Can Young Girls Really Seduce Older Men?

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About Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo Schwyzer has taught history and gender studies at Pasadena City College since 1993, where he developed the college's first courses on Men and Masculinity and Beauty and Body Image. He serves as co-director of the Perfectly Unperfected Project, a campaign to transform young people's attitudes around body image and fashion. Hugo lives with his wife, daughter, and six chinchillas in Los Angeles. Hugo blogs at his website

Comments

  1. Girls become “sexualized” at a much earlier age than they did two generations ago. I have heard girls as young as 8 say that they like “wieners”–possibly because they have been interacting with some boy in their age range in an inappropiate manner. Add to that the fact that the media bombards tweens with images of intense sexual content. Katy Perry’s song “Peacock” ain’t about birds, and ten year old girls know it. Bratz dollas, which were popular a few years back, aren’t the “sexless” Barbie dolls that girls played with years ago, but dolls that present a teeneage girl’s image of being a slut. I’ve seen girls engage in relationships with older boys when they were as young as 10. Once a girl has learned about the birds and the bees and seems to like it, age is just a number to them. We need to educate kids better and establish taboos that are lines not be crossed.

  2. I’ve always considered myself as a Lolita. Since I was young I’ve always been fascinated with the seduction of older men, especially teachers. I’ve always wanted older men’s attention and not even the attention of boys my age. I could honestly care less about what they think of me. I’m 16 now and have a sexual relationship with a 32 year old, who in my eyes is still a bit young for my taste. I don’t have “daddy issues” and I honesty don’t consider myself a slut. It’s what I like. So, from what I’ve seen, men become powerless when a young, new body wants them. It makes them feel young again, and who doesn’t want their youth revitalised?

    • People who don’t attach their self worth to their age? No matter what their age is? What happens as you age yourself Naomi?

      Youth is fleeting, you can’t hold onto it. Men that date you to feel young again are still the same age they were before. And for the short term, you might make them feel good. But the don’t feel good because they value you. They feel good because they buy into the lie that your age, your young age, says something about their worth. Do you think that as you get older, you will make them feel the same way? What will you do when you are 32 yourself? Do you really want a man to want you because it’s your youth that makes him feel good? Your youth says nothing about who you are as a person. It says nothing about what you really offer. And one day, you won’t be so young anymore. And I know you won’t like this but 32 year old men that date 16 year old girls are really not the kind of men you should really want to be. They are not healthy men. You shouldn’t want to be used for your age. But your 16. And the reality is that despite how mature you think you are or how much you think you know, you don’t know nearly as much as you believe.

      Do the people who care about you know of this relatoinship you are having with this 32 year old man?

      I don’t think you are a “slut” either. Actually, no woman is a “slut”. Women have a sexuality just like men do and there is nothing to be ashamed with in that. But there is something not quiet right with your desire to seduce older men. And while you may or may not have “daddy issues”, there is certainly something going on that you are more interested in men much older then you then boys your own age. It’s not healthy.

      • Hank Vandenburgh says:

        As a senior (who has dated far younger women,) I find (or think anyway) that some of this is Misgerocy (hatred of seniors – which Haidt has documented in The Righteous Mind.) I’ve said before here that I think that many younger women do a memory revision when they realize that their past relationships with older men are socially proscribed. A very common relationship is for a male intellectual or artistic mentor to have a far younger erotic mentee. Yes, she’s going to leave him as part of her development– but…these relationships are going to go on to the end of time in our society. Let’s be accepting of them, rather than just play the norm cartoon.

        • But which seniors are being hated? Are Senior men hating Senior women which is why they date younger women or are Senior men being hated for purposely going for younger women?

          To me, it seems like we hate on older women more than we hate on older men. Hence why younger women WILL date older men but older men do not find as much value in their female counterparts as they do women who are younger than them.

