It’s the question we’ve all been asking, and Shannon Ridgway is here to clear a few things up.
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Can women objectify men?
That’s a question that gets asked a lot in feminist circles. And the answer isn’t always easy.
Viewing it simply, one would think that the answer is yes.
Because if we define sexual objectification as seeing people as no more than the sum of their parts and what those parts can do for us sexually, then yes, of course women can objectify men.
After all, there are women out there who “use” men for sex with little regard to their feelings, personalities, or desires, just as men do to women.
And this recent ad from Kraft is just one example of a new trend in advertising known as “hunkvertising.”
Obviously these men — the ones being used for sex and the ones laid out in all their naked glory for the viewing pleasure of us ladies — are being objectified, right?
Unfortunately, it’s not as simple as that.
The Difference Between Sexual Objectification and Sexual Desire
Sexual objectification and sexual desire are two different things.
Sexual desire and attraction is a normal and natural part of life. It involves two (or more) people stating their desire for one another and consenting to mutually agreed-upon sexual activity.
So in the case of someone “using” the other for consensual sex, it’s not true objectification because both parties have agreed (hopefully!) to engage in the act.
Sexual objectification, however, puts one person in the role of subject and the other person in the role of object. In heterosexual coupled relationships, these roles are usually assigned to the man and woman, respectively.
Sexual objectification requires that one person choose what they want sexually and the other person is required to perform to their standards.
And this kind of thinking permeates our culture so deeply that sometimes we don’t even recognize it.
To understand how objectification works, we have to start at the societal level.
Sexual Objectification as the Status Quo
The status quo of sexual objectification places the man as the subject and the woman as the object.
This idea has been so ingrained in society that it’s become part of our everyday culture. Sexual objectification is everywhere.
We see it in the form of everyday advertising — companies use scantily clad female models to sell their products (and we see this in both men’s and women’s magazines).
We see it on TV: Female characters (even powerful ones, like hospital administrator Dr. Lisa Cuddy on the show House, M.D.) wear low-cut shirts and tight clothing, while their male colleagues dress in normal business attire or loose clothing.
It even shows up in our everyday actions, like when we tell girls in schools to dress a certain way to avoid “distracting” their male peers.
So even though male objectification occasionally occurs (usually in the form of advertising), we can’t forget the context within which this operates.
Often, male objectification is done in the form of tongue-in-cheek references to ads that have objectified women for centuries.
And even if it’s a man being objectified in an ad, he is usually shown in full form with complete awareness of his presence, unlike women who are often shown with heads missing or from the back, effectively dehumanizing them.
Objectified men in ads seem to be saying, “Come hither; look what I can give you,” while objectified women seem to be saying, “This is yours for the taking.”
Reverse Sexism?
Even if a man is objectified on occasion, it is not the same thing as living within its oppressive structure day in and day out.
It’s akin to white people saying that reverse racism exists: It just doesn’t — because white people have never experienced systematic, centuries-long oppression like people of color have.
And men haven’t experienced systematic, centuries-long objectification like women have.
Is it possible for men to feel affronted or even demeaned when women comment on their chiseled chest, six-pack abs, or large penis? Of course. Just like it’s possible for a white man to feel offended when a black woman calls him a cracker.
But those instances are not nearly as common, nor do they contribute to a larger system of oppression like sexism or racism. If we refer to those insults as oppressive, then we’re reducing system-wide, institutionalized objectification and racism to petty, interpersonal slights.
Or, as Jamie Utt says in his amazing article “’That’s Racist Against White People!’ A Discussion on Power and Privilege”:
“We need to recognize that not all hurtful words or deeds are equal when certain ones are backed by a history and current system of domination, violence, oppression, repression, dehumanization, and degradation.”
Sexual Objectification and Its Role Within Misogyny
Not only is sexual objectification part of the status quo, it also plays a role in the underlying current of misogyny that courses through our society.
Misogyny is defined in many dictionaries as the “hatred of women,” but it’s much more complex than that. It’s dehumanizing.
Misogyny denies that women have thoughts, feelings, and rights. It robs them of everything that makes us human.
And when we reduce women to the sum of her parts — that’s misogyny. We are effectively saying that her thoughts, feelings, and opinions don’t matter. All that matters is her body.
