“Let her know how I feel? Are you crazy? The last time I did that, she threw it in my face the very next time we had an argument. I felt like a fool for letting my guard down with her.”
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Tom: Holy cow, Margaret, you committed us? We have to cover all the expenses for the Christmas party — decorations, catering and everything?
Margaret: Yes, darling. Why?.
Tom: I don’t think you have any idea how much that terrifies me.
Margaret: What are you talking about?
Tom: I’m talking about you committing us to expenditures we can’t afford. I just finished paying off Thanksgiving. I’m really afraid we won’t be able to pay for all the stuff you want to do.
Margaret: You’re really ‘terrified’?
Tom: Well, yeah. I really do get terrified. It scares me every time I look at our expenses every month. We’re spending way more than we make.
Margaret: Tom, you are such a coward. I sometimes wonder why I married you.
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Women are socialized to be indirect while men are encouraged to be direct.
Powerful social forces come into play in a girl’s life that discourage her from behaving the same way as boys. “Little ladies don’t hit other children,” nor should they be “bossy,” or impolite, they are told. Direct aggression can sometimes gradually morph into very oblique methods of getting one’s way and hurting others.
When women introduce this passive style of fighting to their relationships with males, they find their partners ill prepared to deal with its subtlety, its meanness. For men, it can be a sucker-punch.
Guys may try to choose reason or persuasion as a response, but they prove to be flimsy responses to passive statements.
If “winning” is what’s important, you may be tempted to do anything, so long as it “works.” Indeed, you may succeed in winning every argument. But, we may want to ask ourselves this question: How many arguments do you have to win to have a happy marriage?
Some may argue that women are often “mean” to men for “good reason.” Men sometimes do things, frequently without thinking, that really hurt women. Women remember those things. So, when they see an opportunity to hurt their partner back, they jump at the chance. Often, they do so hoping the guy will want to know why, to open a discussion about how the woman has been hurt. But only under remarkable circumstances does that strategy work. More often, like the individual in our example, a man is instantly repelled by a woman’s betrayal. The last thing he wants is a deeper discussion about her feelings.
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This is a pity because a conversation about hurt feelings is exactly what needs to take place.
Rather than striking back, we need to have the courage to let our partner know when and how we’ve been hurt. This might be more natural for women, but some men are going to struggle with this.
How can partners create an atmosphere that welcomes an open expression of their partner’s feelings?
This can be more vulnerable for men. They might need to learn how to talk about their feelings. They may have been shamed for doing so in the past. It would be a terrible mistake to think that men are incapable of talking about their emotions. In men’s groups, men honor the feelings expressed by other participants, encouraging each other to let submerged emotions come to the surface. Knowing the courage it takes for a guy to let others see how he feels, they come to realize how important this is. This new awareness of what it takes to connect helps to offset the foolish notion that an emotional man is a weak man.
Men are often worried that a woman will see any display of vulnerability (especially expressions of hurt, fear or anxiety) as weakness. They are afraid of what a woman will think. They would benefit greatly from being more concerned about their own integrity, have more respect for their own feelings.
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Clear, open, and honest communication restores intimacy.
If a woman expresses disrespect (“throws his feelings in his face”) when a man reveals what he’s feeling, rather than hiding, he needs to stand up for his own feelings. He may want to confront his partner with her lack of respect.
A woman who wants a strong, loving relationship with a man can’t afford to minimize his feelings. Jumping on a guy’s emotional honesty like it’s some kind of prize does damage.
We all need to identify what we really value in a relationship. If we want “intimacy” we need to cherish our partner’s openness. Not just in the moment of its expression, but forever! Our partner’s vulnerability is a gift of great value. We mustn’t betray that trust whenever it suits us, simply to win an argument or to get our own way.
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Are We Really Ready for Emotionally Intelligent Men?
What Men Are Saying When They Talk About Intimacy
Photo: Tony Alter/Flickr
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Her response was a manipulative sucker punch. The only way it works is if he has already been manipulated by patriarchy. The word “coward” shouldn’t precipitate actual cowardice. It should initiate confrontation of manipulation. And why is saying I’m afraid i can’t afford x when it is their money together. I’m afraid WE can’t afford x y z. In this example HE feels like a failure because he buys into the idea that a man is only a man if he can buy ANYTHING his woman wants…..HE is the one with the problem because he is a gold spreader that… Read more »
BTW, I think we bandy this word patriarchy way too much as a simple explanation of the way things always are. Culture is a strange beast and there are all sorts of power plays that make it up. Is women’s use of sexual power patriarchy? Maybe. What about manipulation for material goods? Perhaps. But maybe not either. Yes we have a culture of patriarchal thought. Would matriarchal thought be any better? Maybe not. The same negotiations will still be going on for different needs between people.
