Maria Pawlowska argues that all, including men, are victims of patriarchy.
One of the most exciting things about social media is the interaction with readers that the comments section provides. It allows the reader to become a writer as well, and the writer to become a reader, furnishing a dialogue. And—there’s no two ways about it—not everybody is going to like what you write, and that that’s OK. It probably means you’re doing something right? You can’t please everyone (I mean, not even J.K. Rowling pulled that off). But I get anxious when I get the impression that I must have seriously miscommunicated something because, according to the comments, some readers appear to draw the exact opposite conclusions from what I intended.
Enter the topic for this post: it seems that patriarchy bashing is still interpreted by some to be man-bashing. Such a correlation is actually pretty scary, so I thought I’d go ahead and write a post on why the two are actually opposites.
If I were to sum it up in one sentence, why when I criticize patriarchy I’m not criticizing men, I would say that men themselves are victims of patriarchy and I’m not victim-blamer. Fortunately, there’s more space to elaborate on this.
First of all, let’s get our definitions straight. Patriarchy is a social system in which males assume the role of primary authority figures central to social organization. Moreover, in a patriarchal system men hold authority over women, children, and property. Male rule and privilege, as well as female subordination, are implicit.
Patriarchy is a system that men, as well as women, are part of. It’s a system perpetrated by both sexes. (If you hold any doubt, read Katie Riophe’s latest in The New York Times.) Criticizing the system is not equivalent to attacking all those who are a part of it. The problem with criticizing patriarchal values is that too many have come to believe they are “natural.” If someone thinks men really are somehow biologically predestined to be the heads of families and states, then questioning that may appear to be a direct attack on the essence of being a man.
And this whole “rule over women” deal may actually sound kind of neat if you lean to the far right and have a pinch of authoritarian tendencies, right? It’s not all nice and dandy, though—a patriarchal system brings with it a host of limitations to men as well as women. The latter are obviously the more constrained gender. They are supposed to listen to their husbands and fathers in everything and follow their lead. They aren’t allowed their own ambitions (save the “Best Housewife of the Year Award” and a first prize ribbon at the bake fair). They aren’t allowed free lives. Fifty years ago Betty Freidan told us the story of how damaging institutionalized patriarchal values really are to women. This really shouldn’t be news to anyone—women are not a monolith of creatures that want only to have babies and husbands. They should be granted the possibilities to strive for personal achievement just the way men are. But if patriarchy had its way this would never happen.
There’s more to it, though, and in The Feminine Mystique Freidan also touched on how men were hurt by the system. In a patriarchal system a man’s wife is his dependent in every sense of the word—she’s not his best friend, not a partner, not a companion that shares life’s ups and downs. She’s a helpless creature that needs to be sheltered, taken care of and who can’t really make conversation about anything other than diapers and PTA meetings. The full responsibility for anything that isn’t cooking, cleaning, or childcare related rests on the man of the house and there’s no one to share the responsibility with.
There’s also no one to talk to about the stress and worries. Patriarchy 101: Women are emotional, they worry, cry, and are generally “sissies.” Men are strong, brave, clear-headed, and, well, for lack of a better word, “manly.” Moreover, men aren’t really allowed to show too much interest in their children and definitely cannot display “excessive” affection. A pat on the back and handshake after a victorious Little League game will do. In a patriarchal system all men are literally the kings of their castles, and we all know that kings aren’t allowed to do anything that isn’t in the protocol (or they shouldn’t anyway).
In more general societal terms patriarchy strips the public life of females and everything they bring to the table. And I’m not talking about the empathetic, care-giving, etc. values, which are still mischaracterized as distinctly “feminine.” I’m talking about the real stuff—individuals and their skills.
I was at a meeting once with Bill Gates in which he was asked about his thoughts on international development. He had a simple answer (and I paraphrase): “The key is gender equality—you need all the smart people you can get and no one can afford leaving half of their population behind.” Last time I looked no one was calling Gates a men-hating feminazi. And whatever your opinion on Windows, I really think he nailed this one. Patriarchy isn’t just a deeply flawed system because it prevents women from achieving their best and stifles men in very strict gender roles. In fact, it holds back whole societies. Ultimately, it makes all of our lives more difficult and, yes, deserves a good bashing!