When we use her for sexual purposes only and cast her aside, we are dismissing her worth as a person.
This simply does not happen to men — at least, not at the same level. Because there’s no system of oppression in place for men like there is for women.
Again, that’s not to say that women can’t use men to satisfy their sexual needs only.
But it falls more under the realm of awkwardness and less under the umbrella of objectification and oppression.
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So is it possible for women to objectify men?
Possibly — at the micro, interpersonal level.
But since sexual objectification is so intertwined within our culture and within misogyny, it would be a falsehood to say that it occurs against men at the same level that it does against women.
In the end, all arguing, “Hey, women objectify men, too!” does is distract from the real problem — deeply ingrained, misogynistic, sexual oppression against women.
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About Shannon Ridgway
Shannon Ridgway is a Contributing Writer to Everyday Feminism from the great flyover state of South Dakota (the one with the monument of presidential heads). In her free time, Shannon enjoys reading, writing, jamming out to ’80s music and Zumba, and she will go to great lengths to find the perfect enchilada. Follow her on Twitter @sridgway1980. Read her articles here.
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This article originally appeared on Everyday Feminism.
Photo credit: David Levitz/flickr
this article disgust me. GMP please dont post anymore of this nonsence. I mean seriously, because this is pretty much useless for men and harmfull. What you people thinking? do you just post articles for the sake of posting? or is that time to change the editor here with somebody more competent?
Because frankly this article stinks of misandry and imbecillity. Beside feminists have no business in defining mens experience. So this is pure feces.
Thanks for wasting my time.
I agree with you
Thanks for womansplaining all of that Shannon and pointing out once again how men have it so easy in life. The fact is, men are vilified for sexual desire and feminists now blur the line between desire and objectification. If we want to have sex with you, we’re creepy. If we don’t want to have sex with you, we’re shallow.
Men are objectified in other ways though, as “success objects”.
I agree with Shannon, the author 100%. I know that I have been objectified, and other men have too, but is it in our faces 24/7? Is my sex used as a mainstream advertising icon? Make objectification pales in comparison to female objectification, it is a fact. I would be interested in learning about how to remove objectification from sexual relations. I try not to ever objectify my girlfriend (I imagine that I still fail much of the time) and wonder if you can have sex without objectification. I find it interesting that most mature women do not objectify their… Read more »
Not your body perhaps, but the media will shame you for not having enough money, the right car, a big house. If you’re not earning enough to provide, then you’re worthless as a man. THAT is how we are objectified.
Because if we define sexual objectification as seeing people as no more than the sum of their parts and what those parts can do for us sexually, then yes, of course women can objectify men.
Deluding ourselves that objectifictaion i only sexual or about sex, will do nothing but only prolong it, as it is just trying to sweep the major part of the roblem under the rug.
“What bigotry? What issues do I have around sex? Have you and I had sex at some point? Are you that Josh? (Ever lived in NJ?) Does my dislike for the objectification of women in male entertainment automatically mean I got issues with sex? Because women should love their own objectification? Because it should make us feel good that men have very little regard for women when it comes to male entertainment? Do you not realize what men’s fantasies are saying about how men want to relate to women that is very disturbing to witness as a woman?” – You… Read more »
@ Josh
I understand your frustration, but you need to chill. If you have a problem with an idea, you can explain your issues with it. It’s much better than trying to silence the idea or person all together.
Can women objectify men? Yes. Unfortunately, it’s not as simple as that. Yes it really is that simple. Most of what is said after this is using feminism to alter the definition of objectification in such a way that it can only happen one way. Now if it were being used to be break down the differences in how men objectify women and women objectify men I don’t think there would be nowhere near as much push back at feminists. However feminists go that extra mile and use those examination tools to not just say “women objectifying men is different… Read more »
You know, what I found the most disingenuous about this article is the idea that societal problems can only be addressed one at a time. Women face greater biases, inequalities, and objectification than men; therefore, any grievances of men in those areas, perceived or real, cannot be addressed until the larger issues are solved. I believe that in embracing this assumption, we all sell ourselves short. Is it impossible to address the issues that women face while also trying to keep the pendulum from swinging too far in the opposite direction? Is it impossible to support women in STEM professions… Read more »
@ David “Is it impossible to support women in STEM professions while also supporting men who work in nursing, child care, or as stay-at-home dads? Is it too much effort to shatter the glass ceiling for women in management while ridding custody battles of biases against fathers? So who has it worse or is that just another assumption? I think it depends greatly on the metrics you use. Feminists use metrics that have traditionally favored men, money and position. Naturally, they’ll conclude that men had it better and women were oppressed. Let me ask a question though. Let’s say there… Read more »
Men are not objectified as women are. Our “purpose” is to provide for others and/or die if necessary. At best we are appliances, ATMs or sperm donors. At worst we are cannon fodder. We have always been disposable, and have been programmed all our lives to believe this is normal.
