Why Does It Matter How Many Partners She’s Had?

Hugo Schwyzer explains why guys are so preoccupied with getting women’s sex stats—and why they should just let it go.

Judging from what I read online and hear from my students, the question of the “number” is as compelling as ever. This month, Marie Claire ran an article, “What’s Your Number?” in which five women (whose numbers ranged from zero to 100) told their stories. The March issue of Cosmopolitan Australia features the same discussion, noting that 59 percent of readers surveyed thought knowing a partner’s exact number was important, and that 33 percent of those same readers had lied about their own pasts, claiming fewer sexual partners than they’d actually had.

(A quick note: most people use “the number” to refer to the count of people with whom they’ve had heterosexual intercourse. Any kind of sex that doesn’t involve a penis inside a vagina usually “doesn’t count.” A lot of us are like Bill Clinton in that regard, not seeing oral sex as real sex. This is a very limited—and limiting—understanding of what sex really is. But that’s a topic for another day.)

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It’s understandable to be curious about the sexual lives of our peers. It makes sense to want to know what the averages are. (According to the experts at the Kinsey Institute, the average number of lifetime sexual partners for men aged 30 to 44 is around seven, while for women in that same age group, it’s four—both lower than you might think).

But the number has different meanings for men and women. The old double standard is still alive and well: a man with more sexual partners than his buddies may be teasingly called a “man whore,” but the epithet is a compliment, not an insult. Ask a woman who has dared reveal her number to someone who considers it too high, and she’ll surely tell you a story of being “slut-shamed.”

It’s quite common for a guy to worry about a girlfriend’s sexual past. Too many men are still raised to see sex as crude competition, in which bedding a woman who has already had a lot of lovers counts less than scoring with a woman who is “hard to get.” But I think the average guy’s worry is simpler than that. The more men his girlfriend has slept with, the greater number of lovers to which she can compare his skills. It’s easier to win a contest against two than against 20, he figures. And even easier to rank first when he’s the only one to have ever played the game. No wonder so many men—in this country and around the world—are obsessed with finding a virgin.

This is the real reason why so many men get so filled with rage at sexually experienced women. And of course, it’s the real reason so many women feel compelled to lie about their number.

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Too many women have told their boyfriends their real number, only to be nagged incessantly for explicit details. (One friend of mine recounted to me in horror how her current boyfriend stopped one day in the middle of giving her oral sex to ask how his technique compared.) Other women find that their boyfriends endlessly psychoanalyze the reasons for a number that they think is too high: “Did you sleep with so many men because your father left you when you were a child?” (If I had a dollar for every woman I know who’s been asked that question, I could buy everyone reading this a Slurpee. Seriously.)

At this point, some men are probably protesting: “But I don’t slut-shame or endlessly analyze. For me, it’s not all about competing with other guys. Isn’t the number an important thing to know about someone you might be serious about? Isn’t it something I have a right to know?”

That sounds reasonable. But again, why is it so important to know an exact number? What difference does it make? Knowing whether a potential girlfriend has ever been in love before is important; discovering (slowly and patiently) how her past experiences have impacted her view of men (for better or worse) is important. But really, what’s the difference whether she’s slept with four or 14 men? She isn’t defined by her number—and if there’s a chance you might change how you see her when you discover the truth (should she tell you), why ask?

This has nothing to do, by the way, with asking about sexual health. It’s a great idea to talk about sexually transmitted infections; it’s a great idea for a new couple to get tested before having unprotected sex. We have a right to know if a potential partner has herpes. But the exact number itself is altogether different.

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I lost my virginity at 17 to my high-school girlfriend. She was a year younger but much more sexually experienced. She was my first for anything that went below the waist; I was the fifth guy she’d had sex with. I’d asked her number, of course, and then fought hard not to obsess about the four boys who had “been there” before me. But I saw the pain my questions caused her. And I came to realize that it didn’t matter.

I don’t know my wife’s number. I’ve never asked her. She’s never asked for mine. I know enough from the stories she’s told to know that there was more than one guy before me; she knows enough about my past to figure out that she can’t count my lovers on her fingers. Beyond that, we—who have shared so much sexually and emotionally in our nine years as a couple, six years as spouses, and two years as parents together—don’t need to know more specifics.

When we’re in a monogamous relationship, what we have a right to insist on is that no names get added to the list after our own. It doesn’t matter if I’m number five or 55. I’ll be crushed if my wife adds a number six or a 56 behind my back.

But the right to ask to be last is not the same as the right to know how far we are from the first. And for me, part of being a good man is knowing what I don’t need to know.

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Other Stories From the Good Men Project Magazine:

Men and the Sexualization of Young Girls

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Husband Confronts Abortion Protesters [VIDEO]

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Why Don’t Men Initiate Divorce?

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Red-Hot Monogamy

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Marriage: Just Don’t

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The Prostitute Who Saved My Relationship

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Are Men Natural-Born Cheaters?

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What Your Marriage Needs to Survive

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—Photo by eflon/Flickr

Why Does It Matter How Many Partners She’s Had?

About Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo Schwyzer has taught history and gender studies at Pasadena City College since 1993, where he developed the college's first courses on Men and Masculinity and Beauty and Body Image. He serves as co-director of the Perfectly Unperfected Project, a campaign to transform young people's attitudes around body image and fashion. Hugo lives with his wife, daughter, and six chinchillas in Los Angeles. Hugo blogs at his website

Comments

  1. My situation is a little different and my lady and I both need help. We were together for almost 4 years and apart for a year and a half before reconnecting this summer. Now we live together and neither of us can get past what happened while we were not a couple. Our circumstances differ and the reasoning differs but it all comes down to “why did you have to do it with that person or that person”. We judge each other and we obsess over it sometimes because having known each other for so long, lying about a number or particular person is nearly impossible. We know each other too damn well! We know when the other is lying, but also understand why the other is lying. It’s madness! We do want to be together and love each other very much. Hell, we missed each other like crazy! What should we do?!?

  2. basically, it is a simple situation of not wanting to be with a women that other guys can come up to you and say they have had sex with. Men are cruel, especially to each other.

  3. Marcus Lundgren says:

    I think the number is irrelevant if she’s had more than one other lover.
    One is enough.

    I would only have sex with a woman I was serious about, and I’d expect her to feel the same.
    And having had sex with someone else is, in my opinion, not being serious,

    People should be serious about sex BEFORE they try it,
    I haven’t tried it yet. Partly because I haven’t met anyone, but also because it’s very difficult to find
    virgins at my age (38).

    I don’t know, it’s not so much that I’d feel like I was competing with other men by having sex with an experienced woman. It’s more the thought that some other man has had his ding dong up in her, that makes me feel uneasy.

    The same with kissing a woman who’s given other men blow jobs. Jesus!

  4. This is how I vew things:
    It is not about STD’s or sexual skills, it is more about the morallity of the act and who would not love to be the first or second of someone whom they really love ? Sex can be learned and itself is just a glue for keeping people together.

    • But I was afraid that when I lost my virginity to him and they said I would remember and if I wasn’t good he’d leave me! That’s why I did it! Not because I was in love with him! But because I wanted to not get rejected!

  5. Half the comments on this page is the living reason why women sleep around; men are hypocrites. Why pick one asshole in particular?

    • Women are sleeping around more than ever before.

    • Actually, this article is ridiculous.

      There is now definitive research that shows that the number of sexual partners a woman has had is one of THE MOST PREDICTIVE factors in whether she will end up in a divorce, etc.

      Google it. Interestingly, the same does not apply to men – which actually makes biological sense. We need to start focusing on the medical fact that promiscuous sex is bad for women.

    • My problem with high numbers is lack of discipline/self knowledge. That is unless you like sleeping around then more power to you. I know I cannot date everyone and am fine with that. But please understand I put myself under the same rules, if not more, than I demand from a partner.

      I also make sure to keep my number in check because I can only have sex with someone I know deeply. Which if I have to be honest sometimes sucks but it is the only way my body goes haha!

  6. Alexander says:

    I’m sorry, but I disagree with the article.

    There is no double standards. I expect decency from men as well as of women. And if my friend is indecent I trust him less.

    You can argue as much as you want against this instinct of caring for sexual past and that a pure woman is a virgin woman, you will loose. It is just mother nature, it has a good reason to give this instinct to us, I’m sure.

  7. Sorry, there are double standards..

    One small example would be crying… Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.

    I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.

    I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.

    I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.

    • Christopher93 says:

      Hear, hear! I can honestly say the same. The women I have known who have had an abnormally high number of sex partners (25-100+) have all been victims of sexual abuse as a child or had a major complex about body image issues (overweight, ugly, etc). All of them. I have never met an emotionally balanced (for lack of a better word) “slut” in my life.

      At the same time, I have never met an emotionally balanced woman who was a virgin until marriage either.

      I am a person who values sex as a part of a mutually committed romantic relationship, not a “hook up” thing. I’m also an atheist so nobody pull any bible/puritan criticism crap. It is not unreasonable for me to expect the same in a partner, and I am more than entitled to prefer it in a partner. I will not let anyone “shame” me into accepting our screwed up overly-liberated hook-up culture.

  8. But what if we value a potential mate because she/he has had few or even no mates? I understand that if it doesn’t matter to you whether your partner has slept with 5 mates or 500 mates but I believe that those who want a relationship with someone who has had 0-2 mates are entitled to that as well.

  9. Professah Bruno says:

    In the end what matters is what kind of a person she managed to be after all the guys she been with,because Men date a lot and so does women and some women may be scared or uncomfortable with the idea because they come across as innocent and nice girls,most Men don’t pay much attention to them maybe to the average Men they seem boring for not having dated before or lower numbers or just average the most important point is for you to accept the one that suits you or as the famous saying goes your soul mate…let me know your thoughts ah m just sharing mines???

  10. I don’t think it’s the no of men but did she have sex just to enjoy it without any emotional feelings for a man she could be 18 or 48 I think it takes away a mans trust if he thinks she just gave it up

  11. You choose says:

    How about we leave it at this. A lot of men care about the number,that’s the way the cookie crumbles so deal with it. Woman have a lot they want in a man, so lets make a post about how women expect a good career,a house,nice car,etc etc etc. fact is most men care and that’s that

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      ” How about we leave it at this. A lot of men care about the number,that’s the way the cookie crumbles so deal with it. Woman have a lot they want in a man, so lets make a post about how women expect a good career,a house,nice car,etc etc etc. fact is most men care and that’s that.”

      Some people are lost. The best is to focus on the new generation of men, making them more tolerant. And the same goes for women. When the horde of people with unrealistic expectation are gone, we can focus on much more important matters rather than waste time on who had more than 10 or less than 10 sex partners….incredible as it sound this for some is a life changing revelation. For me the big revelation is if she had none at all. That would surprise me, and not in a good sense O_o

      • “Some people are lost. The best is to focus on the new generation of men, making them more tolerant”- Supertypo

        I think you are lost Supertypo and the good news is neither of us will be here to see what future generations embrace.

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          “I think you are lost Supertypo and the good news is neither of us will be here to see what future generations embrace.”

          Well there was (is) the race factor, people judging other humans simply based on the color of the skin, there was (is) the gender factor, people judging other humans based on the sex and many more. Now tell me who is losing ground? the new wave, or the old guard? then do the math.

          • Now you want to divert into the territory of racism it has no place on this thread, its about values. As far as your old guard comments they are hardly a trump card to prove your point and no you cannot speak for everyone of your generation or future generations.

  12. As for yoru comment on soulmates, I don’t really beleive in that. I can see your point, but it seems to be connected to your ability to be with as many people as you want, right? What if someone with more discerning mate selection doesn’t see it as strict?

    I think it’s limiting to say that because you can sleep with whoever you want you will find a soulmate faster than someone who has less sex partners.

    Besides, isn’t the concept of soulmate based on factors like fate or destiny (right place right time)? If so, why would the mumber of sex partners matter?

    You’ve got me really curious, and I have a way of asking questions that is brazen, so my apologies if I offend.

  13. Andy, The “same number of people in the world” rule doesn’t apply to human beings. What about deaths, moving, birth rate and other factors that affect the “if the average number is 7 for men it’s 7 for women too”.

    I’m not going to tout a degree to say whether my point is more valid than yours or not, only that you are not taking a lot of outside factors into consideration.

    Also, as I’ve said before the numbers affect how men and women look at each other. There is a bias against a “lack of morals”, even if either side wants you to believe they are open minded and deserve to sleep around or bash each other for the sake of equality, or whatever it is. You aren’t more open minded if you have to insult the “other side” to make yourself feel better or your side look better. You’ve just found another way to do the same old thing.

    Aya, 30 is a high average for a women. I think it’s even a high number for men. I’m in my mid-20’s, and most of my girlfriends are around 10 or so. I’m not saying whether that’s good or bad, just higher than what’s nationally reported, and what I personally hear.

    I will say it’s odd you corrected “lose virtinity” to “give”, but did not correct that your boyfriend “lets” you sleep with whoever you want.

    • I’m not saying it’s not high for an average, I was just pointing out that in a place that is more liberal, most men don’t seem to care. 30 was an arbitrary number. Average does not have to equal “normal.” If the average is 10, then is 0 weird? I’m not trying to insult the other side. I understand that many people have other values. I think it’s just frustration from having my own values constantly degraded and called ‘immoral.’ It’s not ‘immoral,’ it’s just different. I couldn’t care less how many previous partners my man or woman has had (0, 1, 30, 100). That’s in their past. If they want to talk about it, they can. If they don’t, they don’t have to. I’ll listen to their story and if they tell it well, respect it.

      We all take different paths in life. I’ve been frustrated with men who have too few partners because they base their sex life on p0rn, but I’d never judge and I’m very willing to be patient and take the lead. I’ve been jealous of partners who have had a very large sexual history and was afraid I wouldn’t measure up, but I trust that he would be in the moment with me and enjoy my body and my intimacy. While it might not be more open minded, it definitely gives me more options to find a soulmate when I don’t have to use strict criteria (whether that’s calling a man a loser for not having had sexual experience or getting butthurt that he’s had too much).

      • Assuming that men who have “too few partners” means they are “inexperienced” and “base their sex life on p0rn” IS judgmental, which was my whole point.

        If someone told you they had 5 sex partners, it doesn’t say anything about them until you ask more questions. To assume someone with 5 sex partners thinks sex is like p0rn, and might not of spent years with each person or years with one of the 5 experimenting and exploring is as flawed as me assuming someone with 50 sex partners is automatically a whore. .

        A man who has 100 partners could of had fleeting conquests and based every encounter on P0rn, right? Increasing your number of partners does not reflect skill level. That’s like saying you need to play 100 different guitars to improve. You don’t. You only need to practice.

        I think closed-mindedness shouldn’t be limited to the number of partners, as anyone could be guilty of having poor quality sex based on poor perception.

        To play devil’s advocate, have you ever encountered a man who expected you to react a certain way to his touch based on his history of many women? Have you ever become frustrated by a man who grew accustomed to being treated a certain way in bed because of his standards based on experience?

  14. Another article that trots out the old statistics about the average number of partners for men and women … and fails to point out that they are impossible. If the average number of partners for heterosexual men is 7, then the average for heterosexual women must also be 7.

    Simple maths. To find out the average number of partners for men, you take the total number partners for all men (M), then divide it by the number of men (n1). Same for the women (W, n2). The total partners for each sex MUST be the same for both sexes (since an act of heterosexual sex involves one man and one woman, so each point for the home team is a point for the away team too). So M = W.

    Now, the number of men in the world is pretty much exactly the same as the number of women in the world, so n1 = n2. Thus M/n1 = W/n2: men and women, on average, have exactly the same number of sexual partners.

    For some good theories as to *why* these figures are always skewed, see http://www.pnas.org/content/97/22/12385.full (or my blog, in an upcoming entry).

    • No Andy you are wrong! You math does not take into account VERY promiscuous women that wrack up huge numbers of partners. I can think of more than a few ex party girls that would let multiple different men mount them every weekend.

      • “I can think of more than a few ex party girls that would let multiple different men mount them every weekend.”

        Who’s to say that the men didn’t let the women mount *them* every weekend? Women can mount too, you know.

      • Sigh. It doesn’t matter what numbers you put in, the numbers will be the same. Try it a million times with varying values. Heck, pretend there are only 10 men and 10 women in the world.

        Yes, there are some promiscuous people of both sexes out there. I’m not judging anyone, just pointing out that the information we currently have is distorted, and no one ever seems to recognise the fact.

        • So Andy I will use your example fo ten men and ten women.

          Bob, Joe, Sam, Tom, Fred, Tyrone, Jose, Mark, Leroy, Todd

          Karen has sex with all of them she just bumped all of the guys numbers up and hers is way above average. Assume the rest of the women have sex with 1-3 guys. If you average the numbers sure Karen’s number gets smaller and the other womens number gets larger but that is not reality.

  15. Maybe because I’ve lived in liberal places and am in my 20s, but the vast majority of men I know well do not care about sexual past. Some do, but they’re in the minority. Most don’t care if you’ve had 30 partners, as long as you don’t have a 31st while you’re with him. That seems to be the standard. Some are actually down with some level of a poly relationship. When I was in my teens and early 20s, many guys were insecure and shamed women a lot, but nowadays, most are quite secure in their sexuality and able to communicate their needs and concerns. Again, I run with very liberal crowds. These men don’t need to hide the fact that they watch p0rn and they understand that most women have a sexual past. Even if you’re a virgin, you likely have a sexual past due to internet p0rn nowadays. It’s just a given. It’s more likely to be a problem if you’re inexperienced with a real life woman, but it’s still understandable.

    • “It’s more likely to be a problem if you’re inexperienced with a real life woman, but it’s still understandable”- Aya

      So Aya if a man has a problem with your value system and past deeds you have decided he can’t handle a real woman? I suppose you would be inclined to say he can’t handle the truth or he is insecure? Male shaming tactics that let a woman feel good about her choices. Most men with half a brain see through this right away. Do you have any other tactic that does not involve male shaming?

      • I’m not one of those women who has any problem with virgins or inexperienced men. I don’t judge them and I know how to communicate my sexual desires and listen to theirs. I just have noticed a problem with men who don’t have experience because they have watched far too much p0rn and try to make sex a performance or get really nervous. I would never, ever shame any guy for this. I can be patient and understanding. As long as he’s willing to work with me. Everyone’s journey is different.

  16. Women complain about how unfair it is that men are called studs when they sleep around, yet women get called sluts for the exact same behavior. It’s actually not a double standard though, because both scenarios are pretty different in terms of circumstances and consequences. I can think of at least four crucial differences:

    First, sleeping around is easier for women. Regardless of how you feel about promiscuity, we can all agree that a guy who manages to rack up a lot of sexual partners has to have some skills. It’s challenging for men to rack up partners, even for men with low standards. A man needs social intelligence, interpersonal skills, persistence, thick skin, and plain old dumb luck. For women, though, a vagina and a pulse is often enough. Whenever an accomplishment requires absolutely no challenge, no one respects it. It’s just viewed as a lack of self-discipline. People respect those who accomplish challenging feats, while they consider those who overindulge in easily obtained feats as weak, untrustworthy or flawed.

    Second, women have potential to do more harm by sleeping around than men do. Say a man sleeps around with a bunch of different women. He’s definitely doing harm to these women if he pretends to be monogamous while sleeping around. He may cause them emotional pain by his promiscuity. He may cause unwanted pregnancy. He may spread VD. When women sleep around, however, they can cause not only all these same ill effects but one additional crucial ill effect: the risk of unknown parentage.

    If one guy sleeps around with five women, each of whom is monogamous to him, and they all get pregnant, it’s a safe bet as to who the father is. If you reverse genders and have one woman who sleeps around with five men who are monogamous to her, and she gets pregnant, the father could be any of the five men. And if one of those men is tricked into raising a baby that isn’t his, he’s investing time, money, estate and property to provide for a child that isn’t carrying his DNA into the next generations, a costly mistake from an evolutionary standpoint.

    Our two basic primal drives are to survive and to reproduce, and promiscuous women traditionally make it hard for a man to know for sure whether he is truly reproducing or is secretly raising another man’s child. Men stand a lot more to lose from promiscuous women than the other way around. And it’s no picnic for the child to not know who his real father is either. And it’s a mess for the women carrying on the deception as well. Or just look at any random episode of the Maury show if you don’t believe me.

    Since the DNA test and the birth control pill didn’t exist until recently, there were no reliable ways to prevent pregnancy or prove parentage for most of human history. For this reason society developed a vested interest in preventing promiscuity among women, and society accomplished this by creating the slut stigma. And even though the creation of birth control and DNA tests have made this less of a risk than the past, longstanding traditions and customs are not easy for society to break so the slut stigma remains.

    Third, men have evolutionary reasons to be programmed to sleep around more. A lot of women roll their eyes when they hear that men are “hard-wired” to sleep around. But from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense. If the two primal drives of humans are to survive and to reproduce, nothing leads to maximum reproduction like one man sleeping with multiple women. If one women sleeps with many men in a nine month period, she can only get pregnant just once. Nine months of rampant promiscuity would give the same result as nine months of highly sexed monogamy: one pregnancy. Now if one man sleeps with many women during a nine month period, you can get many pregnancies during that period. The more women he sleeps with, the more possible pregnancies.

    So from an evolutionary standpoint, there are concrete advantages to men being promiscuous compared to women being promiscuous. This doesn’t mean that women have evolved to be strictly monogamous. Women have evolved to be somewhat promiscuous too, something men badly underestimate. However they haven’t evolved to be as rampantly promiscuous as men.
    Fourth, promiscuity poses more risk to women than to men. A woman has more to lose from choosing bad sex partners than a man does. She’s the one who gets stuck with going through a pregnancy and taking care of a baby alone if she chooses a deadbeat. For this reason, promiscuous women throughout history have historically been viewed as being a vastly more irresponsible risk takers than promiscuous men, who rightly or wrongly could always run away from the consequences of unwanted pregnancies easier than women could.

    These four reasons explain why the longstanding tradition came about of men being rewarded for multiple partners while women get socially punished for similar promiscuity. Of course all this is gradually changing, but we’re up against millenia of evolutionary and cultural conditioning here, so don’t expect any dramatic overnight reversals.

    Understand that I’m just explaining why the double standard came into existence and not condoning or condemning it. This is not an attempt to pass judgment or be self-righteous in any way. It’s just an explanation of why the two conditions are treated differently.

    • Well written Sarah!

      I would add one more thin in regards to VD / STD. The woman runs the risk of destroying her reproductive organs and gettng a hysterectomy. I have run into this scenario a couple of times where the woman thought she could hide her wild promiscuous past and lie to some nice conservative guy down the road when she is ready to get married. These women have removed themselves from the gene pool in the name of fun and cheap thrills then they expect me to forgo having children of my own. A steep price to pay for someone elses fun! They think because I am “nice” (their descriptive word not mine) I will adopt children to fullfill their desire to have a family.

      • Sarah didn’t write anything valuable or true, actually.

        Yes, women usually face it for many reasons. And not just for being promiscuous AT ALL.
        That you won’t want a woman only because she doesn’t have a womb, or maybe is infertile, etc. is vile. I hope YOU see one day that you are infertile yourself. Your “genes” aren’t worth shit.

    • “First, sleeping around is easier for women”
      Not women’s fault alone. If men are that easy and women not that much, who cares. Still doesn’t excuse anyone using prejudice against women’s sexual freedom.

      “Second, women have potential to do more harm by sleeping around than men do.”
      Irrelevant. Nature doesn’t care about it. You are talking about sociocultural matters.

      “Our two basic primal drives are to survive and to reproduce, and promiscuous women traditionally make it hard for a man to know for sure whether he is truly reproducing or is secretly raising another man’s child.”
      CUltural matters again. Humans aren’t monogamous.Humans don’t even mate for too long. The male parenthood for humans is irrelevant by nature.

      “promiscuous women traditionally make it hard for a man to know for sure whether he is truly reproducing or is secretly raising another man’s child.”
      Male’s duty is to have sex, mostly. Protect the group when a horde animal. If they aren’t monogamous, they just don’t care for a female’s babies, naturally. And even when monogamous, it’s NOT in the males’ minds whether he is procreating or not (even when animals are monogamous, most females will cheat with younger/stronger males anyways); he will take care of the babies as well, though. Still, no male leaves a female for being infertile. It’s usually the other way around – females have x-ray to see when a male is infertile, so they just disregard them. Males care about the copulation and that is all.

      “For this reason society developed a vested interest in preventing promiscuity among women (…)”
      Society (read: straight men) created that because they started seeing babies as property. Properties of the men, not even of both men and women; that’s how it started. Property that they would sell or kill at will many times. Oh, and that included women, too – properties and slaves, basically. Also “nature”, will you say?

      “Third, men have evolutionary reasons to be programmed to sleep around more (…)”
      Nonsense; that is not exactly how nature works; you aren’t seeing all the points. Males are programmed to be READY for sex more – like, all the time. Most females get in heat for a short period of time. Now that doesn’t NOT mean, in any case, males should or do sleep around more. In fact, in nature most males don’t even get to impregnate any female. Males should be READY – so when a female chooses him, he won’t deny it. Now, in fact, females of most species choose more, even more when it comes to the first male to copulate with at said time, as the first will also most probably be the father; so she has to look for the strongest, fittest, healthiest, most beautiful and young male out there. In most species of mammals, the females will actually follow by copulating with several other males after the first one in a row, though – that makes it more certain she will get pregnant, and won’t waste her fertile time.
      To continue: “The more women he sleeps with, the more possible pregnancies”
      And that is exactly why most males DON’T get to sleep around, not even the alpha ones. Nature wants DNA diversity, and it’s best way to achieve it is by making females more selective, choosing the best ones to copulate and always trade partners, not to mention the usual “orgies” many females will have with multiple males; males always ready, not always succeeding, most males not EVER succeeding.
      So the point is: males are programmed to be promiscuous BY CHANCE. But males actually CAN’T be promiscuous, no even the alpha ones that much or for too long, as it hurts nature. Females have such a higher chance of being promiscuous and they use it much more.

      “She’s the one who gets stuck with going through a pregnancy and taking care of a baby alone if she chooses a deadbeat.”
      Again, culture. Not nature.

      “These four reasons explain why the longstanding tradition came about of men being rewarded for multiple partners while women get socially punished for similar promiscuity.”
      No, that doesn’t explain it at all, much less condone it. If women have such a bad time while being promiscuous, even more earlier in time (I agree, because of society’s constructions) the only logical thing to do would be to actually NOT reward men for multiple partners at all just as much, as “punish” both for promiscuity just as much, as we are talking about how culture evolved here, and not nature (men facing fatherhood, having to financially support both the wife and the kids by himself, etc.). Sex is a choice both make.

  17. “First of all–she “gave” nothing. Sex is something shared. Not something a woman “gives” to a man “-Aya

    Ok Aya we will call it sharing if you like the message is still the same a minor play on words changes nothing.

    “So what if she’s entered a different phase in her life? People do this all the time–with changing careers, buying new homes, going back to school, having children, changing majors, developing a taste for sushi when you found it gross before, finding religion/discovering atheism. It’s nothing malicious “-Aya

    Can you frame your respones to the topic at hand. Your response is weak comparing sex to sushi and buying a house etc… I never said women were malicous for doing this they just do what they want and expect no consequences for their actions.

