Tom Matlack interviews a former manager of an L.A. gentlemen’s club for a glimpse of what it’s like to work among strippers—and the guys who shower them with cash.
A couple months ago I had dinner with friends in Los Angeles. At the table was a guy I hadn’t seen in 20 years: Brad, the younger brother of two of my buddies. Brad had an attractive young woman on his arm. We all enjoyed a drink together.
After the young woman left, the conversation quickly turned to the nature of her relationship with Brad. His brothers chuckled knowingly. Brad once managed a strip club, and the fresh-faced young woman had been a stripper there. He had since moved on to the gourmet-food business and hired her to conduct, and then manage, demonstrations in high-end grocery stores. Brad proceeded to tell stories I found funny, sad, and surprising about what it’s like to work at a strip club.
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That conversation came rushing back to me when the Good Men Project Magazine ran “The Professional.” In that article, sex worker Charlotte Shane explains that she doesn’t think of herself as exploited. She claims that many of her clients were good men. Of all the stories we’ve published, “The Profesional” was perhaps the most challenging to wrap my head around.
The editorial team at the magazine operates with complete autonomy; the first time I was aware of the piece was when I got an 
email from a source on one of the stories I’d written about teenage girls being forced into prostitution. She was emphatic that publishing “The Professional” had done irreparable harm, by endorsing prostitution and minimizing the violence done to women in the sex industry.
At first, I instinctively agreed with my source. I have sat with child prostitutes and the people who try to help them. I learned firsthand how their young lives were devastated at the hands of pimps and johns who exploited them emotionally and physically.
But two things changed my mind. I posted the piece on Facebook and asked my friends if they found it offensive. A dozen respondents all said it was a revealing glimpse into male sexuality and how the sex trade works for some women. They didn’t interpret it as an endorsement of prostitution. Shane, a well-educated woman who chose sex work, was careful to point out that she was writing about her experience, not the experience of all sex workers.
The second thing that turned me around was recalling my conversation with Brad. While I didn’t completely agree with his perspective on stripping as a vocation, I realized that it’s important to distinguish fact from fiction when it comes to the sex industry. Where I had previously seen it as a black-and-white issue, I began to see shades of gray: all sex work is not the same.
After the publication of “The Professional,” I called Brad to ask him a few questions.
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TOM: What kind of club were you working in?
BRAD: They were owned by a larger chain, Scores, from New York.
How did you get involved in it?
I have a good buddy I ran nightclubs with back in Chicago. He called me, and he said, “Buddy, come on up to the club; you can work for a few nights. You’ll be around a ton of girls, we get to hang out all the time, you don’t really do anything. Let’s have some fun.” And I was like, “Well, I don’t know.” But I went, and it was easy. For the most part, I got a ton of cash for really doing nothing.
How did you get paid?
Tips. We made minimum wage, and every time a guy would walk in, I would start talking to him, sit him down, try to get him a drink or something, see how much money he had, and then I’d introduce him to a lady. At the end of the night, girls tip you out for helping them. I would say those girls would probably be tipping out anywhere from 30–40 percent of what they made.
Wow. So how much did the average girl make a night in that club?
Well, that club kind of sucked. I would say the average girl there would make anywhere from $300 to $700 a night. An amazing girl could come in there on the weekends and make anywhere from $1,000 to $7,000. They all had regulars who just sat there, and these girls would just talk to them all night, and by the end of the night the guy basically threw down, like, three, five grand.
Did the guys want dances, or was it that they wanted someone to talk to?
A little bit of both. Some guys just came in to hang out with these girls, and some guys came in because they wanted the dancing and to get as close as they could to sex—but nothing really ever happened like that.
Who was the typical customer?
Your regular blue-collar guy who was probably married or in a relationship, and would come in and just want to be next to a girl who excited him. Just your average guy. I didn’t see too many white-collar dudes come in. The ones who did were regulars.
Sex was not allowed?
Not at all. I’ve been going to strip clubs since I was young, and any time you start getting into the nicer establishments, these places are watched over by the city and the police like hawks. We had cameras everywhere and security guys to make sure everybody kept his pecker in his pants.