Dieter … The only thing that you said that I take issue with is this “I’m feminist.. in the sense that I wish to fight for first-class citizenship for women and all that comes with it. ” One doesn’t have to be a feminist or be even remotely affiliated with feminism to believe what you do. I’m not, never have been and never will be a feminist and I believe in what you stated here. Feminism doesn’t own these views but society has been brain washed into believing that a person can’t believe in these views unless they’re feminists. Do… Read more »
That’s an interesting point. For me, I define feminism as the fight for equal rights for women, and distinguish that from the feminist movement or feminist wave which is a collection of people with their thoughts and theories. So I see no conflict in identifying as a feminist, yet disagreeing with other feminists or even some of their mainstream theories. I’m also pro men rights, yet struggling to agree with men right movements 🙂 It’s no different than political parties in my country, where I may strongly disagree with the party even though I may strongly believe in the ideals… Read more »
Good point about the political label. I’m registered Republican but I don’t vote party lines. I have a bumper sticker that’s gotten a lot of good responses and it says “I’m not Republican and I’m not Democrat, I’m an American and I want my country back. I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and had a family in the 70’s. I agreed with much of what feminists were fighting for but from day one, I questioned what was going to happen with men, would there be anything that would provide men assistance with dealing with the expected changes? Over… Read more »
Dieter, you nailed it! One can identify as feminist and still take issues with some issues within feminism. Also, feminists (myself and the ones I know) agree that the court system that favors women for child custody, alimony, etc. is flawed and needs to change. In fact, feminists fight for most of the issues that MRAs are concerned with–abuse of men and boys, the unrealistic demands of masculinity or machismo culture, men expecting to be providers, bias against SAHDs, etc. These all fall under the realm of patriarchy, which is a system that hurts everyone, not just women. And I… Read more »
Shannon, the point missed is that limiting objectification to incidents of a visual sexual nature, and then using that limitation to claim a disproportionate impact is the point – not that since women’s boobs are objectified more than men’s boobs, then this equates to women are objectified more than men. Rhetoric that limits what is meant by objectification and then uses that limitation to claim greater objectification is too transparent to miss. If we take a more proper view of objectification, and include the historical massive contributions of soulless work to provide, wars to die, sex to fear – what… Read more »
Shannon, are you claiming that there is such derailing going on under this article?
Because I’ve lost count of the times that people have made accusations of derailing/whatabouttehmenzing when men/people responding on behalf of men respond to articles where men are brought up as part of the topic of the article – like this one.
You can’t just bring men up in an article, insist on what their experience is like or what their purported role in a problem is – and then complain that it’s “derailing” when people (including men!) try and correct it or add some balance.
“Even if a man is objectified on occasion, it is not the same thing as living within its oppressive structure day in and day out.” To me this indicates that the writer limits her definition of “living within an oppressive structure day in and day out”, however clear it seems to be worded. When a man’s life can be destroyed by a court and judgement that is based on his gender rather than fact, then how is that not condemning the rest of his life (day in and day out) by an oppressive structure? Would someone dare to claim courts… Read more »
This article can be summarized as follows: “Women sometimes objectify men. However, men objectify women more, so please don’t use ‘women objectify men as well!’ as an argument when discussing sexual oppression against women”. I think the article makes a very good point, but should have been written in a different way. Try writing an article without pointing the finger towards men (“You! Men! Stop objectifying us women, the harmless victims in this world!”) and I’m sure everyone will agree. When you throw gasoline on a camp fire, chances are it will burn down the forest. Try throwing some water… Read more »
So in the case of someone “using” the other for consensual sex, it’s not true objectification because both parties have agreed (hopefully!) to engage in the act. But, women who work in pornography agreed to engage in sexual acts while being filmed with the knowledge that their sexual acts would be available to any person who paid to view them. Women who work at lewd establishments agreed to work there knowing that male patrons will leer at them. Yet, we are told that those practices and venues all constitute the objectification of women, even when the women agree to work… Read more »
@ Megalodon “Obviously these men — the ones being used for sex and the ones laid out in all their naked glory for the viewing pleasure of us ladies — are being objectified, right? Unfortunately, it’s not as simple as that.” “Sexual objectification and sexual desire are two different things. Sexual desire and attraction is a normal and natural part of life. It involves two (or more) people stating their desire for one another and consenting to mutually agreed-upon sexual activity. So in the case of someone “using” the other for consensual sex, it’s not true objectification because both parties… Read more »
Women watching mainstream pornography? I was told that women find mainstream pornography disgusting, depressing, and degrading, and that the only reason women would possibly watch mainstream pornography is because they are abused and coerced into doing so by male acquaintances.