    ” My boyfriend, who is dearly and utterly in love with me lets me have sex with other men because he’s lower libido at the moment”- Aya

    He must really love you and be afraid of losing you. It probably eats him alive knowing you are being pleasured by other men but he will NEVER tell you that no matter how liberal he says he is or how loudly you proclaim to know his mind.

    • Of course there are consequences to every action. I just don’t get men or women get so hung up on something as natural as sex. I don’t care if my man has had 100 or zero partners. That was his journey and his past. I won’t think that he’s a loser if he’s a virgin and if he shows that he’s ready for commitment, I don’t see why I’d mind that he played around in the past. It’s about us now, not all of those other people. If he’s sexual with me and loves me, his past is simply part of how he got there. I used to get butthurt when I learned about a partner’s sexual past. I always assumed that he would compare me. I couldn’t believe that a guy might have had sex with a certain girl (I freaked out when I learned a partner had an ex in the sex industry), with so many girls, or performed certain acts. Now I realize how foolish I was being. As long as he’s disease free and we’re honest and adventurous while we’re together, what’s the big deal?

      • Mr Supertypo says:

        ‘ Of course there are consequences to every action. I just don’t get men or women get so hung up on something as natural as sex. I don’t care if my man has had 100 or zero partners ‘

        Well said, some people needs to grow up and understand that women as all other human beins HAVE a sexuality, and they are in the full right to use. I dont get either why I should spent time whining over how many partners my woman had before me. WHO F*****G CARES. You can call it whatever you want, but going nuts over this issue, its surely not love.

        • “Well said, some people needs to grow up and understand that women as all other human beins HAVE a sexuality, and they are in the full right to use”- Supertypo

          No one is denying women their sexuality but I reserve the right to pass judgement when it comes time for marriage. As far as growing up you need to learn how to make a point without hurling insults, it shows a lack of maturity on your part and does not make your points any clearer.
          “I dont get either why I should spent time whining over how many partners my woman had before me. WHO F*****G CARES”- Supertypo

          Men usually don’t whine about the subject they just leave the woman and move on. The guys that are upset are the ones that were tricked into marriage or relationships under false pretenses and find themselves vested (children, financial etc…) so disengagement becomes mor painful than staying with her.. Once again learn to make your points without hurling insults and you will sound more mature.

          • Mr Supertypo says:

            ” No one is denying women their sexuality but I reserve the right to pass judgement when it comes time for marriage. As far as growing up you need to learn how to make a point without hurling insults, it shows a lack of maturity on your part and does not make your points any clearer. ”

            Dude dont try to change the subject , my points could not be clearer, women have their own sexuality exactly as us men, and the right to exercise it. What judgement in the name of haven do you want to give? what problem does that cause? I dont get it.

            “Men usually don’t whine about the subject they just leave the woman and move on.”

            Oh Nooohohoho. Here you are wrong, deadly wrong. Must men don’t act like that. Unless there have been infidelity involved. In that case I agree. But most men just would simply not care. Because this is a non issue.

            ” The guys that are upset are the ones that were tricked into marriage or relationships under false pretenses and find themselves vested (children, financial etc…) so disengagement becomes mor painful than staying with her.. Once again learn to make your points without hurling insults and you will sound more mature.”

            What false pretenses are you talking about? do you love your woman? she loves you and she doesn’t fool around? well in name of god whats the problem? juvenile experiences should ruin your future of a family with children, simply because you cannot grasp that she as a girl, had fun? excuse me, she doesn’t have a problem. Shes just fine. YOU have a problem, and in this case, dealing with irrational phobias and insecurity I suggest a psychotherapy. And no that’s not a insult but a genuine advice. Because you are making a mess in your life and in hers over something that has no meaning at all.

            • “Dude dont try to change the subject , my points could not be clearer, women have their own sexuality exactly as us men, and the right to exercise it”-Supertypo

              How did I change the subject? I agreed with your point maybe not to the level you would have liked.

              ” What judgement in the name of haven do you want to give? “- Supertypo

              I was pretty clear I reserve the right not to marry a promiscuous woman. Are you pretending you didn’t understand that statement?

            • “Shes just fine. YOU have a problem, and in this case, dealing with irrational phobias and insecurity I suggest a psychotherapy. And no that’s not a insult but a genuine advice”- Supertypo

              Wow Supertypo anyone that disgrees with your value system has phobias and is insecure? You are bordering on obnoxious! Make logical points and stop hurling insults. I doubt you will be able to it creeps into every post you make.

              • disagrees

              • Mr Supertypo says:

                “Wow Supertypo anyone that disgrees with your value system has phobias and is insecure? You are bordering on obnoxious! Make logical points and stop hurling insults. I doubt you will be able to it creeps into every post you make.”

                Ok let me try to explain the concept better.

                I am in a party, with lots of people. now there one Inuit guy. And im scared of him. Who has the problem? me or him?

                The guy is having fun, drinking, chatting, laughing, dancing. But I am hiding in a corner, trembling with fear. Suddenly the Inuit guy looks at me, and I scream in panic. The Inuit guy, confused by my scream says….whats your problem man?

                He doesent have a problem, I have, Im the scared one. He isn’t going to kill me. He didn’t even notice me. I am not a problem for him, but he is for me. Why? because I have the PROBLEM.

                Hope you understand the anology 🙂

                • Ok Supertypo I’ll bite…

                  “I am in a party, with lots of people. now there one Inuit guy. And im scared of him. Who has the problem? me or him?”- Supertypo

                  You are implying all men that don’t like promiscuous women are afraid of them and thats the guys problem. Fear has nothing to do with it, its about values so you already lost me on that point.

                  ” The guy is having fun, drinking, chatting, laughing, dancing. But I am hiding in a corner, trembling with fear. Suddenly the Inuit guy looks at me, and I scream in panic. The Inuit guy, confused by my scream says….whats your problem man?”-Supertypo

                  More talk of fear, screaming and panic. All men that reject promiscuous women experience these emotions and states of mind. I reject that out of hand!

                  ” He doesent have a problem, I have, Im the scared one. He isn’t going to kill me. He didn’t even notice me. I am not a problem for him, but he is for me. Why? because I have the PROBLEM”-Supertypo

                  More talk of fear. Once again its about values I am not afraid of promiscuous women.

                  I would be willing to hear another analogy or let you try to explain this one if I am wrong.

                  • Mr Supertypo says:

                    “You are implying all men that don’t like promiscuous women are afraid of them and thats the guys problem. Fear has nothing to do with it, its about values so you already lost me on that point”

                    All the explanation I heard so far leads to fear and insecurity. You dislike people who changes values? why? why is that a problem?

                    • “All the explanation I heard so far leads to fear and insecurity. You dislike people who changes values?”

                      I take back my assessment of your intelligence all you see is fear and insecurity when I talk about values. Your reading comphrehension is nonexistant and I am done you can have the final word its going to be more of your insulting gibberish I am sure…

                  • Mr Supertypo says:

                    “I take back my assessment of your intelligence all you see is fear and insecurity when I talk about values. Your reading comphrehension is nonexistant and I am done you can have the final word its going to be more of your insulting gibberish I am sure…”

                    ok you have a point, maybe its not fear, but honor. You know, you feel humiliated because the woman is not that pure angel you wish she were. She has been damaged, and do you know why? because she has encountered captain penis before. Right? 😉

                    If not, dont wander around the subject, and tell straight out what your values are, otherwise I stand in my case.

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      @Scott, He must really love you and be afraid of losing you. It probably eats him alive knowing you are being pleasured by other men but he will NEVER tell you that no matter how liberal he says he is or how loudly you proclaim to know his mind.”

      Scott, did you know for some people this is a major turn on?

      • “Scott, did you know for some people this is a major turn on?”-Mr Supertyo

        Yes I do and to each their own.

        I wonder if Aya’s boyfriend was monogamous with her before he started to have problems?

        • Yes, he was monogamous. By his choice, not mine. And some women also get turned on by seeing their men with other women.

          • So Aya he values monogamy and an exclusive relationship with you I tend to doubt he is okay with you having sex with other men. He really does love you and is afraid of losing you.

  18. The issue for me when a woman has a high number is why does she want to be with me? If she got used to having lots of men some of them probably better than I am why give up the lifestyle? When I ask these questions the usual responses center around settling down, security, family and love… My next response is, why me why now? About this time the woman is starting to squirm and will try to flatter me but I am immune ot flattery. I want the question answered and what it usually boils down to is this line, ” you have fun with the bad boys you marry the nice guys”. At this point I have lost interest and will never take any of her talk of love seriously ever again. The only reason she is with me is because its convient for her as she enters a different phase in her life. She has shed her promiscous ways and would like to remake herself into a monogamous lady full of virtue. She will demand I believe this farce and play the role of prince charming to get what she gave to other men freely and on a whim.

    • First of all–she “gave” nothing. Sex is something shared. Not something a woman “gives” to a man. Second of all. What? You can’t have fun with BOTH nice and bad boys? Are you saying nice guys can’t be fun? And why you, why now? Maybe she’s fallen in love with you. Gasp! Are people really this cynical about love? So what if she’s entered a different phase in her life? People do this all the time–with changing careers, buying new homes, going back to school, having children, changing majors, developing a taste for sushi when you found it gross before, finding religion/discovering atheism. It’s nothing malicious. Most of the guys I know are so over the mindset you have, but then again, I live in a liberal town. My boyfriend, who is dearly and utterly in love with me lets me have sex with other men because he’s lower libido at the moment. I would let him do the same if the situation were reversed.

  19. Diamonds4me says:

    This is ridiculous!! Being judgemental when someone’s number of sexual partners nears 10?….10??? Are you joking? I’m a young woman and have had my share of relationships brief and longer and I passed 10 a while ago! A long while ago. I am a nice girl who doesn’t participate In promiscuous/one night stand kinds of situations, and yet my number grows. Compared with others my age my number is low (the average I’ve heard is around 25-30). What on earth have you people been doing with your lives????

    • Eeew you ms are gross.. I would never marry a woman with a number in the 20s.. Why do you’ll complain about this.. It is what it is, either accept it or shut up. I bet you wouldn’t marry a man with a 2 inch penis right. We all have preferences and almost all men want a woman with low numbers.

  20. Prabhjot Willing says:

    To all those men out there who claim it doesn’t matter to them how many partners she had in the past – Why don’t you guys marry sluts and whores ? there are so many of them.Atleast you would be doing one good thing by giving them a meaningful life other than whoring around.And for those dumb guys who believe that being virgin is ridiculous ,I think you seriously need to do a mental health check.I would rather salute a woman for being chaste who has kept herself virgin for that special man in her life(except for the unfortunate ones who got assh**es as their men).Even Jesus chose to be born out of a virgin.What matters is not that she’s a virgin, but her true willingness to explore and enjoy sex with her man while she learns when they grow in their sexual lives together.So it’s her attitude and not her past experience that matters.

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      @Prabhjot Willing, dude to each its own, dont be an ass cuz they always get the kick in the end.
      And there are no such as sluts or whores. WTF is that? a adult person is responsible ALONE of its sexuality, if she need sex from lots of men, more power to her. You dont want to marry her, well then dont.
      But its not cool trying to ruin the party to the people who are having fun, just because you dont like the music.
      I like a woman who has been around and know stuff, you dont like this kind of woman. Im cool with that, people have different tastes. Thats life.

      • “You dont want to marry her, well then dont”.-Supertypo

        If women would be honest and forth coming with their value system and past then we could make informed decisions.Guys that care don’t get upset about honest women, we refuse to see them as marriage prospects and we move on. Its the women that lie and think the lies can be maintained forever that bother us.

        “But its not cool trying to ruin the party to the people who are having fun, just because you dont like the music.”-Supertypo

        No one is attempting to ruin your fun or ram their value system down your throat. The issue is women AND men that lead dual lives or change their value system at the drop of a hat. Please revel in what you are….

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          “If women would be honest and forth coming with their value system and past then we could make informed decisions.Guys that care don’t get upset about honest women, we refuse to see them as marriage prospects and we move on. Its the women that lie and think the lies can be maintained forever that bother us.”

          Why refuse them as marriage prospects? the past is past, its the present and the future that count. So why? a woman who fooled around in her youth its just as good as the holy virgin. What it is important beside the mutual feelings is that she (and you) are responsible adult who dont go and have “fun” with other people in hte hidden. The rest is totally nonsense. And there are plenty of guys who dont care at all of the woman past. Because is plain and simple irrilevant.

          “No one is attempting to ruin your fun or ram their value system down your throat. The issue is women AND men that lead dual lives or change their value system at the drop of a hat. Please revel in what you are….”

          The issue is somebody spent to much time worrying over other people past rather than focus on the present. Let the past be, its now that is important.

          • “Why refuse them as marriage prospects? “- Supertypo

            I disagree with their value system and I detest women that claim to have changed. To each their own Supertypo keep your values I will keep mine.

            “And there are plenty of guys who dont care at all of the woman past. Because is plain and simple irrilevant”-Supertypo.

            There are plenty that do care and i will dismiss your attempt to claim you speak for the majority.I

            ” The issue is somebody spent to much time worrying over other people past rather than focus on the present. Let the past be, its now that is important.”- Supertypo

            I tend to doubt people that turn their value systems on and off at will.

            • Mr Supertypo says:

              “disagree with their value system and I detest women that claim to have changed. To each their own Supertypo keep your values I will keep mine.”

              Now I tell you one thing. The only kind of people who never changes their mind, are the one who doesn’t have one. People change all the time. look at yourself, can you honestly say you are the same person NOW as you were when you had 18 years? And whats about all the “keep your values I will keep mine”? Thats not a answer, I asked you a question, why are you evading? the question is WHY refuse them as marriage potential? why?

              “There are plenty that do care and i will dismiss your attempt to claim you speak for the majority.”

              The old guard are losing members and fast. And im cool with that. Its not fair judging people on their past. All humans deserve a fair chance.

              “I tend to doubt people that turn their value systems on and off at will”

              at will? hey if she ready to settle, that means that phase of her life is over. Belive it or not, people grow up soon or later. Like they stop watching cartoons, or play with LEGO, or going to a rave ect. One day that doesn’t interest you anymore, and you have other priorities in your mind. Thats it. People change all the time, so do I, so you, so do her.
              And honestly I find kinda weird that somebody will go amok on a woman (or a man) past, its not like she robbed banks or killed people. For god sake, she just had fun. Do you also dislike people if they had a drink once in their life?

              • “And whats about all the “keep your values I will keep mine”? Thats not a answer, I asked you a question, why are you evading?”- Supertypo

                Nice of you to cherry pick my response then spin it into evading. I answered the question so you are willfully ignoring what I said or your reading comprehension is lacking. You seem intelligent so I will chalk up to spin and cherry picking.

                “the question is WHY refuse them as marriage potential? why?”-Supertypo

                Last time Supertypo, I doubt people that turn their value systems on and off at will are sincere.

                “.And honestly I find kinda weird that somebody will go amok on a woman”- supertypo

                I never said anything about going amok on a woman your attempt to paint anyone that disagrees with your view point as out of control is over the top.You really need to choose your descriptive words better.

                “Do you also dislike people if they had a drink once in their life?”-Supertypo

                What? You can do better than that Supertypo that was lame and diverting from the topic. So was the rest of your discourse about cartoons and legos.

                • Mr Supertypo says:

                  ” Last time Supertypo, I doubt people that turn their value systems on and off at will are sincere.”

                  see was that so hard to answer? what are your definition for values? because I feel we are going in circles.

                  “I never said anything about going amok on a woman your attempt to paint anyone that disagrees with your view point as out of control is over the top.You really need to choose your descriptive words better.”

                  No you didnt say anything about going amok, thats true, but your obsession are. The way you simply distrust other people simply because they had a happy past it doesent seem healthy from my perspective. And im not trying to antagonize you. Just trying to understand, and off course we disagree.

                  ” What? You can do better than that Supertypo that was lame and diverting from the topic. So was the rest of your discourse about cartoons and legos. ”

                  But it is a fact, people change all the time, and so do their values. Nothing is written in stone. And the LEGO analogy is quite fitting, because it shows how the life changes, and evolve, and so do their behavior. This is for you, me and everybody. See kids play with LEGO, then they grow up and changes interest. Same thing happen for guys and gals, they have a phase where they go “crazy” on each other, some more than others, but its a phase. It pass, for some people, sooner, for others it takes longer. But as a rule when they are ready to settle, that phase in their life its over. And it aint coming back.

                  But anyways, why so defensive Scott? lets cut the c**p shall we? if you feel I am so offensive against you, let call it a draw and stop it here. We agree to disagree. ok?

                  • “see was that so hard to answer?”- Supertypos

                    Good lord supertypos I have said it repeatedly.Now you are pretending I never answered the question or was evading it. I am not impressed with your debating tactic.

                    “But anyways, why so defensive Scott? lets cut the c**p shall we?”-Supertypo

                    Defensive funny I was thinking the same thing about you. Your debating skillsl are lacking and consist largely of insults. In the absence of making a logical point launch an offensive, cherry pick comments and take them out of context.I will however accept that we disagree but I would like you to explain your analogy posted below.

                    • Mr Supertypo says:

                      “Defensive funny I was thinking the same thing about you. Your debating skillsl are lacking and consist largely of insults. In the absence of making a logical point launch an offensive, cherry pick comments and take them out of context.I will however accept that we disagree but I would like you to explain your analogy posted below.”

                      Yeah sure, meanwhile, you have failed to give some good reason, beside a vague explanation based on some vague values…or something.
                      My debating skills are largely based on insults? dude you are the one who offend other people with your prejudges, also a kinda obsolete view based on some weird values that only you knows. And for some strange reason, you refuse to explain them, trying to divert the question on a rant on how much people insult you and that cherry pick thingy you mention or whatever.

                      And beside that you have a obsession with insults. Whats the matter do people insult you all the time? relax not everybody is out to get your back. Cheer up.

                      Anyways, what are your definition of values, and no this is not a attempt to evade, this is a genuine question. And no this time, dont divert it. EXPLAIN. Thank you.

                    • “relax not everybody is out to get your back. Cheer up”.

                      Now anyone that disagrees with you is paranoid you are and obnoxious little child supertypo and need to learn some manners. Your arrogance is just over the top! An once again nothing but diversion avoidance and more insults and pretending I didn’t answer questions coping skills of a child.

                    • Mr Supertypo says:

                      ” Now anyone that disagrees with you is paranoid you are and obnoxious little child supertypo and need to learn some manners. Your arrogance is just over the top! An once again nothing but diversion avoidance and more insults and pretending I didn’t answer questions coping skills of a child.”

                      Yeah maybe all what you say, but at least I dont judge people on the vague values, that you mention AND are not even able to explain. Anyhow, I spent some thinking on this subject, and the only way I can agree with you is…..if she was promiscuous uintil last month. Then suddently changed and wants to marry. YES on that point I agree on you, and on that point ONLY. Because if was promiscuous when she was a girl I cant see what it has to do with today. Then call me arrogant or dumb or whatever you want. But you have no point. Just words in the wind.

                      So how about your values? aren’t they a little bit akin to honor?

  21. To be honest, yes. There is a number at which no matter how amazing a woman is I will not even talk to a woman who has reached or passed it. I think it is totally reasonable, even in this day and age, and no it’s not sexist at all because I am below this number as well and intend to stay there.

    Who wants to be with a woman that has screwed every other guy in town? There’s no intimacy there, and you can’t pretend that there is. No way I’d ever consider a woman like that, since she’s so “sexually liberated” go have fun with the swingers, but don’t expect those of us who aren’t man-whores to want anything to do with you.

    The number is 8, and that is way too generous.

    • The Blurpo says:

      “Who wants to be with a woman that has screwed every other guy in town?”

      I would, I like women who has tryed stuff, who has been around, who knows what to do in bed. Also have something to talk about. One more like me, rather than a virgin, who has never seen a penis before : honey do u have a gun in bed? no, thats not a gun, thats a cannon….muahahahaha!
      Nah does not work for me, who ever she was with before I came around, belongs to the history books (metaphorically speaking) and the same is true for me.
      About the intimacy, well thats something we create, together, indifferently what happen before. You create your future. You can also find the woman of your dreams, and discover shes not so amazing after all, same true for me.

      Conclusion, better sexually liberated than sexually oppressed. And im no man-whore (wtf is that for a word, do u mean a Gigolo? well call them by their name, dont invent weird words).

      • You choose says:

        What is wrong with you. I have tons of friends and none of them think like you. You must be one of those guys who doesn’t get much and always agrees with females. Not to many guys like you bro,you can keep the whores cuz no one wants them

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          “What is wrong with you. I have tons of friends and none of them think like you. You must be one of those guys who doesn’t get much and always agrees with females. Not to many guys like you bro,you can keep the whores cuz no one wants them”

          dude whatever makes u happy. And the way you talk about women, speaks more on who you are.

  22. Biology, pfft. Try hypocrisy and insecurity. Guys who care about this are just pathetic – and probably as crap in bed as they suspect they are. All I know is, if I heard a guy call a woman a “slut” or “whore”, HE was off MY list – and it was his loss. I’ve been married for 10+ years now, and have never cheated – I got all that casual sex out of my system when I was single. Most of the women I know who got married to their “first” (usually because she got knocked up) HAVE cheated. I ask my man if he cares about the number, and he says as far as he’s concerned he’s reaping all the benefits of my previous experience. (Periods = BJ week, btw.) Have fun with your lousy – or non-existent – sex, vanilla boys! And thanks to the author of this for being a real man, not a neurotic child.

    • The Blurpo says:

      I think you have a point with that insecurity, but I also think its the way how some guys have been raised, in some places (including where I come from) they encorage you, to find a virgin girl so you can mold them after your liking, You maybe get surpriced that thise advices are more prevalent from female family members, like mothers, aunts, granparents.

      And I agree with your man, I also enjoy reaping the benefits of her past experiences 😀

    • Well, Dana, you can’t project yourself like how everyone woman is no more than Chris can project how every guy is. I tried dating a ‘virgin’ and she was so neurotic about sex and std’s that I didn’t even want it with her (that’s just trust issues on her part, I only been with one wife for 6 monogamous years and that was a couple years ago, NO, I’m not going to get an STD panel just to get in a virgin’s pants which would be a waste of time and money when I know I’m clean. I thought that was so silly when she asked that from me, and it gave me a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach.) I don’t necessarily want a ‘slut’ either b/c a lot of times that comes the other way in their personalities (which you do see) b/c of deeper psychological issues of self-hatred i.e. like that’s all they’re good for. So like with anything it’s a balance game of self-control, but yet a wise ‘risks’ in order to live life.

    • Insecurity has nothing to do with it. Im 32 and been with a few women (almost ten) and couldve had hundreds. Sex forms bonds and especially for women. You can say all you want casual this casual that, but in how many of those casual encounters led to you beong hurt? Fact is, most women as well as men I know do or have slept around due to their insecurities. And No, having more partners in no way makes you as a woman any better in bed than with the next guy, ive been with a few dumpstas in my time and they were awful. My best sex was with the very few women I loved and mande love to, and those relationships carry scars. I dont judge, but as I told girlfriends of mine, dont disrespect your body let a man earn your heart and your trust before ever forming that bond. And when they dont listen they come back crying why didnt he call etc etc. your number DOES matter. And for any guy to say he wants a women who doesnt value sex and would prefer a women whos been around to know what they like must be absolute saps in the sack. If I value it, id expect my woman too. Its a sign of strenght in a woman as well as a man. Jumping from bed to bed will never fill the void left from someone else. And most likely youll hate yourself later. And god forbid a good man loves you and protects you makes love to you something special realize youve in the past toss yourself around to doods who dont respect you….he wont respect you. But yes we are all forgiven but nvm what your man thinks of you you need to respect yourself. Guys are dicks and will smash it and run their mouths about what a dumpsta you are and NO woman wants that pfffft complete bs

    • I have a great deal of respect for Dana she is honest and her belligerence would let me know where I stand right away. Her insults I will ignore.

  23. Hate to break it to you girls, but the number does matter for a man. And it’s all to do with atavistic male psychology – trouble is, this is not comfortable stuff in this PC- non-judgmental age in which we are meant to be living. but it is basic and probably biological/evolutionary in nature…A man will in most cases always be happier with a woman who has not been around so much. And no, I don’t think that men should put it about either. This kind of stuff can blow a relationship out the water.

    • The Blurpo says:

      Maybe for you Chris, but I actually prefer a woman who has experience, someone who knows how to do stuff. My biggest turn off, a virgin. One who has been around is much more funnier to deal with. Both for short time, and long time relationship. Personally I couldn settle with a girl who has been in celibacy for all her life till I came around. But thats me.

  24. To be frank, it’s simply unfair that a woman should be able to live a lifetime of sexual misconduct and still expect to end up in a monogamous relationship with a “nice guy”. The sad reality is that most cliche nice guys are simply too nice to “slut-shame” these reforming women, and end up with them anyhow. But! It should at least be with the transparency of her past behavior. There is more to a woman’s sexual history than just the question of “am I as good as the last thirty guys”. Her past behavior is indicative of her ability to commit, her moral judgement, and of course her health (STDs and the such).

    • My best friend and I were playful “man whores” in south beach for about 10 years. We have discussed the double standard in long conversations and have justified as so: At my prime in my mid and late 20s when woman took pictures of me simply walking around the beach I still had to give it MUCH effort to have sex. Almost any average girl can walk out the door and find some man to have sex with in 10 minutes or less. This is such a challenge for us men, making it a big deal. When we learn that a girl simply said yes over and over again we find it a major turn off. Currently I am with a girl who was extremely loose at a very young age and I have struggled accepting it. I love her but I hate that fact that sex meant NOTHING to her and I’m always questioning what our sex must mean….

      • Captain Obvious says:

        You sound very insecure Thomas. By the way — that’s your problem, not your girlfriend’s.

        • No its her problem!

          • Mr Supertypo says:

            ” No its her problem! ”

            No she doesn’t have a problem at all, he is making the case, so its his problem. if he didn’t care, this would not have been a issue at all. Since he cares, that means has the problem. So the problem is again his.

            • Yes its her problem her values are at odds with his so your point is not relevant.

              • Mr Supertypo says:

                “Yes its her problem her values are at odds with his so your point is not relevant.”

                NO. He has the problem, that’s the reason he was complaining. She isn’t complaining, he is. THEREFORE without doubt he is the troubled one (the person with the problem).

                • We disagree and you failed to make your point.

                  • Mr Supertypo says:

                    ” We disagree and you failed to make your point”

                    Its not a matter of opinions, but of fact. He has the problem on her. Ergo its his problem. If you disagree, please speak your mind.

                    • I have spoken my mind you just keep repeating your mantra. I will not comment anymore on this particular line its a waste of time. You have utterly failed to make your point.

                  • Mr Supertypo says:

                    “I have spoken my mind you just keep repeating your mantra. I will not comment anymore on this particular line its a waste of time. You have utterly failed to make your point.”

