It was just five weeks ago that we were talking about rape culture and Brock Turner’s pitiful two-month sentence after a felony conviction. As disrespectful and entitled as I already believed Mr. Trump to be, I never thought we would be revisiting this issue again because of a Presidential nominee. Then again, I never thought I would see the day where newscasters were freely using the word “pussy” as a direct quote, either.
“It was just locker room talk.” That is the phrase, the excuse, the “talking point,” that Donald Trump continues to repeat.
Is that word itself, “pussy,” “locker room talk?” For frat boys, maybe. In bedroom chatter between two consenting adults, it’s used often. People who think what people are reacting to is the use of that word itself are missing the point entirely.
The truth is Mr. Trump’s bragging of sexually predatory behavior tells both victims and women that our bodies belong to the bold men who will use them as they please.
♦◊♦
The visceral reaction we are having is because we recognize the sexual violation he brags to have performed.
In fact, you can hear him basically coaching (grooming) Bush on how to prey on women. Trump then ends it with an entitlement of “catch me if you can” attitude. It’s sickening.
There is a REAL and VALID concern about what these messages do to men and women who have already been victims, as well as, the future victims and perpetrators of rape and sexual assault. To not react, or worse to defend, the actions of Mr. Trump is to tell the women in your life that you are okay with this. And tell the men in your life, its okay for them to objectify women for their purposes.
But this attitude is also what keeps women silent on the incredibly common lesser offenses and possibly what is making women and men alike, defend Trump’s abhorrent behaviors expressed in his hot mic recording.
Think this is an old issue for him?
How about last week’s Twitter storm about one particular woman or his constant attacks upon his opponents’ looks, or, even more sickening, the things he’s said about his own daughters’ sex appeal and breasts. (And let’s just keep that alleged rape of a 13-year-old, and the December court appearance to ourselves, shall we?)
♦◊♦
This is personal for me. And it is personal for so many women.
I rarely meet a woman who hasn’t dealt with some form of sexual impropriety from men in the past. It’s our society’s dirty little secret and it’s time to start talking. If we are willing to overlook this problem by just chalking it up to men being men, then young girls and women are ill-prepared to deal with such sexual advances.
I know because that young girl was me.
The “boys will be boys” attitude is precisely what kept women like me silent. I finally shared some of my story in this article.
When I was 14, I was at a church event and my Sunday school teacher, a man in his 40’s, came up behind me and slipped his hands under my shirt. He cupped my breasts while pressing his erection into my back (although I was too naïve to know what an erection was then) and whispered in my ear “If you tell your parents, I will shame you in front of the entire church…Remember I’m a deacon and you’re a silly girl.” I believed him and I stayed quiet.
This wasn’t the only experience. A year or so later, there was a boy my age who grabbed my hand and put it in his pants. We weren’t dating, we weren’t touching at any point, yet he thought I would want to touch his penis. There was also my daddy’s brother who was just 7—8 years older than me, drunk one night who forcefully pulled me into his lap and tried to kiss me.
Let’s not forget about the modern dating trend of men sending dick pics to women, too. Without consent, an unsolicited picture of that nature is sexual harassment, not to mention a disturbing misunderstanding in how women operate and relate. But it’s still blurry for far too many.
Think all of these experiences are just “boys will be boys?”
Is this okay for your mothers, daughters or wives to experience?
Or your sons or brothers?
♦◊♦
Back then, we didn’t openly talk about consent the way we do now.
Because of that, I didn’t even know how to respond, what to do next or that it (sexual assault/harassment) had a name.
Not until I was raped at 19 did I know I was definitely assaulted, but I still remained silent. The man who raped me was the son of a cop….he may not have had much power on his own but his father did and I knew my chances of a charge were zero.
Good and honorable men of the world…stand with us! Let other men know this may be how boys act sometimes, but this is not how MEN act. Be a shining light of hope and remind us how many of you would shout “This is #NotOkay!”
Women…stand together with other women! We must speak up for real change to happen because its #notokay. Support women by demanding better of the men who believe that simply because we are attractive to them, they can do what they want to us. They are not entitled to my body or yours. Let’s lock arms and hearts as only women can.
