Jamie Reidy reacts to surprising news regarding what women want.
Nancy Shute’s article on npr.org regarding a recent study in the “Journal of Family Psychology” really confused me. I mean, based on this data, a ton of my friends should have perfect relationships.
“The women tend to want to engage around conflict,” she told Shots. “They’re deriving more satisfaction when they see that their partner is upset.” Evidently we women see a man’s willingness to share negative feelings as a sign that he’s invested in the relationship. Cohen says: “That’s telling her something about his availability to engage in the conflict.”
So, rather than just file this in the “If-I-had-only-known-that-years-ago-I-might-be-married-with-three-kids-right-now” folder, I’ll express some pent up feelings.
I feel bad when you make me watch “The Real Housewives of Whogivesafuck.”
I feel frustrated when you insist on changing the sheets, like, every week.
I feel angry when you accurately count how many drinks I had.
I feel bad when you aren’t ready on time because you decided that ten minutes before the taxi was coming to take us to the airport was the right moment to start reorganizing your black pants.
I feel frustrated when I think of the thousands of dollars you’ve spent on black pants that all look identical, anyway.
I feel angry when you forget the name of my fantasy football team.
I feel bad when you don’t want to do it at your cousin’s wedding reception.
I feel frustrated when I ask what you want for dinner and you shrug and say “Whatever you want” and then I suggest sushi and you say, “Nah, I had sushi on Tuesday,” and then I offer barbecue and you say, “No, I had that two months ago” and then…
I feel angry when you say, “Jamie, you should totally blog about _____” and I reply, “I did last week.”
Photo: Corey Leopold
Lindsay now has a great web site that is about her relationship to a porn addict and she also has a new book out call ”You Want Me To Do WHAT With That?! The life expectancy of a relationship with a porn addict.All written in a british humourous style…check out the site an her blog….very entertaining.
Hmmm, nah, don’t get off on bad tempered guys – much prefer the quiet life thank you. I also find people (men and women) who lose their temper quickly and in a big way, do so to manipulate the other person into doing what they want, because it’s easier to go along with that than put up with the hystrionics that may be displayed in you don’t. All guys seem to turn into Victor Meldrew as they age, we don’t want to encourage them to get to that stage any earlier! (check out One Foot In The Grave if you… Read more »
“Evidently we women see a man’s willingness to share negative feelings as a sign that he’s invested in the relationship.” Pretty much everyone here has expressed what I would have said. (Though I’d also like to add that I would lodge the same complaints you do Jamie if my girlfriend did any of those things. lol). I really want to focus on that quote, though, because I think this is sort of a symptom of a larger problem with the way we expect men to behave. Our society tells men to repress their emotions…all of them from what I can… Read more »
Good points here.
Sometimes value comes from perceived rarity. Perhaps men who express their feelings are slightly more attractive than average because many women think this is rare, so they think that “he must really love me if he’s being so vulnerable.” Perhaps if men expressed their feelings more often it wouldn’t be considered so attractive.
“Perhaps if men expressed their feelings more often it wouldn’t be considered so attractive.”
Yeah pretty much that’s what I’m thinking. Someone else can feel free to contradict me if their experiences are different – but I haven’t found that lesbians are concerned with whether their partner is able to express emotion. Which, yeah, suggests to me it’s more about expectations about men, rather than some inherent trait of women.
It’s a generalization, yes…but then so is the statement that straight women like men who are wiling to share negative emotions.
This research, if at all true, may be more of the “some women can’t resist an asshole” phenomenon. Men should have a bit of asshole in them, granted, but I don’t want a woman who really digs them.
I suppose it’s true that women who are going on about something difficult only want to be heard out.
Right.
But woe be to the guy who doesn’t fix it after he’s listened.
And… I don’t have anything to complain about with this one.
Carry on.
One of the best things I learned in “Mars and Venus for The Workplace” – forced on me by a sales managers whose wife got tired of listening to him complain about his coed sales teams’ complaints along gender lines – was this tidbit: (paraphrasing) Sometimes women don’t know where they are going with a conversation when they start talking. Sometimes, they just need to talk, and through the conversation they will figure out why. So, men, just let the women talk without interrupting or offering to fix it.” I can’t always follow that advice – due to control issues,… Read more »
That’s why you’re so quiet when I talk? 🙂
What’s the male equivalent of that, then?