                    Take a run then, my point is clear, but if somebody dont want to listen, its not my fault.

      • Mr Supertypo says:

        ” Currently I am with a girl who was extremely loose at a very young age and I have struggled accepting it. I love her but I hate that fact that sex meant NOTHING to her and I’m always questioning what our sex must mean”

        Now you are exaggerating. Off course sex means something, what do you think? And the matter she had a happy youth is totally irrelevant. My gf had also a fancy past. And we go along together just fine. Here is a tip, if she had lot of fun in the past, the chances that she go to the infidelity camp is much lower, than somebody who remained virgin till they hit 30. And about the sex, with all the experience she had in the past, it means you are over the top. Otherwise she would have gone with the wind, long time ago. My advice, relax and enjoy it. Dont make problems were there are none.

  25. If you were unmarried, I would hunt you down and woo you like there was no tomorrow! Very wise words and it definitely changes my perspective of men. I have agonized so much over my own “number” after being criticised by my most recent “mistake” that i have sworn to become celibate, just to figure out whether i am a whore or not. And no, my number isn’t even that high. Silly of me to even worry about it really, were I to use my head then I would have to conclude that I am in fact, still quite innocent. For all you men out there that disagree: you have no idea how much pain you can put someone through by obsessing about their number as some kind of proof of purity. Women are men too, actually. We are all human, we all have feelings and we all make mistakes. And honestly, without the experiences I have had (mostly bitter ones) I would not be the woman I am today. And to be in a relationship shouldn’t hurt. It should add something (good) to your life. So in stead of judging, how about getting to know the girl and then deciding whether this person is someone you can love. And really, let it go. Our number is indeed not what defines us, our choices do. And by that I don’t mean that any woman out there who has made, perhaps many mistakes, is somehow to be defined as a “ho” but rather that she might very well learned valuable lessons that someone with less experiece has not. It is not our mistakes that define us, but how we handle them.

    • I kinda want this to make it a general topic but it’s okay, lol.

      When we place one’s values on sexual encounters (the numbers) as a motive for one’s self-worthiness in society, it’s very retarded.

    • how am i supposed to know a girl if she refuses to tell a number? and there is a name for people who commit “many” mistakes, many same or similar mistakes – we call them fools. nice girls are gems, damaged ones are trouble.

      • And this is what our puritanical society pushes on us. That you can’t be ‘nice’ while also having more sexual partners–whether or not they were mistakes. You can give up all your spare time to help people in need, but if you’ve had too many sexual partners, you’re not nice. Ridiculous.

        • Once again Aya you avoid the topic at hand. It seems to me you cannot defend promiscuity so you have to change the subject. Here is the logic of your argument…

          I had sex with lots of men.

          I did some good deeds.

          My good deeds negate my promiscuous behavior and if you have a problem with that you are ridiculous.

      • “how am i supposed to know a girl if she refuses to tell a number?”- Aya

        Never ask a woman for her number she will gradually volunteer information through her stories. Never indicate you have a problem either and she will feel more relaxed and share information. If you don’t want to wait that long strike up a conversation about sex and let it slip how you feel about promiscuous women. Pay close attention to her responses, body language and emotions. I have found women that have nothing to hide will not even flinch. Women that are ashamed of their past will squirm or end the date on the spot. A real good indicator of a sordid past is the number of men that seem to know her well. Look at the way men react to her in public, are they too friendly or do they stand way to close to her? The ones that are near impossible to detect are the Spring Break / Vegas / College sluts. They realize they are never going to see any of these people ever again so no one will be able to tell their future husband about her deeds.

  26. Does it matter says:

    I travel the world and I blow away these stats I’m MVP in my circle of friends I’m not going to even say my numbers but it’s triple digits and the good part is I’m still young male. So when I hear guys brag about have 10 20 or even 30 sexual partners I laugh. Because I trump that by a long shot. Charlie sheen is my hero … winning!

  27. It has been interesting reading everyone’s varied opinion. For me, I have been married almost 35 years and have only had sex with my husband. The vast majority of my female family members and friends have done the same. That was pretty typical of women in my generation in the U.S. However, even though most of us taught our children to be fairly conservative sexually, the succeeding generations have become a bit more relaxed than ours. Ultimately, I feel that it is up to the individual and couple-in my opinion, both sides need to be honest about what they want from each other long before they decide to be sexual with one another. I (and my grown children) liked the fact that we did not have to worry about getting pregnant at a young age, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. because we did not partake. However, I don’t feel that it makes me (or my grown children who are married now with children) better human beings, just people who did not have to expend energy worrying about things that other people (ones who are sexually active) have to worry about. However, I volunteer for the YWCA and there are many women who have been victims of sexual assault at such a young age. As a result, many of these women feel devalued and can sometimes become promiscuous because of something that happened to them (not their fault). Should we judge these people or anyone else who decides to become sexually active with a lot of men (or what most people consider a lot?)

    • PMM, although I respect what you have written, it should be made clear that the group of women we’re discussing do not fall into sexual assault victim category. Not all promiscuous women have been sexually taken advantage of. Just look at Jersey Shore or Teen Moms Tv shows…

  28. Oh, ladies. Oral sex in the parking lot of bar, at a party or anywhere else does constitute sex.

  29. One thing that happens is particularly difficult for men. When formerly promiscuous women enter committed relationships they do not approach the sex within the marriage as they did in their 1, 2, 3 nite stands. In other words, the men whose names they didn’t know when they woke up the next day were given better than their husbands. Most men, me included, would overlook the previous promiscuity if we were treated as good, no better, than the nameless past partners. However, its usually not that way. This is nothing more than attempting to cover shame about the past. It is as self-destructive as the previous promiscuity. It ensure the destruction of the very thing they want. A committed, long term relationship.

  30. Wouldn’t sleep with. Sorry

  31. I find the statements to be interesting. The past is the past is a fallacy. We are in many way the sum total of our life experience. So there is an inherent right for promiscuous women to be dishonest about who they truly are. The most difficult thing for anyone is to find out the truth incrementally.So if promiscuous women were honest upfront, men can make an honest decision based on their beliefs and values. And what was the basis of the promiscuity. Were you just having a good time or was it something else. Trying to gain something, trading sex for drugs.. Last time I checked that behavior is called prostitution. Ladies give that some thought before you sell a good man dishonesty.

    • Ladies just to clarify. Many women will sleep with a man they normally would sleep with because he has drugs, coke. They will sell themselves the lie they were just out partying and we just did it. They did it for the coke. That truly is prostitution. You did it so you could get something.

  32. Every now and again, we revisit this idea. And *every single time*, we fail to question the statistics. How can the average number of partners be seven for men and four for women? (Or, according to more recent figures, 11 and 7?) There are equal numbers of men and women in the world, and every time a man takes a new sexual partner, a woman is taking one too. Every point for the home team is a point for the away team. So the average *must be exactly the same*.

    (NB “gay sex” is not the answer – most surveys explicitly specify number of *heterosexual* partners.)

    • Randomizer says:

      I hesitate to reply, but…

      try this thought experiment: there are 5 men and 5
      women on an island. One man sleeps with three of the women. Everyone else is not sexually active. His number is therefore three, and none of the women have a number that exceeds one.

      Gah!

    • You are not taking into account party girls that let multiple men mount them every weekend for years on end, they drive the numbers way up.

  33. Meh, if a girl has been with a lot of guys, and then all the sudden she would make me jump through hoops (or any other ‘nice’ guy) for sex, I would find that rather hurtful or distrustful. It’s like saying since, Sam, Billy, Joe, and w/e played you like a fool now I have to suffer as well. It’s hard to find a girl who was ‘promiscuous’ to not show it through their behavior or something in there personality. And that goes for men too. Men should respect themselves too and not ‘whore -out’ to any girl who says ‘yes’ let alone manipulating naive vulnerable women into something they will regret b/c that’s just almost evil.

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  35. obvious says:

    The answer is obvious. There is a huge difference between 4 and 14. Guy or Girl.
    It says if that person is loose and thus the odds of cheating and or just dumping you are significantly higher. I don’t know the stats but I’d bet a dollar the higher number of people someone has slept with the more likely the relationship is to not last. So its not “just a number” that’d be like telling the court what the difference between shooting 4 and 14 people. Its just a number officer.

  36. it does matter you asshole. it matters more than you will ever know

  37. Yesterday a guy I’ve been seeing for a month and haven’t gone past 1 1/2 base with yet asked me how many people I slept with. For me, it’s 3. I asked him he said “More than 10, less than 20″…..

    I almost walked away. I’m still not sure if I want to be with him. The number does matter to me, because I know he did this between the ages of 15 and 24. That could figure out to 2 a year, but it still makes me cringe. Yes he’s a young man but what’s the rush, and why is he rushing me? How much does he mean it when he says he wants to be in a relationship with me?? These questions DO come to mind for most people when the number is fairly high.

    It goes both ways, people. You can bash men all you want, but when it’s the other way around, you’ll at least consider requesting that your future partner get tested before anything serious happens.

  38. Christina says:

    I know this is more of a “Men’s Only” kind of site and I stummbled upon this article when I Googled “Why are men so obsessed with a woman’s sexual past” and I have to say, from a woman’s point of view…I love this article!! I wish I could get my man to read it.

    We are both 30, have been together for 4 years and we have 1 son together. I have 2 boys from a previous marriage. My boyfriend knows that I think whatever my number is it’s really none of his business because it’s my past and has nothing to do with who I am today. Yet, in a drunken rage one night, he had me pinned (litterally) between the dryer that I was fixing and the wall and DEMANDED to know the number. I kept trying to deflect, because everyone knows you can’t argue with a drunk…but the verbal assault was relentless!!

    I have told him a vague number before but he said he wanted “to see if you’re lying about it, if you can remember what you told me” I was so upset that I was in tears for days afterwards.

    You see, my “sexual past” began at the young age of 5 when I was raped by a very close family member…one of the ONLY male figures in my life (and YES my biological father left us when I was only 3). I was raped again at the age of 12 by an older neighbor, so that was how I learned about sex and how a man should treat a woman…or at least that’s what I grew up thinking. It has taken me many many years to figure out that I am worth more then that. So yes, I have had more then my fair share of partners. (some by my own choice, other times not)

    My boyfirend doesn’t seem to understand that asking me for “The Number” only takes me back to the horrible things I went through as a young child and the choices that I made because I was never told any different. We have been fighting off and on for months now and it’s so depressing…and over what??!! Something that in my opinion has nothing to do with him to begin with.

    Guys…stop asking because you never know what happened in her past or how strongly it can effect her!!

  39. For some guys I don’t think the actual number matters as much as long as its less than theirs

  40. Annoyed says:

    I cant believe this is still going on. I agree with sex being a very intimate act and that its better to have sex with people you love. But unfortunately, we didn’t always think like this. That thought comes with maturity and experience. So before we thought this lovely ideal up, you were probably having sex with people you didn’t love because you wanted to have sex. Hopefully safe sex. My point is, grow up. Shit happened before you met the other person, and shaming him or her isn’t going to get you any where except a trip to the drugstore for some migraine medicine and a one way ticket for a lonely and bitter life. Because no matter how much your partner loves you, he or she will not stay in a relationship where they are being judged and shamed. We all have bad judgement when we are young, no matter how high on your horse you want to be. Learn to understand that the only think that should matter to you is that no matter how many partners your partner has had, they are still the same person he or she was before you found this out. Move on and be happy.

    • Eric M. says:

      Would you feel the same if you discovered that s/he had previously been married 4 times?

      Would it be judging him/her to consider that as a factor?

    • Christina says:

      Annoyed…Thank you for saying this…”Because no matter how much your partner loves you, he or she will not stay in a relationship where they are being judged and shamed.” This is how my boyfriend of 4 years has been treating me and he doesn’t understand how much it hurts me that he would be soooo critical of things that happened long before we ever even met.

      How can ANYONE expect to move forward with someone if they are CONSTANTLY looking at the past!

    • Well said my friend, that’s what it’s about, can’t live in the past or nothing will last.

  41. When it comes to the argument of seeing sex as ‘special’ or not, I don’t understand why people are so quick to see it as black and white. In my experiences, sex in certain situations has been incredibly special, meaningful, and spiritual, while in other situations, it’s been…just sex. And then there was everything in between. I see the same thing in men. An example. A nerdy and idealistic romantic partner of mine in his mid 20s whose number was around 12. I’d known him for a very long time and he was pretty straightforward about everything. I know that in certain situations sex was extremely special, particularly with 2 of his long-term exes and with myself (and even within our situations, the ‘specialness’ varied at times). With the rest, the reasoning ranged from being horny to bored to rebounding to hoping for something special but it not ending to be to just a lustful attraction. Really, though: Just because sex didn’t matter with that guy, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t matter with YOU. And vice versa. It’s really not as simple–‘all sex is important to her/him’ and ‘all sex is not important to her/him!’. It’s easier to look at it that way, but it’s just not always the case. There are way too many other factors involved. Sex is not something women ‘give’ away or withold…our desires matter too. And just like men, we can make good, bad, and neutral decisions when it comes to our sex lives.

    • “Sex is not something women ‘give’ away or withold…”

      That is the biggest lie I have seen on this thread. Women withhold sex all the time from men they deem unworthy of them!

  42. Garrett says:

    I am going to list an example. Someone with a 2.0 GPA because he was screwing around during his first 4 years of college but has since then worked vigorously, when applying to Harvard med. he was rejected. Why? why not live in the present, but care about the history? We all change right? The thing about history is that it allows us to predict the outcome of future events. As statistics shown, most applicants with that GPA are not likely to succeed in medical school. And where there are plenty of applicants to choose from, this applicant is eliminated without question. When applied to relationships, history too, is a good indicator of how serious your partner may be with you in the future. For someone who has 1 or 2 partners it is totally understandable as one is trying to explore. However, for someone with a glorious amount of past relationships it is only reasonable to deduce that the likelihood that this person is not careful/serious at selecting her partners is high.

  43. Wow. I didn’t realize people were still kicking this article around. H3ere’s my thoughts, I don’t particularly care what a woman’s “number” is, but the flipside to that is- if you have more “experience” than I do, (or actually, even if you don’t) don’t expect me to always take the lead. Nothing drives me crazier than a woman who doesn’t think she has to do anything besides just show up. Unless it’s a woman who doesn’t do anything but show up, and then expects me to be able to read her mind and know how she likes it.

    So, in other words ladies, maybe men would stop caring about “being the first” when women stop making it feel like we’re in a job interview

  44. Brainchild says:

    I am playing devil’s advocate here, but here are two questions and a comment I found on another blog that was interesting:

    a) If she is so wonderful, why none of those guys who were before us thought she was valuable enough to keep her?

    b) If she thinks her sex is so valueless that she gives it freely, why should I deem it as valuable and worthy to work for it?

    When you talk about she having “experience”, I ask: experienced in what? To be experienced in sex you don’t need to have a lot of sex partners. A couple of LTRs will give you that experience. In fact, she may be experienced in ****ing and chucking guys, and I don’t find that desirable.

    • Randomizer says:

      As for question #1, what makes you think that if she found a guy she wanted to keep she couldn’t have?

      #2 assumes a sex as transaction model that is just a hot mess.

      Sounds like resentment about being a chuckee.

      R

    • what he said

    • a) is an extremely silly question. It makes the GIANT assumption that she wanted to “keep” every guy that she slept with, which you have no way of knowing. It could be that the relationship just went sour, that she was the one doing the dumping, that none of the guys were a good match for her, that she wasn’t ready for a relationship but still wanted the sex, that she that she took some time out to experiment etc…

      b) If you look at sex as being a ‘value’ thing–as something she ‘gives’ and you ‘buy’ or ‘work for’ instead of something mutual, intimate, enjoyable, and unique between every two people…it looks like you don’t ‘value’ the experience too much.

      • I’m a guy so I cant talk, but I agree and think that a lot of the ‘value’ mentality comes from men who deep down, dont have a lot of confidence in their attraction, so choose to see sex as a transaction where if they logically give something, they receive it in return

        I think this is sad.

        I also think a lot of girls are forced to lie about their number to avoid judgement. Two of my ex partners initialy told me they were on 8. when they realised I was non judgmental, they gave me much more racy admissions. One had experienced lots of threesomes and group sex, and at one time had taken on 7 guys in one session, which would mean her number was much higher. the other girl had a few holidays away when she would sleep with two or three guys in one weekend. In the end its their right, and women shouldnt feel that they ahve to justify their number to guys, or pretend that they can’t enjoy sex for sex’s sake. after all, science has proved that women enjoy sex more than (most unliberated) men. thats my 10c worth. I bet a lot of people dont like it

        I was once an unliberated and judgmental man. Then I watched johnny soporno’s videos. Watch them, they will change your mind about many things.

      • “b) If you look at sex as being a ‘value’ thing–as something she ‘gives’ and you ‘buy’ or ‘work for’ instead of something mutual, intimate, enjoyable, and unique between every two people…it looks like you don’t ‘value’ the experience too much” – Aya

        Sex is given freely and on a whim to some men others have to leap through hoops of fire and earn it. The women that bother me the most are the ones that have been very promiscuous then suddenly have values and expect me to wait an extended period of time so it will be “special”. Its really just a great big mind “BLEEP” on her part so she will be treated like a princess.

        • That’s quite a generalization. How do you know that that’s what women do? Is asking to be respected asking a guy to jump through hoops? And just out of curiosity, would you see a woman who had sex with you quickly as special?

          • Not all women Aya just some. In regards to respect some women have sex on a whim with men they barely know and make others wait and perform for it, respect is hardly an issue at that point. When I find out I have been played like a fool no its not special. Why should I do anything more than another man has to get what has already been givien?

  45. I really think that women should understand that their actions have consequences and that judgments are here to stay. A guy can reject a woman any time he wants to and for any reason. Of course, the opposite applies too. So, everybody has the right to judge his potential partners according to his own standards.

    If promiscuous women find themselves frequently rejected the last thing they should attempt to do is whine on internet webpages and try to convince men that their past shouldn’t matter and that somehow “true love” should overpower any judgment. What they should do, instead, is first determine what type of man they’re interested in, then determine the type of woman that this guy is looking for and, last but not least, determine if they are willing and able to be the woman that their ideal man would want. If they determine that this type of man and themselves are incompatible they should readjust their preferences and try again.

    None of these steps involves sex. Many people are searching for their “soulmates” without sex.

    None of these steps involves changing another person’s beliefs. What other people believe is beyond our control. You’d better get used to it.

    It’s very interesting that I find sluts and tramps very vocal about this issue. Being a virgin guy I’ve also seen the notorious “double standard” for what it is. The only problem is: I don’t really see virgin guys running around, whining about the “double standard” and demanding that non-women should have sex with them. Why is that? I don’t know. What I do know is that this issue affects a number of men and women who have CHOSEN to live their lives in a particular way. Other people should not and will not conform to their beliefs.

    One last thing: a non-promiscuous person rejecting a promiscuous one is NOT a double standard in any shape, way or form. Promiscuous people should complain only if the person who rejects them has not adhered to the standards he sets for others. Anything else is hypocritical.

    • Randomizer says:

      Jim: I hope you are quite young, as it seems you may be. If I were an adult woman (and not a god-botherer), your number would trouble me. I would expect that you either had some kind of hang-up, or that you were a self-righteous prig. Having the benefit of the rest of your post marks you as the latter just as the first screams, “misogynist!!”

      • Is there a point you’re trying to make here? Btw I wonder where one draws the line between a person being aware of what he wants and actively searching for it and being self-righteous.

        • Jim,

          You are absolutely right….to me sex is an important bond between two people who are in love…I believe many people both men and women are promiscuous because it makes them feel better about themselves…I for one do not enjoy sex with a woman unless I am in love with that person care for them and at the same time trust them….I had a girlfriend recently who I have been friends with for years who told me her number of partners and how quickly she was to sleep with a man she thought wanted to be in a relationship with her…the reason this bothered me because I thought we were on different levels morally….we discussed but not to the point where I would badger her…I am not perfect in anyway but I will tell you this…she became so insecure that I was going to leave her that she sabotaged our relationship told me to leave the next day spent the night with her disgusting idiot fat sweat X in a hotel then again on Monday all the while calling me telling me I was done for good because she saw another female message my wall on FB about hanging out….ummmm I think my concerns about her past came up and actually bit me in the azz…funny thing is she wants me back and like a fool I have gone back but walked away again…she was actually cruel while sleeping with two men at once I guess she had her validation from it and on another note her father did abandon her LOL sorry ladies but I am the best lover she has EVER encountered proven by words from her best friends who are my friends as well but when it comes time to marry we surely do not want to take the baggage of x lovers and scars from the person we love to the bed with us….Its not about judging, its about finding someone who shares the same standards and with diseases today its not very healthy…one man one woman is my motto although I can say Ive had only a few very serious relationships in my time and when we would break these women all jumped into bed with someone else then came running back while I stayed celibate because I am secure in my own person and will not sleep with a woman unless I love her in which case is the best sex ever anyway. If you like to get around and have sex freely, I do not want you.

    • Jim,
      The fact that you referred to women with a healthy sex life as “sluts and tramps” makes everything you said invalid.

  46. I think amount of men my partner has slept with is not important as long as she has not carried some disease from them in that case I would need to know so I can act appropriately. The mindset I adopt when it comes to previous partners is this, If your partner is currently with you and not with them doesnt that mean that she chose you over them and hence at this moment you more cherished than the millions of men she might have slept with.

  47. Melly USA
    Thank you Lord Musa! The love spell worked and he returned to me. You are a marvellous, wonderful, stupendous, shocking and extraordinary person with so much talent. You have a gift like no other I have seen. You are an amazing person with a beautiful soul and inner balance that shines on all you meet. You surpass any and all other gifted individuals I have ever met. Your Spell is so accurate it is incredibly unbelievable. Your wonder-working magical know how of the universe and its laws are magnified within a structure so unique it’s impossible to find anywhere. Again, thank you for everything! And thak you so much for the happiness you brought unpon me we are so much in love again. if your ex leave you alone and you find it so difficult to go back you can try this man! templeofbrave@rocketmail.com

  48. Its much easier for a woman to get laid, and thats truth. If a woman has a lot of sex partners, it just means she really likes sex and cant control herself. Would you want your daughter having sex with a lot of guys? So why do it yourself. I will break up with a girl if she has had a lot of partners. Sex should be special, so if you have given it out to 20 men, how can I feel special. Obviously if you have been with a lot of guys,your current lover is going to wonder how he compares, thats natural. A female who has had a lot of partners is going to make a man think that she likes sex a little to much and might end up cheating. Also,no man wants to be the guy standing with the girl in the bar,that 5 other guys in the bar have already slept with. Im not saying a man should be able to sleep with 100 women, but i mean,its a lot harder for us to get laid so thats why its like a competition..

  49. My New G/Friend is really concerned about how she compares to my previous partners. She has not had many partners at all, 3 or 4 I think. Whereas i have had considerably more and she found out (not from me) that they include a Gymnastics coach and a Fitness Model. So I am guessing that this insecurity works equally well both ways. For men its probably a lot about Penis length alone… For the women I have known they have so much more they think us blokes judge!!!! From hairy legs, cellulite, wobbly tummy’s. Breast shape/size, Nipple length, Labia size and “looseness of vagina” (Kegel) …. It can be a really messed up situation for both sexes so you really shouldn’t ask. (in my humble opinion) The safe way is to tell your partner that you do not want to know anything about their previous partners. They are in the past for a reason, lets leave them there…
    x

  50. I simply cannot understand why people think that a man wanting to know about the sexual history of woman with whom he wants to be in serious relation is wrong. After all even in non-romantic and business relations, people and organisation check the credit history and background check for people with whom they would be transacting/or hiring. A second hand car does not deserve the price of brand new car and the car which has been involved in numerous accidents would certainly fetch lower price. It is all about honest and full disclosure, and afterward it can be decided how to proceed.

    • Julie Gillis says:

      Oh Rapses, you make me laugh so hard. Used cars…hahahahahaha!

      • Oh Julie, you can always count on me for making you laugh.

        • Tom,

          The virgin Mary had sex with Joseph afterwards. He didn’t mind that the Holy Spirit got there first!

          • “A woman’s sexual habits are part of her character and nobody can change that.”

            The GMP and their male readers are trying to change that.

            “The problem is illegitimate ways for obtaining sexual satisfaction.”

            Sexual satisfaction is only illegitimate if obtained via sexual violence and abuse. Men and women have sexual desires. If the two willingly and eagerly consent, then who is to say their sexual relationship is illegitimate, committed or not.

            When did being a virgin equal good? When did being a virgin or having few sex partners make someone a good person? Should sex and goodness be related? What about those who get raped?

            Who invented sexual abstinence anyways? People who couldn’t get laid and considered it a good idea for the rest of us to do the same. What party poopers!

            Why was chastity even useful? It served as birth control. Some men became fearful when actual birth control came around. The name explains why. This meant control for women. This meant women could have more sexual freedom. Can someone explain why this is bad? Oh yeah! I forgot. If she doesn’t pick you or if she leaves you. This has nothing to do with self-control, character, STDs, or commitment but as the article clearly claims male insecurity.

            I don’t think one should give in to their every desire. However, when one suppresses all sexual desires they only become stronger and grow like cancer. Some of the people who commit horrendous sexual acts are usually those we thought would never do such a thing. I doubt there will be an end to sexual violence but studies show that countries with more open-minded views toward sex have fewer instances of such acts. Our so-called puritan country is leading in sex trafficking. We condemn Asian countries for selling 7 year old prostitutes but never wonder if it is our American men who buy them. We exploit women’s sexuality in the media but expect our female citizens to be saints. In our unstable economy, the porn industry still seems to be thriving. Let us stop being hypocrites. Cut the crap. Lets talk about sex, lets have sex and lets do it right! Let us educate our son’s and daughter’s on how to have sex with ethics, which doesn’t necessarily involve religion, shame or guilt! I am not just refering to talks on STDs or biology but sexual responsibility and communication.

            • In the Western world, nobody can legally force anybody to have sex or not to have sex. It is up to the individual to decide on their sexual matters. On the other hand, nobody should any right to shame others for deciding to have long term relations with promiscuous people. Virgin does not equal to good but promiscuous is equal to bad. As for male insecurity, it is true that men are very touchy about paternity uncertainty. Men and women can enjoy their new found sexual freedom which would ultimately lead to decay in social values and destruction of the social fiber.

              • edit — On the other hand, nobody should try to shame others for deciding not to have long term relations with promiscuous people.

                • Julie Gillis says:

                  Agreed. No one should shame you for your views and values. Then why do you comment so sarcastically about promiscuous folks? I mean, to each their own yes?

                  • Julie, you have a bad habit of reading my comments out of context. Let me explain it to you. JR is advocating that we should not judge the character of the person with the number of people she had sex. She says that women should have sexual freedom and not be shamed for it. She then goes on to say that sexual abstinence was invented by people who could not get laid and therefore do not want others to have sex. She is supporting sexual freedom and then goes on to shame people who believe in abstinence.

                    It reminds me of a quote by William Shakespeare “When virtue becomes vice and vice becomes virtue.