—Photo ellyjonez/Flickr
About Maria Pawlowska
Hermit- Why don’t you just get a vasectomy? If you really wanted to have control over whether or not you become a parent, it’s the most logical step to take.
i love my children, and they were planned. But again, we’re discussing ideas, why attack me personally?
I didn’t attack you personally. I asked a question. Why shouldn’t men take control over their own lives?
That’s a terrible thing to say. Would you say to a woman, “Why don’t you just get a tubaligation? If you really wanted to have control over whether or not you become a parent, it’s the most logical step to take.”
If not, it’s not only terrible, it’s sexist.
If he really wanted to have control over whether he became a father or not, he would take that control into his own hands and get a vasectomy. Women get their tubes tied all the time and yes, I have asked women if they are going to do that or stay on birth control and what kind are they using.. etc.
Getting tubes tied is a much more costly and invasive procedure than a man getting snipped.
You make it sound like it’s the end of the world. My grandpa had one because he didn’t want to have any more kids. Big deal.
Valerie,
You’re only looking at one instance for men (when they’re done having kids). What about young men who want to control whether they become parents for right now, but have children later.
Surgery shouldn’t be the only option. 30% of women surveyed in a woman’s mag said they would lie about contraception to have a baby even if the man had expressed he didn’t want to become a father.
That’s a lot of self-centered lying women, if the % remains valid for women at large.
Then men should get vasectomies if they think so many women are going to lie about it. Why put that choice in someone else’s hands when you have the power to control your own future. Vasectomies are fully reversible and affordable. Why not control your own life?
Velerie, to get a vasectomy does not change the laws suddenly unbiased, so that’s not the point. (In case you really want to know, i ‘ve always loved children, so the thought never came up) Biased laws are a human rights issue, like it or not. Oh yes, and it has nothing to do with me personally. More about my childrens future, what i feel responsible for.
Feminist groups are against DNA testing at birth…. i wonder why. So even vasectomy not always enough. There are horrible and disguisting cases out there.
Ok, fine, Hermit, have it your way. Don’t get a vasectomy and tell other men not to do it either. You can have control over your future but you choose not to. Nothing more I can say.
Where the hell do you get all these statistics?
Seriously. What “women’s magazine”?
In response to a question about where his wife might be while he is constantly on the internet, Eric says: “We’re usually together but doing different things. She shops way more than I do.”
Of course she does.
Since you have no answers and no valid points to make, you continue to stoop to personal attacks and insults. Now you’ve moved on to attacking my wife.
So, since his wife enjoys shopping, you’re implying she’s not a liberated female and just a slave to her husband. Believe it or not, some women like to shop. Some men do too. Who are you to say whats appropriate for that woman to do? A true feminist wouldn’t attack the lifestyle a woman chooses even if it doesn’t coincide with your personal likes and ideals.
I made my comment about the awesome power of patriarchy because I wanted to express, in an awkward way, how having an extreme view of patriarchy can actually backfire. If patriarchy has “destroyed” generation after generation, and men keep on getting away with all these horrible things century after century, it sounds pretty invulnerable to me. The worse it sounds, the more universal it looks, the less confidence I have in fighting it. If there’s never been any progress against it at all, then it’s hard to imagine any progress in the future.
I’m left with a hypothetical, another one of those gender paradoxes I keep running into. If you could choose between being a man in our society and being a woman, which would you choose?
For anti-patriarchal women: if you’re a woman looking at the horrible injustice of patriarchy, would you choose to be a man if you could?
Same thing for a man who thinks women have more privilege than men – would you rather be a woman than a man?
If the answer to any of this is that you would NEVER trade in for the other gender, that it’s way better to be the gender that you are, then I’m not sure how that answer squares with saying that the other gender is better off.
Same thing in general for people who claim that group X gets special treatment – would you rather be a member of that group if you had a choice? (If being black and gay and female are the most privileged positions, then I should wish I were an African American lesbian.) If not, then how privileged could they be?
I think you’re taking a pretty extreme interpretation here. I don’t think anyone is saying there hasn’t been progress – only that the journey isn’t completely over yet, despite some people’s wish to declare that it is.