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This post is republished on Medium.
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I am sorely disappointed when an article about sexual abuse can be so easily sidetracked intp political banter. Yes to springboard of the comments highlighted Trump’s accusations, However I read the article from the position of both unwanted sexual advances and rape. To polities the topic is tantamount as to relegating sexual abuse to the back seat of a political agenda. Sexual abuse is sexual abuse, no matter in a male or female is the perpetrator. A victim is a victim, regardless of there sex. This has not one thing to do with conservative vs. liberal, straight vs. gay, male… Read more »
I am with you and boldly speak about this at my music performances http://www.bnwshow.com
Y’know what else drives me crazy, and makes absolutely no sense to me, is that most of the liberals can see that government is so corrupt, that they keep getting bigger and even more powerful over all the individual lives you say you’re fighting for, yet also can see that they’ve screwed up just about everything they’ve touched, ask the native Americansfeel about the current bureau of Indian affairs, Obamacare that everybody is bailing on as a failure, which everyone else told you was going to happen, but you wouldn’t losten, and also the bankruptcy laws you bemoan, yet you… Read more »
A cop just told me I was wrong… in uniform…. First, this story was so well written. Like many women, I too recalled all the big and small incidents of unwanted sexual aggression in my life. A memory of the 6th grade came back to me in the middle of the night Friday, when a boy sexually assaulted me for 1 week. In the school hall, on the bus, in the back of the classroom even, he put his hands on my vagina, my rear, leaving me multiple penis drawings on my desk. I physically defended myself, and after one… Read more »
This needed to be said. What Trumpy said is as wrong as it would have been for any aspiring politician to have been overheard saying that it was OK to avoid paying taxes, or to use bankruptcy as a way to screw over his creditors or employees! But irony aside, objectification and abuse of another human by anyone, whatever gender, is utterly selfish and morally repugnant. It’s the behaviour of a child masquerading as an adult. Trumpy is a boy pretending to be a man, simple as. I think anyone who believes in respect and human rights for everyone (irrespective… Read more »
Well. Let’s talk truth then. It was reported that career staffers at the DoJ and the FBI were appalled by the decisionto not charge Hillary and have her security clearance pulled. This was corruption at the highest levels of government and continues as we speak. I want to hear the indignation of the left side of this house. But sadly there won’t be any. You’ll just go to your polling places and pull the Democratic lever. And you can bet there’llbe massive voting fraud in this one too. Don’t be surprised if it’s actually Kaine who becomes President in short… Read more »
“Feel like victims”?
Motherf*cker, my ex threw pottery at my face and thanks to feminist assholes like yourself and your support for bullshit laws like the Duluth Model I knew that if I called the cops on her, and despite the fact it was MY face that was jacked up, I would be the one to risk getting arrested solely for the fact that I was a few inches taller and a few pounds heavier than her.
So please take your bullshit and cram it.
Don’t be silly. Bankruptcy is not used to screw people over. It’s the result, not the intent. Don’t mislead the point. But where’s the crime in it? Congress wrote the laws and never saw fit to change them. Lots of folksuse bankruptcy every single day to get out from under bad business. But where your’re coming from is 2 places. First, a moral indignation. Has absolutely no place in this discussion. You most likely support forgiveness of student debt, which is basically sanctioned bankruptcy. 2nd, this misguidednotion that the rich ain’t paying their fair share, which is equally stupid. Who… Read more »
Deb. Mr. Trump is exactly the type of male that I’d like to have a go at (preferrably with a set of brass knuckles on his bloated face). He is representative of a large contingent of males in western society, even larger in societies of developing nations who view women as unimportant and their playthings. His bombastic, vulgar and bragging locker room talk says it all. How can anyone respect that guy unless they are as much of a pig as he is. I’d say the percentage of this type of male in society is likely a minority, maybe a… Read more »
And it’s Trump and his supporters who are supposedly advocating violence. Interesting way to show your supposed “maturity”.
Again. I’ve seen more vicious and nasty folks on the left here than I’ve seen on the right by a long shot. Thanks, Ted!
