Getting past the hang-ups and insecurities that make men feel scary or hostile.
I will admit it. I have had the following thoughts on not one, but multiple occasions:
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Guys are such assholes!
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Guys are such dicks!
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All guys think about is sex!
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Guys are so superficial. All they care about is looks!
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I cannot trust them for shit. They are going to eventually let me down.
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The world would be a much better place without guys!
I fully admit I have not only said some of these myself, for years I might add, but I found them amusing. I am also not the only woman who found them amusing to some degree and thought they were pretty damn accurate in describing the entire male population!
Not too long ago, a friend of mine made a huge realization around her version of these statements. She said she saw how her ‘man-hating beliefs’ had her putting herself in the friend zone with guys on more than one occasion. These were her beliefs:
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You are either someone a guys wants to have sex with or you are not and it stops there.
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Any guy I find attractive will NOT find ME attractive.
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Men just like skinny minnie manic pixie dream girls.
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Men just want to talk to me to get to my more manic pixie dream girl-like friends.
I have definitely had those thoughts as well. Or a version of them. On loop. Most of my life. It was ‘low grade’ man hating, but it still was a disdain and distrust of anything that had a penis.
The way it showed up in my life, in addition to constantly friend zoning myself, was as follows:
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Slightly overweight most of my life
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Avoided sex or felt uncomfortable about it
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Sabotaged relationships
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Dressing in an unflattering way
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The list can go on….
All of these things I did to keep guys away because I did not trust them. Here I thought I loved all human beings on the planet like the good hippie/free spirit I was. But I did not. The lack of love for guys came from a general lack of trust, towards all guys.
Understandably so when I consider the trauma of having my dad leave me and his entire family in the most traumatic way possible at 9 years of age. Or at least understandable as an adult. As a kid, I decided with such a conviction that men are not to be trusted.
Over the course of my high school and college years, I was miserable when it came to relationships. As hard as I tried to play it cool or act like nothing ever happened, that mistrust would not go away. It caused some unnecessary suffering in my life. My stereotyping all men as capable of doing evil things was hurting me more than anything.
A huge problem I found with the ‘all guys’ classification is that anytime you make sweeping generalizations you stop seeing the individual for who they are and only relate to the stereotype. It was a conscious, almost daily effort, to train myself to quit it with the stereotypes. My mantra essentially became:
Not all men are ‘sex crazed shallow douchebags’, just like not all women are ‘catty gold digging self centered bitches’.
Are there people out there like that? Sure. But do they represent their entire gender? I am pretty sure they do not.
It was as if I started seeing the truth of my actions and how unfair it was. I realized that if a majority of women truly feel this way, guys do not stand a chance. They are fucked! We get all huffy about men being women haters and misogynists, yet I (and a lot of women I know) are doing the same exact thing to them. SAME EXACT THING!
What is worse? I felt completely justified in my accusations. It was as if guys ‘deserved it’. That I would not be saying ‘these things’ if they were not ‘true.’ ‘Guys are such assholes. Isn’t it obvious?!’
Luckily I became aware of the following as well: If we as individuals do not look at our beliefs, figure out where they are coming from and do something to shift them to a more positive perspective, then we perpetuate the hating cycle. What’s scarier is we do not even realize what we are doing is a subtle form of hate.
It definitely took some work for me to not only realize my beliefs, but begin to undo and/or replace them. I have gone from a mistrusting, scared person to an open and loving one.
Here’s the kicker though. I am not cured. Not quite yet anyway. I am still very much in recovery.
Just the other day I had an incident that triggered me in a way that was both unexpected and disturbing.
The person I had been dating for months stands me up. He doesn’t mean to. Never does. I remind myself of that constantly because I know it is never intentional. But the fact is he did stand me up. Still feels shitty on this end. Does every time. And I guess it had been one too many times on this occasion. Because I got pissed. Like slamming the countertops style angry.
A few hours later, when I was in rationalization mode, I was furiously working to ‘get over’ my anger. I wanted to cuss him out, yet felt almost wrong for feeling like that. Like I shouldn’t get angry. I was afraid to ‘go there’, i.e. to the dark place. Voices started shouting in my head as if they could telepathically communicate their angst to my boyfriend:
“Why do you do this to me!?”
“Don’t make me hate you!”
“I don’t want to feel like this.”
That last statement caught my attention. So I began to explore why I don’t want to feel like this. This anger, this pissed the EFF OFF, was so foreign for me. Probably because I had done a good job of turning it off most of my life.
Because when my dad left, my first feeling experienced was anger. Then the guilt came soon after. It put a lid on the anger. A pretty tight one for years. Yet it was always there, bubbling underneath the surface.
So this feeling of not wanting to hate my boyfriend, was a fear of going back to hating men in general. To the times I felt insecure and untrusting. Where I wanted to have nothing to do with men. At all. Because my life was better without them.