          • Hank Vandenburgh says:

            An older woman is much more easy and fun in a relationship. And they’re frequently more attractive too. I do think there’s something to sibling rank order in terms of sexual preferences. I’m an oldest brother so I have an attraction to women my age or younger. I slept with one (1) woman older than I am, and the experience was hot, but, as I explained in another thread, I couldn’t make an energy connection with her. I don’t think we hate on older women at all, but I’ve never looked into this, so I don’t know. If you mean we’re not (as a society) as sexually attracted to them, I think you’re right, if we’re just going on surface. Haidt’s idea was that, in general, people disapproved of seniors (not sexually per se, but in a sort of moral, judgmental sense.) I do think that there’s a problem with excessive dating of younger women by older men (this is a patriarchal tendency – see Mormon polygamy.) This takes younger men out of the sexual loop, and socially isolates them– dangerous. It explains much about why the Middle East is wild (well probably because there are no jobs for younger men is more important.) But I’m not a Kantian so I don’t use the moral imperative, and I don’t see myself arguing for “policy.” So if the magic is there with a woman, maybe a man can be lovers with her– or perhaps others too.

            • I don’t get it Hank. You say older wome nare much more easy and fun in a relationshpi and they are frequiently more attractive too, yet you say you date women only younger or your own age. Can you see my confusion?

              You only slept with one older woman but I am sure you slept with countless younger ones even when you did or didn’t have the right energy for a relationship. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

              I do think there is a general hate for older women in our society. I think that older men like to believe they are better than women in general, whether older or younger.

              By the way, I don’t think we as a society are more attracted to older men sexually either. I just think there is a lot of media out there that really tries to push the idea that older men are just as sexy as younger ones because men do not want to largely loose their patriarchial power.

              Sometimes I admit i wish i was a man because then my sexuality would last much longer and I wouldn’t be hated on just because I got older. As a woman, I am going to be hated on for getting older. Even by men who are my own peers who wil lbelieve they are better than me just because they are men who have more privilage in the world as older men than older women are given. Men are lucky. Women are apparently just worthless unless they are young and hot enough of being worthy of a young or old man’s attention.

            • Hank Vandenburgh says:

              Erin, your sexuality and attractiveness are going to last as long as you want them to. You express yourself well and assertively, so I can only conclude that you’re attractive. I didn’t sleep with countless women. Being a young adult in the 60s and in my case thinking sexuality was spiritually pretty important, I did sleep with quite a few women, but, interestingly, I’d known the vast majority of them for years or months first. I hardly know anyone much older than me now. I’m 68. There’s a woman about 75 that I’d sleep with, I like her so much, but both of us are married. I’ve lived polyamorously much of my life, but not currently. I think we have it reversed in terms of attractiveness. We’re actually attracted to most of the people we meet, but we suppress it because of fear. I don’t think it’s anything like sexual commodification (in the best sense, what I’m talking about) it’s more like people all glow if you are in the right place psychologically. Do we have the energy, time, and caring to have intercourse, oral sex, or anything orgasmic with them all?– no! And deep sexuality is fraught because it makes us vulnerable to people we have it with. I don’t think that there are any whole people who think they’re better than you. There are people who take that stance, but, if they do, it’s a sign of their own injury. It’s ironic, not real. I guess I was trying to be funny with Haidt’s observation that people look down on seniors.

            • Hank Vandenburgh says:

              I guess I should also say that I’ve pretty much always been interested in having relationships as opposed to quick sex and leave.

      • Men and women can both be “sluts”. While the original definition of a slut was 1. an untidy or dirty woman 2. a kitchen maid, it has obviously since degraded into an insult lobbed at prostitues i.e. dirty which then came to mean a woman who sleeps with men/women she isn’t married to. But by that definition, a man who sleeps with women/men he’s not married to, can also be called a slut. But there’s already a good word that covers both men and women who do this: Fornicators. So technically, by definition, some women are sluts i.e. untidy or kitchen maids.

        ~The More You Know~

      • Well as naïve as you feel 17-till you think they matured, your reflecting yourself in this figure it seems .. I wonder how much effort you apply into shouting out against 18yr olds enlisting in the military? and rotc ie the military in schools molding them to help make this choice .. your so concerned about the relationship they choose, what about life long career decisions? Or the death that can result in a military choice . Unlike you the law and our Government has a different view then you about how old someone is to make an informed enough decision on their choice and holds them accountable for their decisions. I have been with a someone since they were 18 now they are 33 and I am 45 the most noticeable change is they do not want to go out as much . from my experience ..and can hold a better conversation because of learning about various topics not because they have matured she is a smart as always but like learning a new trade gained information to use with her mind, so I disagree with you .. you would allow them to make all sorts of other choices yet in a relationship one not ? or do you feel various other choices should be Taken away as well? are you also against military choices or any other life long choices? at least if they leave a relationship it does not result in a “bad mark” on their records, right?