Excellent, Deb! Keep it up! Yes, I would love to support all women who have experienced what you have. I am so dreadfully sorry to hear what happened to you. To have had 4 terrible experiences is just awful. As a Roman Catholic, I am absolutely incensed at the behaviour of that Deacon. It’s a grievous sin, of course, so in God’s sight he’s already left the Church, even if he still shows up and carries the title. The teenage boy did a terrible thing. Your uncle’s behaviour sounds like your family background is not good (that’s not a judgement… Read more »
Hi Oliver…sorry I am just now seeing this but I wanted to thank you for your kind words and wish you well in your new career. I became and a love and dating coach a few years ago and love it!
I would have much preferred to hear a mindful MALE’S opinions about this important issue..Ms. Besinger has written a terrific article, however, when I clicked on it to read it, I was very disappointed to have yet another woman’s take on this. I am curious about the use of “we”.in the header: she’s not a man. This article reads like the “Agony” column in Cosmopolitan magazine, with details of her victimisation by a number of males. I was sexually abused as a child, and my first perpetrator was FEMALE. I had to do a huge “healing journey” over the course… Read more »
Thank you,Deb, for your story. I am a 67 year old woman with many similar incidents in my past. Too numerous to mention. I have worked in hospitals my entire adult life where many of these assaults happened. Now that I am old and gray I watch these same things happen to other women in the environment. It is not just locker room talk. Try being in the middle of a “Code Blue” doing chest compressions on a patient with a doctor feeling up your derrière i.e. Piece of ass.
“It was just five weeks ago that we were talking about rape culture and Brock Turner’s pitiful two month sentence after a felony conviction.”
yes, Brock Turners should have gotten a LOT more time than he actually got got for that felony conviction.
But, what do you think of this?
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/08/former_ravens_cheerleader_moll.html
I feel empathy for this woman. How fucked is that, that the conditioning goes that deep. She’s a rapist, no different then any man that has done so to a young girl. I actually sort of feel that she didn’t know any better. By that I mean that we raise girls to believe that using their sexuality is just ok, that they can’t possibly harm a male, that having sex with underage boys is “different” then when men do it to girls. I really believe that she’s clueless, caught by surprise, because this has never been publicly expressed. In fact,… Read more »
Clueless? Really? There is a large group of people who believe that men need to be taught not to rape, but not teaching them doesn’t excuse or mitigate any rapes they commit. She should have had to serve the 15 years and even that would have been light.
Just a clarification, guys. I was not affirming “clueless”, I was speaking to my own conditioning, and how fucked up that is that I would even think that, but that is what we are inundated with, conviction for men, excuses for women, for the exact same crime
The sentencing demonstrate that clearly..
I don’t think I can buy the “she’s clueless” bit anymore than when someone tries to say that men that abuse under age girls really don’t know. There is a double standard in effect. Men who have terrible sexual attitudes about women are plainly identified at every turn and there is active pressure to stop them. Women who have terrible sexual attitudes about men are still being given the same free pass they have enjoyed for ages and the “all sex crime victims matter” crowd cares as much as they would like to have us believe. And that is the… Read more »
@ Jules
And it’s been four months and counting that we haven’t spoken about this.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-israel-australia-extradition-idUKKCN0YP171
It was even girls she victimized, but hey, the perp was a she so.
My original post got deleted. Proved my point. Guess what. You get to delete it many times. One thing I’ve noticed, is that this is the GMP site, where presumably there are good people here posting. Yet many liberals here are really nasty, vicious individuals, wrapped in the cloak of righteousness. That truly does concern me. Of course conservatives can be too, yet on this site, I note that a post is most likely deleted if an obvious conservative gets snarky to an individual, yet if a liberal does it personally to another poster it stays. What’s up with that?
It’s called being a good progressive. They are the moral police.
Here’s the problem I have with the liberal agenda. Give one step in that direction and you never go back. Example. Somalian refugees. Not pertinent to this particular discussion but a good example nonetheless. They came here because of the horror of their homeland. Yet I know this for a fact. Many, many today go back to visit their families and friends. Stay for 3 months. What? No more horror? Safe enough to visit? So why don’t they go home? Nope. We pay their rent, food and support here. Why would they go back. This makes no sense.