That is how extreme my thinking would be. Yet that is absolutely not the the space I want to live my life from.
I love men. Ask any one of my closest friends. I am a big advocate for people’s happiness – regardless of your gender. I stick up for guys as much as I do for girls. I mean, I love you guys to the degree of being in an open relationship.
Thankfully, coming back to this conclusion, of my absolute love for guys, did not take a long time. I can catch myself quicker these days. This is what I mean by I am recovering.
These moments of mistrust and fear do come up. Most times they catch me by surprise. But I am getting better. Better at recognizing them for what they are and remembering what I know to be true.
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Guys bring so much to the table.
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Guys have such drive and focus and that’s hot.
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At their essence, guys are protectors and lovers.
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Guys are fascinating in how different they are.
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Guys are sexy mofos.
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Basically, guys RULE!
Photo—miguelb/Flickr
Are you stupid? Why would you be with aman who repeatedlystands you up and then you brainwash yourself into not gettibg angry and just think he never neans it. That us a grand self delusion. in fact any wonan who trusts and loves a man most ttimes is suffering delusion.
Thanks for drawing attention to hatred in a way that doesn’t just project it onto others, but owns it. Much respect. I often find myself helping my clients to own and work with their hatred. I remind them that hatred is just a feeling with a purpose, to motivate us towards discernment about things that can harm us. Like all feelings it is useful when processed intelligently, but can become dangerous and harmful when suppressed or disowned. There’s no one that scares me more than those who don’t think they hate, because their hating is expressed in the most unconscious… Read more »
Agreed Adam. Thank you for the thoughtful explanation of hatred and working with/through it. Much appreciated!
XO,
Natalie
I hear ya, I have every reason to hate women too. Congrats on ditching the bigotry.
It’s my personal belief that most men and women are neither misogynists or misandrists. That it is really only a very small subset of people that *truly* hate the other gender. However, I would say that most of us probably contend with complex relationships with the opposite sex due to our life experiences. When I see someone express anger and/or bitterness to the opposite sex gender, usually, it’s born more out of pain and hurt than it is *real* hate. You can work with anger and bitterness. Hate is a tougher one but it’s not impossible. I have seen aspects… Read more »
I think it’s important for men to give agency to the anger or bitterness women can feel without telling them they simply hate men. And I think it’s important for women to give agency to the anger and bitterness men can feel without telling them they simply hate women. That requires getting over our own insecurties.
Agreed.
Okay I thought for sure I commented with my thanks on this article yesterday but it seems to have disappeared now. Anyway I’ll say again that I enjoyed this article because its shows that you are working on recognizing that men can’t be painted with a single broad brush. Also I appreciate it because this is a pretty stark contrast from other articles where women display and explain their distrust/hatred/etc… of men and then put the onus on men to do the work on changing women’s attitudes about men for them. Thank you for trying to meet us halfway rather… Read more »
you are not a mod anymore?
Yes I am. I just think that I may have commented on another post and thought I posted it here.
I really appreciate and accept that acknowledgement Danny. Some of my big values are Responsibility and Integrity. Taking responsibility for your life, your choices and your success is huge for me. This includes looking at how you can be the change, regardless of what is happening to you or around you. A lot of what I write to women about is in that same vein. Taking control of our own lives because otherwise we are being a victim and giving our power away to others.
You are welcome and thank you so much for your astute observations!
Natalie, You have written a very good piece. Thank you. “The lack of love for guys came from a general lack of trust, towards all guys.” This is a battle, as a man, that I am currently fighting. While I do love women for the human beings they are and their lovely qualities (tenderness, seeming innate spirituality, personality, intellect, compassionate beings, empathetic nature), I have a trust issue with women borne of divorce. At heart, I am a humanist and make sure I “do a good turn” everyday. I continue to make progress in my struggle with the trust issue… Read more »
I hear you Jules. I really do. It is a catch 22 when you have literally experienced something to cause the mistrust, yet we need to build those trust muscles back up. Know you are definitely not alone and leaning back into our humanist values is what will help us navigate through that wind. 🙂
Thank you for the vulnerable sharing of your story as well.
Natalie
Your story reminds me of a zen koan (sort of a japaneese parable) except from the male point of veiw. Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling. Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection. “Come on, girl” said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud. Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. “We monks don’t go… Read more »
Wow. I just had major flash backs Luke. My ex-fiance was the one and only person that ever shared that story with me. I remember it leaving a profound mark in my mind. I do think of it from time to time in certain moments of self reflection – especially around attachment.
Thank you for the retelling of it here. 🙂
Natalie
You can thank my old Karate instructor from 20 years ago, he enjoyed putting us under stress, both physical and mental 🙂
For some weird reason I was looking at koans about a week ago in an idle time at work and stumbled accross it again. When I read your post it seamed apt. I’m glad it also meant something for you as well.