I was wondering the same thing. If patriarchy is everywhere and explains everything, then what’s the point of talking about relationships at all? It’s not much different than an evangelical saying “it’s all part of God’s plan.”
Anyway, let’s say that the whole rotten dynamic of the relationship is because of patriarchy. Then end the relationship. Walk away from her. If the husband is merely a pawn of patriarchy, then he should stop being her husband. If the marriage is not in the woman’s interest, after all…..
That’s a great question, kal. When this kind of thing happens a person is either overwhelmed by the disrespect or gets defensive and angry. If it happens to a guy he usually gets mad and fights back to show he’s not that coward. A woman generally reacts by shutting down, at least in my experience. My ex wife was like that, and when she pulled that I initially fought back and of course fed into her nonsense. After that I learned to just walk away. She escalated it because her goal was to get me engaged and when one day… Read more »
In my limited experience, it has seemed to be the opposite, that it’s the guy (me) who shuts down and the woman who keeps scrapping. Probably a question of gender roles but also personalities.
When I’m not feeling listened to, then I stop bothering trying to be listened to, because it feels like a waste of breath. When other people feel not listened to, they just yell louder or act more obnoxious. They’re about equally ineffective.
Hi Rickard Gatley
Any insider tips on how a man may in a good way stand up for his own feelings and confront his partner with her lack of respect when she calls him a coward for having them in the first place?
I recommend the book _Saying What’s Real_. No one should have to accept name-calling and disrespect, no matter what their gender. Calling someone a coward is not adult or respectful behavior, and it’s usually a sign of some fundamental problems in a relationship.
Hi FlyingKal
Lots of women have the same problem,and I am one.
I think we should react to emotional abuse the same way we would if a person,a partner hits us ( as in domestic violence)and see it as a deal breaker.
It is not love!
Can you say a person that can not tolerate your true feelings , really love you?
“Can you say a person that can not tolerate your true feelings really loves you?”
Exactly this. What is the point of being with this person if she cannot and/or won’t listen to you? You are not in a peer-to-peer relationship at that point, so you need to ask yourself why you’re putting yourself through all that.
Figure out what you’re getting from this disrespect, and consider the possibility that you could find a healthier source for it.
so, why is it that some of my comments are moderated out as spam and others aren’t?
Hi Bobbt
It happens to some of us that our message is seen as spam.
I use to send a mail to LIsa here at ‘GMP and she fixes it . But this a problem that arises often and they do not know what to do .
Richard, I use to have a pretty regular argument with an ex-boyfriend. He engaged in a behavior he felt was harmless but I felt was disrespectful. He felt that I didn’t trust him and I felt disrespected by this behavior. Whenever I would share my feelings on this topic, he would get more closed off and angry with me. I was not throwing his feelings in his face but our feelings where such polar opposites of each other on this topic. What do you do in those situations? And what do you do when you honestly aren’t using your partner’s… Read more »
Just one guy’s POV: Very good questions here. I think is a very common thing that many people experience. And, you make a good point that HE may think his feelings are getting thrown back in his face, even if that’s not what she’s actually doing. She may be sincerely trying to have an honest exchange but he doesn’t hear it that way. I know as a man in a relationship that I’ve come to that conclusion incorrectly. One thing I recommend is when listening to his feelings hold off for a little bit before sharing how you feel about… Read more »
WellOkayThen, I tried to respond to you like a week ago but GMP smust be holding up my comment or not putting it up at all. I don’t know. Thanks for the advice. I have never done “summarizing and reflect back what he said” and that sounds like really good advice. It will be difficult to do because “summarizing and reflecting back” something that was difficult to hear in the first place is going to be difficult to say in return. It’s also hard to not share what your feeling in response immediately because that’s really how I’m use to… Read more »
It’s very hard not to react right away, and no one can be a good listener all the time. Another thing I recommend, and I know it sounds wishy-washy, is to take a little time-out. You can work with the other person to schedule a time to talk about it later when the moment isn’t so intense. Sometimes it’s just a matter of good old fashioned kindergarten etiquette, like taking turns. (Goes both ways, of course. He has to be willing to listen to you as well. If there’s a miscommunication, it’s usually BOTH people’s fault.) I’m no expert on… Read more »
Wellokaythen,
I don’t think you’re weird at all. In fact I totally agree with you so much you could be narrating my life!