I wouldn’t choose to be a man if I could (although there are plenty of documented cases of women who would, parents who want sons and not daughters, black people who try to look more white, etc.), but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing about being a woman that angers or saddens me and that I’d like to see changed. I’m sure that as a man you probably feel the same, even if you wouldn’t trade places with a woman.
The thing that disturbs me is that so many of these discussions seem to turn into a “who is the bigger victim” contest. It would be nice if someone could bring up a problem that exists for one gender without spawning all these other comments about how much worse it is for the other gender. We all know that we’ve all suffered behind gender roles and the societal norms that go with them. Different problems affect different genders and it would be nice if we could discuss each one without it turning into a contest of who is getting screwed over more.
“The thing that disturbs me is that so many of these discussions seem to turn into a “who is the bigger victim” contest.”
I admit that I have done that. Did it just a minute ago.
It has become a defense mechanism. It gets really old to hear constantly how horrible you are because of being male, how we are rapists, abusers, the devil incarnate – and how wonderful women and girls are in comparison. The concept is to become better men, not get beat down and insulted constantly.
I mean, if you happen to not be a rapist, oppressor, victimizer, and otherwise a really bad person, it’s insulting and irritating to constantly be told that you are, simply because of your gender.
The gridlock in this thread is like the gridlock of the Super Committee is like the gridlock in Congress. This is going nowhere, and I am stunned by the amount of time being put into it. The MRA’s and the feminists will no more come to consensus on this issue than the dems and the GOP can come to consensus on any issue. I wish that were not true, and admire the effort being put into this thread, but it is obvious after over 300 comments going on for days, we are at total impasse. I suggest everyone give up a fight going nowhere, and chill out. My inbox needs a break.
I know it’s not very constructive to speculate about anyone’s motivations, especially since it’s so hard to prove the motivation. So, I’ll just say what my impression is, right or wrong, and ask if anyone else was thinking the same thing:
The “Oh, no…” messages sound like a caricature of a type of feminist argument, like something invented to discredit the anti-patriarchy thread of feminism. If so, it’s brilliantly entertaining.
I don’t know if this makes me cynical to think that someone would be so sneaky, or if it makes me naïve because I can’t believe anyone would sincerely be that extreme.
I admit, I had the same thought.
Honestly, I’ve started wondering the same.
If that’s the case, I’ll admit it is a terribly dishonest tactic. On the other hand, it did elicit some very interesting comments.
It’s hard to know. On the other hand I have seen things work the other way around. On the thread about Feminism and Fathers, finding a common ground there was a feminist reader who talked to talk of equality (even getting comments from the author that she seemed like a good advocate), but as with most things hardcore feminists say, when you play “reverse the genders” she was revealed as not into equality at all, in fact quite the opposite.
I have also seen on many feminists threads in which feminists state they like to go onto mra (or just mainstream threads on gender issues) and pose as men.
Who the hell knows?
That is ridiculous – and you accuse me of being paranoid?
I am not a feminist. I am a person who happens to be a woman. I am a person who prefers solitude. I am a person who hates being harassed. I am a person who has been raped and stalked.
Most of the men attacking me on this forum seem to deny my experience. Why? You can’t handle the fact that in this day and age men still rape and stalk and harass?
I have not made up any of the facts I have related here, nor am I playing a game.
Not being paranoid, just speculating. I can understand your preferring solitude, hating being harassed, and being raped and stalked.
I just have a very hard time understanding how so many men could be harassing and stalking you to the extremes you describe. We’ve all, as women, had experiences of being stalked, harassed and feeling threatened by men – sometimes often enough for it to be scary or at least extremely annoying – but in most cases it’s still a pretty small subset of men. I’ve had many more experiences of feeling genuinely cared about by men. You make it sound like every man you come across thinks you’re a slut just because you’re single (I’m single too, and I don’t have this experience at all nor do I know anyone who does), like any single woman is constantly going to be stalked if she isn’t with a man, etc. Either you live in a VERY conservative, odd community or you have a very different experience than most women, and that tends to provoke some suspicion in online forums, where people can be anonymous and often aren’t who they say they are.
It’s certainly true that there are people who pose as “feminists,” “animal rights activists,” Democrats or Republicans, etc. on message boards just to present an extreme point of view and discredit the movement they say they’re part of. Your point of view is certainly extreme, so you shouldn’t be too surprised if people don’t trust it.