But honestly, that is really true for me (as you know), though I hate to admit it. I often need to vent some feelings and different theories, then do some problem solving, then resolve.
I think that sounds healthy of me, though!
I’m also curious what the male equivalent to that is? I actually just assumed that some people need to talk to figure out what their point is, and some people don’t. I didn’t realize it fit along gender lines.
The corollary/counter balance to that is the person who when they have a problem or are experiencing intense emotion they withdraw/shut down. This is done in order to get their thoughts/feelings together and work things out so they can be expressed. Often a person is quiet and seemingly withdrawn and appear to be repressing emotion – but the fact is they are in fact processing them internally and sorting them out until they are ready//able to articulate and or express them. Often people who attempt to probe and prod others into ‘talking’ are rather than being unselfish and caring are… Read more »
I shut down. I take everything inside and try to figure it out before I go and talk about it. When people try to get me to talk about my issues before I’m ready I generally just get annoyed with them. I’m trying to gather my thoughts first so I don’t say stupid things when I do choose to vent. When I vent before I’ve figured it out, I feel like the emotion is gone but I’m not any closer to figuring out why I felt those emotions than before.
Hmm while reading this I’ve been thinking about how I react when I’m feeling different emotions, and I guess I kind of do both. When I’m angry/frustrated/etc I’ll talk about it as a way to work through it. When I’m sad/hurt/etc I tend to totally bottle it up and usually I won’t express it unless I’m around someone I can really trust.
This is what I think is a constructive point from the article. When a person NEVER complains or expresses any feeling, negative or otherwise, it’s often hard for the other person to feel an emotional connection. There’s a difference between complaining once in a while and complaining all the time. It’s not that more anger is always better. It’s that if you never ever express any anger or disappointment or annoyance, you give the impression of being closed off. That’s not always a fair interpretation, but that’s the way that it feels to the other person. Trying to avoid all… Read more »
My ‘Male Equivalent 2.0’ is to retreat to the man-cave and chew on the issue until I have a handle of what the problem is and possible solutions for the problem. Then, I talk to the friend/relative in my life that is the best suited to discuss the problem with.
This is the improved new version. Version 1.0 was
1. See problem
2. Internalize it
3. Stress over it
4. Make burden of it and carry forever
5. Have stroke.
I also follow Male Version 2.0 after realizing that Version 1.0 was in fact horrible for me and my self esteem.
Oh god, I must really be a man or something because I don’t follow the “feminine” way of doing things at all! But I certainly don’t look or feel like a man, I feel like a woman…. I AM SO CONFUSED.
Hold on, that last one was for me, wasn’t it!?!?
Nothing gets by me!
Definitely in my top 5 Jamie posts of all time. So funny.
A few years ago, my husband lost his wallet in a shopping mall out of town…he was able to cancel his credit cards, but he freaked out about losing his SS card (he was afraid of identity theft)….he went on and on (imagining all kinds of financial ruin and how his whole family’s future is jeopardized by a careless act)….I tried to listen to him go on and on…he was even getting teary eyed about all the disastrous scenarios that could happen (which didn’t, I must say)…. That same weekend, I was stalked outside my workplace by an ex-lover (whom… Read more »
Heh. This reminds me of my relationship with my friend. I tend to take the things she says personally, then when I say she hurts my feelings, she complains I’m too emotional and I make everything about me. Meanwhile, she’s so stoic – she either never shows her feelings or just isn’t as sensitive as I am… so I have trouble believing she actually cares about me at all. Is this ‘Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus?’ No… it’s two grown women. >_> Life is strange.
I heard an article on NPR a couple of years back about why men and women “complain”, and it was verified to me by a therapist I was going to after the breakup of my last relationship (commence the poor-memory paraphrasing): Men complain to each other as a means of brainstorming solutions. Women complain to each other as a means of establishing and maintaining emotional connections. I didn’t realize men and women communicated that differently, and my error was a big contributor to the break-up; I assumed my ex-girlfriend wanted me to give her advice when she’d come home and… Read more »
*Women complain to each other as a means of establishing and maintaining emotional connections.*
Absolutely.
Not this woman or her female friends. We’re all fixers. We complain to brainstorm solutions and want people (female AND male) who just like to complain to shut up and/or go away.
There is a difference between brainstorming and whining. I hate whining!