So at least, that makes 2 of us 😉
Yay! Not all my money spent on therapy was wasted…. ; – )
Wow! This article almost brings tears to my eyes. Thank you for another genuine, raw, and wholehearted post! As much as I have pushed myself out of an immature, distrustful, and scared mentally in dating and relationships, I am sure I still project old insecurities in new relationships and make conclusions about the man that may not be completely warranted. However, I refuse to accept the mentality of gender role as being exclusive to specific levels of vulnerability and emotional expression. As much as it hurts, I just ended a short relationship with a man who was delivering inconsistent messages… Read more »
Good for you! You walked away from a at best substandard relationship AND you told him why. Any man who doesn’t ‘grow’ as in self improvement from that, well that’s on him. Honestly, when I glance around at the state of relationships in my son’s age group (early 20’s) I can’t believe how many ‘man-children’ are out there. Even in my Daughters age group (early 30’s). The older ones are really pathetic as in ‘After all this time , you’re STILL clueless as how to properly treat a Woman? I wonder if part of the reason for this ‘Fatherless Households’… Read more »
I am a woman and a feminist. I know that what other feminists call patriarchy and what I personally call gender roles puts pressure on everyone but I can’t help with it, when someone tells a story like that and someone jumps in with a book-long dissertation that says how it’s patriarchy’s fault. I just reminds me of those who say “but not all men”. Even though it is absolutely true, in a context like that, it’s a deffensive, desperate and out of place attempt to get someone not to hate you and pull it on your team when it’s… Read more »
Cynthia, I have no reason to tell a “don’t hate me” story. That is your interpretation. And you are doing what patriarchy does to women: disregarding my feelings and blaming me for my bad experience with an oppressor. This is very common. I just had to point it out. Maybe I can help you understand by giving you an example… Let’s just say that you go to the doctor with a stomach ache. She runs some tests and says, “It seems that you got a virus from eating out. That’s what the ache was about”. Is she blaming the food… Read more »
Thanks Banu for tips about Sidra Stone !
What I’m saying is that it’s just like “NotAllMen”…it bings it down to My suffering, what men do to US, How WE fell about that. OUR guilt or absence of guilt in that. No matter who says it, it’s selfishness. And presuming that women who don’t think like you are prey to some “inner patriarchy” (i.e., that what you don’t like about us must be the product of men somehow, it just can’t be of our own thought) is a splendid example of gaslighting and a huge reason why women don’t call themselves feminists. They already have men and gender… Read more »
Banu, One of the characterizing traits of “patriarchy” is the disposability of men, i.e. Men, especially those who are not classified as REAL MEN by definitions of money, power, penis size, etc… Men are not valued as important in themselves, but only valued for what they can provide for society, for example in putting themselves in harms’ way for the benefit of others. Just like in your example of a GOOD man being expected to throw himself in front of a car to save someone else. You might ask who cares about the wellbeing of that man. But then again… Read more »
Hi FlyingKal, That is a good point. Thanks for bringing it up. An open heart is appreciated by anyone and it is not gender specific. A “hero” can be a woman or a man, yet women would not be appreciated for their small heroic acts (like working two jobs to support her three kids by herself after her husband takes off with a woman ten years younger than her) because she is expected to be a nurturer anyway. The point of this conversation (and GMP) is recognizing how we can be better versions of ourselves to uplift and empower everyone.… Read more »
I consider myself a feminist, but I think this approach to patriarchy can be counter-productive. What some of my feminist sisters have done is create an image of patriarchy as an unstoppable monster. I think it’s a monster as well, but making it seem totally indestructible is not helping anyone. The way they tell it, patriarchy must be the most powerful, most durable thing ever created by human beings. It’s been around for 10,000 years, and no matter how hard people try, no one has ever successfully broken out of it. Women have tried for 10,000 years to break out… Read more »
Banu, The other day I averted an accident waiting to happen by the mall, when I helped a kid, 3-4 years old, I don’t know, to find her parents instead of running around yelling on a pitch black parking space. But surely noone got “uplifted” by that. Since the parents hadn’t even noticed the kid was missing, I mostly got the dirty eye of “How dare you touch your hands on our kid?!?” from the parents and anyone around. (which I technically didn’t even do, I just got down to the kid’s level, talked to her and pointed her in… Read more »
The first time she does this, let her know flat out that this behavior will not be tolerated. Then walk away.
This is a great article, Richard. Thank you. I totally agree, we don’t make it safe enough for men to express their feelings and we all suffer for it. I see one main reason (with many roots) for all this man/women, feelings and power dilemma: Patriarchal teachings. The same system that makes men feel powerful and in charge also oppresses them at the same time. “How so”, one might ask? Well, Patriarchy says that the measure of a man is determined by: sexual prowess, size of penis, financial status, physical strength, height, ability to hide emotions and (now more so… Read more »
Thanks for the patriarchy deflection. We were sorely lacking that in these comments.