Where do the girls come from and how do they get into this?
You just had all walks. They were college students who could make a ton of money doing this one or two days a week to pay their student loan, their car, their rent, and go shopping. Or you would have your seasoned veteran chick who’d just been doing it forever and kind of got addicted to the cash and couldn’t figure out anything else to do, or you’d get your ghetto rats, and the kind of chicks who aren’t well educated. You can tell the prostitutes when you see them; they go from club to club because they usually get caught doing something they’re not supposed to be doing.
What was the mindset of the dancers? How do they deal with what they were doing?
Some of them were really secretive. Everybody has a stage name, but the funny thing was, they would keep their personas outside of work and continuously call each other by their stage names. A lot of those girls really protected their real identity, and the girls would only tell you their real names if they really thought of you as a friend.
What was the nature of those friendships?
At first, I would probably have loved to date any of these girls, but a lot of them do have some social problems or things like that. I’m still kind of like the lonely dude here in L.A., so if I ever want to go out and have a great dinner these gals will always oblige. Two of the girls still work for me.
They work for you in your food business, not stripping.
Yeah.
Does she strip still?
No. A lot of the normal ones, the minute they don’t have to, they won’t. You always hear they’re just putting themselves through college, but the minute they can get a real job, they’ll do it. The problem is, sometimes they find themselves a little bit too lazy to get up and do that. You can tell which ones are motivated and which ones are just kind of like,”Well, fuck it.” The normal ones, I don’t think it’s ever their lifelong passion to stay in the business; they’re always looking for something better.
So what are some of the crazy things that would happen in the club?
The VIP rooms are infamous for guys pulling their cocks out and not thinking it’s a big deal. And then security comes in and they’ll say, “Buddy, what are you doing?” And the guy will say, “What, what’s wrong?” Well, that’s illegal.
Retell me the story about what it means to “make it rain.”
That was probably one of my first nights there. One guy sits down nonchalantly and says, “Well, could you do me a favor?” And I said sure. He’s like, “I need to change out $9,000 in ones.” And I go, “Say that one more time?” “Yeah, I need $9,000 in one-dollar bills.”
I go over to talk to my buddy, and my buddy immediately says, “Oh yeah, it’s going to storm.” And he says, “Let me go check out in the safe.” He comes back and says, “I can do this.” We grab the gentleman’s money, we change it into singles. His gal, the girl that he was looking for, goes up onstage. All of a sudden, he just starts throwing the money straight up into the air, and it’s raining $1 bills, and it lasts for the entire song. Money’s everywhere. I have to get up onstage with a big broom and sweep it up into big garbage bags. It takes me an hour and a half to recount it, and she pays me $150.
What made for the most successful stripper?
The most successful strippers were usually the girls who were intelligent and could talk to anybody. She could talk to a thug, and make him feel all warm and happy, but could also go up to the Mexican cowboy dude who doesn’t speak much English, or the white college kids who would come in with the credit card. If you had a girl who could really only deal with one type of person, that’s all you could use her for.
So it was personality, not necessarily how beautiful they were?
It was all personality. You’d be surprised at how different the girls would look outside of the club, in normal attire. Walking around in a bikini—these girls could make themselves look gorgeous, but you’d see them walking in or you’d see them leave, and it was like nothing special at all.
You’re no longer involved with the club, right?
Correct. My friend still is.
In hindsight, do you have any moral pangs at all in terms of what was going on there?
No, no. I think it’s an amazing business. One, it’s just an incredible cash business. The tough thing is, my buddy, because he’s been doing this business for the past six, seven years, he really can’t do anything else. He puts that on his resume to go for a job outside of the industry and it’s a huge hindrance.
So you don’t feel bad in terms of how the girls were treated in any way.
No. They’re there because they want to be there. It’s not prostitution. The ones who aren’t good at it or the ones who have a problem, you don’t hire them back, or you don’t schedule them.
What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about strip clubs?
