In the third of a five-part series on love and relationships, Tom Matlack and author Laura Munson debate the question: Why do young women and older men get along so well?
MUNSON: I was raised by an “old man.” My father was 50 and gray when I was born. He used words like “davenport,” “filling station,” and “ice box.” His mother was born in the 1800s and she lived in a nursing home in her last years, where we visited her every night. My father would pass by the rooms and look in and say, “That man used to be the CEO of Sears and Roebuck. It’s hell to get old.” But I noticed that those old men loved me. In fact, as my father aged, his friends would occupy my dance card, as it were, at a multi-generational gathering. And I obliged. I wasn’t scared of their liver spots, canes, and quivering voices. I knew that it was hell to get old, and I was happy to walk arm-in-arm with them through the door, or to get them a plate of food so they wouldn’t have to get up off the “davenport.”
And let’s be honest—I knew that I was “giving an old guy a thrill.” I’d heard it in those exact words from plenty of them. They thanked me for things boys my age often missed: simple things like my smile, my thin ankles—and they meant it. As an adult, I wonder why that is. Is it that men never outgrow their need to feel important to a woman, and their own wives and contemporary lady friends have long soured on stoking their egos? Maybe so.
But why would a young girl oblige? What’s in it for her? I think it’s because I knew there was no threat of sex. No threat for a jealous episode with a girlfriend. I knew I didn’t have to prove myself. They liked my ankles and my smile and that was enough. It was a win-win. I watched that win-win all the way to my father’s deathbed, where he flirted with the nurses. I forgave him for it and so did they. Maybe it’s one of life’s secret agreements.
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MATLACK: Natasha Vargas-Cooper writes in her recent Atlantic article “Hard Core”: “One of the most punishing realities women face when they reach sexual maturity is that their maturity is (at least to many men) unsexy.”
Yes, I think old men asking young women to dance is one thing—it’s cute and harmless—but that it isn’t what’s really going on most of the time. There is a sexual component. There are countless old guys married to young women, and many more older men masturbating to images of young women on the Web. I don’t pretend to completely understand it, but I viscerally believe it is a sellout to true love and goodness on both sides.
I concede that true love is ageless, and that an outsider can never know what happens behind closed doors in a marriage. I would never comment on the success or failure of any particular couple, but the societal phenomenon of old guys and young women is worth talking about.
I sometimes think that marriage is like a boxing match. When the sparring partners are well matched, it goes on and on, with blood and guts on the canvas and beauty emerging from the violence of the engagement. When older men marry younger women, the partners have given up on the idea of going head-to-head with their peer in age and in power. The male and female roles are exaggerated into some kind of daddy-daughter dynamic that is somehow more comfortable than trying to slug it out with someone your own age.
When they give in to the Woody Allen “the-heart-wants-what-the-heart-wants” gravitational pull, both parties make a concession. The much younger woman embodies vitality and beauty—and the guy’s power, defined in its rawest form, becomes the central aphrodisiac. Everyone knows where they stand.
I can’t help but be saddened when I see this pattern over and over again among my friends and in the newspapers, because at bottom it points to our collective obsession with superficialities. We worship material wealth and youth. And boobs.
Money and power or teenage-model good looks don’t make anyone happy in the long term—contrary to the consistent message of popular culture.
At the extreme, both the old man and the young woman are stooping to a commercial transaction—prostituting themselves. She’s selling youth, beauty, and sex, and he’s buying it. Whether you’re sleeping with a guy for $100 or $100 million, it’s all the same. Both sides of the trade miss out on something more genuine than sex, and the kids miss out on having a dad—since most of these guys will be in retirement homes (or dead) by the time their children make it to college.
But maybe I am just being a prude. New research shows that this whole thing is about the survival of the race. The practice of older men chasing younger women may contribute to human longevity and the survival of the species.
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MUNSON: I find it interesting that when I read the question, I didn’t read the phrase “get along so well” as having to do with sex or marriage. I thought about it in terms of dynamic. I don’t have any friends who have fit into that societal stereotype, wherein the old man marries the young hot girl with the “boobs.” I think of that scenario as a myth some people might give in to, and I’m not that interested in it. I think we would do better as a society to start shifting away from these myths. I don’t even believe in the male “midlife crisis.” But I do believe that it’s sold to men, from the time they’re kids, that the prize is youth in women and wealth in men. And I do believe in the power of that lie. Let’s tell ourselves a different story, shall we?