Banu, Let me make sure I’m hearing this correctly. When women dismiss men’s feelings, this is a backlash against patriarchy, because men have been doing the same to women for thousands of years. If I understand correctly, this means that men today are being punished for things that other men have done for thousands of years before they were born. Did I get that right? Ironically, this sounds like the same dubious logic as the whole “original sin” concept. That thing where all humans are sinful because Eve sinned first. Or the genocidal “blood libel” idea that Jews are cursed… Read more »
I find that a lot of women do this because this is what is done to them when they share their feelings. They are just ‘giving back” what they have gotten. When you are taught that your feelings are proof of you being “lesser” you will jump at the chance to put others in the lesser category as well. when someone uses your emotional expression as proof of weakness, and therefore lack of worth, then you will jump at the chance to point out their “weakness” and prove that they aren’t “better than” when they express the same thing that… Read more »
“I find that a lot of women do this because this is what is done to them when they share their feelings. ” Lynn: Most of the time, women are encouraged to share their feelings, especially with other women. It is almost expected by society. If women are shot down for expressing their feelings, it is usually by other women. There is a reason, a woman hasn’t made it to the white house. There is a lot of sexist attitudes still in the U.S. Most of it is coming from Women themselves. Men are conditioned to “Tolerate” women feelings, from… Read more »
This is your personal opinion or you private hypotheses ….. and you do not know what women experience through life.
Show me men that are told they are HYSTERICAL when they show feelings.
The feelings women are raised to show are the feelings that is accetable with tradiction female roles.
plus a certain way to show strength that is not seen as being dominant,
It my meaning that any man and woman that experiece invalidation when they show feelings should answer that invalidation of ones feelings is the worst kind of emotional abuse.
Men aren’t told they’re hysterical for displaying emotion, they’re just routinely emasculated for showing anything other than stoicism or anger. This is also a form of invalidating a person’s emotional experience, and it happens a LOT to men. I don’t believe women are ever essentially told that in sharing their emotional experience, they are somehow “less” of a person (“woman”). They may be described as “hysterical” or “irrational”, but they are not habitually denied personhood or gender identity for emotional displays. Men are denied constantly just that. Why do you think phrases like “Man up” exist?
Mark A
I do not know how other women feel about this., but you are right.
I do not feel somebody can take away my gender identity if they call me hysterical, or if I can not have children or are not attractive to any man on earth.,I am still a woman even if I never feel feminine.
They can damage me emotionally but that is not the same thing as loosing a feeling of gender.,
And it is impossible for me to understand how men feel about this. I do not get it,
“Men aren’t told they’re hysterical for displaying emotion, they’re just routinely emasculated for showing anything other than stoicism or anger. This is also a form of invalidating a person’s emotional experience, and it happens a LOT to men. ”
I think Mark A. said this perfectly. I couldn’t agree more.
Angelguy
“I find that a lot of women do this because this is what is done to them when they share their feelings. ”
All abusers say “it’s because it’s been done to me before”. All abusers.
It shouldn’t be an excuse for anyone.
U go, gurl!
My psychotic, borderline ex-gf was emotionally abusive to the extreme and justified her behavior by claiming she had PTSD because of her previous bf. I got sick of her excuses and her refusal to take responsibility(plus her extreme emotional immaturity) and finally walked away from that toxic cesspool of a relationship.
One of the better articles I have read on GMP. I think this sums up many situations Men are facing in relationships with Women, both intimate and plationic. “A woman who wants a strong, loving relationship with a man can’t afford to minimize his feelings. Jumping on a guy’s emotional honesty like it’s some kind of prize does damage.” That last statement, jumping on a guys emotional honesty like it’s some kind of prize is something that needs to be confronted with Women. Many women I have encountered seem to be blind to this action. They are openly rude and… Read more »
“Many women I have encountered seem to be blind to this action.”
Uh, no their not.
Uh, how do you know that? Have you met the women he’s encountered? Why belittle his experiences? Women can be extremely mean. I know there are plenty of women out there who stomp on male hearts and psyches, and have no idea how much hurt they cause, or maybe don’t even care they cause harm. It can be because we’re taught that men can take it, or that they have less feelings, etc. Now, these women might have issues of their own for doing this, maybe low self esteem, they have empathy issues, or an abusive father figure or whatever,… Read more »
I’m not trying to belittle his experience. I’m just saying he might be mistaken in assuming these women were ‘Blind’ to what they are doing,as in they don’t realize what they are doing. I’ve found quite often woman do in fact know what they are doing and do it so as to ‘cut the man down’.
No, you didn’t say he “might” be mistaken, you declared flat-out that he was wrong about those specific women.