  3. Notice how the author of this crappy article treats Deborah – who is a grown woman – like a child? Even though Deborah repeatedly gives her take on what happened the author completely dismisses her thoughts and opinions because they don’t agree with his world view. The author is a complete sexist because he discounts Deborah’s explanation of what happened. Even worse he pulls out the “psycho woman” card and says because her explanation of what happened with her piano teacher is not in agreement with his opinions he calls her crazy and says she needs therapy. Maybe this author would actually listened to women when they speak instead of calling them crazy when their take on things disagrees with him.

    • Hear hear! I thought that also. I also had an experience as a 14 year old male. I went after a 23 year old woman and seduced her. I planned it out and carried through with it. I knew what I was doing at the time and in hindsight, I wouldn’t change a thing. I lost my virginity to a woman who society and the law would call a rapist. She did not rape me in anyway, regardless of what the law or anyone else has to say. I did it on my terms and I’m glad I did. Do I need therapy Hugo?

      For me, it was kinda like That’s My Boy, only she wasn’t my teacher, just a hot older woman that I wanted to bang.

  4. Hank Vandenburgh says:

    This isn’t as bad as the comments and articles that scold men for sleeping with adult women when there’s a huge age difference, but it does demonstrate (without meaning to) that bodies don’t necessarily conform to laws and social norms.

  5. That’s unspeakable! I for one am glad you chose not to give her the sexually satisfying abuse she craved.

  6. Jeannette says:

    So…. Let me get this straight…
    Either you think that female rape victims who orgasm, and/or get wet are actually not rape victims… Or, you actually believe that women are weaker than men in women’s fields of expertise.
    Anything social, WE (females) rule in, and men are handicapped by comparison. That ESPECIALLY includes sex, and manipulation, upon which women traditionally depended for survival.
    But, you want to think that either men are more resistant against rape, or that only people who’s bodies give no sexual response when stimulated in a way that’s supposed to get such responses are rape victims.
    It gets better… For most human gene pools, we evolved for women to be pursued, and men to pursue. That means women are adjusted to being pursued, while men are not. That means that men are… Easy to rape.

    And, guess what. That’s reality. Men are easy. Who the Hell doesn’t know that?

    But, you want to think otherwise, just because you think that whether or not one becomes a rape victim is a matter of strength. Well, it’s not. Some weak, little, cute girl who kicks a man in the balls, and runs away when he tries to molest her did not succeed in getting away by being strong, did she? This is not about physical strength. Men are physically stronger than women. We get it. It’s a fact. Everyone knows. You have some serious self-esteem issues if you’re so eager to assert this. What? Are you not physically stronger? Do you have a history of girls beating you up? Or, are you just plain too stupid to grasp that this subject has NOTHING to do with physical strength, or lack thereof?
    The type of “strength” that determines whether or not one can be raped, or molested is one where… As I already explained, women are probably “stronger” than men.
    And, women? Well, women can also be easy to rape, and especially to seduce, in certain circumstances. (I’m sorry, what that woman did as a girl to that teacher was not seduction. It was between molestation, and rape. The only seduction was getting him to let her on his lap, which she did not let him know was for a sexual reason, so it was not true seduction.)