Well, I think the majority of guys think that they could offer these gals money and take them home, that they’re all prostitutes, and that’s not true at all. I would say a good 40 percent of them are no different from any of the other women walking around, except they just don’t have a problem taking off their clothes. They are comfortable with themselves, and they look at men as complete idiots. I can take that guy’s money, why not? Why not. And I love that.
The other misconception is that everybody there is on drugs and whatever. You couldn’t be. If these girls were drunk or on drugs, they couldn’t talk to the customers, and we would ask them to leave. Everybody’s there to make money, pure and simple.
What does it say about male sexuality that men, especially the big spenders, would go into the club and sit there for hours talking with some girl and spending thousands of dollars?
That we’re complete suckers.
Suckers, or you think it says something about how we deal with our sexuality?
We have no control over our sexuality or over our hormones. That’s pure and simple. The only time we have control is after we’ve busted a nut—that’s the only time in our lives when things are crystal clear.
So your view is that, especially the 40 percent of girls who are smart and doing it for a period of time, they were just taking advantage of men, and “good for them”?
Totally. Good for them. Why not?
♦ ♦ ♦
Tom Matlack, together with James Houghton and Larry Bean, published an anthology of stories about defining moments in men’s lives — The Good Men Project: Real Stories from the Front Lines of Modern Manhood. It was how the The Good Men Project first began. Want to buy the book? Click here. Want to learn more? Here you go.
About Tom Matlack
Could we stop calling them “gentlemen’s clubs.”
“They’re there because they want to be there. It’s not prostitution.”
Hm. I don’t really see any reason why a strip club is different from a brothel with regard to the girls’ motivation.
The US made prostitution illegal, so obviously those girls have to settle for more shady places.
But if strip clubs and brothels were treated the same, I don’t see why there would be a big difference.
In any country where both is legal you always have both:
shady strip clubs, clean strip clubs. shady brothels, clean brothels.
i like the e mails of the good mens project, thank you albert temus
A great blog is Maggie McNeill, the Honest Courtesan.
She is an ex escort and madam. Absolutely fascinating.
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as a child prostitute. Girls who are underage and who are having sex, regardless of whether and how much money is exchanging hands, are victims of childhood sexual abuse. Victims. Not prostitutes.
I’ve only been to one strip club, and it was in LA. It’s where Courtney Love met Kurt Cobain. I am not sure if I should mention the name of it in this post, but you can look it up if you’d like.
Anyhow, the apparent personal situations of the entertainers did not match with the college girl type. For the six or eight women I saw dancing on stage, and the three or four women walking around talking to men, I saw not one who didn’t have a faraway look in her eye. They were physically present but not mentally, and it was eerie. I’m not questioning the validity of the interview at all, I think it is possibly limited to a certain higher class club.
That was a really interesting interview and I appreciate the perspective.
Why does this particular article pop up every month or so?
We’ve seen it like 10 times already.
Got anything else that you can put into syndication? This one is getting old. Real old. At least post something new about the ‘rippers, rather than rehashing this. Sheesh! It’s like a slow news day but worse.
Hey there,
I’ve never heard of the Good Men Project (and shame on me for being culturally ignorant to such an appalling extent) but it’s always encouraging to see men who aren’t willing to simply accept the gender roles our society likes to hand out. So, kudos to you for that. And as a woman, and a stripper, it’s great to read articles that aren’t out to demonize the sex industry and its employees.
However, while I’m sure he was simply speaking from his experience, Brad makes a couple of comments that aren’t quite true. Now, since he was speaking from experience, perhaps the club he worked at was simply different than the ones I’ve worked in. But I do want to take the time to point out a few facets of the industry he may not be aware of. I’ve been stripping for 7 years now (I guess that means I’m not “normal” by Brad’s standards. Whoops.) and have worked in over 20 clubs across the U.S. so I like to think I have a pretty good grasp of the industry. That being said, like Brad, I can, of course, only speak from my experience—so with that in mind I’m going to take this opportunity to nit-pick some statements he made. I hope you’ll excuse the novel length comment.
>>Did the guys want dances, or was it that they wanted someone to talk to?
A little bit of both
Narrowing down the reasons someone might come to a strip club into 2 categories is really, really, limiting. Customers come in for a vast variety of reasons that simply can’t be summed up by “conversation” or “sex/dances”.