LF – I had no clue that so many men were involved in this stalking and harassment until I filed for a restraining order against the rapist, who I had thought was just a sociopath operating on his own nuttiness. When I got my TRO against the guy, he filed for a restraining order against me (which was refused), alleging that I had falsely accused all sorts of men of sexual misconduct, and that I was bragging to every man in sight that I was some sort of sexy beast with fantastic skills. He named several men, most of whom I had been avoiding for years – which apparently really pissed them off. I had not falsely accused them of anything. One guy claimed I had wrongly accused him of “sexual harassment,” when all I did was ask him not to call me. In his application for the restraining order, the rapist described me as this crazed slut – and that is so far from what I am. I lead a really quiet life, don’t go out much, don’t hang out in bars, don’t drink except for a glass of wine with dinner. Up until mid-1999 I felt genuinely cared about by my former boyfriend – a relationship that lasted more than seven happy years, until he hit his mid-life crisis and lost it, and I had to cut him loose. The weird thing is that I do not live in a conservative town – it is supposedly very liberal. I think I HAVE had a very different experience from most women. Most women I know are in relationships with men, and I know a few looking for a relationship. Nobody seems to bother them. One guy who seems friendly and who has overheard the gossip says the creeps can’t understand why I won’t have sex with any of them, and they don’t see anything wrong with forcing me. The rapist, who lives nearby, has been yelling at me and vandalizing my property for years. So I am very stressed. Knowing of the hostility of the other men who support the rapist doesn’t help, either. Nor does the involvement of the police, who like the rapist and have offered their help to him. At this point I do not know the identities of all of the men involved, so that makes me feel less than trusting. Most of my real friends live out of state, or outside the U.S.
With your explanation, I understand why people don’t trust my description of my experience, but it is very real. I am hoping that this is just a prolonged bad patch, but I am beginning to wonder.
Well I’m sorry you’ve had this experience if it’s real… but since you’re apparently aware that your experience has been unusual, it’s hardly very fair to get on a website such as this one and spew a lot of bile at “men” in general, is it? Some of us are trying to have conversations where we can reach genuine understanding, and projecting what is admittedly an outlying experience onto men as a whole isn’t going to get that done.
I can understand that you’re angry and stressed, and there are some men here who are equally bitter and obviously venting their frustrations against “women” (or “feminists” or whoever), but the folks who run this site have repeatedly said it isn’t supposed to be anybody’s personal battleground, and I appreciate that sentiment. I don’t think that does any good. If you can find a way to talk about your experiences without taking it out on an entire gender (and most of your comments really do come off that way), then people’s responses might not reinforce your fears so much.
It is real. And excuse me for being impatient with the majority of the men posting here, who clearly are here solely for the purpose of bashing women and reinforcing negative sexual stereotypes. I am not hostile towards all men. Most of my friends, in fact, are men. They simply are not part of the jerk sub-population of men.
Usually i’m very sceptic about the stories when someone accuses his/her community with a conspiracy against him/her. Something is fishy here.
I don’t say you’re lying, and believe you lived your experiences as you described. But… is that the reality? Are the majority of the people in your life (especially the men!) are evil? I’m sure they would tell another story. Or… is there any possibility that you are also doing something wrong?
i don’t know, just asking questions.
Anyway, i wish you better days and positive changes in your life.
Well, Hermit, I would not have believed it myself, and probably would never have known about the involvement of the other men, but for having obtained the restraining order. That unleashed the rapist’s filing and his revelation of the participation of the other men in a campaign to defame and attack me. I have the emails between the rapist and a certain police sergeant – the rapist attached them to his papers. I also have the police report the rapist filed in an attempt to phony up a claim that I was harassing him. He attached a long statement to the report naming the other men and what they were saying about me. I was shocked, since I had not so much as spoken to any of these men in the past 8 to 10 years, and I could not understand why they would be discussing me among themselves at all. I still don’t know all of the details, and nobody is volunteering anything.
As for the majority of people in my life – no, they are not all evil. I have a lot of musician friends who are kind and a lot of fun.