                    Promiscuity is being defended and abstinence being attacked. I don’t mind being verbally attacked, refuted or tried to be shamed, but I have utter disrespect for hypocrisy. In good olden days, somebody like me would automatically be considered gentleman, but nowadays you have to be tolerant of all vices to be considered a good man.

                    • Rapses,

                      You are completely right about everything I intended except for me attempting to shame people who are abstinent. I was simply playing devil’s advocate and attempting to turn the tables around. I currently have chosen to remain abstinent and have been abstinent for over 7 months, however I support others who do engage in sexual behavior. At times I live vicariously through their sexual adventures. I am choosing abstinence not because I think sex is wrong or a vice. People who make sex a vice, will make anything else a vice too. I like to challenge myself and thought it would be a fun challenge to take on. I also started rock climbing and learned German because its a challenge. It is challenging to say no to sex especially when young and seemingly attractive but it doesn’t make me good, pure or whatever else and it doesn’t make you a gentleman. A gentleman would never refer to a woman as a car, her body as having some type of monetary value nor her beautiful vulva as a lock. There is this notion that people had less sex in the good old days, however this is not true. Sexual deviance dates back since the invention of the wheel. Back in your days good girls were bad girls who didn’t get caught. This quote doesn’t mean I think women are bad for having sex.

                    • JR, It seems that trying to remain abstinent for 7 months had been really a hard work and probably you think that you deserve a medal or at least some recognition for it. Sex is not vice, but sex outside the boundary of marriage is vice. sex is like fire which is good till it remain in the stove or fireplace where it is used for heating or cooking, out of place it can create havoc. You seem to believe that virtuous men and women never existed and they were just as promiscuous as other but never got caught. It is a fact that everything has a value associated with it which cannot be denied and analogy are very effective means of making people understand things.

  51. If you ask my mind – What does bother me about my girl’s sexual past is this .If my gf has not been a virgin it means she gave her love to someone else and when she will have sex with me she will think about that guy during our love making and corrupting our mental bond because sex has a mental and a spiritual connection and not just physical connection.Sex is such an intimate connection as an individual I won’t opt that my girl had any same intimacy with another guy.

    For religious individuals ( although I am spiritual but not religious) – Why did Jesus christ choose to be born out of a virgin marry ? answer is because purity matters !

    • Leroy Joseph says:

      So, Tom, from what you are saying you must be a virgin too? Or at least were when you met your girlfriend? If not, then I think what your wrote is totally hypocritical. Isn’t there a teeny weeny chance that you might think about one of the other women you have slept with while you have sex with your girlfriend? If sex is such an intimate connection, doesn’t that have to work both ways?

      When I met my wife, we were in our 40s, I had been married twice before and she had been married r once. We both had children from our previous marriages. By your standards, we should have just forgotten about having a relationship with each other as we were both as far removed from being virgins as you can get. Funny thing is I love my wife and have a stronger spiritual bond with her than anyone I have ever met. The level of intimacy I share with her is incredible. And part of that intimacy is being so secure in our relationship that we can freely discuss past experiences including sexual ones, with no jealousy.

  52. Mr. Joyboy says:

    If a female isn’t a virgin I won’t even talk to her.

    • lol

    • Sorry I just realized you might have been serious…in which case I wasn’t trying to laugh at you. I just assumed it was a joke.

    • Not even your own mother?

    • My current girlfriend was a virgin when I first met her. That`s really awesome, because that makes me the only guy she ever had sex with.

      • Uberdude,

        I am glad she got to have her first sexual encounter with you. However, how does that make you special in some way? You would probably give the answer below.

        Uberdude: “That’s really awesome, because that makes me the only guy she ever had sex with.”

        This comment would have been great had you said, “my girlfriend was a virgin and I am glad that she chose to have her fist sexual encounter with me. I am happy I took part in that first experience with her. I am glad she felt comfortable enough and connected enough to choose me as her first sexual partner. I am glad for that moment we shared.” This seems to be more about you satisfying your ego. Which goes back to the heart of this post. A man’s number makes him a stud; a man’s number is an ego boost. Sex is a man’s conquest. There is this notion that men convince, persuade or do something extraordinary to get women to sleep with them. However, women choose to have sex unless its rape, which isn’t sex but sexual violence. Why do some men ignore the fact that women not only choose to have sex but actually want and desire sex? Why do some men see a woman’s sex as something they took, something she gave, something that completes him, makes him special? To do that is to ignore a woman’s humanity, her human desires and her voice.

        Several men use evolution to explain why men are sexual creatures. They are hunters and need to hunt. Well I am not prey. Nor will my sex be a trophy on a man’s shelf or my vagina be a plaque on his wall. Does evolution only apply to men? Are women and their sex drives some how exempt from the evolutionary process? Are women not part of nature too? Shall we forever remain angels or she-devils but never human. If you want to use nature as an argument, then all signs in nature indicate that women are sexual beings and are built for sex. We can have sex at any time so long there is lubrication be it natural or store bought. We have multiple orgasms and a variety of orgasms; vaginal, clitoral, G-spot. We can even ejaculate. We don’t stop having sex after an ejaculation or an orgasm. We can continue to have sex. We can even have an orgasm from riding a bike for crying out loud! Men on the other hand can only have sex so long there is an erection, which has to be achieved through some type of visual or physical stimulation. Most men only have one orgasm. After ejaculation men have to wait before having sex again. Nature had to make sex enjoyable for us otherwise we would not be inclined to carry another human being for nine months and make sure that human being survives once born. How is it that some men say their sex drives are natural but a woman’s isn’t? These men only use the nature argument when it is convenient for them, when it can be used as an excuse for behavior that society has allowed. These same men are not concerned as to whether a woman’s gigantic breasts on a size zero waist are natural, whether the bleach blonde with brown roots showing is naturally blonde and so forth. Men are natural born competitors. A man’s own sperm competes with itself. Knowing that women are sexual beings and that there are other men waiting to spread their seed, men had to come up with a way to keep a women’s legs closed. Shame and guilt. Praise a man for his sexuality. Condemn a woman for hers.

        Our society is absurd. We tell little girls they are sexual beings by giving them Barbie dolls with perky breasts, slim waist, curvy hips, and feet that are permanently ready to step in heels. We give them dolls so that they can mimic taking care of a baby. Babies that can only be born one way: BY HAVING SEX! Girls are indirectly told they are sexual then they grow up to be women who are punished for being sexual. These men need to get over their insecurities. My body and my sex don’t belong to you! Even when I choose to have sex with you, you are not taking a piece a me; I am not giving a piece of me. My body and my sex are my own.

        • To make the long matter short, I would like to remind you that promiscuous past in not good for forming a long term relationship. Remember you cannot make housewife out of …….. (you know what)

          • Julie Gillis says:

            No! Do tell! A used car? I would agree. Those things are big and seem like they wouldn’t be able to chop veggies very effectively!

            • I hope you know that saying about master key and crappy lock.

              • Julie Gillis says:

                Yeah, but I hope you know I think that’s BS.

              • Rapses,

                It seems that your underlying concern isn’t about sex but about abandonment. You fear that a woman who is promiscious is going to leave you. The truth is a woman whether virgin or you know what can leave you or cheat on you. This doesn’t matter whether you have the master key or not. Most women who cheat are not soley motivated by sex but by others factors that are missing out of a relationship. You seem to want to keep a woman on lock down rather than giving her the choice to stay with you and actually want to be with you. I would be more worried if she wasn’t experienced enough because curiosity is a strong urge. Even if you convince her your master key is the best, she may get bored and still want to find out on her own. Remember “The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity.” Dorothy Parker

                • JR, Chastity is more about self control on the face of temptation. Everybody likes goodies in life, but only few go to the extent of stealing and robbing to get those goodies. It is a character thing. If supply of a commodity in a market increases, its price fall down. It is basic economic law. If a woman has been with other men without any commitment, then why would a man commit to her to be with her. That would be really unwise

                  • Rapses,

                    Judge her character by who she is not who she slept with. Self control is not just in the bedroom. You measure self control by seeing if a person over eats, over spends, over indulges. You can examine if this person lets their anger get out of control etc. The main problem is that you are implying that women are products and our price will decrease. Where is the Kelly Blue Book for a woman’s sexual past? Is there also one for a man? So a man is deserving of the best value yet a woman can get something run down.

                    Everything in nature operates on balance. Too much or too little is always problematic. Think of priest who practice chastity yet molest little boys. Where is the character there? Sex is not temptation. Sex is not the problem. We as humans need to understand balance and self control is about control of the Self not repression. “Chastity – the most unnatural of all the sexual perversions.” Aldous Huxley

                    • A woman’s sexual habits are part of her character and nobody can change that. Our value in society increases or decreases based on our deeds, no need for denying that. A priest molesting little boys are not chaste by any means. Sex or any other human need is not the problem. Human existence depends on it. The problem is illegitimate ways for obtaining sexual satisfaction.

  53. Are people really that closed-minded? Have any of you even considered that a women’s count may be higher than they wanted it because of sexual abuse at a young age? I know a woman who was not a virgin from the age of 4. Would she have to include the several men (yes, several) who sexually molested her when she was that young? Would she have to include the several boyfriends who pressured her for sex before she was 18 while she was mentally fucked up in the head about sex, because of her sexual abusive past? Would it matter than her number is 10, 15, 20, maybe even 25 before the age of 18? Would it matter that she hasn’t had sex ever since and was looking for a real relationship?

    Yeah, and then men wonder why women are so embarrassed to say their number. I get it, virginity is valued, but it should not be the ultimatum. If you want a real relationship, then don’t have sex so early. A relationship isn’t solely based on sex, unless you make it that way. There is a reason that your parents will tell you to wait to have sex until marriage. You want to make sure that you’re getting along with your partner aside from sex, in all the other areas of life. And guys, if you value a relationship, then stop broadcasting otherwise or “staying silent”. The only reason women feel pressured to have sex and wear revealing clothing, starring in porn, etc… is because you guys are not being vocal about what you look for in a woman. If you watch porn, then the women in your life will feel like they need to be more sexual to get your attention.

    • Leroy Joseph says:

      Very well said. I don’t think my ex getting raped by three uncles at age five should count nor my wife losing her virginity to her step-grandfather at age seven and then being raped again repeatedly by him for five years after should count either. It is men who turn women into sex objects. These abused women grown up believing that in order to make a man happy, they have to have sex with him. They end up re-enacting the abuse over and over.

  54. Leroy Joseph says:

    OK. I will put this one to rest now. I think at 57, you look a things a lot differently than you do when you are 20 or 30. Enough said.

  55. It’s interesting…I’ve never worried about the “number” for any woman I’ve been with. I don’t know of this being a thing people worry about among gay men or lesbians. (Though I could be wrong. Contrary to popular belief I don’t know them all just because I am one. lol.) From what I understand about bi men and women, the fear is usually that they’ll leave you for someone from the opposite sex of what you are, but again not necessarily about the “number.” Although bi men and women are usually stereotyped as being promiscuous anyway.

    The reason I bring all that up is because I wonder why it seems to be an issue unique to heterosexual couples.

    • An argument could probably be made that it grows from traditional views of women as property for male use, and the more sex the property has had, the more “used” it has been by other men. Unfortunately, the idea hangs on as society becomes a bit more progressive, although it seems to have evolved to serve more of a individual ego-based function rather than a societally sanctioned valuing function.

      Hopefully our daughters won’t have to deal with the “numbers game” in the same way that we have.

      • “An argument could probably be made that it grows from traditional views of women as property for male use, and the more sex the property has had, the more “used” it has been by other men.”-JR

        When we marry men and women like to lay claim to each other, we want to be proud of our spouses not disgusted or embarrassed. I will use the following analogy and while I use a car as an example I realize women are not cars but the premise fits so please spare me your feminist rants…

        A woman has Stingray Corvette in mint condition and I would like to buy it, she openly laughs in my face and tells me its not for sale. As the years tick by I see strange men driving this car around town and I spot the car parked in shady locations rocking back and forth. One day the woman comes looking for me and wants to know if I still want to buy her car. She seems upset when I am not as enthusiastic when I see her. I examine the car and I detect rust, scratches, dings, leaking fluid and an interior that looks well worn. I ask her what she wants for the car cringing inside because I already know the answer. She wants the full price I was willing to pay eons ago and on top of that I have to buy the trike and bigwheel she has with her. I decline her offer and she freaks out spouting all kinds of feminist rhetoric…

        • Wow, comparing women (human beings) to inanimate objects–cars. That’s really cruel. I do wish you the best of luck, Scott, I really do–but I’m glad that the men in my life don’t think like you do. It’s not feminist rhetoric to say that a woman’s value isn’t all about sex. A woman is a person. A full human. That should be logical. Some have made some decisions they might or might not regret. That’s where their life went. They can still be full human beings with stories and lives and compassion and attractiveness and hobbies and careers and passions. Full price? Wow. I’m sorry, this just makes it sound like sex and affection are a transaction and that women don’t have any value outside of sex. It’s depressing. At least you’re upfront, though.

          • “Wow, comparing women (human beings) to inanimate objects–cars. That’s really cruel.”- Aya

            Aya you missed my entire point it was an analogy and I won’t try to explain it to you. If you consider that cruel then it is no crueler than the check lists many women carry around that a man has to measure up to.

            “It’s not feminist rhetoric to say that a woman’s value isn’t all about sex. A woman is a person. A full human. That should be logical”-Aya

            I never said it was what logic did you use to arrive at that conclusion? Feminist rhetoric is caterwauling about the double standard when it does not apply to the topic or situation at hand.

            “They can still be full human beings with stories and lives and compassion and attractiveness and hobbies and careers and passions”-Aya

            Of course they can Aya you are stating the obvious. I believe the real purpose of that statement was to paint me as an uncaring thougtless ogre because you didn’t like what I had to say. Could stick to the topic at hand.

            “I’m sorry, this just makes it sound like sex and affection are a transaction and that women don’t have any value outside of sex”- Aya

            I never said that Aya! To me it seems like you are attempting to stand on some moral high ground where your intuiton allows you to read my mind. I can assure you I value women for more than sex.

      • “An argument could probably be made that it grows from traditional views of women as property for male use, and the more sex the property has had, the more “used” it has been by other men”-Rachel

        Men and women like to lay claim to each other when we marry. We want to be proud of our spouse not embarrassed and we certainly don’t want to be tricked into marrying someone we would have rejected.

        @ The Moderator
        You may not like what I had to say but I didn’t swear, engage in personal attacks and was not graphically crude so I see no reason to delete my previous post. Could you explain in a logical adult manner what was offensive?

  56. Candy,

    There are other ways to judge if someone is able to commit. Most people who fear commitment in a relationship also fear commitment in other areas. They may fear committing to one job, a goal, even a lease agreement. I feel more comfortable with a man who has fully satisfied his sexual desires. If it took him 30 women to do this then oh well. So long he is STD free. My friend is cheating on his wife because he feels he married too soon and didn’t get to experience the bachelor life fully. Another friend, who hands down earned the title of man whore, is approaching thirty and says he is finally ready to commit. He is choosing to remain abstinent because he no longer wants to have sex just to have sex. Even though we had great chemistry, a guy recently broke it off with me after two months because he hadn’t fulfilled all his sexual fantasies. He wanted a threesome, which I did not want to do and he never been with a foreign woman. I can’t help him with that. He felt stuck between having a relationship with me and fulfilling his desire. I fulfilled all of my sexual desires, so if he wanted to pursue a relationship with me after fulfilling his, I would accept. I appreciate that he was upfront rather than cheat on me. I even handed him a condom and told him if he came back he needs to be STD free. We make many selections in life. We move place to place until we find a place to call home. We jump from job to job until we find one with purpose. We try out many activities until we find a passion. So why shouldn’t we apply this same method when searching for love? Some people find that right person quickly and for others it may take longer. So long you are not abusing sex, then I see nothing wrong with having numerous sex partners until you find the right one. There are 6,993,166,093 billion people in the world. Do you really expect me to find Mr. Right For Me after only a few partners? The truth is whether you are someone’s first and only partner or someone’s 30th partner; there is no way of knowing if your partner will remain faithful and committed. You can’t force people to commit. You can’t attempt to predict people’s behavior. People will always ultimately do as they please. Just enjoy the moment, rather than be obsessed about someone running off to sleep with someone else, because all things come to an end anyways; hopefully it will be when death due you part but if not, at least you had the experience and now you are free to have a new.

  57. You’ve probably heard of some women being referred to as being “not the marrying kind…” Sometimes it’s better not to know “the number.” But it does not mean that “the number” doesn’t have any bearing on relationships. If she tells you she’s had 28 guys before, what makes you think there won’t be a # 30? You just don’t know when the train will stop, and the higher the number goes, the riskier it is. Women (especially) should also think about this when their men tell their sexual history. It all comes down to the “c” word… Commitment. In the end, it’s all how we feel about it- usually those who don’t care stick together, and those who do stick together.

    • Leroy Joseph says:

      Like I said above, my wife slept with lots of guys before I met her, she didn’t give me a number, but I am sure it is at least a few dozen. And what if she had worked at the Bunny Ranch and slept with hundred of men? Frankly it doesn’t make any difference to me. I love my wife for who she is now. And as to STDs, my wife always practiced safe sex when she wasn’t in a committed relationship. She made me wear a condom until we decided to be exclusive and were positive we were both clean.

      For me, I have slept with many ten or twelve women in my life, three of whom I was or are married to. I married my high school sweetheart, and since I have been married three times, and was in one other long-term relationship, there wasn’t much of a chance to play the field; not that I think I missed much.

  58. Thank God for this post! I’ve been asking the same question. Most of the time women have more sex partners than men. I have a diverse group of girlfriends from the shy introverted accountant to the full body tattooed artist. No matter what type of girl they are, they all have had numerous sex partners; well into the double digits. Don’t be fooled by the innocent looking ones. On the other hand, my male friends are primarily in the single digits. This may be why men increase numbers and women decrease numbers. When I was 21, I moved in with three college girls, all of whom had more sex partners than I did. Not only were they younger than me by a year or two but they had sex at a younger age. With only two partners under my belt, I felt I needed to catch up. Why was I even keeping my youthful, college attending legs closed? Needless to say I caught up; I think I even got ahead. Let’s face it; women get more sex offers than men. Given more opportunities, we often take them up. Due to courting dynamics, it’s harder for men to get laid because they have to put in a lot of work to get there. Just because women get more sex offers doesn’t make it qualitative. We mainly get quantity over quality. Thus we keep screwing until we find someone who meets our sexual expectations and other ones too. It’s quite an exhaustive process. I like to shop but not for good sex.
    If asked, I will gladly share my numbers with a man unashamed. His reaction will tell me how confident he is and give insight on how he views women. Honestly, if he were truly confident he wouldn’t ask. Many men ask out of insecurity, fear of her running off and fear of measuring up. Most men are intrigued by virgins not just because of the purity aspect but because she has zero point of reference. How will she know if he is good or not? Most men desire to be the best she has ever had. With higher numbers, the chances of him being a sexual rock star that can rock her boat like no other grow slimmer and slimmer. Men ask for numbers to satisfy their egos and put rest to their insecurities. Many men will deny this by saying ‘I just want to know if she is clean’. Well, ask if she has or has had an STD instead. Both get checked. Wear a condom and hope for the best. She could contract an STD by sleeping with just one partner. Numbers have little to do with cleanliness. Don’t ask an indirect question and expect a direct answer. Furthermore, numbers are relative. Let’s say a guy considers ten partners to be too much. I have had nine partners prior to him. If I sleep with him then he will be number ten. Will I then be equivalent to a porn star in his eyes? If so, should I say ‘sorry dude, I really wanted to sleep with you but I don’t want you to judge me’. His unwillingness to judge by character rather than by numbers caused his blue testes. Who decides how many is too many? What does a woman’s number mean anyway? Does it mean she is overly sexual? Does it mean she will sleep with anything that resembles a phallus? I think it means she is well experienced and less inclined to give into temptation because she has been there and done that. Sounds like a win-win situation for a man! Just think of it this way, if you are last then you are her best because her search for the best penis ended with you!

    • Leroy Joseph says:

      Great answer. Why are women so much more sensible and pragmatic about this issue than most guys? I have never asked my wife that question because I don’t care one way or another how many men she has slept with, but since we talk about absolutely everything with each other, including our past relationships and sexual experiences, I know that she has slept with a lot more men than I have women. Good for her, but who cares?

      Some of her stories are pretty funny. She dated a California state assembly man for several months before finally sleeping with him. When she finally did it with him, she said he was absolutely the worst she f–k ever had. She called him “minute man,” even her virgin high school boyfriend lasted longer than he did. And all the well she dated the assemblyman, she had a steady f-buddy. The assembly man was so proud of his 60 second performance, the next morning, he rode around his apartment with nothing but a cowboy hat and a pair of cowboy boots, riding a broom stick like it was a horse. My wife said it was hilarious. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that one. Too bad she didn’t have a video of it. I am sure it would have helped his re-election. LOL.

      I think couples who don’t feel secure enough in their relationships to talk about their wildest fantasies and secret thoughts are missing out on a lot. The more my wife and I communicate, the closer we have become. And I have shared some pretty wild fantasies with her. Maybe someday we’ll actually make a few of them come true. 🙂

      • Thanks Leroy! Funny story about your wife. I can relate and I bet a lot of other women have more bad yet funny sex stories than good ones. I am glad you are mature and confident enough to handle the truth!

    • I love this response, I honestly am a young 2X year old with a mid 2X year old who I know has had a much higher number of sex partner then me. I honestly cannot tell why it bugs me even in the smallest amount but this probably summed it up best. I honestly think any time I have brought it up it has been about insecurities, I know she’s had larger, been wtih those who last longer and perhaps enjoyed it better (but told otherwise on last). It makes me feel amazing to hear that but that doesn’t make the wonder go away. I often wonder if I’m programmed or just scared that she is more sure that she wants me because she’s been with more people then I am that I want her even though I do.

      • Thanks for being honest James. I don’t think you should be insecure about it because the insecurities is what will drive her away rather than your actual skills. I had a guy think his penis was small, it wasn’t. Just average size. I kept telling him. We would have amazing sex and I was clearly satisfied, even the neighbors knew. Afterwards he would ask how he did and I would reassure him that it was awesome. Then he would say it would be better if his penis was bigger. After such great sex, this was a major turn off. I had to leave him because he obsessed about it. The irony is that he has been my best so far. Would I go back? Nope, not even once. His current partner told me he does the same thing with her. So don’t compare yourself to anyone in any situation. Ever! You are the only you. Do you want to spend a lifetime wishing for something else? Just communicate with each other on how to please each other. Have fun. Be open. Be present. Relax. She can choose to be with anyone else and she has chosen you!

    • Scott80000 says:

      I used to be in the “don’t ask, don’t tell” camp, but, the older I get, the more that seems like the “deny and repress” camp. If one is in a committed relationship and honestly doesn’t care about the answer, I see no reason to ask. I think a lot of us men find the number of previous partners does matter, and we beat ourselves up trying to figure out why it does. My dating experience was very innocent until I met the woman who became my first wife. I was a virgin who had never dated someone with previous partners; when I asked her and she told me that her number was four, I was pretty disappointed. My approach at the time was to feel guilty about being such a judgmental jerk. I was able to process it in time, but negative feelings around sexuality are pretty hard to hide. My advice for anyone is to ask the question and, if the answer disappoints you, say the most loving and kind thing you can; then, haul your butt into a counselor’s office and work out any negative feelings you have about it. It doesn’t matter if your feelings would seem completely ridiculous, face it head on and get help if you need it.

    • ” if you are last then you are her best because her search for the best penis ended with you!”-JR

      Then I have to ask the question why was I chosen if you have had so many men some of them probably better than I am? If the response is I had my fun and I am ready to settle down with a nice guy the relationship is over. Please find an equally experienced male with similar values.

      • Why do you assume that other guys would be ‘better’ than you? If she loves you and you two can communicate in the bedroom, then no guy can compare.

        • I don’t know if they were better or not and I never ask since I expect be lied to. Its a safe assumption if a woman has a lot of partners some were better lovers, more accomplished or had more money and she is with me for other reasons. My objection is to women that live a certain life style then conviently transform their value system in the blink of an eye.

  59. The question depends on the stage of the relationship. If serious, it speaks to honesty and potentially closing a past chapter in your life. Regardless the number it is important to know you are the last partner. It is also important if you may run across a past lover, in so much as no one wants to be surprised to find out their spouse or partner had sex with a friend, co-worker, or shared acquaintance.

    • And I might add that sometimes those past experiences can be shared with tour partner and it can spice things up a bit. We try to minimize secrets in our relationship. We know most everything about Each other,to include sex. It all depends on the couple.

  60. Frankly, every spouse has the fundamental right to hear a number of things from their partner: One, I love you more than anyone else I’ve ever loved; two, I’ll be faithful to you; three, you’re the best I’ve ever been with (and I don’t just mean that BS emotional connection crap, which women use as a dodge when their current man doesn’t measure up in some fashion). Frankly, if any of these things isn’t the case, the marriage isn’t on the kind of bedrock foundation it should be.

    • why do you have the right to hear you are the best she has ever had? o_0 What if it isn’t so? What if she had better and lost him? He died, was an ass88le (yeah, that emotional :crap again – says a lot about you as a person, I think, btw) Do you want her to LIE to you?? What a douchebag – “he has a right”! If you gonna count your “rihgts” going to marriage, not what you are ready to give, might as well budget for another legal procedure…

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        I agree with AM. What is the point in lying to each other? Some of the sex I have had with my wife has been some of the best I have ever had. But in a relationship there is an ebb and tide; things get hot and things cool down. You can’t be 100% all the time. So I have also had some of the best sex I have ever had with some of my former spouses and lovers. I didn’t know that love and sex was a contest? Every person and relationship is precious and unique. I am not into comparing apples to oranges. My wife has had lots of lovers in her life, but she says only four men out of all of them were “great lovers who were unselfish, patient and understood how to really satisfy a woman.” Happily she includes me in that list ; I work hard at giving her pleasure and always put that before my own needs and then when I finally have my turn, it is more like a reward. The fact that three other men also on on that list doesn’t bother me in the least. Congratulations to them, my wife is a very beautiful, intelligent, passionate and discerning woman; they are obviously are very capable lovers and I hope they enjoyed being with my her as much as I do. I know she enjoyed them very much.

    • Charlie says:

      So what you’re saying is that for a marriage to survive and have a good foundation, it must be the best sex you’ve ever had? Or the partner must lie to their spouse? That’s so narrow minded! What you’re implying is that if it’s not the best sex between the two, the relationship won’t work. This is very wrong. I had multiple sexual partners before I settled down with my husband to whom I’ve been married for 25 years happily and the third man I had sex with was the best sex of my life and he is not my husband. But I love my husband to pieces and this has never bothered me and I would never change my mind and go back to the other man simply because he was better in bed. Marriage is about accepting flaws and balancing your strengths and weaknesses. Your relationship should be centered around an emotional connection not your penis!