Men who sexually assault other people need to die. What other crime is this horrendous? None, other than murder. Kill them all, and let God sort them out.
“Men who sexually assault other people need to die. What other crime is this horrendous? None”
Well, maybe women who sexually harass men. I think death might be excessive, but could support that as long as the punishment was the same across the board. At least women who did it would get a punishment.
It baffles me to no end that calling feminism a hate movement will get deleted but saying male rapists need to die is allowed.
I guess this proves that there is no bad kind of speech, just appropriate and inappropriate targets. As long as you insult/attack the right people anything goes.
It reiterates that I’m on the right track where GMP is so far left that my being on the right is right. Hillary covered for Bill, slammed the victims and showed no mercy for them. Hillary received money from countries that demean women and kill gays but she gets a pass … Amazing. And GMP sees this women with the morals they believe in?
You’ve obviously been hurt by someone. I hope that you someday find the healing that you need.
Yeah, meanwhile women who sexually assault get book deals and tv shows on Comedy Central
THis was amazing journalism!! It made me very sad and angry at the same time. There are to many stories like this.
Yeah, Amanda! I agree! Deb was very brave sharing this!
By the way, you might get a comment or too praising the article (It’s not so much bad as it is clueless as to why men seem apathetic.) and say how some guys are “missing the point”. What you won’t get is any acknowledgement that women have done similar things in front of a national audience, with intent, and for the sake of entertainment and then not be able to get their “apology” out because their too busy laughing without consequences or repercussions. You won’t even get an acknowledgement that it’s wrong let alone outrage. I can’t see a clearer… Read more »
If you are apathetic about this topic, or how the op wrote a piece opening up about men sexually abusing her, that is on you. It is not any woman’s fault or even collective society’s fault if you feel apathetic about women’s stories of abuse. If you don’t care or don’t want to care, don’t. Us women would love the support, we would love for men to listen to us and actually care about what happens to us in society but we understand that many never will. But don’t blame others for your own feelings of apathy. Your apathy is… Read more »
@ Erin Si that’s what you call your not condemning or commenting on what happened at The View or the myriad of other issues that men have brought forth. Let’s just be clear about that. You tend to blame society and men for women’s body image issues, but seem deaf or maybe the word is contemptuous of men when society tells men they don’t have ownership of their bodies. Isn’t that always your position though, men shouldn’t concern themselves over about their issues. Their sole purpose is whay they can do to support women? These issues are interconnected. You don’t… Read more »
You chose to make this about John personally but one thing you haven’t done, and probably cant do, is show that he is wrong. This is bigger than what John feels so trying to make this about his personal level of apathy isn’t doing any good. He is talking about the overall response to what Trump has said and the massive outrage its caused compared to the total lack of outrage when famous women make similar comments and the fact that when someone outrages in kind they are dismissed as hating women or whatever. The fact that the majority of… Read more »
I’ll support women! I’ll listen to them and care what happens to them in society! I’m very happy to do that!
You cannot be serious. By that logic, you can justify saying literally anything – it’s all good, because the what the women in our lives don’t know can’t hurt ’em, right? Billy Bush: “Whoa! [that] girl is hot as ****!” That is locker room talk. In fact, that’s pretty standard talk amongst men everywhere. I think that most women would agree that it is largely innocuous, provided that it doesn’t warp our perspective to the point where appearance is all we care about. I don’t know what sort of locker room you would need to loiter in to overhear “grab… Read more »
I like what Nancy O’Dell said about this, which was basically that there is no reason at all for any kind of ‘locker room talk”. There is no room for objectifying women. Women are people. Not a walking collection of body parts designed for men to rate and comment on just to bond with other men over our bodies. Sometimes it seems men forget this. It is possible to be sexual and not objectify those you are sexually attracted to. But I think men want to hold on tight to the ideal that their objectification of women is totally okay.… Read more »
@ Erin “But what if there was a better way? A better expression of sexuality?” What better way? People make this whole objectification thing up to demonize male sexuality. Women say well I’m not objectifying you because I view you as a person. Very few men don’t view women as people. Oh, but I want to get to know a person. Yet, the next time I’m having sex with a woman and she says what programming language are you learning next will be the first time it happens, but I guess I was just being objectified all those other times.… Read more »
I would be ashamed if I thought objectifying women was some form of male sexuality. IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT. If a woman objectifies my body parts, that’s not female sexuality, either. However, if she does it in the bedroom, then it certainly is. However, in the bedroom, I don’t mind at all – in fact, I’m flattered, haha!
