchup and candies are different from meat, that is why I choose hot dog. Green might look like fun on such stuff but people would loose much of their appetites when they see green meat. Did you know that without the red food coloring, hot dog is gray?
>as with dog poop, when you see it in color white is troubling because that is not the right color for poop. The same when you see it in red, or blue, or green. You would think something is bad with your dog if their poop are in those colors and culture does not dictate this is so.
Color has cultural manifestations yes but it has psychological aspect as well. Color has been used to effect moods and emotions and behavior. It affects our perceptions, like how we see size and distance. Though the psychological effect of color is not greatly understood (just like all other aspect of human psychology) it do have the effect. You can’t ignore it.
Eastern Asia and white, maybe because they see death differently? I myself believe that white is a good color for death. People turn white when they died. White is also peaceful which for me death has in an aspect. They just reflect on a different aspect of death than most of us do.
Hmm. It also seems that you are talking about homosexuals and how pink is related to it. I never got that from your comment, maybe because I have not read it in context. I do agree that in this case their reaction is cultural an association that man wearing pink=gay man and gay should be punished, ridiculed, etc.
Pink Fishing Rods?
I recently went shopping at one of the big box stores and decided to browse the fishing equipment aisle looking for sales. With my wife by my side I turned around and spotted a rather nice looking, well-made, pink fishing rod. My reaction was “isn’t that great”. This should make more girls amenable to fishing.
My wife’s reaction was a resounding Bullshit! And she walked out of the store obviously upset and angry. How could this be? I felt confident that this was a good thing and that it would promote fishing among the young girls. Her response to me was why would a little girl need a pink fishing rod to like fishing? Haven’t we forced enough differences on our girls? Isn’t this just a separate but equal problem? We don’t have light blue fishing rods for boys to increase their interest.
It took a while but I finally saw her point. As long as we put our children into these categories will they ever achieve equality? And doesn’t this apply to other categorization as well? Why do we insist on labeling our girls with pink frilly things? Doesn’t this lead to a world where they are treated as pink frilly things instead of equal members of society?
Enough!
Seriously?
If a girl wants to fish, she won’t care what color the rod is.
If a girl doesn’t want to fish, then the pinkest fishing supplies on earth won’t change her mind.