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Read others in this series: “Great Sex or Fighting Fair?“ and “Looks and Longterm Fidelity.”
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Laura A. Munson, author of This Is Not the Story You Think It Is, wrote one of the most widely read and talked about New York Times Modern Love columns ever: “Those Aren’t Fighting Words, Dear.” She lives with her family in Montana. You can visit her website, and find her on Facebook and Twitter.
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—Photo by Gizmo2469/photobucket
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Tom Matlack, together with James Houghton and Larry Bean, published an anthology of stories about defining moments in men’s lives — The Good Men Project: Real Stories from the Front Lines of Modern Manhood. It was how the The Good Men Project first began. Want to buy the book? Click here. Want to learn more? Here you go.
When it comes to this topic, a lot of people speak out of their own experiences and prejudice. I’m a 33yr old woman who adores the older man. Most of my friends my age are married to men in their early to middle 40’s and are extremely happy depending on their compatibility as well as, the personality of that guy. I have noticed that older men don’t mind his mate pursuing her goals and going after her dreams in life as they plan for their future together. Whereas, younger men have to be dominant and be the bread winner of… Read more »
I don’t have strong polarized opinions on too many things. However, there is something wrong with a man who wants to have a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman young enough to be his daughter. Spare me the evolutionary biology arguments. Seeing as how I’m a reasonable person, I’ll admit there are probably exceptions. I have a close friend whose husband is 25 years older than her. Another friend whose husband is 15 years older than her. I’m not sure where you draw the line in terms of “young” and “old”. How big can the gap be before it’s… Read more »
My wife is over 30 years younger than me. We met in her Asian country when I doing some work for an NGO. She is beautiful and has the body of a model. She has been in the U.S. for about two years now and cannot understand why young women here want to be with young men who cannot be trusted. For her, it’s all about maturity and trust. Young men cannot be trusted to be faithful. Most of the people who commented on this site do not have a clue what this issue is all about. Find out for… Read more »
What a MORON !
Dumb ASS !
It would be stupid to say that it’s not about looks or the physical side at all, but it’s often more than that. Younger women appeal to older men for all sorts of reasons beyond the fact that their bodies are younger. Women as they get older can become quite bitter (and I’m sure men are often to blame for that!), more depressed, less spirited, etc. The nightmare stereotype of the man leaving his wife for a younger woman tends to assume that his wife is completely the same woman she was 15 years before except for physical changes, but… Read more »
Well, maybe the husband can help his wife out of her depression or bitterness instead of just turning her in for a not yet scathed specimen
@The Original article.
Ahh but you’re forgetting the reason men & women exist in nature & how we are in nature. Don’t care how many big buildings we build, banks we have or carscellpodiphones you have.. we’re all still human animals. Nature tells a guy when he sees a hot woman get with that.. she’ll make you look good,feel good, keep your gene pool filled.. far too often we chat about, society this and society that.. and we completely forget about human nature.
I don’t think anyone is forgetting human nature. I think the point is that human nature extends beyond the biological. It encompasses every diverse aspect of ourselves. Rumspringa, what if a woman didn’t waste her *prime* years chasing “McSteamys” and divorcing husbands? What if she was in a stable relationships and HE left HER? You act like there is only one situation in life and for that situation, all women deserve to be left and disrespected. And even IF a younger woman dates you, an older man, she will age too. I think you’re just threatened in general by women.… Read more »
Read Women Who Run With the Wolves, Skeleton Woman, a story about men who dare to stay with the deepening process as he and his partner age. It takes great depth and and Courage to sit with a Woman’s Wisdom.I think only the most Brave of men get there;)
However, said good man would probably have divorced his wife when she got older or he’d be cheating on her with younger women, right? Women just can’t win.
Not if he keeps it in his pants
I am in a wonderful relationship with an older man. And when I saw your post come across Twitter today, I couldn’t help but chime in. I have to warn you… I am not a wordsmith. But for those who may be interested, here is my two cents from a woman who doesn’t rely on statistics and writes just like I speak. When my man was in his 20s & having children with his first wife, I was a pre-teen, dancing in my underwear singing into a hairbrush. Now his children are having children, and mine are in elementary and… Read more »
I will second Hugo’s praise of Tom’s comment : “…but I viscerally believe it is a sellout to true love and goodness on both sides.” Because that’s how it was for me when I was younger and dated older men. I was a late bloomer and in my early 20s I learned that older men appeared to be more interested in me then men my own age. Perhaps it was because I always had an easier time relating to older people, both men and women. And older men were not as sexually threatening to me as men my age where.… Read more »
Erin, thank you for speaking from experience and giving your fair and dispassionate view on this matter. From my own experience, almost everything you said was spot-on. Cheers!