“But, women who work in pornography agreed to engage in sexual acts while being filmed with the knowledge that their sexual acts would be available to any person who paid to view them. Women who work at lewd establishments agreed to work there knowing that male patrons will leer at them. Yet, we are told that those practices and venues all constitute the objectification of women, even when the women agree to work there. ” The majority of women do not choose to do porn or work in clubs. That is a small fraction of the general population. The fact… Read more »
The fact that certain members of any gender agree to do something does not exclude the objectification of it. Um, yes, I know. That was the point I brought up. The author of this article said that consensual intercourse is “not true objectification because both parties have agreed (hopefully!) to engage in the act,” therefore suggesting that if the parties have consented to the act, then that somehow precludes and prevents objectification. I was pointing out that this contention seem wildly contradictory against common feminist talking points, and as further indication that the article was not well considered and poorly… Read more »
@ Erin “If a male actors agrees to be in a show or commercial where the man is portrayed as an idiot, where lots of stereotypes are made about men in general in his character, does that mean it’s okay to stereotype men and send those messages out about men?” There are two things at play. Shows that people come to watch and commercials that someone may not be aware that they’re going to see. For the commercial, there is an added nuance. These commercials are being made to pander to women. Look at the back lash Huggies received for… Read more »
Sure John, there is always some level of unawareness when you watch *any* media. You don’t always know what you’re going to get which is part of the allure right? I just don’t think that’s justification on why some forms of media shouldn’t be objectifying (commercials and shows that stereotype men, masculinity, fatherhood ect ect ect) while it’s perfectly okay that other forms of media are objectifying (porn). In another discussion we had you mentioned consistency and how you utilize it. Lets utilize consistency here as well. Lets not stand for media that stereotypes men. And lets not stand for… Read more »
@ Erin “Today, you don’t need to make a conscious effort to access highly sexual or demeaning entertainment. It’s streamlined into our homes 24/7 in a way not even the TV can provide ” But you do tend to need to look for it. That’s the point. I suppose you can stumble upon porn although I never have. Many sites also have an age verification page, which usually does no good even if you’re under 18, but many sites that have age requirements depend on “the honor system”. “I have watched you give facts, hold debate and in-depth discussion around… Read more »
I do not doubt this. Though their profession is hardly the only one that causes a person to regularly encounter the worst of humanity and cultivate a bitter and cynical disposition. Plenty of those to be had, which pay less.
Doesn’t this article violate the “others have it worse than you so shut your mouth”fallacy? I’m sure there is a better name for it. I’m just not that well versed in logic and rhetoric.
I call it butwomengetitworse derailing. It’s very common when many feminists write articles about harms against men, like rape. There is an incessant need to play oppression olympics and say BUT WOMEN GET IT WORSE and the article will feel like the author is annoyed that men’s issues get any attention and “distract from the real issues”.
It’s a great way to completely turn men off from feminism quite frankly.
