We can’t talk about men without talking about boys.
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This is a guest post by Jonathon Reed, a queer activist and educator focused on masculinity and how it is constructed.
Read more stories from Ravishly’s special Conversation series on men and feminism here. Have your own perspective to add? Email [email protected].
We can’t talk about men without talking about boys. People who identify as male are not born subconsciously believing that they deserve to be paid more, for example, or that it is OK to objectify women, or that sexual aggression is excusable. These are things that they learn, both explicitly and implicitly, at a young age.
So what role do men have in the feminist movement? As fathers.
I’m talking about a specific portion of the population, obviously, but it’s an important one. As Judy Chu wrote, boys become aware of masculine norms at an early age, and it is primarily through interpersonal relationships that messages about masculinity and pressures to conform are introduced, reinforced and perpetuated. More specifically, this is done through their relationship with the most important role model in many boys’ lives: their father.
You think the offhand comment about that female politician went unnoticed? You think your son doesn’t hear the subtext when you criticize the outfit of the girl next door? Seriously? Wake up, dad. Every word you say is either perpetuating misogynistic, patriarchal beliefs — or challenging them. You better choose them carefully, because your son is listening.
This doesn’t just apply when you’re talking about women. As Dan Kindlon explained, “boys will be boys” rhetoric is dangerous to feminist discourse because appearing masculine usually relies on being clearly notfeminine — perhaps even anti-feminine. So boys learn to protect themselves by consciously and deliberately attacking in others and in themselves traits that might possibly be defined as feminine.
Among these traits are empathy and compassion — kind of important for engaging in feminist dialogue.
It’s pretty simple. When you ask, either explicitly or implicitly, for your son to adhere to a societal ideal of masculinity, you demand that he cut off those vulnerable parts of himself. It’s the best way he knows how. And it doesn’t really matter where he gets the message, from you or school or pop culture or wherever else. The point is, we teach grade-school boys that the worst thing they can possibly do is throw like a girl. Ten years later, they sexually assault her instead.
Obviously there’s a lot in between, and a lot of that has to do with the feminist movement. The point is, men need to develop trusting and respectful relationships with their sons — relationships that role-model empathic and emotionally literate ways of relating to the people around them. If nothing else, that is their role in the feminist movement.
In other words: Hi, dad. Do you love me today?
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This article originally appeared on Ravishly.
For more like this on Ravishy, try:
Not All Feminists Are Female — Or Even Feminists
New Swedish Study Finds That Boys and Girls Are (Almost) Equally Porn + Sex Obsessed
Meet Gwar’s New Frontwoman: Vulvatron
Photo courtesy of author.
“So what role do men have in the feminist movement? As fathers.” What’s so glaringly apparent (and, in my estimation, errant) is the way this article assumes (and expects its readers to conclude) that, first and foremost, being a feminist is imperative: That being a feminist is being a good feminist; that it’s simply righteous and virtuous and progressive to be one. And more glaringly still, the notion that to be a good man, a good father, or a good person, one therefore needs to be a good feminist: It takes for granted that everyone should simply want and aspire… Read more »
“We can’t talk about men without talking about boys. People who identify as male are not born subconsciously believing that they deserve to be paid more, for example, or that it is OK to objectify women, or that sexual aggression is excusable. These are things that they learn, both explicitly and implicitly, at a young age. ” They’re also not born believing that they’re disposable. Their lives matter less than women’s and they deserve less compassion. They also aren’t born believing they don’t deserve genital integrity. These don’t seem to be a concern for feminists and so men’s role in… Read more »
Strawman arguments everywhere and not a drop of compassion to be seen. This article has been wasted on the three of you – 8Ball (really? A drug reference?), Ratty (nice one), and Rick. “But what about ME? The article didn’t mention ME and MY woes.” Geez. I don’t read articles about women being more understanding towards men and whine about the article not mentioning men being more understanding towards women. There are all kinds of articles, this one happens to focus on men teaching boys to be kind and respectful to girls/women. There are tons sites that focus on self-centered… Read more »
Talk about straw manning when you jump straight to the conclusion that it was a drug reference…
And no there are very few articles calling women out on there behaviours. But there are millions inventing problems that don’t exist or are full of lies, painting men as bad. This happens to be one such article. And you can’t even keep to arguing the content and instead revert shaming tactics, telling people that they are whiners. Nice double standard you’ve set for yourself
Drug reference? It’s a BILLIARDS reference. I’m not even sure what drug reference you think I’m making (which says more about YOU than me, I think, Michelle.)
And now that we’re past the ad hom portion of your comment…
This is a site for men’s issues Michelle, and I’m frankly tired of it being just another feminist guilt trip. You know which sites I don’t go on? Feminist sites. Why? Because those are supposed to be about women. I can respect that, why can’t you?
