Writer Karen Jones wants gals who catch men doing self-deprecating humor to encourage them to stop. Then tell them how great they are, instead.
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It happened again; yet another man who seemed resigned to being a member of the “men are useless” club.
Just this morning, I was having this lovely chat with a guy from the gas company while he was replacing the meters, and he said something I hear way too many men say some version of:
“Well, we (meaning men) have to be good for something!”
How I responded – immediately, and to his surprise, was:
“No! You don’t get to do that with me, the woman who wrote a book called Men are Great…sorry.”
And we proceeded to have the most wonderful conversation about how men are way too comfortable with self-deprecating “humor”, and with how men are being talked about (pretty much everywhere). We talked about how the truth is that it really does bother most men.
But you men can’t afford to look like pussies and complain, right? Please know that it harms you. We humans are so impacted by language. Even if you think it’s “only a joke”, it is hurtful.
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But you men can’t afford to look like pussies and complain, right? So you suck it up, and not only listen to/watch/read the awful ways you’re portrayed, but – and this is where you have got to cut it out – join in and perpetuate the negative ways in which you’re represented.
Please know that it harms you. We humans are so impacted by language. Even if you think it’s “only a joke”, it is hurtful.
So, please stop, okay?
Signed,
Karen Jones – a woman who thinks you’re great, and wants you to own it
P.S. And you gals who catch men doing that, encourage them to stop. Then tell them how great they are, instead. Deal?
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Photo by Alessandro Calza
Hi. I am a 34-year-old loner who has never had a girlfriend, and will most likely die alone. From having a mother who was a verbally abusive sadist who loved to explain to the world what garbage I am, and having a former best friend all the way back from high-school who constantly picked women up off the streets, damn near impregnated them that same night, and regularly demoted me to a Third-Fucking-Wheel… I don’t even like talking about sexually at all. I am also a Muay-Thai kickboxer who worships physical training and violence, and I want to maximize my… Read more »
I really want to feel for anyone who has been downtrodden and I will always root for the underdog. But with men statistically making larger narratives in film, media, and advertising this is not necessarily the case. The idea of useless is not only something women might say but also the ‘mook’ archetype, not only propagated by the male comics of the world, but also the men who consume that identity yet still gain status from it amongst fellow men. If we choose to focus on film and television alone, over 75% of all writing and directing is done by… Read more »
Jayme, you make great points. I also want you to consider how much buying power we women have; it’s one of the ways we shape what is in the media.
Thanks for your comment!
Karen
I would make this point, though, Jayme: although men should be willing to advocate for their own freedoms, they all too often don’t, because, as Karen wrote “they can’t afford to look like pussies.” Of course, that’s largely the fault of male culture itself, although many women contribute to this by rejecting men who would dare to complain. I think the fact that men don’t seem to advocate for each other as men in these narratives on TV and such is an indication of just how restricted they feel. Either way, I think in this modern day, when men are… Read more »
I’m just curious as to which commenting policy rule I broke with my last comment so as to lose it to the ‘Moderation’ abyss?
Karen, Thank you for this. This is to be expected. Men have less of a voice in the media than ever before. It may not be biased against men (any more than it is against any group) but it is certainly less friendly than it used to be. A key part of the male psyche involved being able to endure hardship. “Man up” “Be a man” etc. We know this and we know how challenging it is. If men do not handle this very delicately, they will scare women away. Modern Western women are looking for a character ideal in… Read more »
Rick, I agree with you that there are deep/instinctive forces at play that tend to perpetuate this situation. We will (all) eventually evolve, but, I’m afraid, it’s going to take a very long time. Thanks for your comments, and for your feedback.
Karen
And you guys are American: the Country with the highest percentage of obese men in this world. In fact, there are more overweight men than women over there – and straight American men still want to complain about (well, many times actually shame, degrade, humiliate and hurt) women! Males are less prone to retain fat as well and naturally have/need a lower fat percentage, so overweight or obese men are even more unhealthy, haha. Entitlement and superiority complex (along with sexism, seeing women as sub-human or just plain objects, phallocentrism and so on) is indeed a given when it comes… Read more »
I think you’re on the wrong website. If you find the right one make sure it’s not some kind of New Zealand website. They just outlawed trolling. Of course the web is universal so you may be in trouble already. If you’re a woman it may not matter. Sounds like they’re still trying to work it out over there, just next to down under.
Here you go Karen, Lolabunny, exhibit A.(seems that if you post as a woman here,you’re pretty much exempt from the commentary guidelines)
THANKS SO MUCH, LOLABUNNY for providing us a textbook example of the kind of abusive crap men have dished out to them on a daily basis. Well done. We love you textbook example, folks. It validates article’s like Karen’s. So keep up the good work.