Note the rationalization the author employs to keep objectification tight to the vest – it is present at the individual level for men, but entry is denied at the systemic level. Same card trick used when redefining racism to mean prejudice + power. At the institutional and much desired societal level, oppressions need intervention and infusion of money and effort. And this level is heavily protected against incursions from less desirable groups who also want to claim oppression – RSVP It’s #notallmen, it is just the society full of men that cause these problems of objectification – their ideas, language,… Read more »
Sexual desire and attraction is a normal and natural part of life. It involves two (or more) people stating their desire for one another and consenting to mutually agreed-upon sexual activity. Okay, so something only counts as acceptable “sexual desire and attraction” when the all parties have stated and reciprocated “their desire for one another”? And until the moment that the parties have communicated and consented to their “desire for one another,” it does not count as “sexual desire.” So what is it then, until it reaches that point? Objectification? So when a male person sees a female person (or… Read more »
@ Megalodon
My opinion on that line was then almost all main stream porn can’t be depicted as objectification contrary to what other comments here suggest. In almost all mainstream porn the female communicates a desire to have the act done to her regardless of how “demeaning” it is. I suspect Ridgway wouldn’t agree with that so there’s probably a huge double standard she’s protecting.
The article admits to answering a question which only feminists are asking. So I think we can consider it answered (not that we knew there was a question). The rest of the article, the standard ‘sexual objectification leads to misogyny’ is part of feminism. I’m still wondering though how far feminism is willing to go to ‘outlaw’ hetero male sexual outlets. The sexual revolution has created massive opportunities for objectification of women. I don’t know how that genie will get put back in the bottle. But we have a government which can profile us and monitor most of what we… Read more »
I actually would say the backlash from the sexual revolution created massive opportunities for objectification of women. I think a lot of sexual objectification of women in male entertainment is a means to “put women in their place” and punish women. I think a lot of male entertainment that’s built on objectifying women is more about men’s anger at women. And while the genie may not be put back in the bottle, as a woman, I still got to fight against it. Because sexual objectification of my gender just hurts to the bone on a deeply personal level. What hurts… Read more »
You do realize a similar level of boys feel shit about their bodies too though? So if males are objectified less, is there something else causing the insecurity more so than objectification or is it simply different between the genders? I think what is important is to move towards celebrating female sexuality and not treating women like toys in male entertainment. I just saw an ad for SHOES with upskirts of women, seriously, wtfff. Leave the porn for porn sites, etc, ads for shoes should be about the damn shoes. The pretty young things trope in movie needs to die… Read more »
At this point, I am not sure I agree that boys feel a “similar level” as girls do about their bodies. I do think there is growing objectification of men’s looks in the media. But do I think young boys and men are experiencing the same thing women are? Not really. Doesn’t mean I don’t think boys body image isn’t an important issue. But there is a larger body of disparity in how young girls feel about their bodies vs young boys. There is a huge marked drop in how girls feel about their bodies when they turn 13 vs… Read more »
I have a soft spot for Olivia, I can’t help it but her eyes absolutely captivate me and I love her acting too. Judi Dench is another great actress as well as Helen. We need more screentime for actresses of all ages. I meant level as in % of population, probably chose the wrong word. Last stats I saw had a similar amount of insecure men n women, but their body issues differ a bit. In general Men were more worried about muscle size, penis size, sexual prowess, whereas women from what I understand are more worried about body fat… Read more »
@ Erin “Meanwhile, they would never tolerate a woman telling him what he should or shouldn’t feel objectified by..” And women have no problem telling men how men are objectified and to what extent and if men don’t agree then other women will rush to their defense. If anyone ever wrote an article on male suicide and said that was the real problem because men committed suicide at 3 times the rate of women then referred to women’s suicide as “complicated” because women attempt suicide at twice the rate of men so it seems women use suicide as more of… Read more »
Erin, you make some good points. I can sense women nodding their heads all across America. I think we’ve reached the point where sexist ads, porn, and various other media harmful to women should be outlawed. Now that’s easy for me to say since they don’t personally impact me. Sacrifices must be made to make things right.
Pursuit, please don’t sell yourself short. I actually don’t think it’s easy for you to say. I have seen you make many thoughtful, introspective comments across a wide range of topics from a perspective that wasn’t just about how these things affect you or other men, but how they also affect others, with compassion and fairness. You deserve to be acknowledged for that. Because it is going to be men like you that help change the current landscape. I am not neccesary against sexual media. I’m against how a lot of sexual media currently sexists. I don’t completely understand why… Read more »
You do realize that PursuitAce was being sarcastic in his reply?