I’m in my 40’s now but when I was in my 20’s I had a few relationships with older guys. I agree with what you are saying. The older guys had more money and status than guys my age but i never felt like they really appreciated me as a person. They were just addicted to the thrill of being with a younger woman. I felt like nothing else really mattered to them. They were just happy to have a younger woman, any younger woman. I had no other qualities that seemed to matter to them. In the end it… Read more »
As an older man who divorced and remarried (both times to age-appropriate women), I dated two women who were out of my age bracket in the interregnum. Twenty-four age difference on one, and twenty-eight onn the other. Some observations: 1. Older men are likely to be far better lovers than younger ones. I don’t understand the comment about older men not being as interested in asex above. I’ve never noticed. And ED drugs now help, contra the article here a couple of weeks ago. Some of us could and can go all night, if that’s what the lady wants. At… Read more »
“but I viscerally believe it is a sellout to true love and goodness on both sides.”
Bingo, Tom. Thank you for that.
Here’s a sad story, billionaire marries a 16 yro Brazilian, has three kids and lives common-law in Quebec. He files for separation and provides a mansion and servants for her and the children. She responds by going to the supreme court to get at his fortune. IUC Exclusive: Ex lawyers of gold-digging Model suing Cirque du Soleil Prez Reveal All To IUC hxxp://ianundercover.com/2009/01/28/iuc-exclusive-ex-lawyers-of-gold-digging-model-suing-cirque-du-soleil-prez-reveals-all/comment-page-1/#comment-77478 IUC Exclusive: Cirque Du Soleil Billionaire Guy Laliberte took care of Gold-Digging ex lover’s Family For Years Despite Being Constantly Harassed hxxp://ianundercover.com/2009/01/29/iuc-exclusive-cirque-du-soleil-billionaire-guy-laliberte-took-care-of-gold-diggers-family-for-years-despite-being-constantly-harassed/ IUC Exclusive: Cirque Du Soleil Billionaire Guy Laliberte was crushed when ex Brazilian gold-digger lover… Read more »
Correction, they didn’t marry but lived common-law and that is the big issue.
I’m not so sure its such a horrible thing. An older man brings maturity and wisdom and sensibility that many women (of all ages) might find attractive. There are perfectly good reasons why a younger woman might find an older man attractive — besides his wallet. As for the other way around. First, in general younger women are more attractive. I didn’t create mankind, so don’t shoot the messenger. It’s just true, and so what? Second, a younger woman is often enough more likely to worship and respect an older man than someone his own age — and for most… Read more »
This piece in this week’s New Yorker made me rethink some of what I wrote, about a 48 year old man and his 20 something wife. One of the best pieces I have read in a long time (even if it made me cry). Check it out. They don’t allow links so you will need to track it down. But worth the effort.
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THE WAVE:A tragedy in Mexico.
by Francisco Goldman is about the writer’s marriage to Aura Estrada and Estrada’s death from injuries suffered in a swimming accident at Mazunte, Mexico, in 2007.
I read that article twice. Good to see you’ve reconsidered some of the views you express here. Leave to the Hugo Schwyzers of this world the masochistic notion that if you’re over 40, you can only date women medically certified as having gone through menopause.
There will always be outliers. This story is one of those. I’d still like to see these couples participate in psychological studies – depending on the age gap, controlling for it in fact, that will possibly glean narcissism in men and abuse/neglect/absent fathers in the women. That supports that authors daddy-daughter theory and twists in a little incestuous attraction – but it’s okay because they aren’t really related. Then it’s ‘written off’ as survival of fitness / natural selection or whatever. Yuck.
To put stereotypes in perspective; these are generalizations that do not apply to everybody and the variation in individuals is often greater than societal averages. “It was found that the happiest group of husbands had wives twelve or more years younger, but that the happiest wives were from four to ten years older than their husbands. Yet the happiest couples were those in which the husband was from three to five years older..the most important consideration is not age, but maturity.” http://ezinearticles.com/?Understanding-Age-Gap-Relationships&id=94787 The average age of first marriage in the United States in 1956 was 22.5 for men and 20.1… Read more »
I just figured some people didnt want to work for aliving and so they married someone who already had money. Why should that quest for stability be gender specific?