I googled it and it’s street slang for a measurement of cocaine. Where have you been hanging out Michelle…
What? ‘Billiards’!? I thought ‘8-ball’ was just that magic thing that had Bart Simpson that told him the future in that episode of ‘The Simpsons’ a few years back… Just what are these ‘billiards’ you speak of now? Some sort of ethnic food? Or is ‘Billiards’ some sort of new social media thing, like ‘Twitter’ or ‘Skype’ – I can’t keep up with you kids all your new things these days. 😉
“Strawman arguments everywhere and not a drop of compassion to be seen.”
What you accuse others of, you have also done yourself.
I never knew my father. My mother divorced him when I was an infant. I did know several men that came into and out of my mother’s life however. That, more than anything, shaped my view of women. Let’s just say that my mother got around quite a bit and that I’ll never get married or have kids. Women are not sugar and spice and everything nice.
And another thing… What about the role of the mother in her daughters life? If a woman sleeps with a cast of thousands behind her children’s father’s back and then, when he rightfully files for divorce, she gets the kids and a massive chunk of his income. What message is this giving to the daughter in the equation? That it’s okay to go behind you husbands back and have sex with whever you want because no matter what happens you’ll still get to keep the kids, a roof over your head and a massive chunk of his salary with little… Read more »
Well the only script they had to follow was the social sanction of husbands being allowed to sleep with as many women as they wanted and to even house a mistress on the same properly as their wife, because it was their right! And the men got the kids and money if there was a divorce which was initiated by men. The script has flipped!
“make sure you care about your sons, not because they’re your offspring or anything, but because it might affect hypothetical women down the road someday, maybe.”
Still waiting for the article where you tell mothers not to insult their husbands because it might affect how their daughters view men, by the way.
I don’t get it. Why does every single article about men/boys being kind or respectful to women/girls have to also address women/girls being kind to boys? There ARE articles about women being good to men – you can find them everywhere and that’s great. Women/girls should be kind and respectful to men/boys, but this article happens to NOT be about that. Not every article has to center around women being good to men. You’re entirely missing the point of the article and instead seem to be whining, “But what about MEEE!?” You might want to look deeper into why that… Read more »
“There ARE articles about women being good to men”
Name three. Especially on this site.
Gotta agree with you. As boys growing up in the west we are trained from as early as we can remember to not hit girls, to be polite and respectful towards women. I was the little brother to two sisters. They picked on me until we got to be equal in strength and I was able to fight back. Then it became “No hitting.” Where ARE these articles supporting a philosophy of being kind and respectful toward boys and men? When domestic violence is perpetrated 40% toward men, how often is any compassion extended toward men? Where are any shelters… Read more »
“I don’t get it. Why does every single article about men/boys being kind or respectful to women/girls have to also address women/girls being kind to boys?” Because, in the end, it always transcends gender. Always has, always will. It’s just common sense. IMHO. I wouldn’t presume to speak for anyone else on this Michelle, but I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong in the expectation (and its acknowledgement) for respectfulness to be reciprocal, across genders, irrespective of gender. Gender missives like this miss the point because they presume & assert that when one particular demographic (gender male) is disrespectful… Read more »
I like what you’re saying!
The same reason boys are taught to “not hit girls” instead of being taught “not to hit” like that new video where boys are asked to hit a girl and their response is “I’m/you’re not supposed to hit girls”… If they were taught differently their response would be “I’m/you’re not supposed to hit people.” It always boggles my mind that people don’t pick up on THIS instead of obsessing over boys knowing not to hit girls… they basically lose the message that it’s ok to hit and be physically aggressive as long as it’s not toward girls. and they wonder… Read more »
I can’t remember exactly how they worded it, but another poster on the GMP once put it very succinctly and eloquently something like: ‘The reason we all need to be kind to each other is because we ARE each other.’
Yet how do you explain the ‘bad’ behaviour of boys who never have a male role model. More and more boys are raised by single mothers and go to schools where all the teachers are women. Yet it’s the bad male role models that are to blame? Do you know anything about Juvenal delinquency and fatherlessness? Also you are confusing sex and gender. According to your types I can choose to be man woman or neither or both. Male or female or intersexed is based on genitals. Never ceases to amaze me how gender theorists get themselves lost in their… Read more »
He did mention pop culture as another potential factor. It’s pretty much everywhere. Bad role models certainly aren’t the only factor, but it’d be naive to assume they aren’t a factor at all.
Okay now provide me with evidence that men on average think they should be paid more or that the same average joe is sexist (more so than the average woman) or is sexually aggressive (is that ment to suggest rape?). And once you have proved that, prove that it’s pop culture that causes this. And if you can make that connection then explain how feminists actively blocking fathers to there children helps?