I will let Pursuit clear that up for us because I don’t detect sarcasm in his response. It seemed very sincere to me.
So you think PursuitAce was sincerely suggesting that pornography and sexist ads should be outlawed?
If you read PursuitAce’s other comments on this article, it is apparent that he does not agree with this article or its premises and is employing some mockery.
Unless you think he’s serious when he says he looks forward to the government using surveillance and “pharmaceutical” methods to control our “deviant” behavior? Or was he serious when he said he may “already be a rapist” and “will be blaming the Patriarchy”?
Something is wrong when you want to have sex with another group of people but you don’t want them to have a say in how they are being depicted and respresented. Assume for argument sake that female persons have no say or influence in pornography (even though that is not the case). Pornography is usually a form of fantasy and escapism for those who view it. A typical point of escapism and fantasy is to have some mimetic forum or space in which one can do things without the constraints and encumbrances of the usual real world which the person… Read more »
I’m not sure how many times I need to say it: Porn is made for men, by a dominantly-run male industry. The people making choices about what will be seen, how it will be seen are largely other men, catering to a dominate male demographic. Implying that women have control and influence over what is shown in porn is liking claiming that men have control and influence over what goes into a woman’s magazine. Despite the fact that sex should be a 100% collaborative partnership, porn itself is all about male pleasure. So if we go on what we see… Read more »
You keep reciting that analogy about films of Nazis and anti-Semites abusing and oppressing Jewish people. If contemporary Nazis and anti-Semites wish to make films, pictures and other mimetic media in which they abuse and oppress people of whatever race, I think they have a right to do so. Some people may find it appealing, others will not. If they actually started to attack and kill people, then that would be something to stop with the force of law. And just so you know, mixing pornography with the kind of Nazi themed abuse narratives is not entirely unprecedented. The closest… Read more »
Whilst there is probably sarcasm in his post, I do absolutely hate seeing oversexualization in ads. A car ad doesn’t need a woman to sell it. Even sex scenes in movies get tiring.
I don’t think the majority of guys even get it. Until they have daughters themselves, and they start seeing what the world is like for females. We’ll let you in on some disturbing secrets… Some guys who have daughters still view pornography. Some guys who have daughters still patronize lewd establishments. Some guys who have daughters still patronize prostitutes. Some guys who have daughters still fantasize about female persons in the same age range as their daughters (you don’t need to see “American Beauty” to know that). Even when men have daughters and see “what the world is like for… Read more »
Re-read my earlier comments: “Then you see men gain self awareness about media that’s begun to objectify and stereotype men. Which is a much newer phenomena in the grand scheme of things. And right away, men are ready to jump all over that. Men got Huggies to change their commercials to being more positive and supportive of men and Dads. Meanwhile, you know that alot of these same guys will turn to their computers, shut their doors, and head for www. young horny sl*ts .com -” I am well aware of the hypcrisy on this issue. I am well aware… Read more »
It’s called psychological “splitting” where people divide their difference predilections and preferences. Sometimes people cannot and will not reconcile their conflicting preferences or desires. Some people lose sexual interest in their spouse after the spouse has children, because they cannot reconcile sexual affection with nurturing affection, and they think being sexually interested in the parent of their children is in some way violating their own children. Then again, some degree of “splitting” may be necessary. If men viewed and empathized with all women in the same way that they viewed and empathized with their daughters or mothers, then they would… Read more »
Josh, I got issues for sure. How does that deter from the intelligence of my response or observations? We all operate in the world with some matter of issues we built due to life experiences. It’s not exactly unique to me. And no, I am not taking a “subset of sexuality”. Hardcore sex is the norm now-a-days. It’s not the “subset”. Oh and really? For every porno of male on female bdsm there is female on male bdsm? I don’t think so. Either way, both are still largely designed around male fantasies predominantly. Porn is made largely for men in… Read more »
Your bigotry is showing along with your issues around sex. Your belief that the larger part of the male population think that sex or sexual fantasy is ‘using a woman as a punching bag’, is nothing more than your own victim fantasy. Are you in everyones bedrooms when they fuck? Again you are taking peoples CONSENTING sexual behaviour and asking for it to go away or be criminalised on nothing more than YOUR feelings. You can denie reality all you like but you have no business to tell others on how they spend their time, who they do it with… Read more »
What bigotry? What issues do I have around sex? Have you and I had sex at some point? Are you that Josh? (Ever lived in NJ?) Does my dislike for the objectification of women in male entertainment automatically mean I got issues with sex? Because women should love their own objectification? Because it should make us feel good that men have very little regard for women when it comes to male entertainment? Do you not realize what men’s fantasies are saying about how men want to relate to women that is very disturbing to witness as a woman? First, lets… Read more »
Are you sure that is true? Because you have previously complained about how men sometimes ask real women to reenact certain practices and actions observed from pornography and you condemned this as some terrible, disgusting example of pornography’s influence, even if some women may actually consent to the request.