YES I realized this in middle school when I tried to be friends with the popular girls. All they would ever do is complain about how tired they were (which, what, they’re in middle school, how busy are they?). And I realized that this complaining and mutual, “I know, me too, it sucks.” was like a form of greeting. Totally bizarre. I don’t know how true it is all the time. I don’t think I really complain as much for “social bonding” now. Gossip though, is a great means for social bonding (which everyone does, but people always think of… Read more »
A lot of the times, that’s all anybody wants, is just someone to listen and be like “man, you had a shit day.” I can be a “fixer” sometimes, and I tend to give unwarranted advice, as Collin is probably aware (sorry Collin).
Seems like the study is only saying that women want to be needed. He’s open and trusting to her if he can share those feelings. If he’s a stoic, he’s inaccessible.
Am I missing something, or is this study actually not surprising if looked at in that light?
J Ron – I think that’s partially it. But the big disparity I see is that men prefer their women HAPPY, whereas women want their men to express their unhappiness.
The latter, to me, is specific; they don’t want only good news/updates.
This is so confusing to me. Who would want to be around someone angry and complaining all the time. I can see that women might want to see their spouse is invested enough to…complain? But if we as women are modeling that by complaining no wonder mates are irritated with us.
I love happy men, laughing men, silly men, charming men. Why would I want to be around someone angry all the time?
Indeed.
I second Collin. I was with an angry man. I do not want to do that again. It was scary and uncomfortable. But I realize that I shouldn’t be angry or complain all the time either. So instead I do silly things and stay positive with my boyfriend. I think people tend to misunderstand the difference between nagging and complaining and voicing concerns or problems because everyone gets too involved in their own feelings, and they don’t just directly say “hey, I’m having an issue with abc and I feel efg. I think a way we can solve this is… Read more »
Steph, is there a drug for “efg”? There oughta be.
Probably. I should probably see my doctor about that.
“Who would want to be around someone angry and complaining all the time. I can see that women might want to see their spouse is invested enough to…complain?” I don’t know if it’s so much that they are angry and complaining all the time, but just that they are comfortable enough with their emotions (and their partner) to be able to express those emotions when necessary. I was terrified of dating someone who could never express themselves and were just repressed emotionally after growing up with my brother who I am pretty sure is a robot. I have never seen… Read more »
Plus, I would also wonder about their ability to empathize. I saw my brother’s girlfriend break down in tears in front of him, and he just did not understand why she was upset and he was unable to talk to her like she was anything besides a child with irrational emotion. I knew exactly why she was upset, it was totally clear to me. So maybe I was traumatized by being around my brother, or something, but I see the expression of anger, frustration, sadness, whatever, as signs that a person is in touch with their emotions and not repressing… Read more »
…I must be some freak of nature or something. Maybe I should get tested, see how much testosterone I have in my system or something. Because I don’t like conflict, I don’t do well with conflict, and for god’s sake I wouldn’t watch Real Housewives of Whogivesafuck let alone make my boyfriend watch it.
Steph – Let’s bottle you, sell it and make gazillions!
New essence of Steph – one spritz and you will instantly hate horrible reality tv. Side effects may include sudden interest in video games and better conflict resolution.
In the next life we should seek out each other, because I think conflict is for damaged people. If you want to talk, great. If you want to parse everything I freakin say, there’s the door. And I’m changing the locks after you close it.
Well respectful discussion solves problems. Intentionally making an anthill into a mountain is just plain stupid. Those who thrive in conflict are dysfunctional. There’s a huge difference between “I feel abc because of efg and I think a way we can solve it is by doing xyz” and “you’re an asshole because you can’t read my mind and I’m going to take that personally” The latter, needless to say, is petty and is no way to solve a problem. You have to be direct and own up to your feelings, but not in an accusatory tone. There’s no “winning” in… Read more »
Oy! We can get tested together 🙂 “engage around conflict,” she told Shots. “They’re deriving more satisfaction when they see that their partner is upset.” Evidently we women see a man’s willingness to share negative feelings as a sign that he’s invested in the relationship. Cohen says: “That’s telling her something about his availability to engage in the conflict.” No it should be telling her that she needs to work with him to create a safe space should he choose to express his emotions in his own way and respect him enough to give him a choice. Utter nonsense….more satisfaction… Read more »