I am sure these men will tell their stories, but they are just that – fictional stories. It appears that most of these people are angry because I refused their advances, spoiled their fantasies. I was not involved with any of these people. These were very superficial acquaintances (you know, standing with the dogs in the dog park and chatting) that had at first been pleasant, but then became strange. As soon as they displayed strange behavior, I stopped speaking to them – as I said, years ago. Most of them are drunks and they have a lot of free time on their hands. What did I do wrong? I was friendly, and then I stopped being friendly when they started the sexual comeons or the stalking or otherwise became obnoxious. I never dated any of these guys.
Thank you, Hermit, for wishing me better days. I certainly could use them.
Oh, no –
I have been nothing but respectful to you. Whereas, you have repeatedly called me names, personally insulted me, and personally insulted my wife, lyingly claimed that I wrote things that I did not, and then argued based on those lies. When I challenged you to post the quotes of what you claimed I said, of course, you disappeared from those discussions.
I’m sorry that it disturbs you that my life is not a wreck, that I have never abused my wife or any other woman, man, or child, that I am happily married. I’m sorry that it troubles you that I get along as well with women as I do men, that I have a good and close relationship with lots of women in and outside my family, and have been happily married for years with two kids who still jump in our bed every morning.
You find that “happy family” concept disturbing and unbelievable. Sorry, I like it and make no apologies for working hard to help make it so. Your anti-male, “men are rapists” world view is very sad.
Worst of all, you have multiple times suggested that my wife should kill me, based on your personal anger and frustration. Don’t bother to talk about men who rape, as you advocate MURDER.
If discussion about gender is a contest to see who has the worst life, I will happily stand aside and let other people win. If winning the competition means being the biggest victim, I hope I come in last place.
This is why much of the critique about privilege fails to move me in the direction I guess I’m supposed to go. I suppose I’m supposed to feel guilty. Mostly I feel sympathetic and fortunate. The more I hear about all the apparent privileges I have, the more fortunate I feel. Thank goodness I wasn’t born ____ or ____ or ____. Their lives sound totally miserable. There but for the grace of God go I. Now I need to appreciate every day of my good fortune and enjoy every minute of it. Privilege is such a rare, precious, undeserved gift that I would hate to waste a single moment of it.
Unfortunately, I will miss out on all that character building. People keep telling me that adversity makes you stronger, but my privilege means I won’t be able to build that strength. My privilege will only make me complacent and lazy, and I’ll be totally unprepared when the revolution comes and sweeps people like me into the dustbin of history. (That’s the risk I freely accept.)
I will gladly concede that women put up with all kinds of crap that men don’t or won’t. I sometimes detect a sense of pride in women who point out how much worse women have it. Uh…congratulations? Sorry you tolerate things that men don’t? Better luck next time? Get Well Soon? I’m not sure what greeting card to buy for that message.
Establishing superior victimhood isn’t just about ego tripping (although that is certainly part of it). Its often performed to justify extreme measures to restore said victims to “equality” and to resist measures that might impinge on their privileges.
Personally I think its a massive red herring, but gender debates are always probably going to focus on it.
There’s another reason to bash patriarchy not men: men aren’t the only ones supporting patriarchal values. Women can also be complicit in patriarchy. In fact, they can be some of the most dedicated agents.
That is very true, wellokaythen. Some women are really brutal about going after other women – out of jealousy, competition, whatever.
No, Eric, you have not been respectful. You have been extremely condescending, dismissive, and snotty. I don’t know what statements you claim I falsely attributed to you, and I am not going to waste my time looking for them. I have work to do.
I doesn’t disturb me that you claim your life is “not a wreck.” (Naturally, you condescendingly imply here that my life is a wreck.) I don’t know what you have done. I only know what you claim to do. I am glad you are happy. I pointed out previously that I have encountered a number of men who crowed – much as you do – about how “happily married” they were, and then they were stunned when their wives up and left them. I don’t find your “happy marriage” disturbing – I just find you oblivious, patronizing, and obnoxious. That is why I stopped responding to your posts.
I am not anti-male. I am anti patriarch, or whatever you want to label men who make it their business to control women, put them down, and attack them physically, emotionally, financially or in any other way. I am against the men who have personally attacked me. I think it is sad that men — including you — feel compelled to attack me and then deny what they are doing, deny my experience.