Its my belief that Erin has problems around her sexual worth in comparison with other women in her social demographic in regards to the things she is willing to do versus what other women will. Or, she feels that some how her sexual value is lower than the rest (looks maybe) and that the only way she can even the score is to consider doing things she isn’t comfortable with. On the same level she has to compete with porn and the sex industry at large. Add to that the ever increasing amount of casual sex going on and I… Read more »
Clearly Josh you get off on hypothesizing and pathologizing me. Is it now my turn to hypothesize and pathologize where I believe you stand when it comes to your relationship with women and why you seem mentally unable to talk about objectification of women or acknowledge it as a valid point? After all, if you’re allowed to talk about what you perceive my sexuality is and who you believe I am, am I not allowed to do the same to you? I am. But I won’t. Because I won’t sit here and pretend I know you as the multi-dimensional human… Read more »
Megalodon, I care about the impact media has on us as a collective group. I may not agree with, but I also would never want to deny, you’re right to practice whatever you want to practice in your own home. I still reserve the right to talk about the impact I may see, experience myself or believe to be happening as a result of said actions.
We can talk about how we personally believe media affects our culture while still respecting the rights of an individuals freedom.
You said “I don’t care what you consent to do with another woman in your own bedroom.” But if a man is privately trying to reenact standard pornographic methods with a female companion because of the influence and impact of pornographic media that he has consumed, you seem to think that is a bad thing and further evidence of pornography’s pernicious power. Just because you concede that people have a right to do something in private does not mean that you are neutral and agnostic about that they do. You are not indifferent to it. Saying simply that you “don’t… Read more »
Everyone cares, to some extent, some much more than others, on what others do sexually. We live to compare – size up – and fit in. We need to put death to the myth that we do not care. It is impossible to have a conversation in this mythic world. Our worth and sexual worth overlap extensively in what we believe about ourselves. Younger, attractive, successful, wealthy, are all seen as having more worth than their opposites. A lot of self help guidance asks us to de-emphasize the worth of these and maximize more qualitative traits such as emotional intelligence,… Read more »
Female on male BDSM may not yet be as ubiquitous as male on female BDSM, but it is not some negligible fraction. It had to gain some kind of popularity to get to the point where the “Dominatrix” is now a stock figure not only in pornography, but even in mainstream entertainment. If pornography is only about men wanting to inflict violence and domination upon women, things like femdom and CBT should not even be genres. There is even a genre of POV (point of view) pornography where the female narrator insults and disparages the (presumably) male viewer, saying how… Read more »
@ Megalodon
It may be because female domination has it’s own name femdom when it comes to porn. If you just search BDSM, it will show mostly men dominating women not because femdom doesn’t exist, but because it is so prevalent that it has it’s own distinctive name. That’s not even the only male humiliation thing. There is CFNM (clothed female nude male). There is forced “milking”.
“In the end, all arguing, “Hey, women objectify men, too!” does is distract from the real problem — deeply ingrained, misogynistic, sexual oppression against women.:”
Interesting that this appear when GMP is asking men about their issues with GMP … kinda feels like a slap in the face, thumb to nose, fingers waving and a good “nonny nonny new new.”