    Contrary to what dumbass feminists teach, we don’t control our sexual organs. If they give sexual response when someone stimulates them, it does not mean that we want to have sex with that person, find them attractive, love them, or anything else. It is simply how those organs work. And, while women are very mental sexually, so can be harder to get wet, or to make orgasm if she doesn’t want it, or doesn’t want him… Men don’t have that barrier. A man getting an erection, or ejaculating, because someone stimulated his penis, does not say ANYTHING about his preferences, thoughts, or feelings.
    And, in case of that woman, she specifically copied something from a sex book, upping potency, and likelihood of her succeeding. The only thing you can therefore call that man out on… Is that he was stupid enough to continue giving that girl lessons, and stupid enough to not realize she did it on purpose after her doing it multiple times.
    Let’s go out on a limb… And, actually try to think like in that situation… She did not tell him she was doing it on purpose, or knew what she was doing. She pretended to be innocent. And, he probably figured she was indeed innocent, just because her age alone. He also probably figured she didn’t know what he did, or understand it, so figured it was possible to continue the lessons without problems, and possible for her to not be in any way scarred for life by it. He probably told her not to do that again in a way that avoided WHY, in case she didn’t understand what had happened, so he would not get in trouble, and so no one could overhear (which would also get him in trouble). She then repeats. He says not to do it again, again. She repeats. So on, and so forth. There is no mention that they ever progressed to him intentionally having sexual relations, so they probably didn’t. So, the real issue here on his end… Is stupidity. At some point, he should have cut ties to that girl, or at least have stopped letting her sit on his lap. But, he didn’t.
    The only problematic, and fucked up person in that story is that woman, and her mother, the person from whom she learned it.
    And, it’s being made out like he was falling victim a long time… When you think about it, there is nothing in the story that indicates it lasting a year or more. Continuing until she moved away… For all we know, she could have moved away after just a week after the first incident. The woman was BRAGGING about it, so a bit of exaggeration, or intentionally making it sound like it COULD have been a long time, should not be surprising.

    That woman doesn’t need a psychiatrist… She needs what every male predator needs. Execution. EVERY rapist/molester aught to be executed, and that includes both women, and adolescents.
    People like that are not fixable. They have shitloads of victims. They start young, like that woman did, though not always as young as eleven.
    This woman did not even learn it from someone doing it to her first. It’s in her gene pool. Her mother had such books for a reason. Her mother let her get into such things for a reason. Her mother likely wasn’t any better growing up. She had these urges, and interests all by herself AT ELEVEN. That’s not something you can teach, that’s her genetics.
    I have known predators, of both sexes. They are genetically encoded to be that way, and are often not the only one in their family.
    It is an evolutionary path. A bad one. They screw whomever they can, including relatives, usually, to try and produce as much offspring as they can, as fast as they can, investing as little as possible per child. They especially like raping people they have high control over, such as relatives, pupils, or in that woman’s case… The piano teacher. And, they ESPECIALLY like to rape people WAY out of their league. They often marry someone on whom they can depend (even the men do it), and rape a LOT of people on the side of the spouse. The spouse? Also a rape victim, but a long-term one, who eventually got older than the young, naive age they probably were when the relationship began.
    Usually men prefer younger victims. But, women have no rule on age. Whoever is the best guy the female predator can get to try to make be the baby-daddy she will use for that, and whoever is the best guy she can get to be the provider is who she marries. The female predator, just like the male, has no love of the victims, and will trade them for better ones when there is opportunity. They also will stockpile as many victims if they can get away with, both male and female predators do.
    The longer that these people get away with it, the more success they have in spreading those genes. The only answer is execution.

    The way to know which one is the rapist… Is not to go by age, or sex. It’s to go by who pursued whom, who initiated, who controlled it. In that story, it was the eleven-year-old girl, not the piano teacher. Get over it.
    In this day and age, girls are raping grown men like mad. And, older women are, too. Men in their twenties are very unlikely to be single, to be sexually not involved with anyone, to have never married, to not have kids, to not have an STD, and to be a virgin. There are too many women pursuing them, and they are not evolved to be able to handle it. Further, in “western” societies, where this is such a huge problem, women outnumber men in the population. And, thanks to feminism, which really only benefits rapists, of both sexes, not everyday, good people of either sex, people who are not genetically meant to be predators are being taught to be. Feminism likes rape. That’s reality.
    Rapists should be executed. That’s reality. Which means feminism needs to die out.
    Women are good in the position of being pursued, while men are bad at it. That’s reality.
    Women who pursue ARE RAPISTS. That’s reality. The rest of us? It’s in us to wait until pursued. We have to be made to do otherwise, or we won’t. This is why there’s a long history of women who pursue men being stigmatized.
    Feminists don’t teach real history. They alter it to suit their agenda. Men, and women live in harmony if they stick with what nature tells them to do, with how they’re evolved to be. Feminism wants you to think that way of things upsets women. Well, it does upset female predators, and lesbians… But, the large majority of women likely were not unhappy about being women at all. Of course… We’re not supposed to think about how things really were historically, because feminists say so. And, we’re not supposed to think about the fact feminism is meant specifically to benefit lesbians, and predators/rapists (of both sexes), because feminists say so. We’re not supposed to think that a woman who has sex in a situation that is taboo for her wanted it, let alone made it happen, because feminists say so. We’re not supposed to think that a man could be a victim of a woman, because feminists say so. We should allow women the right to murder children they don’t want, and without the father’s consent… Because feminists say so. (Who has a history of doing that? Prostitutes. Prostitutes kept themselves in business by doing infanticide, and abortion. And, you know what… Feminists like to say that prostitution was the first profession, and first female profession, and GLORIFY it. Gee, I wonder why. But, we’re not supposed to talk about this.. Because feminists say so.)

