A conference call on manhood vs. personhood led to a lively conversation about what it means to be a man in today’s world.
—-
Embedded in the mission of The Good Men Project is that we are having a robust and important conversation about the changing roles of men in the 21st century. And it’s easy to see how roles of men are changing—for example, the stunning rise of dads as active, engaged, compassionate parents instead of simply a financial provider over just a few generations. You’d be hard-pressed to say that is not a positive change. But the harder question is one of identity—what does it mean to actually be a man today, and is that any different at all from being a person? On a conference call today with 22 people from The Good Men Project community, a lively discussion ensued. Thanks to all who participated and attended. Some highlights:
Jed Diamond “I’d like to start by mentioning that every cell in ones body is sex-specific. Research from MIT is only just starting to study the implications of that. But I am reminded of the quote by Robert Bly who said he wanted to “hear the sound that male cells sing”.”
Tom Mallouck: “I’d like to talk about the difference of being a good male vs. a good person. The challenge of being a good man creates a fear of failure that sometimes inadvertently leads to shame if you can’t measure up. We should talk about being a good person, not a good man.”
Dave Kanegis: “I look at myself as a person first, instead of am man first. People are people…Culture has an impact on how we view men and women. When I am dating, some women may consider me manly, others not… depending upon their view of what makes a man a man…. I believe that labeling moves us toward cultural stereotypes rather than away from them.”
Mike Patrick: “There is now a cross-over of women taking non-traditional roles that used to be only for men. But sometimes we still get jobs because of our labels. I have gotten a certain number of jobs because of my disability. ”
Tom Fiffer: “Everyone wants to feel valued and needed and recognized. And there is stress when we step out of one role into another. If women can do everything a man can do, is there any difference? If those roles are truly interchangeable, do we lose anything?”
Brent Greene: “I am very interested in the dynamics of an aging population. I am not sure we are really seeing advancement of getting rid of gender stereotypes in the framework of aging. We have the old crone and the old geezer. I think we see people being infantilized as they get older and not treated as productive members of society.”
Kozo Hattori: “In my experience, the more gender stereotypes I drop, the more human I become. Whatever else I lose, I am willing to lose that in the quest to become more human.”
Mark Sherman: “Getting back to men in non-traditional roles—let’s take the example of the male nurse. Women are encouraged to be in non-traditional roles, but men get no such encouragement. The phrase of the generation is “you go girl!” there are no posters that say that for men. Although I will say that it was great there were some ads on the Super Bowl that highlighted dads and showed them as very heroic.
Mike Patrick: “It’s interesting that we gain perspective on what is happening in our culture from SuperBowl ads”.
Brent Greene: “I remember seeing two presentations on men and women in the workplace. The women’s presentation was upbeat, the man’s was decidedly downbeat.”
Tom Fiffer: “As we fight steretoypes here, this is something we want to address, this notion of empowerment. Women are empowered by telling them to be like men. There’s this notion of the “bad-ass broad” which is seen as a positive. But…no one believes that men need to be empowered. Is the sensitive Stay-At-Home dad as empowered as the bad ass broad?”
Mark Sherman: “I remember hearing how girls self-esteem falls as they become teenagers. But was that same study done with boys? Empowerment should be important for boys too.”
Koze Hattori: “Empowerment is not a zero-sum game. When a man is a stay at home dad, that father is giving to their children his own form of empowerment as a ripple effect to future generations. And even right here in this call, the older generation of men offer a lot of hope, optimism and leadership.”
Tom Fiffer: “Being a Stay-at-home Dad is hugely empowering to kids. We want more dads to feel that it is an empowering choice and not feel as if they are stereotyped.”
***
Want to get invited to our weekly conference calls? You need to either be a contributor to the website—online submissions form here. Or become a Premium Member, and you will have the chance to participate in any of the weekly calls that you would like.
Photo: Paul Stevenson / flickr
Dave Kanegis: “I look at myself as a person first, instead of am man first. People are people…Culture has an impact on how we view men and women. When I am dating, some women may consider me manly, others not… depending upon their view of what makes a man a man…. I believe that labeling moves us toward cultural stereotypes rather than away from them.” This was my favorite part of the brief article. As a lot of men I have spoken to in the past months find that there is this “battle of the sexes” with feminism on the… Read more »
We did an exercise in class once. We were handed a slip of paper with a question on it and were asked to answer it so no one knew what questions anyone else was given. . A third of the class was asked to write 10 adjectives to describe the ideal man. A third of the class was asked to write down 10 adjectives to describe the ideal woman. A third of the class was asked to write down 10 adjectives to describe the ideal person. There were significantly more than 10 adjectives when we eliminated the duplicates. There were… Read more »
Depends who is being asked or where we are sourcing informations from. If we go by mainstream media Masculintiy is: Gunman, Rapist, Terrorist, Con-man, etc. the media conveniently leaves out gender when we are talking about: Rescue operations, Philanthropists, Masses murdered, Victims, unless they happen to be women. The thing is it isn’t enough to just be a man. You have to be a ‘good’ man. You have to not just exist within the laws. You have to do something good to prove you are not bad. We don’t hold women (rightfully so) to the same standard. We see this… Read more »
This was a lively discussion and another reason why its engaging to meet with other writers on GMP with Lisa on Fridays. I agree with Roger that being a good person and being a good male are both important, but look at our reality through slightly different, but overlapping lenses. I think it is important to recognize our person-hood, to recognize the ways in which my wife and I are similar, but its also important to recognize our differences, both because we are different people and also because she’s a woman and I’m a man. There are 10 trillion cells… Read more »
Mark, your last sentence is really what I was trying to communicate. When we talk about gender (disregarding chromosomes, and obvious physical differences) the rest are just social constructs.’ Much of what defines our masculinity comes from the nature of the way we were brought up. I read a great article written in the 1970’s about sex role identification. One of the examples cited was if a young boy grew up in a neighborhood where all the kids played baseball vs one that was more of an artists colony. The boy growing up in the “baseball” neighborhood was much more… Read more »
Great conversation. I liked tom’s, kozo’s and dave on dating comments. At my age, and the study of gender construction for many years this whole thing interests me. Alot. I ask a question. “What does it feel like to be a man, or a woman for that matter” you hear this all the time. To some women it means i feel pretty. So thats an outside standard internalized. For men it may be exhibited in a fist bump. They outdueled a business opponent. Again. Outside internalized. But as i reflect have i ever felt like a man or have i… Read more »
Good man v. Good person – they are two separate, but related topics. First – “good” implies a judgment that may not be ultimately constructive. Second – being a good “person” is genetically and emotionally different from being a “good woman” or a “good man”. There may not be a globally relevant definition of what it means to be a “good man”. It could be, and probably is, that the definition is culturally defined.