Sorry Tom, we don’t make changes to the site in real time. We consider the responses, listen to what people are saying, look at what types of posts our community is submitting and we make overall editorial decisions based thoughtful analysis of what everyone is saying. There are hundreds of articles that are only about men here on GMP. On today’s front page, there are articles about boxers and fighters, male body image, men’s health—skin cancer and what to do about it, an article on 50 fathers, one on husbands, and a sex relationships story about how men are more… Read more »
On today’s front page, there are articles about boxers and fighters You mean the one about the female boxer who triumphs over borderline personality disorder? one on husbands That’s right. The one about the father who realizes that he is an inadequate and failed husband when he is contemplating the standards that his daughter’s suitors will have to fulfill. and a sex relationships story about how men are more than just the stereotypes about money and cars. Yes, the Jordan Gray article that says men have to reform their psychology so that they can seem to have “direction” in their… Read more »
Lisa, it was just ironic considering the other dialogue that was happening. Had this article been posted later or before, I have no doubt that there would be a reasonable dialogue/discussion focused on the content of the article. But as they say “timing is everything.” And perhaps the timing is good in that it exemplifies what some of us are/were saying.
BTW, I really like the guys tie.
Mamamia: A gynocentric ‘news’ site with a long history of libel, man bashing and misandry.(and the posts published by GMP show this) Sandy Peace: A feminist ‘therapist’ who has no problems labelling 5 year old boys ‘rapists in the making’ Elite Daily: A gynocentric man shaming ‘news’ site .(and the posts published by GMP show this) James Fell: Man shaming PUA in disguise Everyday feminism: Should be renamed Everyday Misandry The Daily Dot: Another website that loves a good bit of male bashing and shaming. .(and the posts published by GMP show this) Gretchen Edwards-Bodimer: A feminist blogger who denies… Read more »
8ball, the spam flag is an automated system.
No 8ball its not bull.
Its been explained here many times that the filtering is an automated system that searches for keywords and if a comment has any of those words its blocked and its up to the human moderators to review it and publish it.
We’ve been publishing content from Everyday Feminism for more than a year now, may even be two years. Before that, we were publishing content from Role/Reboot which is similar in nature. We also publish content from Feminist Wire, which is run by a man.
This isn’t new and we are proud of our associations with these sites.
I can only hope that at some point in the future you might re-evaluate those associations – while I believe that they are strong advocates for their own ideological worldview, I don’t think it’s a particularly nuanced, impartial, or enlightened one: I would question the overt pride one takes in association with it. Once again, this is another article whose whole raison d’être is simply to hammer the rhetoric that gender is the primary axis of power & discrimination; and thus, that which is universally & proportionately oppressed (as a class) can therefore easily be identified and represented as a… Read more »
@ Joanna Schroeder I think part of the push back you’re seeing is that we pay lip service to recognizing the growing issue of body shaming men and then post an article that suggests that this isn’t a cultural / society thing, but simply a few women in isolated incidents that has resulted in about 25% of people with eating disorders to be men / boys. I’ve had disagreements with you in the past. We’ve sometimes come to a middle ground by focusing on what is important. What is served by denying the objectification of men? What is served by… Read more »
“And men haven’t experienced systematic, centuries-long objectification like women have.” Technically many men were objects of war and had even less agency than women at certain times. This is why your comparisons about racism against whites (which doesn’t exist, cept maybe in some countries where whites are a minority and face oppression) fails miserably. There IS sexism against men, institutional oppression of men. It still exists around the world today in various countries, conscription. Even in the U.S you have the remnants of it where men HAVE TO SIGN UP or can face jailtime and/or a fine, and can’t get… Read more »
Archy, Archy, Archy… Quit bringing your lucid, intelligent, well thought out objections here. No one wants to hear any of that. (Credit to “My Cousin Vinny” on this one.)
Archy – I think Shannon is super clear in this piece that she’s talking about sexual objectification. She even says it outright in most places.
Even so her argument falls flat. The difference is women are objectified MORE, not that men can’t be objectified by women. Male strippers are often groped for instance, there is imagery that focuses on a man’s crotch for women’s entertainment, etc. She wins no favours by dismissing the effects of male sexual objectification.
@ Joanna Schroeder I think she’s even wrong there. The ancient Olympics were done in the nude and only men were allowed to participate. We also have instances like chicksinthehiddle where women “sportscasters” have made sexual / sexist comments about the male athletes they are reporting on. Why is it assumed that when men watch beach volleyball part of the draw is seeing women in bikinis, but when women watch male athletes they have completely suppressed their sexual desire for a fit male form. I suspect based on the chicksinthehuddle thing, based on what women have said about male actors,… Read more »
It’s probably to act holier than thou, acting like many women don’t drool over men.