    A male feminist… Is either a rapist/predator… Or, really, really stupid.

  7. You guys are all delusional. Females are the ones that decide which males they are going to have sex with period. You can pass laws and you can say it is deviant like you did with gays and that stopped homosexuality except it didn’t. Now your saying that girls having sex with older men are damaged and they need counseling and the men need to go to jail. But over thirty years ago when my brother married his now ex when she was sixteen and he was twenty six no one cared. Especially since it was her idea. Flash forward thirty years and he would go to jail today because she got him to get her pregnant so they could get married. Human’s have progressed a great deal in thirty years girls today are a lot more advance then they were thirty years ago because they are better fed and better educated. We also tell them that they are equal to men except of course when it comes to choosing sex partners then they are all victims. We spend time and money trying to stop the most unstoppable thing in the universe consensual sex instead going after the rapists, human traffickers and assorted abusers because it’s much easier to throw some teenager in jail for banging his barely underage girlfriend then going after organized crime and besides a lot of our financial institutions and politically organization make a lot of money off the slave trade. Why don’t you guys stop trying to demonize men and try accepting the idea that when it comes to consensual sex females are not victims. They are the aggressor and they always have been.

  8. Hi, how thoughtful to say such things I just would like to add what people fail to realize is the nature of and male and a female yes I do agree that he had a choice in the matter to stopping what happen but in reality u tell me what grown man could stop a young and beautiful growing girl from doing that ? Maybe in your dreams there is no shame in the desires that men have for women . Tell me how can a society create laws against men and there desire and on the same token create pornographic films movies and magazines exploiting the very bodies theywere suppose to be at least of what u call “saving their innocence”hthat’s very hypocritical if people understood the roles of which the very nature of human beings play there wouldn’t be debates about thus subject in reality I don’t care how religious u are how gay u are u will never be able to look in another man’syes and say you’ve NEVER desired to have sex be with or desire a younger woman this is just another topic that keeps people oppressed and confined to BS like this and
    Allah is the Best to know about His creation
    He knows best

  9. There is much grey area here. I am glad that someone finally brought this out in the open. Let me start by saying that the piano player definitely should of been able to resist the wiles of a eleven year old girl. However, despite her age, it sounds as if she was definitely the aggressor who tried to seduce and manipulate the piano player. She was the predator and he was the prey. Females often mature much earlier than males concerning the more complex areas of passion and sexuality. Men can often be very clumsy in this area. This is especially true of heterosexual males. This doesn’t mean that the piano player was a virgin. It just means that it is possible that he could of been immature in his emotional understanding of his sexuality and she may have been advanced for her age in this area. Therefore, she could have been the more mature one here who sought to get what she wanted at his expense by seducing and preying on his lack of depth in this area. Females in much different types of scenarios have been very often guilty of being the sexual predator in many situations. However, it most often goes unnoticed, because little is known about the nature in which female perpetrators commit their crimes.

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  1. [...] column at Good Men Project asks a simple question and gives an even simpler answer: Can Young Girls Really Seduce Older Men? [...]

  2. [...] another article he addresses the Lolita myth and the idea that men are helpless to resist the charms of a sexually [...]

  3. [...] From Hugo Schwyzer at The Good Men Project. As some of you would know, I am writing a book for Scribe publishers on social media and politics, policy and journalism. As part of the project I thought it worthwhile trying to come up with a list of all Australian political blogs. Such a thing is actually rather difficult to accomplish. The fleeting and fluid nature of the blogosphere means that many blogs come and go, some will will about politics but then drop it as a topic… [...]

  4. [...] 2011, Hugo Schwyzer wrote about this exact subject in an article called Can Young Girls Really Seduce Older Men? This article touches upon a taboo subject in our society—the fact that we idealize and [...]

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