    • I find that concept to be interesting. Flawed, but interesting. I recently married a woman who has an extremely wild past. She was in a relationship wiath a guy that would go to message parlor for hand jobs and oral sex. She told me she would have given him a b-job whenever he wanted to save that relationship. She always tells me i’m the love of her life. I’m her dream come true. I’ve had three in the 3+ years we’ve been together. Bottom line, women that have been promiscuous in the past think they can take it easy and not have to concern themselves with their husband/partners happiness. Unfortunately, we’re the ones that should matter the most. And promiscuous women wonder why they can’t keep good men. Huh… not too hard to figure out.

  61. Leroy Joseph says:

    My wife was married once and slept with lots of men before I met her. She also had several regular fuck buddies. She tells me about her past experiences and it does not bother me, if fact, I have enjoyed hearing about them, And yes one of the guys was 12″ and others were 8″ or 9″, I am only 6″; so what? We have great sex together and I am glad that she is a very experienced lover who really knows how to please a man. If my wife had of worked at a brothel before I met her and slept with 1000 men, why would that have made any difference to me? I love her for who she is now. Why are men studs when they sleep with lots of partners, but women are sluts if they do the same. It is not fair. Women are just as much sexual beings as men; in some ways they are more sexual.

    • bless you heart, my point exactly!

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        Thanks, AM.

        My wife told me that her first husband would fly into a rage if she so much as even mentioned an ex-boyfriend let alone talk about her past sexual experiences. He was an a-hole and she eventually left him as he became more and more abusive. She also said that when ever he wanted sex, she had to immediately drop what she was doing and service him whether she was in the mood or not else he would get angry and scare her. Even though they were married, isn’t this just a form of rape? What an awful way to live. If I am in the mood and my wife isn’t, sometimes she will do it to be loving and make me happy, other-times she will just say “not now, sweetie” and I can always take care of it myself if I am that randy. I would never pressure my wife or any other woman into sex. That is just wrong.

    • People who care about a prospective partner’s sexual history have every right to do so. It’s no different than someone who wants to know other aspects of someone’s life history, such as if they’ve been married and, if so, to whom and how many times. Some people wouldn’t be interested in someone who was married and divorced several times, and would want to know if that was the case.

      • But why do you want the information? I would want to know about prior marriages / divorces because they might indicate that this person has a tendency to get serious with people who are a poor match … or is a poor partner in some way themselves. I would want to know if they have kids because if married, my salary could also be garnished for their child support payments. I would want to know if they had STDs for obvious reasons – I could get them. I would want to know their views on casual sex, one-night stands, etc. because that tells me a lot about their views on sex, relating to the opposite gender, permissiveness, impulsivity, risk-taking, and in the course of these discussions, likely a real sense for whether they see women as whole people with the capadity to be sexual and smart and wise and self-preservational at the same time … or whether they suffer from some level of virgin-whore complex.

        But no where in that information-gathering do I need to know *exactly* how many people they’ve slept with. If you really need to know if you’re the “biggest”, frankly, you could ask that without knowing how many people she’s slept with. If the first guy a girl slept with made her see the face of God, and the second guy she slept with was average in skill but hung like an elephant, you’re going to be number three and have a false sense of security. And if your virgin bride hooks up with the pool boy in year 20 of your marriage and he’s bigger – well, tough cookies for you.

        Women really don’t think like men do here in most cases. There are SO many other qualities to go into being a good partner, in bed or in life. And a guy who has that magical chemistry and compatibility that makes things amazing for you physically is going to have to have the qualities that matter to that specific woman. We don’t all want the same thing, we don’t all want the same guy, and the woman whose been with 100 guys and has her head on straight knows what’s out there, knows what she can expect from the best and the worst that the male gender has to offer …. she is an experienced connoisseur of the male sex and is unlikely to settle for a bargain-bin, high-maintenance, low-offering inadequate speciman of manhood. Not only does she know better, she’s proven to herself that she can get better. If most men understood the female brain/life experience a bit more, they’d either not care, or they’d be bragging that a woman with her pick of the litter and the knowledge to make a well-informed choice ….. chose them.

        • Eric M. says:

          “But why do you want the information?”

          I don’t want or need any information since I’m married. However, some people want that information for the same reasons you say you want other information. The rationale is the same. It’s just different information.

          So, you each either tell whatever the other wants to know or each only tell them what you want them to know.

  62. Oh i do but thats what men think. And hes lying if he says other whys.

  63. The whole thing behind it is to get an idea of the chances that she might have slept with a guy who has a bigger penis. That is the whole reason to ask the question end of story. if she tells you that she slept with 20 guys its not the number that worries you its the iseo that one of those guys had a 12 inch penis while you only have a 6 inch one. And then you start thinking that you cant satisfy her like him so you try not having sex.

    • Julie Gillis says:

      You do realize That the size of the penis may not be the most satisfying part of the men?

    • Leroy Joseph says:

      I remember a cigarette commercial from years ago that went something like this, “It is not how long you make it, but how you make it long.” I remember reading an article with Linda Lovelace years ago where she said it wasn’t the size of the dick that mattered, but how well it was used. My wife has a FB with 12.” Does that make me feel inadequate? No. We have a great sex life together and she says I am a perfect size for her. I think she is telling the truth on that, but if not, she is happy with me and being kind at the same time. There seems to be a lot of insecure guys out there.

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        Oops, I meant to say “had a FB.” I wouldn’t want to falsely accuse my wife of any hanky-panky. Not that ti would bother me all that much if she was.

  64. Balancing act says:

    As a woman I have never quite understood the meaning men are seeking when asking this question, my respect for them drops dramatically if they have an issue with my answer. Sex can be a wonderous and beautiful experience and when ego’s get in the way it truly ruins what its all about.

    • ditto!

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        Got to agree with you ladies. That is one question I have never asked a woman. Who she slept with before me is really none of my business as long unless she doesn’t have an STD.

    • I saw a (scarring) video in college – some frat house with a couple “doing it” on a table for an all-male audience of frat boys. What shocked me was that most of the audience in the video weren’t really watching the female “performer” or reacting to her. They were making random comments for their buddies’ to hear, then kept glancing at each other to see what the other guys were saying, doing, reacting to. The experience appeared to have more to do with bonding among the guys than it had anything to do with either the sex involved or the nude woman four feet away.

      Regardless of how that might affect your esteem of the opposite sex, I think this is something of a ranking system for men, who do – from a female’s perspective – seem to constantly be ranking their sexuality against that of other men’s. If guy A lands a virgin, and he tells his buddies that, it’s code for, “I have a woman that (a) no other guy has this knowledge of” – and honestly, running in to a boyfriend or husband’s ex who has also hooked up with him can be awkward for women too – “and (b) she thinks I’m the best.” For guy B, in the competition to seem like a sexual expert to his partner, that might be a quality that he feels insecure about because his wife was married before and engaged before and dated quite a bit and what if, deep down, she doesn’t think he’s awesome, etc.

      Disgusting, but it is what it is. And as the comments and this story show, it’s a mindset that not all men suffer from by any stretch. I’ve dated a lot of guys who just really do not want to know.

    • MarkGrokowski says:

      I’m sorry to disagree with you.Its not about ego its about trust I can tell my girlfriend how many partners I’ve had with no problem why shouldn’t she do the same. What is bothersome to us is that the number of partners you have had says a great deal about your character would you go out with someone who had sex with over 100 partners STDS aside you have to wonder does this person have no self control? Can I trust them?Whats to stop them from having more partners?Sex is a wonderful thing but when its not with someone you love then its not meaningful. I’m 19 years old and one thing I can tell you is that the people of this world have no more self control the majority ultimately give into temptation creating divorces for example so yea I think it is kinda of important to know.

  65. The author doesn’t have a clue and I will tell you why:

    He has had more sex partners than he can count on his fingers. Therefore, sex to him is meaningless. It would be a double-standard for him to worry about his wife’s past when he has more of one.

    However, some of us guys have been with women who are far more experienced and, yes, it does matter. It’s not about comparing my sexual technique to other men. Who cares? It’s about trying to understand my wife’s psyche, how she views sex, and how she interacts with men. As her husband, that affects me a great deal.

    • Julie Gillis says:

      How so?

    • i don't believe you says:

      I think partner count informs more about a woman’s sexuality than a man’s.

      • I agree w/ Taime. Different people are programmed with different biological strategies (that are often acted out unconsciously). For women, a couple common strategies are finding a good partner & being loyal to him only, or finding the best combinations of genes and resources from a variety of men. Of course a person’s rationality can trump their wiring, but people usually behave somewhat along the lines of their wiring. A woman w/ many previous partners will always have the same programming. She might make a conscious effort to act a certain way: a natural sperm collector might mold herself into a one-man woman, or she could fall in line w/ her nature & cheat on him.

        • Hang on a moment, are you also applying that to men? Are you saying that a man who has had many sexual partners will always have the same programming? And that a man with few sexual partners will also always have the same programming?

        • You do realize this implies that 3.5 billion people are all more or less the same – and completely different from another group of 3.5 billing people?

          Maybe some women – and some men – believe the same way you do. Maybe some don’t. Maybe some women are wired differently biologically.

          There’s a lot of variety out there (and no need to come back and point out that *you* wouldn’t want to date a man or woman who was wired differently – irrelevant).

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        And why would that be? Because a guy who sleeps with a lot of women is a stud and a women who sleeps with a lot of men is a slut? Obviously this is a guy’s POV and as a guy, I just don’t agree with it.
        In fact, I find this whole conversation demeaning to women.

        I would rather be very happy with my rather experienced wife (which also makes her an experienced lover) who I get along with fabulously than be married to a stuck-up bitchy woman who was a virgin when I married her.

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        Why is that? You are making a statement without any kind of facts or argument to back it up. If it is just your opinion, you should qualify that. I would like to hear the logic or experience behind your statement. Why does it tell more about a woman from the number of sexual partners she has had than a man? I don’t get it.

    • it is on the mind of alot of guys how many has your wife slept with, i met my wife 10yrs ago when she was 30 yrs old, i knew back then she had slept with a few guys and it didnt worry me at all, but recently after a few drinks in front of close friends she came out with the number 80 or more, to her she felt it was a normal amount, my thoughts about her has changed alot but i keep them to myself, i love her to bits and no it hasnt got to get the better of me, for the record ive slept with 6 females, and to be honest if i knew what i no now i wouldnt have gone out with her, but like i said i do love her and i have to let her past not to get to me, peter

      • Leroy Joseph says:

        Sorry, but what you are saying make no sense. You say you love your wife, but if you had known how many men she had slept with you wouldn’t have gone out with her? She is exactly the same person now as she was before she told you about the 80 guys. Nothing has changed other than the fact that you seem pretty hung up about it. She choose to marry you, you love her, so accept her for who she is and get over it! From my experience, that isn’t an outrageous number for a woman. Unlike men, they can get laid as many times as they want any day of the week. So what?

      • It actually speaks pretty highly of you that she chose you knowing quite a bit about what sorts of other guys she could have had. Obviously, you’ve got some fairly special qualities that set you apart from most men! (For the record, that’s what a woman whose dated a bit would see in your story.) Sounds like an occasion to pat yourself on the back to me, bro.

        • Yes Rachel she had her fun with an assortment of men then wanted to settle down with a different kind of guy. Promiscuous women rarely want promiscuous men when they are ready to settle down. In the case of Peter’s wife she had to lie to secure the relationship since deep down she knew he would never accept her as she was / is. The fact Peter posted on this forum indicates he is struggling with his wife’s past indescretions and it will continue to eat at him in subtle ways until one day it manifests itself in an ugly manner. I wonder if Peter has children with this woman and is now vested in the relationship so it will be much more painful to disengage.

          • How do you know that promiscuous women don’t want to date promiscuous men? Have you talked to every woman ever? Some people are simply about the connection, chemistry, and level of getting along with the person. Some people are about compatibility, regardless of the journey it took to get there.

            • I have had more than my share of VERY promiscuous women find their way into my life and I am not sure why I attract them. I don’t claim to know the inner working of every woman’ mind. In my experience men AND women don’t want to settle down with promiscuous partners. Its not always the case but the majoirty of the time it is.

      • 80 or more? WTF?? My God, that is disgusting and sick. If my girlfriend has slept with that many men, I’d would puke out vomit and break up with her ass. That just shows that a person has no respect for themselves, regardless of gender. Thankfully, me and my girlfriend lost our virginities to each other. I could not put up with being a sloppy 81st. A person’s sexual history matters, it’s too many STD’s out here.

        • Okay. We’ve been dancing around the truth. You”open minded” men a really trying to deny the feelings created by the truth. NO MAN knowingly wants to marry a s.l…t. Admit it is the truth. Mainly because of trust. I found out ALL OF IT after the rings were on the fingers. If I knew the truth I could have made a decision. Talk about the height of manipulation. Ladies, you do what you so and you get what you get. You limit yourselves to having long term relationships with low lives.

      • Scott80000 says:

        You’re a good man, Peter. Fact is, when some of us find out these details about our partners, the answer hurts even if we don’t want it to. This is a pretty easy thing to talk with a counselor about; I highly recommend doing it, unless you are sure that it doesn’t bother you. My first wife left me because she felt that I was not able to process her answer to my question (14 years before!). It’s complicated stuff. And, on behalf of humankind, I apologize for Jason9000’s remarks. Keep the faith, and don’t be afraid to face this head on.

    • lee_terry says:

      Honestly since I think sex should only happen between people who are in love and have been in a serious relationship for at least 2 months (preferably longer) I have a different opinion. I only want to be with women who feel the same way I do on that and so that # is somewhat important. If the woman has had more then 15 partners at my age (28) it will tell me that she isnt the type to settle down for long term and that she probably doesnt feel the same about sex that I do. I am at 4 partners so far not counting myself or toys (masturbation). However I would not turn a woman down just because she has had more partners then I am comfortable with I would simply let her know how I feel about sex and that if she couldnt handle waiting till we are both ready without trying to pressure me then it wouldnt work between us. Sometimes it takes them some time to realize that I am serious and I am not just pretending to be the nice guy cuz I think that is what they want. Which to be honest I believe most women are opposite (they prefer the bad guys) because of personal experience but bringing that up with a woman is a bad idea.

  66. Women go on and continue to slut around… Men will continue to use you and move on.

    May there never come a day.. when you are ill (breast cancer perhaps)…Lying there looking to your husband for strength, courage and encouragement.. Maybe, he will smile and say the right things. Maybe he will serve you divorce papers as you will no longer be
    pretty” .. If that day comes … you will know that in that place which substitutes for a heart in such men.. He will be thinking about that hot young thing and dreaming of his next *(&(*^ fantasy and you will not even be a passing thought.

    He will walk because he was never there to begin with.. You were nothing but another piece of meat.

    You will have done this to yourselves.. You will have done this to your daughters and sisters.

    You devalued yourself, your humanity your sexuality.. You bought into the lie of ” Sexual Equality” where no equality exists, never has and never will.

    Those with men with money and power turned you and your sister into whores and sluts for a reason..
    By debasing you they insure your children your families will never be a threat to their power, position and authority.. That constant strife in your home is money in the bank for those who hate you and yours.

    Sexual Promiscuity, Abortion,,, Divorce all weapons to destroy your life.. To take the heart from any many who might love you and with whom together you might build a better future for you, your children and their children

    You bought the lie maybe starting in high school , certainly in college.. Now cry with it.. Cry for true love and commitment you will never know. Cry for the future of children perhaps yet unborn which you squandered the day you lifted your your ankles over your ears to be popular with men who never valued you as a human being in first place and never will.

    From one who knows how to love to those who will never know what it is to be loved I am truly sorry sad for all you have lost. and can never regain.

    If there is any saving grace.. if you have the courage to face what you have done to your lives.. Perhaps with faith and patient love you can point your daughters and sons gently down a better path than the one you took.. Else all is lost.

  67. You know what, I would argue very differently. I think it is important to understand how many partners a woman has been with. Of corse it goes both ways, but a lot can be learned about her past, decision making, and tendencies through her choice of “partner(s).” It may be harder to bite the bullet and hear, but there is much that can be said from anyone’s past. This is to not concretely say they are “so and so” because they had relations with a particular individual, but you’d be surprised with relationships trends.

  68. asexually frustrated says:

    It isn’t mathematically possible for men to ON AVERAGE have more partners than women within the same population unless the men in the sudy are having sex with other men or with women outside the study population. Kinsey’s numbers must have been “reported” sexual partners if they referred to heterosexual intercourse, or the sample population was skewed. All those women with whom men are reportedly having sex with are women who are sexually active and those numbers will drive up the average number for the women as well. It is a common, sexist, and impossible assumption that men are on average more sexually active than women. It could be true that there are a subset of men in the population who are highly sexually active and a subset who have zero partners, so that if you take just the sexually active men, you get an articifically high number. If this is the selection bias to blame, it hardly says that men are inherently more sexually active.

    • David Byron says:

      The word average means a measure of centrality but there are several different ways of calculating an average. For example:

      Mean = Sum of individuals / number of individuals
      Median = the middle individual taken in ascending order
      Mode = the value which is held by the most individuals

      While the mean is often the average used, it does have a problem with extreme values throwing it off. For that reason the median is often a better choice of average. For example for wages and probably it was what was used to calculate this average number of partners.

  69. keyser soze says:

    Men are predators and women are prey, plain and simple…
    So men care about the number women have had because men associate more partners with the inability to survive the sexual inter- “course” . Its a jungle in a man’s mind where only the strong women survive and men want to know that their woman is a survivor and not an easy catch.

    Women care about men’s numbers because they want to know if their man is a predator that can’t control his urge to hunt. But women don’t ask men because they are most times afraid of the answer. They would rather create their man’s image than accept the fact that he’s preyed on many others.

    Example:
    – A woman will cry during sex because they assume that their man is picturing another woman that they’ve been with…. Prey
    -A man will stop in the middle of sex because they are wondering how many men have had their woman in the same position… Predator

    Just human nature

  70. I question woman partners on how many guys they slept with, but I don’t do it to just find out their history or become jealous. I do it because it’s an absolute turn on for me. Not sure why, but I want details and it enhances my sexual relationship with the woman. Is that wrong or absurd? I don’t know, but I know I like it when I get details. The obvious problem is many don’t like to divulge. Anyone have a good technique as to how to the info? Btw, I have no problem revealing anything about my past sexual experiences if they want to hear it (which isn’t often).

  71. A WOMEN’S BODY IS A SACRED TEMPLE…AND IN TODAY’S SOCIETY (U.S CULTURE) WOMEN NO LONGER VALUE THEIR BODIES….AND THE ONES THAT DO WILL EARN MY RESPECT. THIS ARTICLE IS GARBAGE IF YOU WANT A WHORE THAT WILL CHEAT ON YOU MARRY A WOMAN THAT SLEPT WITH 50 GUYS. THAT IS WHY MARRIAGE IS SLOWLY LOSING IT’S VALUE AND INFIDELITY IS NOW THE SOCIAL NORM.

  72. There is a saying “don’t sleep with one’s wife/ daughter.. so that you don’t get a wife who has slept with others”. That means if you have had sex with others illegally, not your wife, then you will marry with someone who has had sex with others. If you are verging surely you will marry someone who is verging. Don’t want something for someone that you don’t want it for yourself !
    Everything in this world has to do with the past ! Your past determines your future. The joy of sex and love is that both partners are verging and while having sex non of them will have to worry how many dicks and pussies… ( my apology for my broken english)

  73. But the truth is, regardless if its the past or the future.. WE ALL OBTAIN SECRETS.

  74. I, unfortunately, am suffering through this right now. Before I was married, I was told by my wife that she had slept with 18 men. I’ve had 16, mostly serious relationships. I recently found a list that in reality puts her number closer to 30 (I hope at a max). She won’t talk about it. The list includes: “Montreal guy” “random guy” “monkey”. I also found out that the previous guy was actually a fuck-friend that would take her out to dinner. They continued to see each other up to the week we met. And who I now, through some shitty twist of fate, play hockey with his best friend. I don’t live in a small town. It sucks.

    So does the past matter? Would it matter to my wife if I had a prostitute fetish before we married (I didn’t)? Was she prostituting herself for dinner, company and a screw?

  75. This is all nice when the numbers are as low as your examples. I have good reason to believe that my GFs number may be up to 50 times higher than mine. Excuse me, I’m about to go shoot myself in the face.

  76. great article. its nice to see an educated man in a Successful Relationship with an intelligent opinion.

    it seems to me like these “men” who are degrading women by calling them ‘sluts’ are probably bitter men who have either been cheated on, are cheaters, or who have never and will never reach a level of intimacy that is beyond the act of sexual intercourse. seems true, men DO think with their little heads. HAHA.

  77. For one to say, “the past is the past and it has little to no effect on one’s present or future” is ignorant. All our previous actions and decisions define who we are today. Shakespeare, “The choices we make, dictate the life we lead.” You cannot tell me having the ability to give yourself completely to your spouse is the equal to “here, you can have whatever is left”. To hear a woman announce, “my past sexual experiences does not matter” is extremely offensive to me. Hearing this only reinforces how little regard she has for sex, actions of a sexual nature and it tell me how little she cares of herself and me too. The more something is used the less value it carries. If you choose to use the most intimate part of your body with anyone you meet, then at which point does it suddenly become a valued gift for your life partner? I am not saying everyone should marry as virgins; however, after 3 to 4 people, a few one night stands, “hook ups” (socially acceptable one night stands) and booty calls (socially acceptable prostitution without a monetary transfer) you have given away anything you had to give to begin with and may as well be considered leftovers. I find when asking a girl how many partners she has had and she pauses, it is because she knows she is “loose” and feels ashamed of her actions. In this case there is no need to call her a slut because she knows she is one and has been living in denial comparing herself to the “sluttier” friend she has or knows. I know a lot of promiscuous women will be reading this and cursing me, but remember the only reason this message has upset you is because in the end you know I am right and I am referring to you, otherwise you would have no reason to dislike my words.

    • This is one of the most sexist messages I’ve ever read. “she knows she’s loose” are you kidding me? I wish there was a negative connotation for the male penis. You do have a point past sexual experiences are important. I mean there shouldn’t be an outrageous amount. Now I’m not a promiscuous women. I dislike your words because you simply attacked only women. It is a fallacy to assume that any women that disagrees with your words means they are who you speak of. That’s a tactic that leaves no room for debate and insures that you are correct even with opposition. The vagina is not a “gift” to a man. Yes it is special just like the penis but to say it is a “gift” is ridiculous. I slept with 10 men before I was married at 26. That’s less than one a year. The reason is because the majority of them were in relationships. Try to be less of a misogynist

    • The problem with this message is that you neglect to think about how it would sound if you were talking about a man. Sarah up there said a bunch, so I’m just going to change your message to describe a man.

      For one to say, “the past is the past and it has little to no effect on one’s present or future” is ignorant. All our previous actions and decisions define who we are today. Shakespeare, “The choices we make, dictate the life we lead.” You cannot tell me having the ability to give yourself completely to your spouse is the equal to “here, you can have whatever is left”. To hear a man announce, “my past sexual experiences does not matter” is extremely offensive to me. Hearing this only reinforces how little regard he has for sex, actions of a sexual nature and it tell me how little he cares of himself and me too. The more something is used the less value it carries. If you choose to use the most intimate part of your body with anyone you meet, then at which point does it suddenly become a valued gift for your life partner? I am not saying everyone should marry as virgins; however, after 3 to 4 people, a few one night stands, “hook ups” (socially acceptable one night stands) and booty calls (socially acceptable prostitution without a monetary transfer) you have given away anything you had to give to begin with and may as well be considered leftovers. I find when asking a man how many partners he has had and he pauses, it is because he knows he is “loose” and feels ashamed of her actions. In this case there is no need to call him a slut because he knows he is one and has been living in denial comparing himself to the “sluttier” friend he has or knows. I know a lot of promiscuous men will be reading this and cursing me, but remember the only reason this message has upset you is because in the end you know I am right and I am referring to you, otherwise you would have no reason to dislike my words.

      See? Doesn’t make much sense to people now. Maybe you need to think about what you said, consider how incredibly sexist it is, and then not say it again.

      Also: Maybe the reason they don’t want to tell you is because they don’t want to be judged. Clearly, you are not one for accepting people as they are, so it is completely understandable that women would not want you to know about their previous partners. Until you are able to realize that sex, as well as love, is something that can be special more than once, with more than one person, it will be impossible for you to respect anyone that has ever had feelings for anyone else.

  78. I really don’t mind telling my partner the truth I think sometimes as humans we are afraid of being judged & try to make ourselves better for the next person without knowing what will happen. When I meet my partner I lied about my past & hope that all will be well but it just got worse through questions & asking things that make me uncomfortable eg. Did they have big Digs??What kind of question is that?? later on the relationship he got to find out what really happened in my life I cheated on my Ex boyfriend with 3 people & my hubby knows the truth now because he kept on digging for me I guess he was afraid that I might do the same to him, no matter how much I try & explain myself or show him that I am truly a changed person he doesn’t believe me @ all.

  79. forsakendemogorgon says:

    you kill one person or 100 you are a killer, you have sex with one person or 100 you are no longer a virgin

    and PAST DOES affect the future, if you dont believe me google wifes in male strip clubs sucking dicks.
    That is your wife, who will come home and kiss your lips with the same mouth that sucked a unknown mans dick half hour ago. That is the Reality.

    Those who loose their self restraint go ALL OUT and that is what they will do all their life. Understand the pain I am in when I love the beauty of women, but get just disgusted by the reality of what they will do and have done.

    While doing it you will not think about it, but when you REALLY think about it, YEah that is when you gain Enlightenment.

    • 1. What is your point about the loss of virginity? It seems kind of pointless to me.

      2. Yes, the past affects the future. True. That does not mean that every woman has been a stripper at some point.

      3. Those who lose self restraint go all out? Meaning if you have sex once, you are a disgusting, terrible whore who will sleep with anyone that has a penis?

      4. You love the beauty of women, but are disgusted by them. Are you also disgusted by men? The average man age 30 to 44 has had almost twice as many partners as the average woman. By that logic, men should disgust you almost twice as much. Also, define “what they will do and have done.” Do you mean that they have had sex? Because almost everyone has had sex. Get used to it.

      5. Your last statement makes no sense whatsoever. It is just a jibe intended to be awe-inspiring but actually comes off as unintelligible and stupid.

  80. Good luck catching diseases while you and your partner have sex.

  81. The past is the past. Leave it there. Anything that might give a bad impresssion does not need to be disclosed, past relationships, marriages, whatever.

  82. First off great article. Its the truth. I had the number talk with my girlfriend (now my wife) when we started dating. But I must also agree with Ben from above. The reason I wanted to know was to see if she was mature enough to handle telling me the truth no matter what. I had been decieved by women before and felt that the hardest question for most women to answer might shine some light on wether I could trust them.