And yet Mark, did you happen to notice that, other than Karen, Lolabunny is the only female to comment on this article? Sometimes I fear that women like Karen, precious as they are, are but a ‘Voice in the Wilderness’.
Hi Bobbt
Here is one female that read the article and never commented.
The reason I had nothing to say is that I have never heard anyone talk like that and say that men are useless. It is a weird thing to say .
What can I say silke? Come to America and you’ll hear it all the time. It’s become so commonplace, so much a part of our society, I’m sure most women don’t even realize it. I know that when I pointed it out to my own wife, first she denied it existed. Then when I showed it to her, she said I was being overly sensitive. It was when I put it to her as “O.K., you’re telling me that it’s alright for women to speak about your son this way?” that she had no comeback and realized I was right.
Lolabunny, I am going to guess that you’ve been hurt in your past – as has everyone over the age of 12. I also want to say that your comment was not a helpful contribution to the conversation. There is work to be done to have the relationships between men and women be mutually growth-fostering (and the world needs this from us!). Please be a positive influence. It matters. Thank you.
Karen
Lolabunny, honey, sounds like you have an agenda of sadness: I’m sorry you’ve been hurt, but I don’t think you’re correct. Yes, there are men who are assholes, who judge women unfairly, but there are many if not more women who judge other women much more harshly. I’ve known thin guys that like large women. I don’t think men operate much from entitlement or superiority, any more than women in our culture, they are just the ones saddled with presenting a confident front to women in the whole man/woman game. Many of them fake that confidence because they have to,… Read more »
Hi Karen. Fantastic piece! The key for both genders is for each gender to acknowledge how the respective gender differences lead to a greater good. Take an orchestra, for example, are the string instruments any better than the percussion than the woodwind? No! All of those instruments together make music. We live in an age where something is good or it is bad. This black and white thinking is bad for everyone. The key is for men and women to listen to their spirit and act according to what they are being told. All of us share one spirit. That… Read more »
Thanks, Mark Parbus, for your feedback, which I appreciate, and for your great comments!
Karen
Million dollar question Karen. Why indeed do men go along. Maybe Male Disposability has something to do with it? Most men are still ‘rated’ by what they do for a living. What function or product they provide to society. After all, when speaking disparagingly about a man ,what’s the first phrase uttered? Right! “He’s good for NOTHING! Since men are judged by the work they do and you don’t rate the quality of your work yourself, others do that so in effect, others rate YOU!
Reminds me of …Married couple, no kids, If a women chooses to stay home and not work, she has made a choice and it’s socially acceptable. If a man stays home and chooses not to work, he’s a lazy bum.
Even with the advancements that have been made with respect to stay at home dad’s, there are still many raised eye brows as to why HE is not working.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” ― Eleanor Roosevelt Guys! Men! Elevate your mind, soul, and spirit…… Learn to fight back. Don’t take this s*$t anymore. If you don’t like the way you are portrayed in a State Farm insurance commercial, don’t buy the product. The problem is that the only people I see who are fighting back against all this rubbish about men are: gay men and women. That’s pathetic fellas. If you offend someone, tough s&&t!!! They will get over it. Stand your ground. Stop putting yourself down. Look at our achievements. Walk with… Read more »
Hey, Jules – you are most welcome! And here’s to men walking with heads held high, shoulders back, and filled with pride for who you are and for everything you do. YES!
Karen
Jules, I agree on some levels. A saying we use with some of the kids I work with “why do you let someone take space in your brain without charging rent.” But that’s an easy saying when another client is purposely pushing a kids buttons. Many of the thoughts and feelings are there because they were planted there many years ago. Take a kid from the west side of Chicago who from the start, experience male negativity from the day they started to understand words. They also see what men represent such as fatherless homes and the few men they… Read more »
Society tells men that we’re responsible for the entirety of evil in the world. Yet it doesn’t allow us to take credit for anything good. At all.
So, men have two options: Break down from the weight of 10,000 years worth of evil being dropped unceremoniously onto our shoulders, or laugh at it.
Between the two, which would you do?
8Ball, one of the (many) things I love about men is the way you can bring humor to just about anything. I do hope this piece helps men to see that there’s a downside to that way of handling the trend that’s been going on, of demeaning men. Thanks for your comment.
Karen
There is a very fine line here, by laughing about something in a way that makes ‘fun’ of it you are indeed taking a lot of negative power away from said thing. This is one of the cornerstones of the social activity known as banter – targeting and highlighting sore topics/embarrassing things with your friends and turning it from a negative to a humorous experience/positive. But of course there is the other side of the coin, by laughing at something too much or every time, you start to accept such a thing as truth and subconsciously accept/believe. So yes the… Read more »
Per Anon, I totally get what you’re saying…I think humor can diffuse so many things. And I’m also reminded of a phrase my stepfather used a lot: “Kidding on the square” (a more common version: “there’s truth in jest”). Maybe with more awareness, and heightened sensitivity to the impact, things can change for the better. Thanks for the comment!