I have never suggested your wife should kill you. If you had a uterus I would sling the patronizing term “hysterical” at you. I was being snarky because you were being snarky, not only towards me, but towards Michelle G, whose experiences no doubt are also very real and painful. You prefer to jeer and deny. You are not worth addressing, so I will not address you again.
“No, Eric, you have not been respectful. You have been extremely condescending, dismissive, and snotty.”
Snotty? That is the first time I have heard any called “snotty” since middle school. LOL!
“I don’t know what statements you claim I falsely attributed to you, and I am not going to waste my time looking for them.”
Actually, it was Michelle, when you and she were tag-teaming attacking me.
“Naturally, you condescendingly imply here that my life is a wreck.”
YOU are the one who continues to cite your long list of victimhood, how the District Attorney, the police, and their “female allies” all conspire to ensure that “men” continuously violently attack you with impunity.
No, you stopped because you had no rational, factual arguments.
“I am not anti-male.”
Then, you don’t mean what you say since you speak as if you are.
“I think it is sad that men — including you — feel compelled to attack me and then deny what they are doing, deny my experience.”
When have I “attacked you.” Here we go again:
Quote me calling you names (as you have done me).
Quote me suggesting that someone should murder you (as you have done me).
Quote me insulting you and your family (as you have done me).
Quote me talking about you in a disparaging way to others (as you have done me).
“I have never suggested your wife should kill you.”
In fact, you did. Twice.
“You are not worth addressing, so I will not address you again.”
Thank you.
I think there’s actually some real wisdom to be gleaned from the “oh, no…” messages. Here’s what I have generalized from her specific points about men:
1. Some people claim to be victims who really aren’t. Yes.
2. Just because some claims victimhood doesn’t mean the reader is obligated to believe and express a particular feeling. True.
3. Some people may exaggerate their victimhood in pursuit of individual goals. Yep.
4. Just because a person feels victimized doesn’t mean the person really is a victim. Agreed.
5. Some people may unjustly hold an entire gender responsible for their lives, to the point of disparaging all people in that gender. Clearly.
6. Some people justify venomous comments by pointing to their own pain and anger. Obviously.
7. It’s hard to feel sympathy for someone who is both a victim and an aggressor. So true, so true.
8. Some people treat victimhood as some sort of cut-throat, winner take all competition. Unfortunately true.
Sounds like solid wisdom to me, applicable to both male and female bloggers.
Not bad, not bad…. [devilish smile]
Oh no,
Interestingly, I perused a few threads of that ballbuster webpage you displayed as proof patriarchy still exists in full steam.
It wasn’t long before I found a post in which the author posted an article displaying this ecard:
http://ballbuster4ever.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/plzbeabettermanhater.png
The caption of the e-card reads: “you make me want to be a better man-hater”
The author’s comments under the linked card read:
“Of course I had to sift through a bunch of “not a man hater!” graphics to find this lovely pic. Because god knows, hating men is soooo wrooooong!”
If you think you can come from your hate-filled echo chamber where everybody just nods their heads at tired old themes that men are all oppressing de-evolved demons and women are all suffering highly evolved saints, then you better be prepared to defend yourself.
Because on this thread you won’t have the intellectual bullying of heavy-handed moderation and intense dogpiling and slurs and insults to rely on, and you better have some evidence to back up your assertions (like claiming there is no male disadvantage in criminal sentencing).
Because central to the concept of good men is treating men good. If society treats men like demons (aka as in your oh no approved blog) then don’t be surprised when they turn around and fulfill their alloted role.
Quite frankly I doubt your whole story. I don’t think there are hordes of leering men waiting outside your door every morning. More than likely if there is any truth to your assertions, you attract hostility with your own hostility.
Will you now go limping back to your webpage and say how poorly you were treated and show it as more evidence of how bad men are? I’m sure you will conveniently leave out how you maliciously attacked any male who simply opened a forum or asked you to back up your assertions with proof.
I can’t believe you think this webpage constitute proof of anything. I would compare this webpage to the klan, but I don’t want to be sued by the klan for defamation of character.
Here is a link to the actual article:
http://ballbuster4ever.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/on-hate/#more-973
Wow, reading those comments was like picking through the smoldering remains of some kind of horrific stalingrad in the gender wars. Thank god its only the internet.