Not surprised with the timing. The universe works in strange ways sometimes. 😉
And it did mean something. It is always great to reflect. In this case, it was another reminder of how much I have changed and grown as a spiritual and human being. So thank you.
@Natalie: Welcome to adulthood. 🙂
It surely feels much better and with fresher air, isn’t it? 😉
Haha. Well shoot Valter, you took the words right out of my soul! I remember being in high school and seeming like the weird kid because I wanted to hurry up and be 30 already. I knew there would be a sense of freedom and wisdom waiting for me that I could not wait to experience. So far, so good (said with thumb up in the air).
Thanks for the hilariously accurate assessment. 😉
You’re most welcome, Nathalie. 🙂
But I have to point out that my use of “adulthood” had nothing to do with age.
I think a person is an “adult” when s/he’s able to take responsibility for his/her own life. When you reach that maturity, you are able to take care of your life, and you stop whining and blaming.
It may happen at 12, 52 or (sadly) never.
That is an interesting point – If a man were to write an article about how he got over being a woman hater, would it be as warmly received?
I believe it would – by any intelligent and mature man or woman here.
Of course, there would still be immature ones that would get their “buttons” pushed by it, and they would get the article all wrong. Just like the Jax reply above.
I think there’s a difference between an article titled “how I stopped being a woman hater” (or similar) being posted on a men’s site and read by men and this article being posted on a men’s site and read by men. For example, the author has this article posted on her own site where it can be read by women, that makes sense to me. As would an article about not hating women aimed at men. But this, when aimed at men, just seems like the author just wants guys to tell her how awesome she is for not hating… Read more »
Thank you for your feedback of how it came across to you. Again, can’t really tell you why the editor may have wanted me to write it for this site. That information was not part of the request. But that was definitely not my intent. Maybe I wanted to share with guys where some of that anger women have may be coming from? Maybe just maybe it will give enough of a peak into some women’s mindset and behavior to allow men to navigate those waters easier. Again, I did not have any intentions besides sharing my story and being… Read more »
Curious that you view it as “aimed at” rather than “presented to.” Language choice says a lot about how we see the world, and it would seem you feel an article published on a Men’s site has been “aimed at” men … like a weapon, something used with specific intent. I think what Natalie has tried to tell you here is that this was written without an agenda (except to spur discussion). She didn’t write this with a particular “target” in mind, or a particular end goal, just a story to tell and share. Writing (and publishing) is often used… Read more »
@KKZ: There is a lot in the language and how we use and interpret it. Clearly(?), an article published on this site is “aimed” at the readers of the site, right? And this being a Men’s site (not a for-men-only, however, thank goodness) means that it’s “aimed” mostly at men. But I read Jax’s “aimed” more like “directed at”, like you turn yourself to your audience when making a speech, and not “pointed at” or targeting, like a weapon. Different interpretation and intention. Just my 2 cents. (And as the author stated, originally it wasn’t even writtten for this site… Read more »
Language choice says a lot about how we see the world, and it would seem you feel an article published on a Men’s site has been “aimed at” men … like a weapon, something used with specific intent. While there is truth to that I’m not sure that rings true here. I’m not writing this to say You’re Wrong, Jax, just prompting you to examine where this feeling of targeting is coming from, and consider the possibility that this article wasn’t fired at men but rather put in front of them for consideration. Bear in mind that while all are… Read more »
Maybe I was feeling poetical this morning but the “aimed at” just really jumped out at me as a word choice that *perhaps* shed light on a deeper, unconscious meaning. Like I said, I don’t think Jax is inherently wrong, just kind of musing on the difference between directing vs. presenting vs. offering, and how that changes how we receive something. Someone can send me an instant message, that’s directed to me. Someone can share a link on their Facebook feed, that’s presented to me. Someone can just tell their personal story, that’s offered to me. The action is the… Read more »
Can I ask what the point of articles like this is? Because the implication is that the woman who writes them (and I’m also talking about the other article of a similar nature that appeared recently, and others that have popped up from time to time) is justified in hating the entirety of the male gender because one (or a handful, or a dozen, or whatever) have harmed her in some way, but because she’s so gosh-darn wonderful she chooses to waive that right in favor of seeing men as individuals, rather than their collective genitalia. Well, gee, thanks. There’s… Read more »
…have harmed her in some way, but because she’s so gosh-darn wonderful she chooses to waive that right in favor of seeing men as individuals, rather than their collective genitalia.
No not because she is so “gosh darn wonderful”. Its because she managed to remember (or learn?) that you really can’t judge an entire group by a subset of them.
Its a lesson that A LOT of people could stand to learn.