Karen
Bravo, 8ball.
No-one has the right to drop group responsbility in anyone for the actions of a few.
Laugh long and laugh loud at such people.
Men don’t all of a sudden get to this point, it takes time to lose your self esteem. Like it or not, the “Men are Useless” attitude is clearly a sign of depression. Although I have my gripes about GMP, they have done a good job educating men and women on male depression,.
But this is something we should look at and that’s the countless messages that are sent out that cause men to question their worth.
Is there no wonder why guys feel this way?
Tom Brechlin, the messages are awful, and they DO have a harmful impact. And I love that the GMP is making a difference this way.
Karen
Seriously, this , being told that you’re ‘good for nothing and stupid is something just about every male in America has felt with as long as we can remember. Show any kind of emotional hurt and you’re told “What’s wrong with you! Can’t you take a joke!” As to what OrishM stated, having worked in bars and clubs when I was younger, one of the staples in a ‘Girls night out’ is when they all start telling competing stories about the ‘Stupid’ things their husbands or boyfriends have done (sometimes this delves into ‘Shortcomings ‘in bed). And just incase you… Read more »
I do know that this is going on, and it hurts my heart every time I hear a woman, or a group of women, diving in to the “men are useless” stuff. I’m sorry for every time you’ve felt like the recipient of this kind of hurtful stuff – from any source.
Karen
First off Karen, it’s not necessary for you to apologize for the women who participate in this. It’s squarely on these indivuials and not you or other women necessarily. I know that for that very reason my wife’s never been a fan of ‘ girls night out’ as this sort of talk upsets her. Jules is right that there are many men out there who are just as big a part of the problem. Although I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t similar to the situation where a victim of abuse becomes an abuser himself?
“Seriously, this , being told that you’re ‘good for nothing and stupid is something just about every male in America has felt with as long as we can remember.”
I have NEVER felt this way. NEVER….Anyone who has ever attempted to speak to me in a condescending manner have gotten a quick rebuke from me….Men need to stop putting up with this crap, especially White men. The sad reality is that it is usually other men who are behind all this. Call them out!!! Don’t support their businesses. Let them know they cannot and will not get away it!!!
This was so nice to read. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have become so use not only to being told I’m useless, but also never being told that I’m very good at anything at all. There is definitely a shift in society going on where it is a bit unfashionable to tell guys when we’ve done something right. (And I get it – oppression of others has stemmed from men being in charge). But, not all of us are political. Some of us are just trying to get by day to day, and the constant barrage of put… Read more »
True, Danny – we all have to be aware of, and working on, this. Thanks for your comment!
Karen
Evan, you are so welcome. I’m glad this helped. And I hope you feel even a little bit more freed up to celebrate your greatness!
Karen
I appreciate this. All too often a guy praising an accomplishment is taken in a bad context (usually that he’s arrogant or he’s sexist against women).
Its gonna take a group effort to confront this.
Women are big drivers of this and they need to knock it off too.
I agree OirishM …
Did you ever write that article for GMP?
I can’t even remember what article I threatened to write! I’d do it but depends how much control I’d have over ownership of anything I submit.
Glad I didn’t miss it then. It was back when one of the writers was challenging us. maybe I have it somewhere, I’ll let you know.
Ah, if that was what the impetus was, then that probably wouldn’t have encouraged me to write an article.
Those sorts of “just submit your own articles guise” comments are usually made by staff who don’t respect commenters If I’m not getting respect down here, I sure won’t be wasting my time trying to put writing up there.
OirishM, you are absolutely right, and I’m workin’ on it. This issue is one of the biggest reasons I felt compelled to write “Men are Great” – to get women to understand, and to change some of the ways of handling their relationships with men. Thank you for the comment!
Karen
Wasn’t meant as criticism, just I don’t think this issue in particular can be talked about without a mention of women’s role in it somewhere. Women really are a big part of the issue on this one!
Totally agree with you. And this isn’t said to derail this but Hillary is a prime example. It’s time for a women to be president because men have screwed things up. It’s not a matter of the best “person” for the country but instead show men in bad light and women to the rescue.
I love this. Thank you Karen!
I admit, I do it too. I think there are lots of reasons for it. For me, I just try to keep a good sense of humor. Even when life gets really serious, its always good to joke, it takes the edge off. So the self-depreciating humor plays right into that. But you’re right, we deserve credit and its good to be mindful of that.
Thanks!
Yes, JayM, you DO deserve credit, and to be honored, and to be mindful of that (and hey, I’m a huge fan of laughter…let’s just keep men away from being the butt of the jokes!). Thanks for the comment.
Karen