  83. I strongly disagree with this article on that the past don’t matter and don’t define you. As if sex diceases & love from past defines you more or is more important than whom you deside to have sex with? And then to justify lying about it if the number matters to the partner? This is rediculous. If your relationship can not handle the truth of your past & you can not be responsible enough for what you have done to tell the truth about what you have done even if the partner wants details then you are not ready for a serious relationship as such wil be based on a lie & a false notion of whom we are & how much what we do matter. It DOES matter how many you have sex with, for that in itself shows how honest you are and responsible for what you do. It also shows how quick you are to learn from what you do. We ARE both our past & present and if we are to know someone we must know both. I have made many mistakes in the past, but my future partner will have no reason to trust me & confide in me if I can not be honest about them & show I have learned something from it. Honestly the views shared in this article is dumb and short sighted and seems to justify irresponsbly sleeping around with whomever you like & lie about it as if that would create less hurt than asking into the past. Remember if the partner has done these things they are already deep inside carrying this hurt & it may surface at times and that a partner will have the rigth to know about if they are to invest their life in the relationship. No secrecy, lies or dishonesty can be justified to other than the shortsighted cowards who are afraid of the truth & don’t believe enough in good that we can learn from the truths & mistakes of ourselves & others and such a person should stay out of relationships for there is no greater pain than being deceived & betrayed by those you love

  84. If her past doesn’t matter, neither does mine. It doesn’t matter how many times I’ve been married and divorced (unless I have kids) or the number of times I broke off an engagement – since the past is the past.

    According to the argument presented by the article, neither of us needs to disclose our past. It’s not relevant according to the writer/blogger. I disagree.

  85. The past is the past, and has no bearing on the future unless you choose to make it so. The only aspect of past relationships that might have a bearing on the future are children. Nothing else absolutely needs to be disclosed.

  86. I agree in principle. The past is the past. Past relationships, sexual or otherwise, including marriages (unless there are children) have no bearing on the future and do not need to be disclosed.

  87. Ha, so… someone asked me how many people I had sex with and I started the reply with “well according to Bill Clinton” before answering. I still think oral sex is sex but I figure most people don’t so I specify in a ridiculous way.

  88. Henry Vandenburgh says:

    Women’s past sexual partners: the more the better. Same as me. Current: hopefully only me (but don’t tell me if it isn’t true.) I’ll observe the same rule.

  89. Lindsay Davison says:

    Love how the author makes a point of mentioning he’s had more than ten sexual partners …
    Maybe it *shouldn’t* be bragging, but it still is. Hugo Schwyzer has some good stuff to say, but never fails to brag about his sexual exploits. It’s annoying.

  90. Finally men have their own sexual resource to combat the victim theology of feminism: http://manhood101.com/ebook.html

  91. Where do all the manginas come from? Lol, only in america!

    I think you guys think too much! I will simplifiy things for you.

    Do you know the reason a women’s sexual history matters to a man? Because it does!

    Do you know why women don’t care about a man’s number? Because they don’t!

    Why? Well, that proabby can be explained by the millions of years that we have evolved like human beings. Way past my pay grade, but definately the reason why I don’t care for unicorns, princesses and flowers, and she does!

    Nobody wants to be the schmuck that buys the cow when the milk has been free for lots of other men. Listen to the women here saying that sex is just some cool thing to pass the time with no complications. Lol, what complicates ife more than sex. I could give you a looooong lust of reasons why her sexual matters!

    Bootom line, men have easy access to sex thanks to the sexual revolution creating a huge supply of promiscuous women and also have a huge supply of women who are naturally inclined towards human bonding and family and no other way then to feel meaning in sex. This is the women you want to raise your children and can rely on to be by your side because of her bond to you and nothing else. And as long as that is our reality…..well as james brown once said…..”Its a mans world”. Thank you feminism!

    • Hey guess what Ryan, there are also women out there that LOVE big heaping quantities of dirty dirty sex AND find meaning in sex. These women are also able to raise and have wonderful families with wonderful men that support them. 😮 I know that doesn’t fit into your “women who have too much sex by my standards get punished by being crappy mothers and wives and live destitute lives”, but that just isn’t the case. You can try to shame women for their sexuality all you want but it’s not going to change things. Women like sex. I’m sorry you find that shameful.

      Women aren’t any more promiscuous then men. They just live in a world that better lets them explore sex then in previous generations. Ask how many women rather live in the world today where they have the freedom to sleep with who they choose vs. live in yesterday’s world where they were expected to not express their sexuality until they got married, where even then, they weren’t really suppose to enjoy anything. At least not like ther husbands where allowed to. And that’s when their husbansd where actually home. Considering it use to be fairly common for men to step out on their wives and families for a few hours with a mistress. And other men lived in a brotherhood of silence when it came to mistresses because it was okay to disrespect your wife instead of manning up and showing some restraint.

      Can’t have it both way Gentlemen. You can’t want women to be sexual and exciting creatures but for them not to feel like expressing their sexuality until they meet *you*, out of your sheer wonderful masculinity. Women like sex. That might break your heart but I suspect lingering anger issues at women and name calling them like high school boys is done out of your own insecurity then any honest preference for a certain number of bed mates.

      • Erin, can’t you do any better than the typical cliche responses:i I must be “jelous” “angry” and “insecure” to care about a womens sexual history? Give me a break.

        Didn’t I simplify it for you? It matters because it does. In other words, men aren’t conditioned or brainwashed by some bizzaro invisible patriarchy. Its the complete opposite. Almost all men, at puberty naturally begin to be sexually attracted to promsicuous girls and naturally lust after them, while naturally feeling averse to forming a relationship with them. I don’t expect any feminist to admit this because it completely turns their theory of the onvisible patriarchy upside down on its head.

        In fact, its the opposite as I stated – men who look past a womens sexual history do so for other reasons dependign on their circumstnaces such as (1) they are OLD, and are at the end of their ability to attract women and will look past a wopmens history if she is younger, or he is just thinking about dying alone without a companion. (2) an unattractive man is more likely to look past her history if she is considerably more attractive then he is, (3) sex is the single most important thing in his life, (4) he doesn’t plan on ever marrying or having kids with a particualr women and she is merely a fun time for a year or two, (5) he operates in a a social circle/lifestyle where meeting promiscuous women is unavoidable. These are some examples but you get the point.

        interesting, I read an article called “can women have happy endings lije the guys”? It was about getting orgasm from your massage therapist. This women decided (in the name of equality) to show her readers that there shouldn’t be a stigma for women when, its “ok” for men. She ended up going and asking for some incredibly good looking hunk to give her a happy ending and he gladly obliged. Nnow, herein lies the disconnect- men who get these “happy endings” receive them from basically indentured unattractive prostitutes from third world countries and pay hundreds of dollars to do so. This woman, on the other hand gets a happy ebding from this super stud massage therapist for free. So, where ios the equality in that? Don’t you see the difference here? Women will never ever be “studs” because” even the most average looking girl will have tons of men tripping over their feet for the opportunity to have sex, or in this case give them a happy ending. This is just alll about power, that’s what feminism has always beeb about. Don’t all powers come witha catch? Doesn’t every forcin nature have something to balance it out? Forget about ideals for a second. Just on a basic common sense level from all we know about the world, wouldn’t it make sense that if one species (women) have the power to choose to have sex whenever they want, then there would be a NATURAL counterbalance to this power?

        See, hugo schwyzer and his bleeding heart (overthinking) liberals are teaching men to do what comes naturallly. Feminists of all people should repsect a man’s right to choose the criteria that he select women, whether it be for sex or relationships, and a nan has every right to reject a woman, just as she has every right to sleep with whoever she wants to.

        Best piece of advice for women, your number doesn’t matter until it does. If a great guy comes along and he ends up being uncomfortable with your past, then is he really now a angry evil insecure jealous asshole? Or is he just a great guy that is uncomfortable with your past?

        • In regard to the author, I meant to say: he is traching men to act against what comes natural. And naturally of course, this is what academics do, they overthink things and then act like they are way better than they actually are. Example: “free love”….ya, how did that utopia turn out?

          • Actually, I don’t think you must be “jealous”, “angry” and “insecure” to care about a woman’s sexual history alone. It’s your entire conversation about women vs. men that leads me to believe there are some insecurities on your part. All of us have certain insecurities. Heck, I do. I don’t have issues with that so much as trying to shame women for their sexuality because of your own insecurities.

            It’s one thing to say that you’re uncomfortable with a woman’s numbers because you will wonder how you measure up. That’s honest. Verse talking about women in terms of cows and milk and a man being a schmuck if he gets hitched with a girl that actually had sex before him. The horrors. The horrors that women have sexual lives beyond you.

            You believe it’s “natural” for boys to “lust” after promiscuous girls while having no desire to form relationships with them. As if it’s not natural for boys to “lust” after non-promiscuous girls? Because only promiscuous girls are sexy? (That’s an unhealthy madonna/whore complex) Or it’s okay for boys to use one set of girls for sex, and use another set of girls for making babies? How would you feel if girls used one set of men for sex and the other for providing for them?

            Not only is it natural for boys to lust after girls when they hit puberty (and not just “promiscuous girls”), it’s natural for girls to have lustful feelings themselves when they hit puberty. (I was so chalked full of hormones at that age. The shower head proved to be a good friend).

            You asked where the equality was in a woman author getting a “happy ending” from a “stud massage therapist” for free vs a man getting a happy ending from a “indentured unattractive third world prostitute”. First, it wasn’t for free, she paid the massage therapist yes? Most women aren’t getting massages for “happy endings” either. Most women, no matter how hot the guy was, would still be sceeved out at the idea of a strange guy feeling them up. So just because one female author did her own experiment, doesn’t mean it’s a truth for women in general. Second, I have no doubt there are men that get “happy endings” from third world prostitutes, but that’s their choice. The way you described the incident is as if men had no other options but to get “happy endings” from ugly, less fortunate women. (By the way, here you are describing these women so pathetically and yet all your sympathy is for these poor men that have to suffer through “happy endings” with ugly indentured less fortunate women. That’s messed up). Thirdly, men have many more options for purchasing sex then just third world unattractive women. There is no shortage of strip clubs filled with beautiful women
            that do things to single, engaged or married men everyday. Strip clubs for men far out number strip clubs for women. I am also sure there are no shortage of indentured third world women both beautiful and less attractive filled in “massage parlors”. But to claim the real injustice is the lack of attractive women around to give happy endings is the real inequality seems to be the wrong place to place priorities.

            The thing about women is that we don’t usually just want sex alone. We don’t want to be used for sex either. But we are allowed to be sexual beings with sexual lives. Women are sexual people. Just like men are. We are human. And when you deny that aspect of women, just so you can have some “pure” and not “promiscuous”, that’s not biology, that’s selfish. We do men and women a huge deservice in fostering unhealthy attitudes about female sexuality.

            I am also not on board with your theory that it’s so hard for men to get sex and it’s so easy for women to. Men can easily get sex just as women can. Sex they don’t have to pay for.

            I don’t think a guy is evil or just a jealous asshole if he is uncomfortable with a woman’s sexual past. I do think he needs to ask himself if he is motivated by selfish desires, or what’s really best for him and this woman. You asked: “or is he just a great guy that is uncomfortable with your past”. Is it not also possible that she is just a great woman that has had a color sexual past? Does a woman that enjoyed her sexuality and express it mean she is evil? Of course not. Not any more then a guy is “evil” because he has some personal questions and insecurities about a woman’s past.

            Women are sexual beings. That should be celebrated. Not torn down. It’s not right to want to live in a world that wants women to be beautiful, sexy and sexual but only when it comes down to *you*. It’s funny though how the world tells us we are suppose to be sexy without being sexual. So we are really just suppose to show the images of being available fun loving happy sexual beings without really being them. Women are sexual beings Ryan. And no amount of trying to shame women for it by seperating women into two groups, women good enough to just sleep with and women good enough to have relationships with, is going to change that. And if you are honest with yourself, you wouldn’t like it if women separated men into two like groups. Men good enough to use for dates and free meals, and men good enough to marry.

            You have a right to have list of any qualities in a female partner. I just don’t like the shaming of woman’s sexuality in the process.

            • Are you, or are you not familiar with the term, “Mr. Right, just not Mr. Right now”? Tell me women (most of who are promiscuous) do not separate men into the two groups. I have a friend how has been told he is Mr. Right Now by a number of different women. Can you imagine the uproar women would be in if it became common place for a man to announce to a woman he intends to have sex with, “Ya, you look like a great lay, but nothing more than that. So you want to go f*ck?” Yes, I know conversations of this nature do occur; well most of the words not all, but it is not widely acceptable. Just as women separate men into quickies and hubbies men separate women for screwing and marrying. The two sexes just do it for different reasons. Women do it because they are: perusing a career, not emotionally attached right now, or some other excuse they use feel better about being a promiscuous woman. Men on the other hand separate women for a much simpler reason: you can’t turn a whore into a house wife; meaning whores are for whoring and women are for marring. Not that I like to agree with feminist, but we are simple creatures with simple ideas and more times than not there is nothing beyond or hiding inside the main idea.

        • i’m calling bullshit! i’m not a great looking girl and guess what, no men coming after me, sorry but they don’t want me. if its sooo easy for women then why can’t i get a regular looking guy, i don’t like abs thank you very much, to sleep with me.

    • Wait, what? Since when do women not care about how many partners a guy has had? I totally missed that memo. I mean, I might not care about an EXACT number, but I definitely care whether it is much higher or much lower than my number. I’m 35 and I’ve had 21 partners. Most of those were in my early 20s – I’m engaged now and planning my wedding with a lovely boy I’ve been dating for nearly 7 years now, so I’m not actively looking for partners anymore. But the two of us are pretty similar – we both spent our early 20s kinda sleeping around (but with a few more serious relationships in between) and then got into our late 20s and decided we were kinda done with that and were ready for something more long term. I feel really good that we’re well matched that way. I don’t know his EXACT number but I know it’s more than 15 and less than 30. (and since I hadn’t thought about it in years and am now kinda curious I probably will ask).

      I would feel REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE trying to form a long term relationship with someone who had less than 5 lifetime partners or more than 50. In the former case I’d feel like he was kindof a prude who placed too much emphasis on sex being “special”, wouldn’t have enough experience to know fun things to do with me, and would be intimidated by my higher level of experience. In the latter case, *I* would be intimidated by *his* higher level of experience, and I’d feel like he didn’t have time in there to experience ANY serious relationships or any length – I SO would not want to be someone’s first love at this point in my life.

  92. Jay Hammers says:

    My fiancee’s number was zero.

    A woman having a single partner greatly increases her chances of forming a healthy bond with a man.

    And sorry, but it would be very hard for me to respect a woman who slept around with every alpha she could find. It’s not a challenge. It’s not unique. It’s not cool. It’s not liberating. It’s shallow. It’s base. It’s not appealing to me.

    No one taught me this. It’s just what I’ve observed during my short life.

  93. Why do her numbers matter…….ummmmmmm DISEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You can’t be this stupid Hugo. This must be a prank. I have read a couple of your articles so far, and I am still waiting for any insight into a male mind at all.

    What are you doing writing about male articles. Please go back to your strengths, which I can only assume is a titled essay “My shame of having a penis, but being too scared to cut it off”.

  94. Don’t ask for The Number!

    What the author seems to be implying is that people who have sexual histories, will probably always have a bunch of secrets from each other… the longer the history, the more secrets.

  95. I can’t believe this post, or the thread, or that men or women in 2011 worry or even care about this stuff. “The number”?

    Clearly, if deciding on going into a longterm (or even for-life) relationship, there a lot of stuff to worry about. Compatibility, values, financial responsibility, ambition, goals, etc. etc. Big decision. But “the number” – somewhere around item 712 on the list of concerns. I see people say it’s a predictor for health, or infidelity, or whatnot. Really? Character is a predictor for that. Values. That’s where you want to look. If you’r staring at this number, you’re not seeing the person.

    • Jay Hammers says:

      “I see people say it’s a predictor for health, or infidelity, or whatnot. Really? Character is a predictor for that. Values. That’s where you want to look. If you’r staring at this number, you’re not seeing the person.”

      Um, the “number” is a very good predictor of character and values. One of the best, actually, right up there with “how is her relationship with her dad?”

  96. If you’re the kind of person who thinks marriage should come before sex, then of course it will matter. I know it’s not the most common thing, but ideally I’d marry a virgin, which by definition would mean she’d have had 0 sexual partners.

    That said, this isn’t a question I’d even ask until marriage became a serious possibility, and the main reason I’d ask it then is because of the possibility of STDs.

    On that note, if you’re not a virgin and expect your future wife (or husband for that matter) to be one you’re a hypocrite. Otherwise, I’m not sure why it would matter.

    • Jay Hammers says:

      “On that note, if you’re not a virgin and expect your future wife (or husband for that matter) to be one you’re a hypocrite.”

      Not true, as many men and women are looking for different things.

      Similarly, women are not hypocrites for desiring a man who makes more money than them. They are just women.

  97. Jay Hammers says:

    0… till she met me.

    And that’s exactly how it should be.

  98. What I said was how you apply your “theories” to the article as “head scratching”. You sure do love to twist others words! To me that says *you* are the *one* that is either deliberately and willfully misrepresentful on purpose in attempt to make your own points, OR you’re just plain obtuse.

  99. Actually, one of my boyfriends gave me hell for my past. I was verbally abused and it took a long time to recover from that. But I think what needs to be addressed in this article isn’t only that men should not worry about their girlfriend’s number so much, but also how to help them *stop caring* about that number when they do learn it and are unable to handle it.

    • But just because someone has had multiple sexual partners in the past means nothing about infidelity, unless they have cheated on a partner in the past.

      Women may be concerned about numbers too (which I don’t commend), but I’ve noticed men tend to have a larger reaction. That’s an observation I’ve gathered from friends as well as myself.

      I’m very well aware that most men don’t react the way my ex did, but I was showing that men can react badly to information on their girlfriend’s past. This was in no way a generalization.

      • When I say the words ‘stop caring’ and ‘unable to handle it’ I mean that in any reaction. In the article, the author says:

        ‘One friend of mine recounted to me in horror how her current boyfriend stopped one day in the middle of giving her oral sex to ask how his technique compared’

        This is in no way verbal abuse, but it is still an example of a man unable to handle his girlfriend’s past. Even stopping oral because you’re so paranoid that you’re girlfriend is comparing you to any other sex partner is easily considered a bad reaction.

        As to my second quote,

        I was giving an example of a *very* bad reaction with regards to my ex. It doesn’t take much to be able to assume that in general, reactions from men of a girlfriend’s past aren’t positive. I wasn’t generalizing that all men berate their girlfriends because of it, but that it is very possible they have bad reactions to their past.

  100. beautiful article…very important topic!

  101. No, none of your comments have a bit to do with anything I’ve said. You’re just using me as a platform to preach your personal agenda. Just as you do with many articles here on GMP.
    You’re on your own battle cry and your comments are based on your own insecurities, prejudices and negative attitudes while attempting to support it with bits and little chunks of data that don’t really do anything to prove the bigger reality.

    You lack any empathy for women. It’s not because you believe in “men rights” that I say this, it’s because whenever an article comes up that has to do with something a woman faces, you completely ignore it in favor of comparing it to how men suffer, or you use it as a soap box to preach about the evils of feminism and you suggest women aren’t able to think for themselves. You are unable to comprehend how both men and women can face different issues and that by talking about the one, doesn’t mean the other is being ignored.

    I don’t care about your personal battle against feminism. I’m here to discuss individual subjects as they are brought up. You’re hear to derail every singular article because of your own agenda. You are wasting everyone’s time with your derailment of the article. You make yourself into a character of yourself that can’t be taken seriously.

    • All you have to add is repetitive bs about how much you hate “quasi-religion feminism”. Tell us something we don’t know. You spew the same sentence over and over again. We get it, you don’t like feminism. How that applies to the article at hand is head scratching.

      Anytime an article comes up that’s geared to a human interest story about women, you break out in indignation, you try to turn it around to see how it applies directly to male issues, and you always have something to say about how feminism is the destruction of the world in relation to any article that’s about gender issues. You don’t give credit to women for anything, and you blame “feminism”, and women, for everything. Heck, in another thread that was geared to what men do and say about other women and how their daughters pick up on it, you could only talk about your wife and what you preceive to be her failures as a mother figure instead of some self relfection. But I guess you’re perfect and it’s only your wife that needs to make changes.

      I see The Good Man Project as a place that does it’s best to represent different viewpoints and show empathy on issues that concern men and also women, since so much of our interactions are geared to one another. I think Good Man Project is always asking “how can we be better aware, how can we be better men”. Not better men for *just* women. But better men for the good of themselves and their families so they can live fullfilled lives deep in their hearts.

      There are probably better sites for you that are geared to a similar agenda as yourself, such as those that speak out against alleged all encompassing “feminist agendas” where you would find stronger male support. Those might better suite your needs. But if not and you continue to post, you will cease telling me I don’t have a mind of my own and throwing emotionally strong words like “misogyny” around where they don’t apply.

  102. The baby she produces is HER child. If you love her, you love her child. Equally, if she chooses the possibility of pregnancy with a man she does not want a relationship with by not caring about contraception, she alone bears responsibility for her pregnancy, not him. She may abort it, she may bear it – but she has chosen responsibility that she cannot then shirk off to him to pay for her choice. If uninvolved father are put in a position of responsibility over the woman by paying for the children she chooses to have by them, then those fathers also have the right to avoid payment by forcing her to have an abortion.

  103. Rumspringa: “Erin- I didn’t advocate demeaning or degrading, I said that it’s not wrong for a man to judge. Judge, meaning “is this the kind of woman i want to be joined in marriage with.” You’re the one who brought up degrading.

    And by the way, women complain BITTERLY about not being able to find a McSteamy or a George Clooney to marry. Not a day goes by that we do not see some blog or article from a woman saying “No Good Men Left!””

    I think we are basically saying the same thing in regards to having the right to decide what you find an acceptable amount of bed partners to be. Although sometimes our own judgements make us miss out on oppurtunities too.

    I just take issue with the implication that women *only* want rich Geoge Clooney types. If that was true, no blue collar guy would ever be married and we know they do.

    I’ve gone out with all kinds of men Rumspringa: tall men, short men, fit men, fat men, financial wizes and starving artists alike. And I’ve turned down tall men, short men, fit men, fat men….yada yada yada..And I have been turned down *by* short men, fat men, tall men, fit men. To be honest, I think a woman is more likely to look for other qualities in a man in the beginning while a lot of guys do focus on looks. As long as a man has one strength, he’s in good shape. He could be physically strong, mentally strong or artistically strong. Different women are attracted to different strengths.

    Further, I do think many men want a committed relationships with someone they care for, but I also think men are more likely to play the field and be sure to make the woman know he is “just having fun”. Which might be why that “there are no good men left” mentality comes from. I’ve run into enough men that just “want to have fun” and “take it slow” to know that it’s not uncommon. And many of these guys were pretty blue collar. I want to have fun too! But I also want to know I’m more then just *fun*. I certainly don’t think there aren’t any good men left anymore then I think all the good ones are taken. But I do think men often project the image that they don’t want anything too serious right away. I don’t want to get married right away but I want to know we are both working to a mutual goal. And while men might want a committed relationship, on their adventure to meet that woman, they are fine with using other women to fill up the time with.

    Also, perhaps it’s only the really gorgeous women you’re talking about? I’m cute but I’m not gorgeous. I’ve been turned down by guys less fit then me, made less money and even had a couple kids. So maybe the type of women that are looking for George Clooney types are *insert your hot female celebrity favorite* here types themselves? Since men do tend to focus on looks more.

    Lastly, biology can helps us understand certain behaviors. But it’s not the *only* reason we do something. Or even the heathiest way to go about doing something. When people use pop culture biology to defend thought processes or actions, it’s really only one part of the picture. Often biology is so intricate and about balancing, that any biological “rationality” can be countered with something that makes sure one biological imperitive doesn’t completely dominate and rule over another. Because nature and biology are ultimately about balance. So while I think you have the right to pick a woman based on her numbers, I don’t think it’s a sound enough reason to justfiy actions based on it. Such as my example with women who need to find a man with the best genes AND is a good provider. And how that sometimes isn’t the same man for her situation.

    • I guess I think it’s somewhat of a contradiction to admit that someone chaste has the equal potential to be untrustworthy, but still use a partner’s numbers as a determent of character. I do believe that a big reason why men look down on women with high numbers is jealousy, competition and judgement. Men are pretty territorial.

      And yes, there are men that unfortunately are tricked into believing a child is theirs when they aren’t. But that’s not reason enough alone why numbers would matter when you said yourself that someone chaste has the probability of being perfidious too.

      I could be wrong but you seem to imply that because of the legal bias, and I agree there is a legal bias, men have a more important need to guard against infidelity. But if we stick to it in terms of resources and money, it stands to reason that a woman also needs to protect against infidelity if a man goes off and has children with another woman who would then have the potential to take away resources from her and her own children with him, vs. the other woman.

      “As far as women chasing the top alpha men, I don’t deny that different women like different things. Some women like artsy, some women like athletes, some women like thugs, some women like CEO types. And different physical characteristics can be attractive to women, too.”

      But I didn’t agree that women only chase the top alpha males, as defined in a stereotypical matter. Although it would be fun to ask women and men how they personally defined an alpha man and see the difference in opinion there. It usually seems like other men judge alpha men by their ability to sleep with many women. Other men pat each other on the back for sleeping with many women. But if you ask a woman? I think most women would judge an alpha man by his ability to lead, respect others and command respect.

      All a man needs is a strength and/or passion in one area of his life. He doesn’t need to be rich, handsome, tall, dark, physically fit and a host of other factors in one package as seems to be the implication. He just needs one aspect of strength in his life that shows some passion and strength. He doesn’t have to be a CEO, he could be a chef. He doesn’t need to be an athlete, he could spend his weekends with disabled children. And I think if you’re honest, men don’t work that much differently. They look for aspects in women that reflect femininity right? Just because men don’t want “alpha” women, doesn’t mean their criteria in judging woman is more fair. Which is what I was trying to point out with the examples of my personal dating life. I’ve rejected and I’ve been rejected and the men I’ve been rejected by haven’t been all been CEOs types. They’ve been regular guys. Regular guys that have their Maxim magazines and drool over 20 year old starlets or super models.

      “But I think women have a huge blind spot on this issue. Women, as a whole, do not want nice guys focused on committed relationships. They want the dominant man with lots of options to desire commitment with them.”

      And sometimes, men as a whole, want the girl with the best body and face. And she might not be that nice but they stick with it because they feel better with her on their arm. This also goes back to how we each define “dominant”. Sleeping with a lot of women and playing the field? Because if it was between Derek Jeter or A-Rod who are both notorious for their bad boy behavior vs. Jorge Posada who clearly is very dedicated to his family, I consider the alpha male Jorge Posada.

      “The dating landscape is littered with the broken hearts of men who want a committed and mutually beneficial relationship. On the other hand, the beds of dominant men unwilling to commit are filled nightly with women of every kind. This is absolutely undeniable by anyone who is even trying to be honest.”

      Oh I do not deny that your statement above is partially correct! You just haven’t taken the time to consider the broken hearts of women who wanted committed and mutually beneficial relationships too! I am NOT an anomaly. My experiences with men, where I’ve been rejected by regular guys, isn’t a once in a lifetime event. This happens to regular women all the time. And it’s not just all from “bad boys”.