@ OLIVER
“I don’t mind at all – in fact, I’m flattered, haha!”
That’s my point. Objectification in and of itself isn’t the problem. There’s room for debate as to when and to what extent it is appropriate. I myself draw a distinction between locker room talk that was private and no one else was intended to hear and locker room talk on national TV.
I agree, Erin! Locker-room talk is a total pile of garbage, even to guys. It’s useless, achieves nothing and just tells me the guy who talks like that cares so much what his friend thinks of him that he would rather make jokes about female body parts than stick up for his values and believe in himself. If he really believes this about women, then he is probably an unsavoury individual to hang out with. If it’s just a joke, why does it have to be so offensive? It’s a bunch of macho, male-posturing, time-wasting misuse of air. It’s also… Read more »
If I ever heard men talking like that in a locker room, I would get out. I don’t need to associate with such guys.
To me the locker room talk, even the absolute worst of it (which seems rare that locker room talk goes into the things Trump said despite that being propped up as the norm for locker room talk) is a symptom of poor education on consent. I say this because most locker room talk does not justify or okay those things. In and of itself locker room talk is for things that one would not say in mixed company. But that in of itself doesn’t mean its bad (because although I don’t know a common name for it but women sure… Read more »
No Danny, locker room talk is the result of male entitlement to women’s bodies. Something that is deeply embedded in our culture. Not, “poor education on consent”. Women don’t consent to being talked about like pieces of meat. Women have no consent in how men talk about us. And in all honesty, I think most men want to ho,d tight to being sexually objectifying of women by themselves and among other men. And where does that leave all of us? It leaves us with one face being shown to women when in the company of women and another face being… Read more »
That is not true Erin. Not from a male perspective at all. You clearly do not understand men, so really, don’t try to tell us what it means. Out loud, in mixed company it’s crass and vulgar. In same sex it’s braggadocio. Yet the actuality is the vast majority of men would not DO this. Clinton did. Maybe Trump did too for all I know. Will you tell me the vulgarities of what women say to each other when mixed company is not around to hear it? I’ve actually heard a bit of it myself so it’s not all primroses… Read more »
I don’t approve of “braggadocio”. It’s totally unnecessary – like I ever need to care what other men think. Stuff them!
@ Erin
“No Danny, locker room talk is the result of male entitlement to women’s bodies.”
So how do you explain the other incidents people brought up where women said things about and did things to men on national TV? What about those “trashy”, “gossip”, magazines that mostly women read. I doubt many of those celebrities consented to have their information and pictures spread all over the place at least not in many of the cases.
Oh no that’s probably “internalized misogyny” or something like that because no matter which way the horrible talk is going, women are always the victim.
Women don’t need a locker room to bash or objetify men. it is acceptable by the culture. I actually read an article arguing that it is ok for women to objectify men, but not ok for men to do so to women. And again, anyone that believes this is “man talk” has never been privy to female banter…so apparently these white knights defending women are not really close enough, respected enough, trusted enough by common women to be accepted into such gathering where such is expressed…which is, perhaps, why they need to white knight, a means of finally gaining female… Read more »
No Danny, locker room talk is the result of male entitlement to women’s bodies. Wrong order but I didn’t realize that you know the intent and source of all locker room talk and understand it better than the people who actually engage in it. Where do you think that “sense of entitlement” comes from? From never learning how to treat women. Most men learn it, some don’t. Trump didnt and at this point he basically refuses to learn it. But anyway you’re trying to lump all locker room talk together so that all of it is the equivalent of what… Read more »
Yeah, I agree. A real man shows only one face and shows it to both men and women. It shouldn’t change. If it does, he’s not a real man and he’s – well – two-faced!