@Maria Pawlowska
I’m very glad that you’re willing to recognise male, aswell as female, victimhood. Its a very importants step towards a true gender equality movement.
Despite this, I still take real umbrage with patriarchy theory:
Firstly, by insinuating that men are at the head and top of everything within traditional gender roles it denies female power and privilege. Its very important that female power and male powerlessness are understood in order to combat TGRs.
Secondly, if it is perpetrated equally by men and women, and you were willing to take the further step of agreeing that women can be powerful within TGRs, why call it patriarchy? It falsely implies the patriarchy is mostly a “male thing” from which women must be freed. In reality its a bigendered construction from which all humans must be freed.
Thirdly, it is fundamentally man blaming and man hating. I’m sure you don’t hold those views yourself, but the very act of identifying nebulous “patriarchs” as the cause of all our woes puts the blame firmly in men’s court, while exhonorating women. Part of the problem is the word itself, unless you believe that the issue is with the pater, and never the mater, you shouldn’t use it.
O it worked so well in the black ghetto and Soviet Union…Let’s do it again and again and again!!!!
Seemed like an interesting topic so I linked to it from Google. But feminist/politically inclined posters decided to destroy it, which unfortunately is par for the course when attempts at rationally discussing issues relating to men are made.
I doubt I will return to this site again
The logic behind this patriarchy bullshit is all over the place and just plain stupid.
Lets talk about some things here. It is an absolute myth that men are more violent and abusive than women. One of my best friends was rapped and sodomized so badly as a child he had to have surgery to be able to walk and years of therapy to learn that having his mother shove things up his ass and pimp him out to sickos was not parental affection. Yes it was his mother that did that. I personally was also rapped by a woman as a child ,not my mother, but a trusted family member. I was not sodomized but an adult woman having sex with an 8 year old boy is still damaging believe me.
And yet I grow up and become a tall strong man. I Got married to a woman who is a doctor and has a black belt in karate. I supported her demanding career and sacrificed my own. We got divorced and she lies and accuses me of horrible things. Says look at him he is big I am small he is a man I am only a woman. Now I almost never see my children. She lies at the drop of the hat and I don’t see them. Though I did nothing wrong except yell back at her after finding out she was fucking the neighbor.
But because of the myth that men are dangerous and violent I barely have a relation ship with the daughters I was raising for more than 10 years.
I had the progressive marriage. I was the house husband. She had every thing the feminist movement says they want. I totally bought into that mentality for years and tried to be the best house husband I could be to her.
Problem, despite what she claimed, is over time she as a woman could not respect me as man because she had power over me. This is where Feminists ridiculous claims about patriarchy are flawed. Husbands do respect their wives and all they do. husbands don’t look down on a woman for taking the role of a home maker. Where as despite what any woman says they have a difficult time respecting a man that takes on the domestic role and it has nothing to do with Patriarchy and every thing to do with biology that they feel this way.
Feminism makes outrageous claims about what men and women are and contradicts itself by doing so.
Feminism says men are violent and abusive but denies that women are also violent and abusive. Feminism denies the humanity of men and hates all that is masculine and attaches things to masculinity that is not masculine but is in fact human. Violence is perpetrated by both genders. Though men are stronger and cause more damage when they are violent it does not lessen the fact that women hit just as much if not more than men. The difference though when a man is violent it is usually reactionary. Where as women that murder their husbands plan it out a head of time. Neither situation is right. Women are just as violent and capable of abuse and rape and murder as any asshole out there. It has nothing to do with gender or patriarchy or anything.
The worst thing feminism has done is give women a free pass when they are guilty. Every time you hear about a woman cutting her husbands penis off you soon hear how it was probably his fault he must have been abusive…. My god could you imagine the uproar if media said the same thing if the roles were reversed!
The simple fact that if I ever defended myself from my ex wife when she was being violent toward me I would have been the one arrested. That is the policy. Man did she do her best during our divorce to try to provoke me to violence. I never saw such evil in a person. A person that got all the support imaginable because of feminist institutions set up in the family court system. Because I am big and male it is assumed I am violent when nothing could be further from the truth.
There is no conspiracy by men to oppress women. The good things that feminism has accomplished are good things but it has wrought so much evil as well.