      “Men are VILIFIED by women for supposedly being all about looks, yet women will deny, deny, deny, their gender’s fixation on dominant, emotionally unavailable men.”

      I think that’s a completely unfair statement. I don’t think women deny that they are attracted to strength or leadership qualities in a man. And I know plenty of men that want to be head of the house that I think these desire compliment each other. It’s this perception that women only like jerks that’s harmful to men AND women. I also dislike how *you’ve* attempted to place men in the victim table because women *know* looks are important to men while at the same time vilifying and twisting women’s desires to something it isn’t. Just because women like strength and character in a man doesn’t mean she wants to be emotionally abused. You don’t like that men are “vilified” for making looks important in a woman but you vilify women based on their own criteria. So what are you saying? That the way men judge women is better? Smarter? More worthy? More noble? Women are the only romantically messed up ones? And women cause men to do things they wouldn’t do..so it’s really women’s fault?

      “It’s sad, really. I spent my teen age years and part of my 20′s being a nice, chivalrous, commitment-minded creative guy. I could not get a woman, ANY woman, to even acknowledge i existed. Now I am cold, emotionally unavailable, and diametrically opposed to commitment and I can get women any time i want. The ONLY thing that’s changed about me over the years is that I replaced “nice and chivalrous” with “emotionally unavailable asshole” and the women can’t get enough. Frankly, I recommend every man do the same. And lest someone portray me as dating stupid bimbos, I’m only interested in women with noteworthy creative or intellectual talents.”

      Uggg, Thanks for the stereotypical gender put down and exercising “stupid bimbos”. I really really hate the word “bimbo”. No woman is a bimbo even if she’s not the smartest girl in the world. Even more transparent is I don’t remember you using bad words to describe men in your post, just women.

      So lets see, instead of dating women that are emotionally unsound, you now date women that are noteworthy of creative and intellectual talents and you behave coldly toward them so you can sleep with them. And you think you’re the healthy one.

      Curiously, what age women do you date now?

      • Rumspringa: “This is not an equal comparison. A man who impregnates his mistress is responsible for child support from that child, and will lose his shirt in any divorce from his wife. A woman who cuckolds her husband will enjoy 18 years of child support enforced by law, unless a man discovers the lie within a year (or so) after the baby’s birth.”

        I am not arguing that the court system isn’t fair to men. It’s not. My dad’s best friend was taken for everything he had from his ex and what she did to him was just shitty. Which is why he is still my Uncle B and she is just “M”.

        I just think that a woman has much to loose too when a man steps out on her and father’s a child with another woman. She looses out on resources that he originally promised to her. Not to mention the amount of men that completely skip out on their financial obligations to a woman on a child that is infact his. A man can father 10 different children with 10 different woman but each of those woman are strictly responsible for the well being of that child.

        Again, I don’t deny that the court system isn’t fair to men. That totally happens and it’s not fair. But women face their own issues too.

        Rumspringa: “That’s not how most men define Alpha. The way most men define it, is a self-centered and dominant man with the ability to get most of what he wants out of a situation. As a by-product, he attracts women.”

        Well I am going to call you out on this because you mentioned how alpha men as you define it end up with many more bed partners. So yeah, you clearly partially define an alpha man by how many women he can get in bed. You defined a man’s worth by his sexual exploitations. You didn’t say you had more long lasting relationships (do you?. I suspect even if you do have more long lasting relationships they all pretty much eventually end. Am I wrong?). You specifically said there were more women in your bed. So if that’s what is important to you, then good for you. Use all the women you want and don’t wonder why they don’t think there aren’t any good men left.

        Rumspringa: “Great. I’ll tell that to the hundreds of thousands of dateless men who are deeply passionate and talented about some artistic or intellectual pursuit.”

        Okay, sounds good. Now lets think of what we can tell the hundreds of thousands dateless women who are also deeply passionate and talented how they can attract a man? Or how about all the women whose husbands leave them for younger versions. It’s not a stereotype for nothing. Or not even husbands that leave but men in their 30s and 40s who don’t date their peers and instead date 20 year olds. What advice should we give those women?

        As I said before, I’ve been rejected and I’ve rejected men. It’s a two way street. And the men that rejected me weren’t just rich types.

        “Just so you know, I’ve always been passionate about art & philosophy and am a well-regarded professional writer. No women cared about any of that until I started manifesting my inner asshole.”

        And most men don’t care that a woman has a reasonable career if her body isn’t hot.
        The secret men don’t figure out that it’s not about being an asshole. Women don’t want nice guys. And they don’t want bad boys either. They want good men. There are miles and miles of difference between “nice guys” (doormats who sometimes aren’t even that nice), bad boys (only care about themselves) and good man (express leadership qualities and command respect without having to act a certain way to attract female companionship). And that’s the big secret too many men can’t figure out. Good men aren’t “safe” all the time. They have passion in their life, they command respect, but they don’t have to act like jerks to get there. Nice guys supplicate and that wouldn’t be attractive to anyone. Bad boys take the easy way out and use and throw away. I have no doubt that enough women respond to the “bad boy” persona because he puts on face that he is an alpha man, stealing qualities true alpha men have to manipulate a woman to be with him. So she, being deceived by what she preceives are “good man “ qualities falls for it because in all honesty, he wants her too. But then when that all comes crashing and burning down, you’re left with another woman that had a bad experience with a man. Hence the “ there are no good men left” comments.

        So you want to act like an asshole? Okay. But take responsibility for taking the easy way out to manipulate women into bed. NO woman forced you to act a certain way. You decided to act that way because you haven’t figured out the secret that all women want. All women want a “Good Man”. And being a good man is 10x harder then just being a “nice guy” or “asshole”.

        “True, they don’t deny that. But they do engage in what is known as a “halo effect” which is ascribing positive qualities to a man they’re sexually attracted to. This is why dominant asshole thugs are seen as “strong leaders” by women. Incarcerated male serial killers get bags and bags of love letters from women. Sometimes men project a halo effect on women too, btw.”

        Do you think emotionally sound women are sending letters to serial killers? I never sent a letter to a serial killer. My mother never has. Infact, I never heard one woman in all my life say a serial killer was attractive. Do you really want to even date women that send serial killers letters? I have no doubt there are women that do. But you act like this is how most women are and that’s really jacked. And even if most women were like that (which they aren’t), why would you even want to be with those type of women?

        Although I agree that when we are attracted to someone we have a blind spot to other qualities of them that aren’t good. For men and women.

        Look at how many men lust after Kim Kradashian. What has she contributed to society other then sex appeal? She is a beautiful woman but that’s about it. And how many men pine over her? Enough that we know men don’t place a great stresser on a woman’s heart anymore then a woman might when it comes to a man.

        “Then why do they chase emotionally abusive men, and kick nice ones to the curb?”
        Well I think there are several reasons this happens. Women aren’t perfect and are subject to their own experiences growing up or in life that left them with some emotional issues, lack of self confidence..etc etc. A woman could have an awesome career and still not be totally emotionally well. I think too many women want to be loved over being respected first. And while she might want respect, she will more readily sacrifice it in order to be loved. Men aren’t the same in that regard because men view love AS respect. If a woman doesn’t respect him he can’t feel loved.

        Do you even know how many men will chase crazy women around as long as she is hot enough? We all know in our culture that a hot woman can get away with SO much more then an average girl. Guys will let her do much more then just an average one. This phenonomon you seem to think only applies to men doesn’t.

        “No, I’m saying that men who behave nobly towards women lose in today’s dating market unless they also happen to be really good looking. Kindness and chivalry from a man of average (or below) attractiveness gets him labeled “creepy” or “just a friend” by women.”

        And really sweet average girls loose too. Heck, they might have a boyfriend but if that boyfriend spends all day looking at Maxim and pornstars she gets the message well enough that she is average compared to what her boyfriend really wants. Hate to tell you but a woman can be very sweet and still get stomped on , just like a man can. I know that doesn’t fit into your pattern of male suffrage but it happens a lot more then you know.

        And I would agree that a man that acts too kind *IN THE BEGINNING* might be labeled “creepy”. Because sometimes men supplicate too much just to get into a girls pants. That doesn’t mean he’s a nice guy though. There is a balance. I’ve had guys bring me flowers on the first date and while the gesture was nice, it’s not going to impress or turn me on like it did for women in the 1950s. Because at that point in the relationship, I don’t know if the gesture is sincere or if he is just giving them to me to sleep with me. Now if I had a husband and he brought me flowers, that would totally be awesome and different. Men today aren’t always motivated about respecting and being nice to women.

        “Fair enough. But when I behaved nobly towards women, I got ignored, taken advantage of, and kicked to the curb. Maybe if “good men” got positive reinforcement from women, they wouldn’t go over to the dark side like I have.”

        And I’ve been really sweet to guys and gotten nowhere too. Maybe I shoud buy some implants and soup myself up and change myself to fit more into what a man wants.

        Maybe if more men spent time being truly good men, and not only pretending to be good men via the “dark side”, maybe there would be more of a positive reinforcement. I can’t stress this enough. For women, there are big big big differences between “nice guys”, “good men” and “bad boys”. I challenge you to ask your female friends about this vary subject. I also challenge you to be a “good man” with *some* of the qualities of a alpha man and see what happens.

        “I’m in my early thirties and I tend to date women who are my age or a few years younger. Occasionally I’ll date older women or younger women, but no younger than 24 or so.”

        Okay well I was just curious. Thanks for sharing.

  104. sounds to me that most of the people responding to this post are all seeking the same thing (equity) but just fighting for it from different sides of the fence.

    Could it be possible that both women and men are equally responsible for the injustices that are inflicted upon both sexes?

    As a woman, I can relate to the fact that SOMETIMES womens ‘numbers’ are used as an almost moral gauge to determine how slutty she really is and what kind of potential long term partner she could be. To be honest, I have felt that more frequently from women than from men although it has occured on both sides of the fence. To me, this is simply a reflection on the individuals character, whether they are male or female. and has little to do with gender representation. If a person wants to believe that a one night stand had years ago during a low part of a person’s life is reflective of their morals and standards in general – than so be it. They would not be the kind of person that I would personally choose to associate with – and living according to my values is my responsibility – not theirs.

    What saddens me a little is that no air time was given to the fact that women treat men equally as unfairly when it comes to knowing ‘numbers’. Objectively, I would have liked to have read about how this scenario plays out on both ends. What about the women who ridicule the men that don’t have enough notches on their belt – or who are still virgins? What about the women who, upon knowing their partners number, become insecure and spiteful? Or…what about the men and women who really don’t care about the number itself?

    I think that whatever it is that motivates us to cast judgement on another persons experiences is largely an internal dynamic. It inevitably says more about the person casting judgement than it does the person on the receiving end.

    I don’t think this is about gender at all. I think it is about taking personal responsibility and being sexually respectful. It would have been nice to see an article that reflects just that.

    • @Rosalie

      “What saddens me a little is that no air time was given to the fact that women treat men equally as unfairly when it comes to knowing ‘numbers’ …”

      If more feminists understood what you understand, we could begin solving problems together.

      How did feminism change from a movement that demanded equality and respect for women, into a hate movement determined to dehumanize, humiliate, and enslave boys and men?

      How did women loose control of their own movement? Was it fear of criticising their own? Was it apathy? Was it greed? Was it fear?

      • Feminism didn’t change that way. It changed like Communism did under Stalin (well depicted in ‘Animal Farm’) from a movement to change society and men to accept the personal values hat had been relegated to women reducing men to mere ‘economic units’ expected to suppress personal family commitment as only “women’s stuff”, into equals in the home while women shared equally in traditional “men’s stuff” but reduced it from the extremes of aggression it had become (for economic reasons) and made ‘work’ more relevant to providing what people actually wanted.

        That was a big threat to status quo of the time and even a lot of women felt they should subscribe to the new ideals felt uncomfortable with men treating them as equals instead of the ‘tender gender’ protected from treatment, responsibility and sexual recognition, and believed everything traditional of men superior to everything traditional of women. They were brought up to feel Female inferior and Male unquestionably superior with a childish idea of Men as ‘dominators’ able to force their will wherever they want without restraint.

        These are modern ‘Feminists’. They want the privilege they imagine men gave women before equality of the sexes, they regard sexual relations as always a form of rape where the sexless female ‘submits’ to the demanding male, they regard all things traditionally ‘female’ as inferior to ‘male’. So they serve very nicely to restore conservative ideals of masculine supremacy and force them on women as well to suppress the older female criticism of conservative ‘masculinity’.

        Feminist 1970 – anti-war, anti-capitalist, as good as any man whether she behaves (and dresses) like him or not, and expecting men she wants to know to learn and appreciate traditionally women’s values and concerns as equal, taking him in sex as an equal – and probably a majority.

        Feminist 2011 – demanding to fly combat missions and a seat on the board, telling women that behaving or dressing any different from stereotypes that most men have liberated themselves from makes them inferior to men, and anything traditionally associated with women that ‘male chauvinists’ despised as ‘inferior’ for men must be inferior for women too, a Lesbian defining men as so dominant that sex can only make women traditionally subservient ‘objects’ – and a rarity never met outside of the Internet.

        Then, a woman would have been proud to say “I’m a feminist and I’ll screw any man I feel like and have no problem doing any job he would, as long as he has no problem doing any job I would”.

        Today, a woman regards ‘feminist’ as one the most demeaning insult possible and takes it mean “Terrified of sex and relationship with men in general, demanding the same job title and pay as a man while whining ‘female inability’ to avoid actually doing the same work, and screaming that if he does not regard traditional women’s preoccupations as utterly beneath him, then he is a ‘misogynist’ trying to ‘force women back into the kitchen’ even though that’s where he prefers to be. Feminism is the reaction against sexual equality of ‘girlies’ longing to be Marilyn Monroe and ‘Male Chauvinists’ both combined. It is how the Establishment defused the real threat that ‘liberated’ women posed to it.

    • Uncle Woofie says:

      I’m a newbie to this site, which should explain my interest in commenting onna posting that has several months “age” on it.

      I gave Miss Rosalie (forgive me, but I have jus’ enough “Southern Gentleman” in me to use such a courtly salutation) a thumbs up on her comments if for no other reason than the 2nd sentence in her response to Mr. Schwyzer’s excellent article that I was so glad I found & also consider a shining example of the worth of “The Good Men Project”:

      “Could it be possible that both women and men are equally responsible for the injustices that are inflicted upon both sexes?”

      Here’s the wind-up & pitch of my two-cents worth concerning this subject:

      Sexual inadequacies (much like that Ole Debbil desperation) can haunt both genders’ behavior patterns to a degree that I’m amazed that Stephen King himself hasn’t based an entire novel on that premise alone…!

      First off, so much of even today’s standard sexual morays are still haunted by one central fact:

      The result of sex was (is) usually that women get pregnant. Bear with me as I explain why it’s of the utmost importance that I reiterated something so painfully obvious in discussing this topic, particularly the “was (is)” part…

      In May 2011, we all observed the passing of the 50th anniversary of the world’s first dependable birth-control pill. While it should be plain to one and all as to why this fact is an important footnote in discussion of “The Numbers Game”, this needs to be examined. Decades ago, (as in late teens to early twenties) I had reached the conclusion that this fact alone not only jump-started the sexual revolution as we all now call it, but permanently altered the scorecard used in “The Numbers Game” not to mention an assorted grab-bag of plusses & minuses. Much like the central theme in Kevin Smith’s “Chasing Amy” (a movie that by the time it was over, I found NO character in it I was willing to either root for or be sympathetic toward, even though I thought it was a pretty decent movie) much of the film’s drama revolved around “The Numbers Game” trap that Ben Affleck’s character fell victim. All of this adds up to the odds being that a man’s female sexual partner whether she be a “friend with benefits” or girl-friend, or spouse, is far more likely to have many notches in her Numbers Game scorecard than you do, as her male bed-partner. This is NOT a left-handed attempt at some sad allusion to accusing all (or even some) women of being “sluts” or “whores,” but a simple statement of likely fact due to the liberation of feminine sexuality from the true-life specter of unwanted pregnancy. A specter, I might add, that exists to this day. Mix this in with the never-ending pursuit/pursued nature of our shared sexuality as men & women, & you can see why I came up with this concept.

      My advice to ALL of us regardless of gender, is that trite-but-true clichéd statement:

      Deal with it.

      Now, having invoked dealing with it, I’ll turn around and confess that at certain times in my life (even after I reached the preceding conclusions) I’ve had to heed my own advice for reasons of my own sanity. This explains why I can sympathize with any male or female who in a moment of emotional vulnerability brought on by either a break-up or a deep rift in an ongoing relationship, or especially loneliness, (not to mention peer pressures) find themselves haunted by their standing in “The Numbers Game”. This can rear its vile head in even simple, usually fun, dishing that either sex has in female OR male exclusive conversations on this subject. In female exclusive conversation, it can lead to “slut-shaming”; in male exclusive conversation it can lead to vicious sarcasm inflicted on some poor slob if his male peer group decides his “scorecard” doesn’t measure up. This brings us right back to:

      “Could it be possible that both women and men are equally responsible for the injustices that are inflicted upon both sexes?”

      Miss Rosalie, you are damn SKIPPY it’s possible…and TRUE.

      However, fear not good people…no matter how (particularly if you’re suffering from male numerical inadequacies, or a woman stung by the outrageous slings & arrows of being “slut-shamed”) the aforementioned observations have mutated “The Numbers Game” into an even more intensive pain-inna-ass. Honesty & compassion between you & your paramour can overcome “The Numbers Game’s” damaging effects. If not, the worst that happens is that you’ve both received a wake-up call that your relationship needs more work than you both previously thought. I also feel that it is emotionally & intellectually foolish to simply claim to ignore it. If you really CAN “ignore” it…well, good for you, I just hope you’re being honest with yourself when you proclaim how little it matters. If not, I can guarantee The Numbers Game will bite you on your psyche’s ass, leaving permanent teeth-marks.

      Next comes something even more important in the plus column…I feel proud to say that I was on hand to watch the well-deserved decline of the importance of the “virginity factor” where it concerned the women men chose to marry. The presence of reliable oral contraceptives helped to end this miserable social paradigm. To my mind, this silliness is one of many reasons for my life-long questioning & general distrust of organized religion, the main trafficker in that particular brand of nonsense. A truth I live by is that I have NO business requiring virginity out of former girl-friends or my wife of 32 years since I had no intent of living up to the dubious “quality” we all used to be told pre-marital virginity was supposed to represent. I’ve also felt like fears of so-called “illegitimate” pregnancies are at the root of the “virginity factor’s” importance for so long. If the rabid forces of the “anti-choice” crowd were being honest, paranoia over teen pregnancy is the true motivation of their “Promise Ring” movement and little else, I don’t care how many bible verses they invoke about being “pure & chaste”.

      So where does these ruminations I’ve invoked leave us all as we strive to be good human beings regardless of gender? It leaves us relying on trust in both ourselves & those we care for & share a bed with. It leaves us relying on the previously mentioned honesty & compassion as our chief weapons to win this (at times) awful obsession with “The Numbers Game”. It also helps to know how we got to this point (or at least think about it, which is what I had hoped to open up with what I’ve had to say).

      Who knows, if we keep alla this in mind, we may ALL wind up winning “The Numbers Game” in spite of ourselves.

  105. Hmmm, I’ve never questioned my wife or any prior partners about their “number” I guess I didn’t get that memo. Is someone now going to come and revoke my “guy card”?

    I have, however, disclosed my own number to partners who asked. Why they desperately needed to know is beyond me, but ummm, okay. While SOME other men might think high numbers are some great accomplishment for men while treating women like sluts for also having many partners, there are also SOME women who will treat a man like garbage for the very same thing, without bothering to even care about the circumstances and motivations.

    Forgive me for doing the same thing that SOME female rape survivors also do while trying to take back control – sexual grieving via promiscuity. After being raped, my own period of promiscuity was fortunately brief enough at 2 years. However, I took a great deal of dangerous risks, such as sleeping with married women (who initiated the encounters), etc. I’ve judged myself enough for this, but you’d be surprised how many women see fit to use the same as a reason to commit secondary wounding against rape survivors, not to mention knuckle-dragging alpha male wannabes.

  106. It would be fair to do as you propose: both men and women would evaluate the fitness of possible future partners based on their past behavior.

    It would also be fair if neither men nor women did this.

    Either way works for me. What is not fair is the author’s thesis: men who evaluate women based on their “number” are rage filled pigs, but women who do the same are just being prudent. Typical social double standard.

    • Yeah Rumspringa, because men that are mechanics, plumbers, landscapers, Red Lobster waiters or janitors never ever ever get married or have girlfriends. The only men in the world that ever have girlfriends or wives are doctors and CEOs. *insert sarcasm here*.

      You have the right to desire any number of qualities in a partner, bed partners numbers or not. But no man has the right to demean or degrade women just because he doesn’t like her numbers. Men often use name calling to shame women into behaving in ways that best benefits a man.

      Do you know there is a biological need for a woman to both find a mate with the best genes AND a mate that will be the best provider. Sometimes this isn’t the same man. So biologically it’s in her best interest to find both of these aspects even if they come from different men. But morally it’s pretty disgusting to have one man’s off spring while letting another man take on as provider. Argue “biology” all you want but many other factors are always at play. Just because it’s biologically sound for a woman to find both a mate with good genes AND a good provider, even if these aspects don’t come from the same man, doesn’t mean that the way she goes about to accomplish these biological goals are ultimately that healthy.

      I don’t have anything against men that want a partner with low numbers. But I sure dislike arguments about “biology”. Usually because biology is SO much more complicated then the pop culture biology we are fed and use to justify our actions for.

    • Rumspringa, I understand that you were trying to make an “oh yeah? well bitches suck too” kind of comment, but….I don’t know how to tell you this, you’re actually saying something feminists agree with. In a sexist world, where women aren’t supposed to make more money than their husbands or have a more prestigious career (emasculating, ladies!), and a woman’s status emanates from her husband – of course a woman is going to judge a potential mate on his earning capacity and prestige, just as you would judge a potential employer on those criteria.

      • Mythago

        Can you please explain Gloria Steinem?
        She made quite the decent career on her own, even touted marriage as a patriarchal trap designed to enslave women. Seems, when she found the right billionaire she had no problem accepting that same institution. So I would say that feminists don’t seem to have that big a problem with women marrying up.

  107. Great post. Can’t believe some of the commentary here from some of the clueless men.

    Just so you know, I’m posting under a pseudonym. This is true, though:

    One key thing is that a lot of people go through a brief stage of having a lot of partners. I’m 32, and I’ve had sex with 38 guys in my life. (Sex defined as heterosexual intercourse, the number is hgihter if you want to count other things.) But 33 of those were guys I slept with when I was a wild child in college. I had slept with two guys before coming to college and then have only slept with three guys (including my husband) in the ten years since I graduated.

    My husband asked my number when we were dating, and I told him. His number is lower than mine (26), but he had spaced those out over much more time. The point is, that it’s possible to get a high number in a brief period because of a phase you’re going through. It says very little about who you will end up being.

    We’ve been married five faithful years with our second child on the way.

    • You still don’t get it. Just examine the title “Why Does It Matter How Many Partners She’s Had?”

      SHE.

      Left unsaid is, it is perfectly OK for women to consider the number of partners HE has had.

      I don’t care what my wife’s “number” is. I never asked. Mine is 4 — or 5 if you count non-consensual encounters. Many women consider that a problem — any man with such a “low” number must have something wrong with him.

      Double standards, as usual.

      • AntZ,

        “Many women consider that a problem — any man with such a “low” number must have something wrong with him.”

        Some women…Not all women. You are married, so it does’t seem to apply to your wife and there are women who it would not matter too.

        • “Hey, has anyone else noticed that the OP on another post talks about mutilating his penis so he could give his wife “something new”?”

          Is this on his website? I read there sporadically given time limitations, so if it is posted there, I’ve never seen it. I doubt I would understand the behavior behind it either, but I haven’t read the post either.

        • @Karen

          I was not criticising women. I was criticising a one-sided article that addresses men who discriminate against women, while excusing women who discriminate against men in exactly the same way. Even the title is discriminatory.

          In a world where the problems and suffering of women are endlessly hyped while the problems and suffering of men are invisible, this is just more of the same. Sexist, misandrist, anti-male propaganda, which has no place on “the good man project.”

          When is “the good man project” going to address the problems of men? Men have a virtual monopoly on suffering and misery. Men are the vast majority of murder victims, suicide victims, prison inmates, drug addicts, homeless, insane, HS dropouts, assault victims — the list goes on forever, ending with the biggest item of all: men are 95% of the victims of biased family courts that presume that all women are fit parents and all men are unfit.

          • Where does the article say “But hey, guys, if she wants to judge you based on your number, that’s perfectly all right”?

        • I hope that my observations are skewed and that it is not a fact. But in my experience most women consider men with a low number problematic.
          One reason is that they lack experience and thus do not know how to satisfy a woman.
          Another is that since everyone gets laid from time to time the man with the low number must be defective. So I would say, ‘the number’ works both ways. All though it seems that this is only a problem when women are afflicted.

      • You’re right, AntZ – it’s totally unconscionable for Hugo to have omitted gay men like that.

        See, perhaps I got lost on my way to the wiki here, but I was under the impression this was the Good Men Project: that the author was talking to, and about, men, and not addressing women. (Anecdotally, I’ve rarely heard of a woman caring about “the number”. I’m sure they exist, but part of the cultural double standard is that it’s not only considered normal, but expected, for men to sleep around.)

        Regarding your last paragraph, I’m pretty sure the project takes submissions from anyone, and it would be great if you contributed to the discussion on those issues.

  108. @MitchellAndr says:

    I don’t think guys count their or their lovers activities.

    I think only bad insecure lovers do.

    • I agree. Knowing how your partner behaved in the past matters, but the actual number? And how are you going to react if she says “I lost count”? 😉

  109. Tying up the loose ends:
    1) I think people inadvertently use the words average, mean and median as synonyms. They are not. It is distinctively possible for the men who are having a ton of sex to drag up the median number.

    2) One of the biggest reasons behind the double standard of numerous sex partners is that it’s easier for women. A) An average-looking woman who just wanted a good roger-ing could go to a club (likely get in for free and have a certain % of her beverages paid for, if she so chose) and go home with a fellow. B) Even a good-looking guy has to put in some work (unless he lucks into meeting this jackpot). C) A gal, if she’s feeling a little freaky-deaky, can take on several dudes in a night and even Dave Navarro could probably only bust out a small handful in a 12-hour period.

    3) Outside of the inevitable comparisons about sexual process (re: girth), one of the worries, for a fellow, about a lady with a lot of partners is that she may be incredibly hard to please or looking for something perfect. A lot of sex partners COULD mean a lot of boyfriends. And, if she’s cool enough for you to date, she could have dated a lot of other cool dudes and given them the old heave-high. The inadequacy could be global, not just between the sheet (or in the shower, if you’re lucky). Conversely, if she’s dated a bunch of douchers, it’s possible that she’s continuing that trend with us.