Hey Jax, to attempt to answer your questions: I can’t specifically answer the part about what the point is because I was asked by the editor-in-chief to rewrite an existing blog I previously posted on my own site. He thought that instead of me writing to all women, I should write it in first person as to relay my own journey and share it with the readers of GMP. I actually was not hoping to get anything out of this article. It was not to get any pats on the back. It was a sharing of my story that may… Read more »
being a guy who was interested (at the time) in being an elementary school teacher… yeah, that’s when I started seeing the raised eyebrows and the sidelong glances.
Throw in the bisexuality, and there’s a whole new kettle of fish.
Oh man. I could see how that would be frustrating or alienating. I am sorry you had to go through that.
Hey Scott – It is unfortunately true that our attention gets drawn to the negative. But like anything it takes time and the more we put it out there (the positive), the more it is seen as a viable alternative. Agreed as to understanding each other being the antidote to gender inequality or stereotyping. We really all do want the same thing (love, happiness, fulfillment, success) and do the best we can with what we know at any given moment. Thank you for your comment and for the work you are doing in the world! If you ever need some… Read more »
I’d love to bounce some ideas off you. This is my first program so I’m a complete neophyte. How do you contact you?
You can email me at [email protected] 🙂
Hey Natalie, Good job on bringing something positive to the gender debate. I’m trying to do the same in my programs for middle school boys. It’s often harder to sell the positive, people’s attention is much more easily drawn to the negative. But, it sure feels better when you know you’ve contributed to building a bridge rather than a fence. Personally, I think the best way to mend gender relationships is to understand each other better. We are all, men and women, just trying to make are way through life, find someone to love and give meaning to our lives… Read more »
This is great. I hit the worst of my man-hating when Family Guy was at the peak of its popularity and, being in its target demo, almost all of my male friends were speaking almost entirely in Quagmire quotes. Hearing that all the time really lowered my opinion of men in general, and it’s taken a lot of deep conversations with intelligent, reasonable, patient men (many of which happened on this site) to swing my own pendulum back towards center.
Shared this on Facebook. Hope it spurs a discussion. Thanks for writing it.
Hey there! Thanks so much for sharing this with your community. Would be curious to hear what comes of it. Feel free to keep me posted. I love that you had the space and people to have those kinds of conversations. I wholeheartedly agree … once I was ready to shift my way of thinking, the coolest guys came into my life and we were all connecting and loving on each other as people. Thank goodness. Haha.
Thank you as well for taking the time and leaving a comment. So much food for thought!
You’re welcome! No one really took the bait on Facebook – one of the Quagmire-quoting guys (a dear friend, good man and fellow reader of GMP) came forward with a “Who, me?” wink and nod, but that’s it. My interest in gender politics and relations is not shared by many in my social circle, and that’s OK, not everyone has to be into it. But I do have friends who occasionally post anti-man jokes, and even if they don’t jump in to discuss, I hope sharing articles like this one makes them pause and think.
Sometimes that is all we can do my dear … plant the seeds and if the ground is fertile and ready for the offering, it will grow. 🙂
Thanks again for the share!
You deserve a lot of credit for realizing that you were reveling in negativity about men and worked (and are working) to get to the ideal of all genders being equal. I was in that same mindset in my first marriage; after I was separated and dating the woman that I am now sickeningly in love with and married to, I showed her a private blog/journal I had written during that tumultuous end of my marriage. It wasn’t until some time later when she and I were engaged that she told me it was bit unnerving to read that blog… Read more »
Sickeningly in love with? I love it! I appreciate the acknowledgement Doug. I also think it was brave of you to show your innermost thoughts to the person you were dating. It is scary but true that those thoughts do go through our brains. It does take lots of awareness and self work to shift that black or white thinking. So glad to hear it turned around for you. Thank you for the feedback and the encouragement. 😉
Be careful about swinging to the opposite extreme. Watch out for putting men on pedestals. We are certainly not all protectors and lovers, and some of us really are untrustworthy douchebags. We are much better than you used to think we were, but we are not all wonderful either. I think the most important point is the point about variety. We are not ALL anything, not all good and not all bad. That goes for individuals as well. Not one of us is all bad or all good. A lot of people are obsessed with hate today, and by that… Read more »
Thank you for the thoughtful response. Yes, I am well aware that not all men are good either. I think we are TOO aware of that fact.
Sometimes to retrain the brain you need to feed it with the opposite to take the power away from the original belief. Then the pendulum will inevitably rest somewhere in the middle.
You make valid points and I appreciate you sharing them. At the end of the day, it really is about seeing the person in front of you for who they are – flaws and all.
Good article, thanks for helping to rebuild bridges – and congratulations for being able to do so, despite all those who would like to see you wallowing in bitterness for ever.
Agreed as to the challenge of overcoming these types of beliefs when so much of what we hear and see perpetuates them. I am glad you enjoyed the article and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!