Yes, you do get the guys who come in because they want someone to talk to. Maybe he had a shitty day at work and just needs to vent. Maybe his marriage isn’t going so well and he can’t talk to his wife any more. Maybe he works nights and none of his friends are on the same schedule, etc. In those cases being a stripper is a lot like being a therapist. A naked therapist, but still. For many people it’s a lot easier to talk to a stranger than a friend (why do you think so many people tell their troubles to bartenders?). But you also get the guys who come in for the experience of having an intelligent, attractive, woman make them feel wanted and/or needed. They don’t want dances, and they don’t want to take me home; they just like to feel that someone enjoys their company. Essentially the last thing they want is sex. They specifically come in looking for “flattery” of the strictly mental/emotional kind.
And of course, yes, you do get the customers who are there for the sexual aspect (the ones who shout obscenities at the stage or try to grope me beneath the bar). Generally speaking they’re a minority. And often these customers have a deeper, ulterior motive they may not even be aware of—the guy trying to grope me probably isn’t doing it solely because he finds me attractive, but because he feels a need to exert control and feel powerful in a “manly” way. Thanks again, gender stereotypes. In any case my point is that customers do not fall into 2 neat categories, talk, or dance. There are tons of reasons guys come in—and it’s important to be aware of them.
>>What was the mindset of the dancers? How do they deal with what they were doing?
Some of them were really secretive. Everybody has a stage name, but the funny thing was, they would keep their personas outside of work and continuously call each other by their stage names.
Sorry Brad, not everyone has a stage name. My name is Lilah. Guess what my stage name is. That’s right, Lilah. *shrug* I just don’t have a great need for secrecy in my life, and certainly not in my work. Some girls feel differently, but I don’t hide what I do because there is nothing shameful about what I do. My friends all know I strip. My landlord knows. Hell, even my parents know. My mom’s come down to the club and watched my sets in the past. Some people say I should use a fake name to protect myself from potential stalkers. To that I say: I’ve been stalked. In my experience if someone is really determined to stalk you it will take more than a fake name to deter them.
As to the idea that strippers are so secretive they call each other by their stage names even outside of work, let me say this: calling each other by our stage names arises out of a need for convenience, not secrecy. Why take the chance that you’ll accidentally call another girl by the wrong name at work, thereby blowing up her proverbial spot in front of customers? It’s just more to remember, and we already meet a lot of new people every night. Remembering the names of customers is hard enough.
>>Does she strip still?
No. A lot of the normal ones, the minute they don’t have to, they won’t. You always hear they’re just putting themselves through college, but the minute they can get a real job, they’ll do it. The problem is, sometimes they find themselves a little bit too lazy to get up and do that. You can tell which ones are motivated and which ones are just kind of like,”Well, fuck it.” The normal ones, I don’t think it’s ever their lifelong passion to stay in the business; they’re always looking for something better.
Ok Brad, now we have to have words. A lot of what he says here is problematic—not only does he imply that stripping isn’t a “real” job, but he also intimates that stripping is easy (I’m also not convinced that his use of the word “normal” is…). Unfortunately, I hear similar sentiments from clients all the time. When sitting with someone I often get the question “So, what else do you do?” and they’re never referring to my hobbies. The assumption is that stripping can’t be my only source of income, and I must have a “real” job as well. First, let’s just clear this up: stripping IS a real job. It is hard, tiring, draining work. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Clearly not even the high monetary incentive is enough to convince more women to try it. Why? It’s ridiculously difficult.
It requires a level of confidence most people don’t have, strength, determination, intelligence and determination. I work 8 hour shifts just like most 9-5 jobs—only I don’t get breaks. And I don’t have benefits. No sick time. No 401k. No vacation time. Even though there is a high risk of injury in pole dancing, I am not eligible for workers comp. It’s a bit like hosting a party; you have to make sure everyone is happy and enjoying themselves regardless of how you feel. If you’re tired, you can’t show it. Angry? Better bottle it up. Sick? Take an aspirin. Your job is to entertain. Keep everyone happy, interested and invested. Even if someone isn’t your favorite person, you make sure they have a good time. Just like hosting a party, it’s fun, but it’s exhausting. Stripping is like that—only you do it for 8 hours straight, 5 days a week, in heels, for people you don’t even know. And so I’m still a bit confused as to why it doesn’t qualify as “real” work.