    4) Having multiple one-night stands could mean personality problems (re: daddy went away issues). If done, compulsively, probably something is up. But you can likely say the same about any compulsion. And, frankly, I’ve never been able to get a firm grasp on what determines character. Is it genetic? Is it learned? Is it a function of willpower? Is willpower genetic or learned? If I’m nice to people, loyal to a fault, generally tell the truth, pay my taxes, give to charity, help people move but sort of enjoy sex with multiple partners, do I have a low character? I agree that it’s probably a good idea to wait to have sex with someone. The bio-chemical-emotional aspect of PintoV is not to be under-estimated. Biochemically, it likely hits women harder but that could just be anecdotal evidence. Plenty of ladies have had some killer sex with a guy who is swoll (slang for muscular) but regret developing feelings for him because that swoll is just a physical manifestation of his narcissism. And lots of dudes lament the nights of great sex they’ve had with “fun” chicks because they had to move or change a phone number because she’s batshit crazy.

    5) There’s a theory somewhere that too many different wangs will wear out a lady’s business parts. Is it crazy? Yes. Do you want to take the chance that it’s true?

    6) There’s a weird, reptilian part of us that assume that a woman with many partners will have had many babies that could take the resources necessary for your offspring.

    7) Most of us are trying our best and our insecurities, prejudices and misconceptions blow certain things out of proportion. It’s seldom that someone is out to bamboozle or harm us (intentionally). To paraphrase Hugo, it would be colossal bummer if the love of your life’s number were to grow after you’re added to the tally.

    • No, Tom, “it” is not easier for women, if by “it” you mean, finding a sexual partner who you are attracted to and feel safe going home with, intending to have a good time. Any man who is just looking for something slippery can find that, too.

      The thought processes you mention are probably pretty common, but there’s still all pretty stupid, and all based in the idea that sex is a) degrading to women and b) a competition between men – that is, between you and every other man she’s had sex with. Does that really sounds like a healthy attitude, or one you’d enjoy inflicting on your partner?

      • I agree with your comments mythago. I have to add that I found number 5 particularly humours. Trying to “scare” women into not having many sex partners for fear of wearing out her lady parts? That sounds like the old wives tales parents use to tell their son’s about masturbation to scare them into not playing with themselves.

        • I I would say the old wives tale regarding masturbation had to do with puritanical beliefs based on Bible passages and misunderstanding.

          Comments telling women that they shouldn’t practice too much sex because it destroys their lady parts is oppression of women sexuality. Just as old wives tales of parents telling their sons not to masturbate for fear of it falling off was oppression of male sexuality. Lets be intellectually honest and admit that both gender’s play their games in trying to control the other’s sexuality. Sometimes these mechanisms are for the good of society. Sometimes it’s good that both men and women have to operate under certain rules to make themselves more desirable to the other gender because it makes us better partners when we have to compromise. But sometimes it’s unhealthy and purposely misleading to our personal sexuality. And if men really want us to believe that too much sex wears out our bits so why would we even risk it as Tom suggest? Then he just gave women another excuse not to have too much sex with their own husbands or boyfriends either. Tom and his suggestion is shooting himself in the foot with that one.

        • Old wives’ tales? it sounds more like the kind of things ignorant teenagers sit around and tell one another about sex to convince one another they’re more experience than they really are.

      • I couldn’t have said it better myself, Erin!

      • “No, Tom, “it” is not easier for women, if by “it” you mean, finding a sexual partner who you are attracted to and feel safe going home with, intending to have a good time. Any man who is just looking for something slippery can find that, too.”
        I’d imagine it’s much easier, on average, for a woman, whereas an equivalent man would need several times as much effort for anything close to the same result.

        This is another one of those things they really should test, actually…

      • “It” isn’t a lot easier for women, but many men don’t want to admit that for some reason. I guess they don’t talk to many women, or they’d have heard the frustration of the Plain Jane who gets treated like furniture.

        Anyone who is simply looking for something warm and wobbly can get some. When you start imposing standards – like “someone I find attractive” or “somebody who appears to be interested in me other than as a kind of animated sex toy”, then the pool gets smaller.

  110. Antz: “I did not act like you purposely fabricated your data. I plainly sated it in no uncertain terms. I stand by my statement.

    AntZ, you post under two different names then? AlexNY and AntZ?

    At this point, you’re purposefully being belligerent and petty with your own personal ill intent.

    Stand by your statement all you want despite it’s wrongness. I’ve said what I needed to say. I am smart enough ,and I think other posters are smart enough, to see the sincerity in my comments.

    I’m glad you pointed out my incorrect math. And I happily admitted that I was the wrong one when I tried to mathematically figure it out. The only way I am going to grow as a person is if I can admit when I’m wrong and learn from it. But for you to sit there and maliciously act like I purposely lied, after I admitted my mistake, that’s just plain deceitful, petty and mean spirited. The big difference between yourself and me Antz, or AlexNY, is that I can admit when I was wrong and you can’t. I think you’re a person that is so deeply buried in their own anger, hurt and pain; that there isn’t much more room for graciousness or understanding.

  111. All of the above is probably true, but I’d like to add another perspective.. It is my impression that it may be instinctive for males to prefer to invest all their child rearing resources in the success of their own genetic offspring. This, of course. would be only one of many instinctive ‘force vectors’ that yield final behavioral preferences. Child adoption is a behavior to aid the larger gene pool when direct descendants are recognized to be a very low possibility. Even pet care aids the even wider gene pool. (pet owners prefer puppies over tarantulas.)

  112. The number of men a woman has been with has absolutely nothing to do with her chances of being faithful, for those here who seem so sure it does. The almighty penis isn’t so irresistible that we can’t control ourselves when a fresh one comes along. There are many, many reasons why a woman might have higher numbers. Being too busy for a long term relationship, serial monogamy, liking sex but also liking her freedom, being EVEN MORE selective about who she’s going to settle down with, as opposed to sleep with, just off the top of my head. Many of us with high numbers want more out of life than the white picket fence and 2.5 kids, but we aren’t going to be nuns until we find Mr. Right. If anything, when we decide to settle down with a man he can be pretty sure that he checks all the right boxes because we know what’s out there.

    A better question to ask is how many partners your partner (goes for men and women) has cheated on, but good luck getting anything other than “none” out of them.

    • Thanks for the clarification... says:

      No, nothing about what she said was irrational. And even if someone judges someone else by their past actions…. the only past action that would be relevant is if the person cheated on someone before.

      • Well you’ll be happy to know that I’m adamantly CF, so paternity fraud would never have entered the picture. And a number says very little about past behavior without context, which is why “the number” is irrational. I just so happen to be one of those women who likes sex but likes freedom as well. It’s the very rare man who can handle a long term relationship with a woman who A: is independent B: is intelligent and C: expects 50% representation in the relationship. Throw on top of that not wanting kids and you’ve got a recipe for single womanhood. (Not to mention mutual attraction)

        In my 43 years I’ve met 2 men that qualified. The first I was married to for ten years and we parted as friends. As a matter of fact I still do freelance work for the company that he runs. The second is my current boyfriend who, BTW, isn’t the least bit threatened by my friendship with my ex nor my high number. He’s never even asked but he knows I’m sexually experienced. It just doesn’t matter. That’s where the viewing each other as equals comes in. Until you can do this you will be locked in an “arms race” with potential partners.

        • I’m not at all confused. Women with high numbers of sexual partners are a pretty new thing, as the risk/cost of pregnancy has only been reduced in recent history. What you’re referring to is the “cuckold”, which refers to a woman conceiving with a man other than her husband then fooling the man into raising and supporting the offspring. Lest we overlook it, women have been historically viewed as property, or chattel. It’s about ownership. The slut-shaming has nothing to do with the woman being a cheater. The implication is that she’s “dirty” or “used”. Men want “value for their money”, the “new car smell”, if you will.

    • By “womaniser” does she mean that you have had a certain number of partners? Or did she mean that you have a particular approach to dating? After all, “womaniser” suggests someone who has a casual, unemotional, hunt-and-dump approach to sexual relationships.

      And of course “the number” means exactly what you want it to mean. If a man has three partners in one month, is that the same as having three in twenty years? Is five partners too many? How about ten? What if they were all meaningful relationships instead of one-night stands?

    • “The number of men a woman has been with has absolutely nothing to do with her chances of being faithful, for those here who seem so sure it does.”
      I’d actually like to see this tested, to be honest, God knows how you’d get anything approaching accurate data though…

  113. Women may use their number to keep each other in check only insofar as it matters to men. Women self-police so that they can find a mate, not just for themselves. Feminists stop doing such things when they realize how destructive they are.

  114. Schwyzer asks men to stop “slut shaming” women, and in the very next breath he slut shames mehn.

    “… the average number of lifetime sexual partners for men aged 30 to 44 is around seven, while for women in that same age group, it’s four …”

    He defines sex as heterosexual penetrative intercourse, and note that men have an average of 7 partners. Given his defeinition, every act experienced by a man is also experienced by some woman. It follows by simple math, and the equal number of women and men, that women also have an average of 7 partners.

    Schwyzer establishes a double standard for both mathemtatics and morality in just one sentence. Quite a feat, even for a feminist.

    • Cooper Fleishman says:

      I’m probably wasting my time here, but no, God, no, that’s not what slut-shaming is at all.

      Also, there are lots of variables—one commenter mentioned older men/younger women, for example—that could’ve produced the Kinsey stat. It’s not at all illogical.

      What’s really illogical is … eh, forget it.

      • It wouldn’t even have to be a matter of older men with younger women.

        Antz, lets take a mathematical approach to this shall we?

        Lets use a case study of 7 men and 7 women.

        Lets call the men: Bob, Chris, Jack, Dean, Rich, Mark and Ken
        Lets call the women: Betty, Jessica, Kristen, Tara, Amy, Erin and Carolyn

        Lets say:
        Bob sleeps with Betty, Jessica, Kristen, Tara and Amy.
        Chris sleeps with Betty and Amy.
        Jack sleeps with Kristen and Carolyn
        Dean sleeps with Erin
        Rich sleeps with Betty, Jessica and Tara
        Mark sleeps with Tara, Amy and Carolyn
        Ken sleeps with Amy and Carolyn.

        Which means:
        Betty slept with Bob, Chris and Rich
        Jessica slept with Bob and Rich
        Kristen slept with Bob and Jack
        Tara slept with Bob and Mark
        Erin slept with Dean
        Amy slept with Bob, Chris, Mark and Ken
        Carolyn slept with Mark and Ken

        Which further means:
        Bob had 5 sexual partners
        Chris had 2 sexual partners
        Jack had 2 sexual partners
        Dean had 1 sexual partner
        Rich had 3 sexual partners
        Mark had 3 sexual partners
        Ken had 2 sexual partners

        Betty had 3 sexual partners
        Jessica had 2 sexual partners
        Kristen had 2 sexual partners
        Tara had 2 sexual partners
        Erin had 1 sexual partner
        Amy had 4 sexual partners
        Carolyn had 2 sexual partners

        Which further means:

        18 total sexual partners for the men
        16 total sexual partners for the women.

        So as you can see by my very logical math above, you would be wrong.

        Futher, what the author said was that “most people” define sex as heterosexual penetrative intercourse. And that anything outside of that isn’t consider the complete sexual experience for “most people’; so people are more likely to leave out their numbers when it comes to people they might have only kissed, fondled, given oral to or any other number of acts that don’t concern heterosexual penetrative intercourse. It’s misrepresentitive of you to twist the author’s words and claim that*he* defines it as such when he is clearly explaining how must people preceive the importance and hiarchy of their own sexual experiences.

        • Lets say:
          Bob sleeps with Betty, Jessica, Kristen, Tara and Amy.
          Chris sleeps with Betty and Amy.
          Jack sleeps with Kristen and Carolyn
          Dean sleeps with Erin
          Rich sleeps with Betty, Jessica and Tara
          Mark sleeps with Tara, Amy and Carolyn
          Ken sleeps with Amy and Carolyn.

          Which means:
          Betty slept with Bob, Chris and Rich
          Jessica slept with Bob and Rich
          Kristen slept with Bob and Jack
          Tara slept with Bob and Mark ^^^ AND RICH ^^^
          Erin slept with Dean
          Amy slept with Bob, Chris, Mark and Ken
          Carolyn slept with Mark and Ken ^^^ AND JACK ^^^

          Why would you even try this? Did you think Iwould not catch you?!? I know twisting data is a big feminist pass time, but you should learn a better argument.

          You COULD argue that men like to sleep with older women, who are over 44 years old, so that the young group up to 44 would be show more sex partners for men than women.

          However, this is disingenious. For a 4 to 7 ratio, you would have to have a case where young men harvest half of their sex partners from the cougar pool, and young women never, ever, ever date older men. Not a very reasonable assumption.

          The only reasonable conclusion is more feminist lies. As usual.

          • Alex, you are right. My own math was wrong! I should have thought it out better. I appreciate you pointing out my mistake. I however don’t appreciate you acting like I purposely lied. I made a mistake and you could have pointed out the flaw in my thinking without accusing me of something untrue. Thanks.

          • I did not act like you purposely fabricated your data. I plainly sated it in no uncertain terms. I stand by my statement.

            Given that your two “omissions” involved the last two men on your first list, paired with the last and next to last possible women on your second list, I think the evidence speaks for itself. To identify your fraud, I would have to check every single entry. This suggests an attempt to conceal your fraud, which suggests intent.

  115. Can somebody explain to me what is really the problem here? The only problem I see is if women are criticised with regards to their sexual past. Whom we chose to invite to bed is a matter entirely left up to us. The dating market isn’t fair.

    Also I have to ask the author. Would he even bat an eye at an analogous situation? Women saying things like the 25 year old virgin not being relationship material, since there has to be something wrong with him.

  116. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that a man has a certain expectation concerning the number of bed mates he desires his female companion to have, with in logical reason. There is a big difference between being a man who wouldn’t want to be with a woman who had accrued many bed mates (personal preference) vs. putting women down for accruing bed mates by using shaming language (something that appears to be done with more regularity then any other name calling in our culture). And that’s my only real problem here. You can very much be a man that wants a partner that had less sexual partners then not. Especially if you are a man that hasn’t had that many sexual partners yourself, otherwise you’re a hypocrite. But when you start putting women down that have had more sexual partners, just because it doesn’t agree with what you personally want from a woman, that’s a problem.

    I try to take my relationships on a case by case basis. But I’m not sure I would want to be with a man who had accrued many bed partners. For one, it signals that he might have an inability to control his more base impulses. For another, he might have a roving eye and not be able to feel fulfilled with one partner. For another, he just might objectify women. Then again, each circumstance are different and maybe at one time he had many bed partners but now has figured out what’s important. Who knows. All I’m saying is that I do sometimes evaluate men based on their bed partners. And I don’t blame men who do the same. I however take heart to the name calling and shaming language used to bring women down for enjoying their sexuality. And I think that’s breed out of male insecurity and fear of competition like Hugo said.

  117. I agree with Denis that “Quantity matters only to the extent that it reveals past relationship patterns and sexual maturity.” (Not sure about sexual maturity, though.) If I were with someone who said “At the college I went to, we were in and out of each other’s beds all the time” (in fact I did read that on an Internet board) I wouldn’t be put off, but I’d want to know it. It’s a part of the partner’s past, something that’s made them who they are. But the exact number, I’ve never cared about that. I suppose if someone had lots of experience, we could ask “So, anything really good that you’d like to share?” Of course, the tactful answer would be “No need to tell you anything”! But if someone were just coming off a period of promiscuity, then I might be inclined to say they we could talk about our plans when they’ve settled down for a while.

    If someone hasn’t had many sexual partners, then most likely each one is a phase in their life. Each one would have some importance, if you really know that person.

    Once again, we’re being told that “the average number of lifetime sexual partners for men aged 30 to 44 is around seven, while for women in that same age group, it’s four”. Maybe the guys have had younger lovers, whose own numbers will soon show up–or someone’s fibbin’.

    • These numbers don’t make sense. How can they have higher numbers for men and lower… it takes TWO to tango. Someone is lying. Or under or overreporting. Unless there are a bunch of dudes engaged in a lot of gay sex we just don’t know about…

      • …or over 44 year old cougars are getting lots of action with young guys.

      • Actually, it turns out that everyone is lying. Strap everyone into a lie detector and men’ll come down a bit, and women’ll go up a fair bit (so 7 and 4 means about 6, across the board.)

      • The number make sense there are a few women that are so over the top promoiscous they drive the numbers way up. An example would be the drunk party girl that lets multiple men mount her every weekend for years.

      • No some women are just very promiscuous driving up the number and these are these are the women I want to avoid.

  118. Rage is certainly an unfair mischaracterization of male insecurity. Perhaps Hugo should learn to use a dictionary and re-evaluate if his motivations are to help men or to mischaracterize and insult men.

    Numbers do matter to some extent. The small numbers discussed in this article seem quite normal to me, but if they were significantly higher then a man must consider that his potential GF has a history of short term unstable relationships and possibly one night stands.

    Asking to be compared to previous partners is a huge mistake. Unconsciously, this is telling a women that he feels unworthy and that puts him at a disadvantage in maintaining his status. It must be quite annoying for someone to constantly be feeding another’s fragile ego. Women like confident men.

    Virgins are at the opposite end of the spectrum, but they’re not very popular compared to more experienced women. A virgin will also have insecurity problems and will need constant guidance and reassurance. Insecure and inexperienced women are just plain boring.

    Quantity matters only to the extent that it reveals past relationship patterns and sexual maturity. Quality is important. Revealing your insecurities is just bad game.

    • How does a high number mean immaturity? Would you say the same of men?

      So a guy who was a playboy in his 20s can never been seen as mature? He can’t ‘grow up’ so to speak.

      This is what you seem to be saying about women. That if they have had one nights stands they must be immature and incapable of eventually having a long term meaningful relationships.

    • I didn’t say a high number indicates immaturity, virginity indicates sexual immaturity.
      You sure have an active imagination.

      You could change the genders and my opinion would be exactly the same. I’m not a feminist, because I believe in equality.

      Are you cyber-stalking me? Cute, but I’m not interested.

      • “The small numbers discussed in this article seem quite normal to me, but if they were significantly higher then a man must consider that his potential GF has a history of short term unstable relationships and possibly one night stands.”

        So what if she has one night stands? This doesn’t mean jack shit if one day she decides she wants to have a relationship. Having one night stands doesn’t make one less capable of relationships.

        This statement is a euphemistic way of saying “You can’t make a ho into a housewife.”

        OH and BTW: Code Purple, White, Tan. How do you like them apples?

        • No, IMO one-night stands are a sign of low quality for men and women and sure indicator of infidelity.

          Take your chances if you want, but I have high standards.

          • I just don’t see how having a high number of partners logically equates to being a risk factor for cheating. I just don’t buy it.

            If anything, someone who say gets married early and ‘passes up’ on a lot of partners before settling down with one and experimentation might be more of a risk to seek some variety they didn’t partake in prior to the union.

          • You can choose to disagree and you can have all the one night stands you want.

            I don’t do one night stands or associate with low quality types that do one stands. If somebody is willing to quickly jump in bed with a stranger for easy sex, I don’t see what would stop them from cheating if they had an easy opportunity.

            It’s only my opinion about how I choose those that I associate with. My body, my choice.

          • Thanks for the clarification... says:

            So you’re saying… sexually experience = low quality person. Right. Of course it’s your body and your choice… so as a man should be respected… but when a woman makes a choice about her body… it’s your right to judge her.

            Thanks for exposing yourself as the out and out misogynist you are. Stop all this Mens Rights bullshit and fess up.

          • “sexually experience = low quality person”

            No, I didn’t say that at all. One-night stands=low quality person.

            That’s my opinion for both men and women, so take your accusation and shove it.

      • “I’m not a feminist, because I believe in equality.”

        Funniest comment in this thread.

  119. Isn’t it important to consider what acts are included in “the number?” I think most people only count PIV sex, when there is a much wider range of sexual activities people engage in. Asking “how many different dicks have been inside your vagina” won’t get you the whole story about a person’s sexual history, but it’s the only thing that seems to matter to people (which is not to say I think any of it should necessarily matter at all).

    • This reminds me of Clerks, in which Dante and Veronica ask each other’s numbers. Dante says he’s slept with 12 women. Veronica says she’s slept with (i.e., had PIV sex with) only 3 guys, which Dante is okay with until he finds out she’s gone down on 37 guys.

      • I heard of the calculation from a movie which escapes me- when a man says his number, one should divide it by half, when a woman says, times it by 2… or 3…

        lol

        • That was American Pie, or possibly 2. It’s the “rule of three”. Whatever number a guy says,divide by 3 (round up). Whatever numbe a girl says, multiply by 3.

      • A.Y.Siu: I was about to post the link to the Clerks clip. It absolutely fits here!

        “Try not to suck any dick on your way through the parking lot!”

  120. At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, I believe your virginity is a gift to be given to your wife and wife alone. If this was the goal, none of this mental torment would ever plague you to begin with. That’s what sets the bar high- that’s where the true focus should lie.

    • American society at large doesn’t put a premium on male purity. You don’t see Mother-Son purity balls do you?

      • I’ve never heard of a father-son purity ball. It must some small town traditionalist thing because in most urban centers promiscuous women are highly valued. Virgins aren’t popular in Hollywood, it’s quite the opposite.

        You can’t pin the blame on “American society” for some insignificant religious practice.

        • I don’t think there has ever been such a thing… which is why I was pointing it out. Even in religious spheres there is a sexual double standard.

          • Even? They are are where you would expect to find this kind of BS more than anywhere else. That worldview can’t survive without compartmentalization.

            But you kinda make it sound like you think those freaks and deviants are mainstream.

      • Mother -Son Purity Balls focus on the son pledging to not take another man’s wife’s virginity. How’s that for twisted?

  121. I don’t see why this is slander. Maybe you could add a concrete conclusion and present a coherent, cohesive argument instead of quoting from various articles written by Hugo Schwyer on this site?

    • I totally agree with you Liz. All men are rapists and pedophiles… except around the females in their family. What could possibly be slanderous about stating such a self-evident truth?

      • Carlos, that is probably the best use of satire I have seen this year….excellent job
        (yes Im serious, no that wasnt sarcasm)

  122. “Filled with rage?” That’s just ridiculous.

    I asked for my wife’s number. Hell, I asked for the number of every girl I’ve ever been with. And if they asked for mine (my wife never has), I told them the honest truth. Maybe it’s the reporter in me but I want to know everything about the person I’m with if I’m going to get even remotely serious. And I’m not about to feel guilty for asking because there is nothing wrong with that.

    The number isn’t going to tell you everything about the other person, but it is revealing on some fronts. And I’m someone who is an open book. I don’t get “filled with rage” about a woman’s high number, and I don’t lie about my own. I would think a full disclosure policy in any relationship is a good thing, but your assertion is it’s none of my business, it doesn’t matter and I’m a hypocritical and insecure jerk for even asking.

    I don’t think so.

    If not asking important questions about your dating prospects makes you a good man, well…that’s great for you I guess. But I don’t think asking/not asking that question has any bearing on our status as “good men.”

    • You think it’s ridiculous, but you haven’t walked in my shoes. At a time when I was actively dating, a remember a guy being really pushy and inquisitive about my number. When I revealed it, he then blurted out, “So you kinda a slut.” I just stood there in shock for a min. He then proceeded to try to get to me to come to his house ‘cus of course I have no standards and will sleep with anyone… WTF…

      And when I told him to get lost he gets all butt hurt and proceeds to call me names and waive his arms around in a threatening manner in my face until a bouncer threw him out of the club.

      If I had a dime for every time I encountered a version of these events I’d be a rich woman. In my experience, revealing the number *always* changes the dynamic and has never been positive.

      • Don’t let it bother you, they’re are lots of other guys in line waiting their turn.

      • Two answers aren’t there? The obvious is that if he’s so certain that ‘a slut’ will want it with him then he’s obvious the kind of man to want sluts – so what does it say about a man who thinks he’s only fit for women he regards as ‘sluts’?

        The less obvious is that it can make a difference according to how people treat it just because women have made such an issue of being the sexless innocent making this sacrifice to please the man (and shouldn’t he be grateful!) instead of equal friends enjoy making love together just the same as anything else together. Nobody likes to feel used, so promiscuous just out for thrills re no different from promiscuous men – but women have built a stronger tradition of caution than men because men do not risk pregnancy, cannot be forced into painful sex for the woman’s relief and are generally more capable of forcing sex further than a woman enjoys or fighting her off if she tries to. So women follow most female mammals in being selective first, where males respond to any chance but select second (if at all).

        A promiscuous woman is not bothered about getting sex wherever it’s available – so when one stays as a friend whether there’s sex or not, it is a ‘feather in the cap’ that she must be finding something more than she could get with any man anywhere anytime! Every woman has a vagina, every man a penis and everybody knows the different kinds of orgasm. So is somebody unconcerned about getting them anywhere keeps coming back to you, there must be something her others can’t offer that you are doing right!

  123. Urgh…I just re-read my post, and I realize I come across as a rape hysterical person, and I’m actually not. My main point, Hugo, is that your statement is inflammatory and just so misinformed….I don’t believe that men are in a rage at sexually experienced women. I just don’t believe that men are these biologically angry sexually frustrated out-of-control people

    • You don’t come across as hysterical, and it didn’t sound ot me that rpae was what you were angry at. It sounded ot me like you were calling Hugo on a some biased and shaky assumptions, and he probably appreciates that.

    • Finnegan says:

      Actually, yeah, you do come across as pretty hysterical. I mean, how the hell else did you get all this “sexually enraged” stuff form Hugo’s piece?

      • Finnegan says:

        By which I mean the claim that Hugo describes *all* men as “sexually enraged”, when in fact he merely observes that a significant number of men are. (Yeah, I know, I screwed that up pretty badly.)

  124. It depends on your age and thus yur maturity level. I never asked a girl’s “number” until my first wife. That was a huge mistake. She was a musician and a musician groupie. Her number was large. I felt like Bobby Murcer replacing Mickey Mantle in the Yankees CF in 1969. I was 26 years old at the time, she was 23.

    When I met my second wife, three years ago, I was determined to correct as many of my past mistakes. I was 37, she was 30. She asked for my past so I was honest. She was honest with hers. Our numbers were identical. Neither of us were ever diseased. Three years later, I never think about her number or anyone before me. I only see future.

Trackbacks

  1. […] from The Good Men Project written by Hugo Schwyzer […]

  2. […] any case, a good time to link to this piece from February at the Good Men Project: Why Does It Matter How Many Partners She’s Had? […]

  3. […] piece was originally published at The Good Men Project Magazine, an online publication which claims: “Unlike so many other […]

  4. […] Read the rest of the article here on The Good Men Project […]

  5. […] GoodMenProject.com:Judging from what I read online and hear from my students, the question of the “number” is as compelling as ever. This month, Marie Claire ran an article, “What’s Your Number?” in which five women (whose numbers ranged from zero to 100) told their stories. The March issue of Cosmopolitan Australia features the same discussion, noting that 59 percent of readers surveyed thought knowing a partner’s exact number was important, and that 33 percent of those same readers had lied about their own pasts, claiming fewer sexual partners than they’d actually had. […]

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