@ OLIVER
“Yeah, I agree. A real man shows only one face and shows it to both men and women. It shouldn’t change. If it does, he’s not a real man and he’s – well – two-faced!”
So if a man were to hit you and you knock him out,, your suggesting that he should act in the exact same way if hit by a woman or he’d be two faced and not a real man?
Oh my I wasn’t expected anyone to actually invoke the “real man” thing. I thought we were past that…
There is a reason there are things that both men and women choose not to talk about in mixed company. Trying to lump everything men wouldn’t talk about in mixed company together as the same kind of offensive locker room talk that Trump said is extremely dishonest.
Or how women will paint the rest of you by prostituting themselves for money and fame, thus teaching men and boys a very different reality then who most women are…just as such actions as Trump and Bill Clinton teach women a very different reality then that which the rest of us men are. These women would not be at a poor man’s convention at all, let alone acting as they did. The Bill and Don show would not be interested in plain looking women either. Look at the top men, athletes etc. Always with beautiful women. look at the beautiful… Read more »
This isn’t actually about women v men. This is about power. It’s about abusers and targets. Women can be abusers. Men can be targets. Deb’s overall point stands regardless of gender: it’s not the word choice that is the problem here. It’s the underlying attitude of power over others.
The problem is this. If this is about power then why is it that when women in powerful positions say and do similar things its not considered a problem? Female reporter openly rubbing on men’s chests at the Olympics? No problem. Female talk show hosts laughs about a man’s genitals being mutilated by his wife? No problem. Man of any walk of life says something invasive about women? Oh well he represents men as a whole and that’s a problem and everyone must stand up to fight against it. I understand and agree that this is about power but there… Read more »
@ Elaine I appreciate the attempt, but ““boys will be boys”, “Good and honorable men of the world…stand with us! Let other men know this may be how boys act sometimes, but this is not how MEN act.”, and “”Women…stand together with other women! “.” doesn’t sound gender neutral to me at least not as far as acknowledging men and boys can be victims and women and girls can be perpetrators. If anything, a very, very, charitable interpretation of gender neutrality would be men are helped by helping women. We know and understand what women are saying. How can we… Read more »
Yeah, that’s right!
Truth, Elaine. More people need to begin to understand what old Abe was talking about: Power corrupts…
Where were you back when Billl has sex with an “intern” Sexual harassment? Where have you all been through the years and your support for the women who have accused Bill of actual rape? Why not the outrage toward Hillary for her calling the women bimbos who accused Bill of rape and abuse? This is the women you want representing women, especially with her views toward victims?
I’m sorry those things happened to you. The behavior is unacceptable and wrong. The thing is with “locker room” talk, it shouldn’t tell women anything (maybe men, but not women), because women weren’t intended to hear. Billy Bush was suspended and might be fired. I just recently viewed a clip of the women on the television show, The View, joking and laughing about a man who’s wife severed his penis for the crime of wanting a divorce. I was horrified and saddened. You know what happened to the women on the view? Nothing. Sharon Osbourne couldn’t even get her “apology”… Read more »
Don’t waste time on that John. I remember when that happened a few years ago and the people who are outraged over Trump’s words now were dead silent back then. In fact the only people who seemed to really speak up about it were those MRAs that everyone just loves to bash. (Side question ever notice that while people are quick to say MRAs have “legitimate points” they never actually say what they are?) Women like to come up hypothetical scenarios about how would we feel if a woman talked about treating men a certain as if we don’t have… Read more »
Because they don’t see it as a problem and is what it is, but then they compound it by assume that every men must also then must not see it as a problem. The thing is we do see it. We know it’s a problem. We see that women have done it to men without a trace of remorse and without any repercussions. We see that as a problem too, but we’re the only ones who see it. Then they wonder why after men have been told so many times that their feelings, bodies, concerns, and boundaries in “broad daylight”… Read more »
Because they don’t see it as a problem and is what it is, but then they compound it by assume that every men must also then must not see it as a problem. I think its worse than that. They see it. They see that men have a problem with it. But because according to their lexicon its only a problem when it affects women they don’t care and will shame and silence anyone that thinks otherwise or at best they will reframe the issue until its about women and THEN they will allow some care and concern to be… Read more »