What a lazy article. Did either of you bother conversing with any age gap couples at all, or have you simply relegated this nice bit of ageism to your own Richard Attenborough-like observations? 50 years ago, this article would be about interracial relationships.
I’m not sure who “Same” is but, dear Same,
This is not an “article,” so it was not about research. It was about answering questions from our gut and being willing to be vulnerable and honest and responsible for our musings. I’m sort of sorry I shared about my deceased father after reading your very careless response. yrs. Laura
I am 67 with a wife 25 years younger. our sons are 3 and 5. We have been married 14 years. Damned if I understand what all the backchat is about. Joe and Rumspringa, hey guys, stop and smell the flowers. If you are on your deathbed ie when, I sincerely hope there is someone who cares for you and who forgives your foibles. If you are the men you pretend to be …be polite.
My take on “get along so well” is that the older guys haven’t got so much to prove about themselves. They’ve made their money, if they’re going to, and if they haven’t, at least they’ve demonstrated that they can survive in the world. They’re ready to settle down and be comfortable. Are younger men really easy in their lives? The ones with energy are up and doing, and the ones without, are too often blatantly being lazy–with drink and sports (as spectators!) and videos. Women may not have the ambition, and some might say, in our society not the opportunities,… Read more »
Having been the older guy in the older guy/younger woman scenario I appreciate this discussion and the insight it brings to me in rationalizing and dissecting the relationship. A trade-off of youth for power – yes, there was definitely that. But the younger partner also is able to exercise the power of being the supremely desirable component in the relationship – not financial power, a different yet very strong power. Their confidence in their physical attraction and the power gained by bestowing their grace, youth and beauty upon the willing and receptive older recipient may be construed as a financial… Read more »
Marriage is not a bloodsport.
Ron – you must be single…
Ron – I realize I’m replying nearly 4 years after the post, but I think you may have missed the artistic liberty that the author took to describe the trials and tribulations of marriage that lead to what I call “life equity.” In addition, the contrast he makes is that older man/younger woman may be a concession: it’s the couple perhaps not wanting to try all that hard to grow deeply that “life equity” and are comfortable on the surface. (As I have seen over and over, the young female tires of this when she grows up (when her emotional… Read more »
Ron I did say “sometimes”…
Given rates of domestic violence (http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/statistics.shtml), comparing marriage to boxing, especially with the whole idea that the blood on the mat is beautiful, at the very least distracts from your central points.
I don’t think that Tom meant that literally. I get from his post that a good marriage is raw, no-one goes in wearing their kevlar and you morph with the other person, hopefully for the better and i think a good marriage brings that growth the peeling back of the onion so to speak-revealing the authentic and the sacred in both and sometimes , just sometimes it is not easy. I am so happy to see this webpage. I love a good man and have been wondering in context, just what that means these days. I have heard that younger… Read more »
As someone who was once married to someone who turned out to be less than capable i get the allusion to sparring. i think it was a metaphor for someone who can be authentic with their heart and life and that my dear, is no easy task. What i am curious about is men whose self-esteem is caught up in what they bring to the table in terms of economics. How does one feel about themselves if a younger woman only values that? Please, it took me until i was 40 to understand the subtle dynamics in life and my… Read more »
The cougar phenomenon shows the sexual dynamics in society has changed, More and more younger guys are dating and marrying older women. I think as women gain economic and political power, these May/December relationships will become more common. I’m 50 and I find myself almost equally attracted to women my age and younger. If no one has noticed, there are a lot of “mature” websites highlighting the beauty of older gals. After my breakup, my ex was approached by young men and she’s been with a guy 13 years her junior for 7 years. The stereotype of the old dude… Read more »
I would like to believe you David, but the reality is that a guy dating a girl 13 years is not considered to be robbing the cradle while generally speaking a woman doing the same is. In fact, it’s almost expected (at least there’s nothing unusual) that a guy would be dating someone at least 10 years younger sometimes. I think your ex is an exception, but good for her nonetheless.
I think that age difference is like putting a 6 and a 9 together!?..the other way round looks so much older 9 and 6!,..lol..if you could ask me,everyone starts life sexless to end it the same way,but in between we become a little senseless.,kind of like getting drunk or stoned,.nothing last forever,might as well enjoy it while it last,cause it dosent!?…