Next problem: “sometimes they find themselves a bit too lazy to get up and do that” Again, lazy? Brad implies that it’s easier to continue to strip than to go work in an office or what-have-you. Well, I’m pretty sure we just covered how stripping is anything but easy. If a woman continues to strip as opposed to going out and getting a different, more socially accepted, job, you can be pretty sure it isn’t because she’s lazy.
And finally, he says “The normal ones, I don’t think it’s ever their lifelong passion to stay in the business”. This implies that if a woman does make the conscious choice to remain a stripper as long as she can, she is somehow abnormal for making that choice, or that the choice itself is wrong. Sorry, but I take personal offense to that. I love my job. With all it’s ups and downs, I love my job. I’ll have to be dragged kicking and screaming away from the club before I quit. I refuse to believe that choosing this profession is an inherently poor choice. I’m an educated woman (graduated magna-cum-laude from Hofstra University in NY) and I know exactly who I am and what I want. I enjoy stripping. I want to continue to strip. If that makes me “abnormal” whoops—guess I’m a freak.
>>What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about strip clubs?
They are comfortable with themselves, and they look at men as complete idiots.
Uhm, please don’t put words in our mouths. I do not look at men as complete idiots. Why would I? Because they’re willing to pay for my time? That just means they find my company valuable. Guess what—I have enough self-respect to agree with them. My company & time are valuable. The only men I see as idiots are the ones who don’t respect me as a person. But I don’t need to go to a strip club to find those.
>>What does it say about male sexuality that men, especially the big spenders, would go into the club and sit there for hours talking with some girl and spending thousands of dollars?
That we’re complete suckers.
You do yourself, and every man on earth, a disservice by saying this. Calling men “suckers” when they make the conscious choice to enter a strip club invalidates the thought they put into that choice. It’s not as if they walk in unaware of the dynamic that exists. They know how a strip club works. They know they’re going to have to pay us if they want our company. And they choose to do so. That doesn’t make them suckers—it makes them self-aware. Calling them suckers is basically saying they didn’t know what they were getting into, and that’s just patently untrue.
All right, I apologize for absconding with your article/comment thread. I do hope that what I’ve said highlights some of the facets of stripping folks may not have considered before. If anyone is interested in learning more, please feel free to visit my website, Body of Indulgence. Drop by to discuss the finer points of stripping, ask questions, or even just say hi at any time—I’m happy to speak with you.
Best,
Lilah Quinn
Bodyofindulgence.com
I concur with much of what you say. I have dated two women who were dancers (when I was in the military) and so I have a male perspective on this that a male employer might not. First of all, both women would and their fellow strippers would prefer to do something else but were compelled by circumstances to do this. Second, they were creeped out by many of the men who came to the clubs. Once they learned how to work different situations, they settled down a bit, but it took a while.
What makes me sad is that there are all these women asking “where are all the good men” and there are all these men out there paying strippers thousands of dollars just to talk.
Am I the only one thinking there is a massive disconnect here?
Men have a lot to work on. Women can help but I will refrain from sharing my thoughts here as this is not a safe forum for such candor. Suffice it to say that women have more power than they are either willing to admit or recognize.
Check out my stripper documentary LICENSE TO PIMP. It’s about the choices that 3 San Francisco strippers make when their workplaces engage in illegal labor practices that effectively turn them into brothels. And let’s get real. Prostitution does happen in strip clubs.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/himab/license-to-pimp-documentary
27136 135599The subsequent time I read a weblog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as a whole lot as this 1. I mean, I know it was my option to read, but I truly thought youd have something attention-grabbing to say. All I hear can be a bunch of whining about something which you possibly can repair need to you werent too busy on the lookout for attention. 891661
Check this one out!! Talk about southern hospitality.. Service is GREAT!!
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